Both "Mingus Dynasty" and "Ah Um" were from his brief contract period with Columbia, most likely why sidemen are the same. Of course Danny Richmond stayed with Mingus for years regardless of other changes.
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
31,647 responses Add your response
Inna, here's Flamenco with the exotic film clips; the music ain't bad either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK6H4mZK9Rw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oymEZzEXHvQ |
Traveling across the Sahara Desert in a caravan has always been one of my fantasies, going all the way back to my childhood, and sometimes I slip into them when I hear music involving camels and the desert. Take the lyrics to "Caravan" "Caravan" Night and stars above that shine so bright The myst'ry of their fading light That shines upon our caravan Sleep upon my shoulder as we creep Across the sand so I may keep The mem'ry of our caravan This is so exciting You are so inviting Resting in my arms As I thrill to the magic charms Of you beside me here beneath the blue My dream of love is coming true Within our desert caravan! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTjPAjq8OMY Can't you just picture yourself with this exotic creature in your arms while creeping across the desert in a caravan, (I don't know how that works, it's not exactly the same as a limo) Then there is Hugh Masekela who sings about actually going across the desert in a caravan; so this is what it's really like; he's actually done this before, what an adventure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YJCDQ2i5ME Can anybody chip in to help me on my journey across the desert? |
One of the most common criteria used by jazz players when commenting about each other's playing is whether the player is "saying something" and not simply captivating the listener with impressive musical cheapshots. For me, few have been able to "tell a story" with the clarity that Stanley Turrentine could. https://youtu.be/FNK6tvh1xUQ |
Schubert, while I agree with you about all of those artists, there is one who needs to be added, and that is the one commonly known as "Jug". On the jazz scene, it's not until after you have acquired your "moniker" that is well known on the street, that you have arrived. As a matter of fact, I'm not going to tell his name, because if you don't know jazz artists by their "street names" you're not an aficionado. |
o10, I went back to listed to the track I posted and it sounded reasonably clean and about as good as other YouTube links I've listened to. So no idea why what you heard was so poor. Did you try any of the other links listed along the right of the screen? I have a fairly good audio system and a large collection of LPs and CDs. So that is the source of all my serious listening. Recording quality is important to me in so far as not wanting it to detract from the music. The only time I bother with YouTube on my computer is to hear suggested links such as those posted here. |
Here are two of Gene Ammons very well known hits; "Canadian Sunset" and "Jungle Strut" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vl4_f8Emtw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ3ERhE0KWo |
Since I can't get any help, I'll just have to boogy my caravan across the desert all by myself; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9LWw7-VMm0 |
"Jug" would, of course, be Gene Ammons. Distinctive player out of the "Texas tenor" tradition. Very assertive style and HUGE sound. The issue if jazz nicknames is a fascinating one. O-10, there is some truth in what you say and thanks for bringing up the topic which is one of the most fun details of this music. However, I think that as written your comment exaggerates the connection to "arriving" on the jazz scene. What about all the great players who do NOT have a moniker? Does that mean that they have not arrived? There have been many. The danger in generalities I think. In fact, an interesting extension on this is that how a musician is addressed by colleagues sometimes comes around full circle. In other words, sometimes the ultimate sign of respect becomes NOT the use of the always used moniker when addressing the esteemed player, but the use of the formal first name. Example, in "musician speak", a player might have, for instance, referred to "Duke" as Edward (his real name) as the ultimate sign of respect. A subtle and very inside thing. Interesting comments on the topic: http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2015/04/jazz-musicians-nicknames/ |
Some great jazz artists are so well known that instead of their given names, their albums are titled by their street names, such as "Bean Bags". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_Bags |
Coleman Hawkins ("Bean"); fantastic player. His 1939 solo on "Body And Soul" is considered pivotal in jazz and one which took improvisation in an entirely new direction away from the comfortable linear style of the swing era to a more modern angular style that just about every modern player would be influenced by. Btw, the album title "Beanbags" is a combination of Hawkins' moniker "Bean" with that of co-leader Milt Jackson's "Bags". https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zUFg6HvljDE |
Here are a couple more tunes by Ammons that I like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If77_P8v7iE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AFyS7sZvN0 |
I am sorry to say that I fully agree with Schubert, and more. But I wouldn't have put it quite straightforwardly as he did. This doesn't mean that I wouldn't have wanted to. Orpheus10, our taste is sometimes similar or at least not dissimilar, but at other times I completely fail to understand you. Schubert listens to classical music, I don't, and yet.. I know when classical musician plays as it should be played. And I truly miss Paganini, I guess. |
Evidently, this is provoke Orpheus night; because the only comments that have come in recently are in that direction. Inna, I asked you a question so long ago that I forgot what the question was, now you come in siding with Schubert about Gene Ammons, when this is the first time I ever heard you comment on Gene Ammons, I'm not sure you know who he is. You understand Schubert, who listens to classical music and comes down hard on one of the most outstanding jazz musicians, on a jazz thread. I don't think you or Schubert understand each other. |
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I wouldn't want to listen to anybody all day, but the question is, "What elicited that statement." Gene Ammons ranks with the top musicians of all time, and I believe this website establishes his credentials; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Amm Inna and Schubert, have either one of you heard of Vanessa Mae? I posted her way back in relation to caravans; she is "Classical" and neither one of you commented, what gives; must be "donnybrook" night. |
Alright, let's just stop that. This is very far from jazz, any definition of it. And it is a dance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXumObPQ90w |
Rest assured Dave, I am fully aware of my own many faults and foibles. And others reactions to them . If you bothered to read what I said, that Ammons has a ton of talent but is not someone I would want to listen to all day , no reasonable person would consider that a put down hard or otherwise . Or come to the conclusion,from those few words., that I am oblivious to anything . My conclusion on O-10 is the result of a thousand comments of that nature.and worse, by O-10. Often to people whose only goal is to help him . I never make a comment to anyone to hurt them but in the hope they will come to their senses , unlikely as that may be . I always pay attention and always have done so . |
Being very familiar (unfortunately) with this kind of recent silly and pointless arguing I would like to, "for what it’s worth" (a comment that I will return to), offer some thoughts. While I realize some may question why I make an issue of this and jump into the fray, all I can say is that I honestly believe that if we could avoid that kind of silliness and instead try and understand what the other poster is saying or why he has a particular reaction to an artist we would all be better music listeners. Instead, posters argue and get indignant, throw around "opinions" with little basis in reality, puff their chests and eventually things calm down only to have the exact same thing happen again. This thread is about music and with all the expressed feelings about the claimed sacrosanct "subjectivity" of music it seems to me that there should be some respect shown for why someone may or may not like an artist. Respect, in as much as remaining open to understanding the dissenting opinion. The catch, of course, is there has to be a willingness to, at least, try and explain that opinion; either in musical terms or in terms of personal emotional reaction. In other words, knowledge of the technical aspects of music is not absolutely necessary for this. The cynic and strict subjectivist may believe that knowledge is actually a disadvantage; nonsense, of course. I happen to like Gene Ammons. I also can understand why some don’t like his style. A player with a tremendous amount of exuberance, huge robust sound, unique tone and hard swinging. He was actually a "gateway" player to the r&b tenor saxophone sound that was heard come out of every jukebox during the early rock and roll period. On the other hand his playing was rough around the edges, lacked refinement and he could not hold a candle to some one like Sonny Stitt in terms of command of harmony when playing harmonically complicated tunes; and his ballad playing lacked tenderness, imo. So, isn’t easy to see how someone might really like him and someone else might not? Not meaning to "take sides", but for what it’s worth and as I see it: Schubert made a comment with the important qualifier "for what it’s worth" and expressed that he could listen to three particular artists all day. O-10, then states that Schubert’s list is incomplete and should include Ammons. So, now we have four artists that are worthy of being listened to all day.....I see. Schubert responds, acknowledges that Ammons had a lot of talent, but just doesn’t like him (much?). Oh no, we can’t have that! "I love Ammons, he is a giant, you are wrong in not liking him and, moreover, I couldn’t care less that you don’t like him.....so there!!!!" Aargh! Imo, THAT is when things took the unfortunate wrong turn and the silliness began. Personally, I saw nothing wrong with Schubert’s response. We all purport to love music so much, but it seems to me are not always willing to pay it the respect that it deserves. It is an amazing art form and is serious business. Instead, it becomes a personal playground for patting ourselves on the back for how much we think we know or appreciate about it while only scratching the surface of its amazing depth and complexity. All this without enough sense of inquisitiveness, awe and humility about it all; it becomes about personal ego. Not digging deep enough, imo. Not meaning to offend and, if it does, apologies to anyone concerned; but, I simply can’t let a couple of the "highlights" go by without some kind of response so as to make my above points. All, of course, imo: **** I don’t listen to Classical music and yet.. I know when classical musician plays as it should be played. **** Aaah, sure..... **** Vaness Mae....she is Classical **** Huh?! Regards to all and here’s 🍷 to having thicker skins and digging a little deeper. |
I actually like Gene Ammons myself , esp. when he dips into r&b much of what I consider folk music . Just not all day. Telling a story is the heart and soul of jazz and as any great storyteller will tell you , the only story you really have is your own . The audience is moved by emotion and a player that has to think of what he is doing technically may tell a story but it won’t be his own. One of the biggest"A-ha" moments in my life took place at a Bob Hope Show in Vietnam . As a Platoon Sgt. I was one of the few allowed to carry a weapon so I had to attend and keep the boys in line . The usual parade of lame jokes and half-naked Hollywood starlets etc grinding it out etc went on for about 90 minutes to semi-obscene calls, grunts and clapping from the 5.000 troops in the audience . Last act was a B-List Standards singer named Jack Jones, an established singer, but I’m sure not 50 people there had ever heard of him or the standards he sang . He came out on stage and simply said, Hi, Fellas, I’m Jack Jones and I’d like to sing a few songs for you . He sang 3 standards , I don’t remember which, and as he walked off the stage 5, 000 troops sprang to their feet and as one gave him a TREMENDOUS roar , 3 times that any starlet got and it continued for a good 5 minutes ! This was well into the war and most of those troops were dredged out of the ghetto’s, rural south , Puerto Rico etc ,were poorly educated and drug use(hash)was epidemic . Yet these lowest of the low knew what all humans instinctually know, there is no substitute for authenticity . Goes double in music as that is also instinctual . |
o10, if anyone responded to Caravan with this I apologize, I don't take the time to read everything here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDbgLJt50ss Regarding nicknames, I've always been amused but the "royalty" titles -- King, Duke, Pres, Count, etc. |
Pryso, some people have the ability to have a pleasant positive conversation, while others don't; some people don't even know the subject of the conversation. I want you to know that it has been a pleasure discussing various aspects of the jazz greats, and some of their idiosyncrasies as well; I find you extremely knowledgeable about our favorite artists. Awhile back, I posted links to "Caravan" with what I thought was a humorous twist about actually going on a caravan. After that I changed the subject to "nicknames" or monikers; Bingo!, you got it right both times, and responded intelligently. Since it's a waste of time to go back over what has transpired, I wont. No Pryso, no one else even responded to any one of the three links I put up on "Caravan". That link you put up is one of the best "hard-bop" examples of the tune. This is the line-up on that link. Art Blakey - drums Freddie Hubbard - trumpet Curtis Fuller - trombone Wayne Shorter - tenor saxophone Cedar Walton - piano Reggie Workman - bass Those royalty titles are humorous when you think about them; King, Queen, Duke, Duchess.... |
Following in jafant's footstep and to respond to the "Caravan" posts: Ella: Sublime. It just doesn't get better than that; different yes, but not better. Arguably the best female jazz singer ever and shows why she was called, and speaking of "royalty" titles, "Queen Of Jazz". Amazing musician in every sense of the word. Pitch like few other singers, swung like hell and one of maybe a half dozen singers of either gender that doesn't make me want to turn the music off after more than just a few seconds of scatting. From the very first note of the clip it is obvious that it is Duke's (Edward's 😎) band. The sound of the saxophone section is, in many ways, led from the bottom up by the great Harry Carney's big and rich baritone sound. Fantastic clip. Hugh Masekela: Hard to listen to this after Ella. Kind of like going from the sublime to the ridiculous. Imo, one of the most overrated musicians in all of "jazz". I put jazz in quotes because a lot of what he played was not jazz at all. A lot of it was pleasant enough with its "African" flavor, but I just don't feel that a lot of his music is on a high level of skill or artistry. And his singing is worse than the already mediocre flugelhorn playing that he is known for. Not my cup of tea. Vanessa Mae: Not my cup of tea either. Pleasant enough, but for me it's musical fluff that gets on and capitalizes fom the "World Music" bandwagon. Music that relies heavily on production values geared toward unabashed accessibility and does not shy away from also capitalizing on the soloist's good looks as part of the "package". Art Blakey: Classic. Fabulous band playing Freddie Hubbard's fabulous arrangement of the tune. Great and tasty use of dissonance in the horn writing to make three horns sound like a larger group. Freddie's soloing is on fire as usual. Blakey sounds great and is in his prime. His playing got looser and more relaxed as he aged and wasn't always as incisive as on earlier records like this one. Great stuff! A couple of other favorite versions of the tune; coincidentally all piano trio versions: The tune fits his rhythmic quirkiness perfectly; probably my favorite version: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLOlMnNVkwA An even more modern approach: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SSOdZJSIP3Q Nothing like the composer (actually, co-composer with Juan Tizol, trombonist in Duke's band) himself playing the tune; great record! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yNoLbP5s-68 |
Would like to add two more different versions, both on albums from the same guitar player. Kenny Burrell, Caravan, from 'Blue Lights' https://youtu.be/iRXdh_SFh6Q and Caravan from 'Elington is forever'.... https://youtu.be/VBj0tvV64V0 |
Alex, here lately, every time you post it adds to the albums I don't have, but must have; the sidemen alone tell the story, Junior Cook, Tina Brooks, and Bobby Timmons are artists I never tire of, and don't have enough of. Each solo on this Kenny Burrell album is a revelation. It's amazing how many different ways "Caravan" has been worked, from the quirky "Monk", to the straight ahead "Ella". |
This is not an attempt to change the direction, I just felt like honoring "Sgt Pepper". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ooeMXnPuIg |
Great clips, Alex. Thanks. Since our OP doesn't want to change direction: What makes any kind of "fusion" music special is ultimately a kind of limitation as well. The tune "Caravan" is really a Latin tune more than anything. Co-penned by a Latin trombonist that idea should not be surprising. The co-composer was a jazz giant so when the two personalities combined you got Latin-Jazz fusion. We usually hear the tune performed by jazz artists and, as we know, we have some pretty fantastic versions of the tune. While clearly influenced by the Latin, because they are jazz players, the feel of the music will still be mostly grounded in the feel of jazz. It is interesting to hear how a group (especially the rhythm section) of Latin musicians play the tune and how they bring a completely different feel to it. My point about how all this could be a limitation of sorts is that, ultimately, neither the jazz element nor the Latin element get expressed as completely. I think this version gets closest to home in many ways: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPex4QuaQwU |
o10, thanks for the kind words. It can be frustrating to read responses from folks who only seem to want to be argumentative, or at the least didn't bother to carefully read something posted before jumping in with inappropriate comments. frogman, thanks for that link. I have that Monk Ellington album among my collection of his recordings but have not played it in years. Now I need to dig it out so I can "dig it" again. ;^) In general I do differentiate between a title or general reference, typically by the media, such as "King of Swing" or "Queen of the blues" and a moniker or nickname assumed by a musician to the point they use it to refer to themselves. And while I'm not a sociologist or expert in this area, I always assumed that many black musicians appropriated "royalty" first names as a way to both demand respect for their talents and to honor the tradition started back in the very early 1900s, possibly by "King" Oliver. |
Thanks all for the threads and links to "Caravan" It was written one year after I was born and for years after hardly a day went by when I didn't hear it on the radio and be enchanted by it ! I'll wager 90% of the American public was familiar with "Caravan" by the start of WW 11 as it was in every big bands rep . I'd also guess that not 1% are today. Progress ? There is a very smoky jazz club type of it on You Tube by Cassandra Wilson with a quintet . The great percussionist Lelank Babaalula alone is worth watching it for . She's not Ella but a good horse for that course . |
Pryso, again you hit the nail dead on the head; "Lady Day" for example in reference to Billie Holiday. As you know, the daughters of dukes, marquesses and earls are by courtesy "ladies"; as well as the woman they marry; hence, "Lady Day" has to be a lady of aristocratic bearing. Schubert, here's Casandra Wilson "Caravan" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfW7l5mjpZk |
o10, more about "actually going on a caravan". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5u3VVX-6Mo&list=PLC53r5P0vCHKn3dzVT8bRH3eOcPWJi7z0 But consider the whole album. Is that close enough to jazz? ;^) |
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Pryso, I began with the lyrics that Ella sang to "Caravan" . Night and stars above that shine so bright The myst'ry of their fading light That shines upon our caravan Sleep upon my shoulder as we creep Across the sand so I may keep The mem'ry of our caravan This is so exciting You are so inviting Resting in my arms As I thrill to the magic charms Of you beside me here beneath the blue My dream of love is coming true Within our desert caravan! And took that to my longtime fantasy of actually going on a caravan across the desert, which would be in perfect harmony with Ella's lyrics, to include beautiful exotic babe. Hugh Masekela sings about his memory of joining a caravan in a tiny town in the desert and blazing across the Sahara. That came as close as anything I could picture. In the comments section, Ealorise Holmes says it grabbed at her, and it was most certainly in line with my fantasy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YJCDQ2i5ME It doesn't matter whether or not it's close to jazz, as long as the music puts the caravan fantasy of moving across the Sahara in motion. |
One more: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Vw5r7-vgs One from the 1%. From the great Bob Mintzer, tenor/arrangement, by way of Stuttgard: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=APWUZDfuKwM |
Pryso, maybe my caravan fantasy has come to the end of it's line; I couldn't find any music to move it along, but hopefully you did. Lew Tabackin, "Desert Lady" is quite interesting, possibly in the mold of the Sahara Desert. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLRNMnAPnTI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTp9mjI04kM |
WOW, nothing like a big band ! For those who might not know SWR stands for South West Radio in German , English too come to think of it .One thing that puzzles me about Jazz recordings is they seldom list the arranger, who often is the major element in the recording . Frogman , I’d be surprised if Kenny D had not played a bit of Bach in his time, what a great player ! I’m going to hit Amazon for him . |
I agree about arranger credits; common and unfortunate oversight (?). Case in point: the Blakey clip that pryso recently posted features a fantastic arrangement by Freddie Hubbard. I don’t think that this is credited on the LP at all. Another example: perhaps a result, in part, of a bygone era when the orchestra leader was often also the de facto arranger, but was credited on the album cover as simply and for example: "Frank Sinatra With Billy May And His Orchestra". As you say the arranger is a major element in the recording; sometimes the major element. Very astute comment re Kenny Drew Jr. Son of the Kenny Drew he began as a Classical pianist and has indeed performed quite a bit of Bach. Not exactly definitive but as you point out he certainly understands Bach: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=28JU935pF7E |
o10, before you give up on your caravan fantasies, since your open to other than jazz - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bjzuSO27fA And this one is for travels for the mind, if not the body - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acHvsBEUaH4 schubert and frogman, on the subject of little credited arrangers, I consider what Hall Overton did for Monk's big band remained true to the spirit of the compositions while adding unusual instrumentation to numbers which greatly expanded what was normally heard only in quartet or solo performance. Great stuff, but then I'm a major Monk fan - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi1159vzI8A |