Jazz for aficionados

Sorry for the double post above. But, Rok2id, YES! a group like the Last Poets might have done what I heard but as best I can tell what I'm looking for was not by them. Please advise if otherwise Thank again.

Orpheus & Rok2id - hopefully not completely hijacking this thread but possibly taking it on a little off road excursion that iwill get it back to your intended course in short order....

The recent exchange about "rap" reminded me of something I heard on WXPN (adult alternative public radio out of Phila.) several years ago. It was, I think, a "pre-rap" song the gist of the lyric being that Jesus was a black man...went into some detail on His lineage justifying this take on Him. VERY powerful and literate. I'd love to listen to it again but have not been able to find it. My sense of the period it was from is probably late '60s maybe '70s. I have searched old radical black groups,black poets from the era to no avail. Hoping this might trigger a memory with you. Thanks in advance.

Orpheus & Rok2id - hopefully not completely hijacking this thread but possibly taking it on a little off road excursion that will get it back to your intended course in short order....

The recent exchange about "rap" reminded me of something I heard on WXPN (adult alternative public radio out of Phila.) several years ago. It was, I think, a "pre-rap" song the gist of the lyric being that Jesus was a black man...went into some detail on His lineage justifying this take on Him. VERY powerful and literate. I'd love to listen to it again but have not been able to find it. My sense of the period it was from is probably late '60s maybe '70s. I have searched old radical black groups & black poets from the era to no avail. Hoping this might trigger a memory with you. Thanks in advance.

Rok-not to worry. Thanks for the reply. We'll get it figured out. Hoping maybe Orpheus has an idea. Crazy times indeed. Creativity busting out all over. In the intervening years...money & lawyers have f'd up a lot of things

Hang around this thread long enough, even a white boy like me could get educated. Yeah... I know. Not PC. Too bad. Heard a Euphonium for the first time live only recently. In church. Beautiful sounding instrument. The kid playing had great tone. Got to check out Roland Kirk. Heard the name don't know his music.

Because of this discussion I will listen to Stravinsky's "Symphony of Psalms" later today. To my ear, there is beauty there. Is it the beauty of Debussy or Ravel? No. For me, it is something more austere, transcendent and moving.

If I might intrude (thread watcher but not a jazz aficionado) - what are opinions about Soft Machine (e.g., '5')? This is a hugely long thread so apologies if they've already been discussed. Very curious what the usual suspects posting here think!

Rok - Thanks for your reply and especially for giving Soft Machine a listen. I'm definitely interested in your opinion and that of Orpheus and Frogman. Beyond the heavily improvisational nature of their music I don't know if what they play is jazz either. But then, I probably can't tell you what jazz is to begin with. At any rate, if you do Spotify and are interested, you can find a lot more of Soft Machine there. I owned '5' long ago. Was glad to rediscover it the other night. it's a bit of a stretch for me but not totally out of reach. It holds my interest.

By the way, if the time machine has moved into the '80s, and guitarists like Metheny and Scofield are going to get mentioned - don't forget Ralph Towner (although start with him in the 70s). Check out Solstice with Garbarek, Weber & Christensen or Dis w/Garbarek. Don't know if this stuff is jazz either (although I'm not trying to pollute the thread!).

Ciao

Hello Mapman - Yes, I'm recently aware of Soft Machine's Canterbury/psychedelic connection, though by the time of 5, I don't think there's much left of that sound. Did not know their influence on Prog Rock or your Caravan. Interesting you should mention Miles and Bitches Brew. I was thinking about Miles while listening to Soft Machine last night. There's definitely a connection (at least in my mind). A similar sort of (free-form?) loose improvisational structure maybe. But not so out there and cacophonous as something I once heard by Pharaoh Sanders (and hope to never again). I'll have to pull out In A Silent Way and compare that as well.

Rok - Thanks for the Mary Lou Williams link.

Sorry. Should have warned you, keegiam. That’s why they call me, "thread killer". Radio silence after I responded to your Ralph Towner post.

pjw - Thanks for your further efforts on my behalf. I was somewhat familiar with Corea’s "Now He Sings, Now He Sobs". Will have to re-visit it based on your suggestion. Trio-wise, I’ve spent time with his first "Trilogy" recording (Christian McBride and Brian Blade). This is impressive music-wise (though, for me, not all of it is equally "gripping") and sound-quality-wise, especially given it is made up of live recordings.

The preference for quartet or even quintet format is based on the greater variety of "voices" available for solos. Regarding, "style" or (more correctly, genre) I enjoy post-bop much more than the traditional jazz standards.

Thanks again.

Does Keith Jarrett get talked about much here?

Hi Frogman...I have the reissue with the extra tracks you mention. One nice thing about CD is being able to play Quartets 2 & 3 in the proper order. I’m hoping my attempted description might generate some ideas about music with a similar "vibe".

BTW - I thought enough of this music to also buy it in vinyl.

Asking a favor of you jazz gurus....

I have been enjoying Chick Corea’s Three Quartets since Frogman mentioned it some time ago. I’d appreciate recommendations of similar compositions/recordings. I’ve not found The All Music Guide’s suggestions of similar albums too helpful. It’s a challenge to convey what about Three Quartets is so appealing. The best I can do:
- It has a certain "gravitas" and despite lots of room for improvisation seems highly structured with a quasi-classical feel;
- The compositions are somewhat abstract (nothing you’ll be whistling in the shower) yet accessible;
- There is ample complexity that rewards repeated listening;
- Musicianship and sound quality are superb.
- Corea's Time Warp is enjoyable for what seem to be similar traits. 

Hoping these give some clue as to what I’d like to find.
(Listening right now to Thelonius Monk Quartet w/JohnColtrane at Carnegie Hall...it has moments that get close.)

Thanks in advance for any thought you put into this.

@pjw81563
Thanks for your suggestion.  I have Eastern Rebellion playing now.  While I like the quartet format, the style of music performed is the more critical consideration.  Never the less, thank you for pointing me to Cedar Walton.  New to me (of course).  

pjw81563

I've had more time to listen to Cedar Walton's Eastern Rebellion.  I'm very impressed.  Virtuoso playing.  George Coleman's work on Naima is incredible.  I'd like to see a transcript of his solo(s) on that...probably look like a blur of black across the ledger lines.  ("Yes", I realize it's a Coltrane composition.)  Also like very much Coleman's composition "5/4 Thing".  That's a good example of the kind of music I'd like to find more of.  

Thanks again.

Merry Christmas to you Rok.  

BTW - I was thinking about you, Orpheus and the other regulars that post to this thread.  Wanted to recommend to all that haven't heard it yet, Allen Toussaint's "The Bright Mississippi".  It is a really wonderful recording.  Called jazz by some (though to my ear, not in the same way as something by Miles or Coltrane...the songs date from an earlier time). At any rate, it's a 2009 release and, as usual, I'm late to the party having just discovered it.  So if this is old news, apologies for that...nevertheless might be a good reminder and something worth dusting off to listen to again.  Happy New Year to you all.   

Glad you enjoy it too, Rok.  I actually did search on Bright Mississippi and saw a number of old posts about it but didn't quickly find any that were specific to Jazz Aficionados.  Would have been surprising had it not been discussed (and gotten some love) in this thread.  

I'm a lot more a blues/rock "aficionado" than jazz so what surprises me about this recording is how much it holds my interest.  It isn't music I'd have predicted liking, but it absolutely swings.

"...music of New Orleans. Without which, there would be no Jazz."  - very true.  
  

Pardon the non-commercial interruption...
Just wanted to reply to Orpheus' previous posts and pay a compliment to Leon Thomas.  At the risk of trivializing his talent, I want to say, "what a nice voice".  When he's singing a lyric...no posturing just a certain naturalness and purity about it - at least in the limited listening I've done so far as a result of Jafant's Pharaoh Sanders recommendations.  

If you will further indulge me in an unsolicited 2 cents on the more recent jazz bassist topic...check out Tony Levin (yes I know, not a jazz-only bassist) playing with Andy Summers.  They do a great version of Afro Blue.  It's on "The Last Dance of Mr. X.  There was a YouTube video of them playing it live...can't find it now, however.  

For Rok on in-performance interactions between musicians.  On the off-chance he's not already seen it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuCbQCnoIzI

Ciao

YAW, Jafant - as ever, a pleasure to talk about the music.  

Hey Rok - when you get a chance, check this out.  Curious what you think of it (hoping it is new to you but pro'ly. not).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuCbQCnoIzI 

Ciao.

Thanks for the Caterina Valente, Orpheus.  Not my usual listening but those certainly open a window back to another time, "In the days before rock 'n; roll" to quote Van.  How did things get so f'd up?  Love the somewhat busy string arrangement on The Breeze and I.  More and more these days, those arrangers are my heroes.  Kind of working off camera, if you will.  

Just another comment on Leon...he's someone who serves the music.  Not the other way around as is too much the case nowadays where so often music is just a convenient vehicle for self-promotion.  

Talk about killer arrangements.  Please give a listen to the following.  The LP is good but let's cut to the chase...the main point can be heard by dropping your needle right down at 20:30.  For me this is absolutely one of the best songs EVER.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayW8uK1JwTE
Kinda sad to me that Curtis got a lot more credit for a song that William wrote and recorded first! Hope you will enjoy it.

Jafant - listening right now to Hartman with Coltrane.  My amateur opinion is that Johnny's vocal style is a bit more studied than Leon's.  I hear Sinatra (or maybe even a bit of Dean Martin) in Johnny's "tone" (not talking influences, just similarities),  Leon's style is more "naive" and his tone quite different to my ear.  I think Donny's voice is slightly higher pitched than Leon when comparing the two signing a straight lyric (it changes when Leon does that yodeling!).  This might raise some eyebrows but when I listen to Leon getting into the mid and lower half of his range, I hear shades of Barry White.  Barry's generally a whole lot deeper but the two have a similar kind of rich tone.  Upper half, I'm thinking Nat King Cole. (Hope no one decides to throw stones now!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSYwGEiowHg

Rok - 
I think he's sort of conducting...counting off so they all hit the (time signature?) change together.  Clarinets come in for a little break and then the trombone guy solos.  

Loved how everybody was really watching the drummer on his solo last part of Poco Loco.  What a great show.  Just want to say again, I really enjoyed that whole thing.  Held my interest all the way through.  THANKS.

Orpheus - apologies but you will have to connect the dots for me on the why for the Grant Green bio.  Don't misinterpret my comments as being down on musicians getting paid and making money.  It's more a case of their priorities...doing what they love first and eventually getting paid or producing a contrived product calculated to "sell".  That's the best I can explain what makes m crazy about "the industry".  When you are inclined, let me know why you brought up Mr. Green.  Thanks.

Orpheus - OK.  I getcha.  No argument from me on the "artist" not always getting their fair share "back in the day".  Plenty of examples even outside jazz where unscrupulous agents and managers ripped off their clients.  Sad story about Grant Green.  Was reading about Jaco Pastorius the other day.  Another tragedy.  The business model does seem to have changed for the better in many ways.  

Rok - thanks so much for that Wynton Marsalis.  The sound is EXCELLENT on it.  For one reason and another a bit of a downer kind of day but it is putting a smile on my face.  REALLY liked the opening Horace Silver piece.  Wynton's solo on Inner Urge was fantastic.  The whole thing has my toes tapping.  Thanks again.  I feel like I know sh** about jazz; so much of this is new and great fun.  Thanks again.

re the Mingus performance/film...I would have loved to just hang with those guys.  Pack up their gear or whatever; watch rehearsals (now that would really be something).  

Later.  Ciao.

Hey Frogman - Thanks for your insights into preparations for that Mingus sextet performance.  

"...that solo by Dolphy is deliciously strange."  :-)  Well said.  I'm no Dolphy-ologist but the little I know, that seems to be the story on him.  Zappa certainly appreciated him.  (Yet another who died too soon).

http://www.allmusic.com/song/eric-dolphy-memorial-barbecue-mt0010976240

Lost childhood, lost friends and regrets - certainly not unique to you alone, O. Thanks for sharing those memories.

I hope the words in this song are true...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdtAfUtOEWA

I don’t believe it’s all for nothing
It’s not just written in the sand
Sometimes I thought you felt too much
And you crossed into the shadow land

And the river was overflowing
And the sky was fiery red
You gotta play the hand that’s dealt ya
That’s what the old man always said

Fallen angel
Casts a shadow up against the sun
If my eyes could see
The spirit of the chosen one

In my dream the pipes were playing
In my dream I lost a friend
Come down Gabriel and blow your horn
’Cause some day we will meet again

Orpheus - I suspect we aren't that different, age-wise.  Childhood: what a mixed bag...dreams and nightmares but definitely, some magical moments.

Hope you will allow me, a jazz dilettante (and not an aficionado!) to jump in with a question on Lee Morgan.  Years ago (70s/80s)I recall enjoying an LP of his, "Live At The Lighthouse".  Confusing me now is that when I look at cover photos for this record, most seem to show him sitting (in sand under a boardwalk?).  My recollection of that LP was a black and white photo of him on an all black cover.  Might have been playing into a microphone...not sure.  Anyone know what I might be talking about?  Do I picture correctly The Lighthouse LP? or is there something else by him that looked the way I remember?? THANKS in advance for any attention you might care to give this bit of trivia/nostalgia.  I'm looking on line and yet to see the album that I seem to recall.

Thanks, Rok. Thanks Frogman.

What I remember is closer to the photo Frogman found (used on Disc 3 of the box set, I guess) though I don’t recall the funky Hawaiian shirt he’s wearing. I looked at the release versions listed in AllMusic (and on Discogs) but did not see a vinyl version that matched that photo. Maybe my memory of the album cover is faulty.  I am certain it was Live at the Lighthouse and something I had on vinyl.

Rok interesting to note there were 2 different Lee Morgan albums called, "Live at the Lighthouse" but one has ’70 in the title. The one with ’70 in the title is kind of bogus. It was NOT actually recorded at the Lighthouse but rather at another SanFran club ("Both/And" according to a reviewer on Amazon) some weeks before the Lighthouse dates. That is the $20 CD on A’zon but it is NOT the one to get, apparently. Sound quality is reportedly bad. 3CD box set from the Lighthouse dates is the one to get...used for around $60. (I see that $587 version...maybe it’s a typo!...misplaced decimal).

FWIW - Spotify has the 3 CD box set version. They also have "Search for the New Land" Orpheus mentioned. Gonna be checking that later.  The "more abstract" comment he made is intriguing.  

Thanks to you both for looking.

Hello again Orpheus (regards to Frogman and Rok)...

I listened to Lee’s "Search for The New Land". I was glad to see this concept of "abstract" getting a little discussion before I responded to you here. I do think we have different things in mind when using or hearing the word, "abstract". For me Search was immediately accessible...not a painful or tedious exercise at all. More structured, melodic and rewarding than I expected.

I might be mixing things together inappropriately (probably am). When I hear abstract I expect a less/loosely structured composition possibly with elements of dissonance, and "free jazz"; sometimes a "difficult" listen.  
I admittedly lack the music theory training to better describe what "abstract" means to me, so I’ll give a few examples of things that I consider abstract. (A number of things on the ECM label, as it turns out). Look forward to comments from yourself and others if this topic (how to define abstract as applied to jazz) seems worth pursuing. Maybe you won’t even think some of what I’ve listed qualifies (A) As Jazz and (B) As abstract!  That’s OK too...I’m interested in other points of view.

In A Silent Way
Love Supreme
Out to Lunch
Rheomusi (Fabiano Araujo et al)
Dis (Jan Garbarek & Ralph Towner)
Magico (Garbarek w/Haden & Gismonti)
Sol Do Meio Dea (Gismonti)

I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong applying "abstract" to Search - please don’t misunderstand - but given my expectations for the word, Search for a New Land didn’t seem all that abstract to me.

BTW - quite the stellar group of musicians on that record. I really liked Wayne Shorter’s solo right before and through the 4 minute mark on Pirate Morgan.

Gotcha Orpheus.  Good point about the contrast between Sidewinder and Search.  Have to remember to also view these things in the context of the times in which they were released.

I'll give a listen to the music on the link you provided.  Also, found "Evolution" on Spotify and will listen more to that later.  Interesting that on track 1/Air Raid I swear I heard a melody or progression that sounded like something from a Steely Dan or maybe a Donald Fagen solo recording.  Will listen again.  Would not surprise me at all if that pair borrowed something.

Do you consider Dolphy's "Out to Lunch" abstract?  

"If Eric Dolphy's "Out To Lunch" ain't abstract, grits ain't grocery, eggs ain't poultry, and Mona Lisa was a man."

O - Okay!  So Out to Lunch is a good example of "abstract" to both of us.

"Some of my favorite musicians are crazy about 'Eric Dolphy'; it must have been his personality. If I owned this record, I would leave it at a friends house, and give him a ring when I wanted to hear it."

That's pretty funny.  And I appreciate your candor.  
I want to like Dolphy because people I think know more than I do say there's something there.  BUT he's a real tough listen for me.  Something I have to work at.  Eventually (maybe) with enough listening what he's doing will start to sink in - but not without work.  The opposite of  accessible!  And time being short, got to ask...is it worth the effort?That's rhetorical.

My bro-in-law is a gifted musician.  Runs a "boutique" studio blah blah blah.  Bottom line...I respect his o-pinion.  Long time ago he had this Brecker Bros. album.  Don't recall the name but it sure wasn't the Beatles Love Me Do.  Weird time signatures and complex rhythms.   I remember him describing it to me as "musician's music".  High technical content...not too much for the layperson to grab onto right away.  That's kind of how I see (hear) Dolphy.  By the way though, sound quality on the Rudy Van Gelder remastered version on Spotify is really good.  Some very interesting percussion sounds.  I'm guessing it was a very good recording from the get go.  

Thanks for the recommendation Orpheus.  Enjoying the piano solo around the 3 minute mark on Capra Black.  Lee is certainly looking Miles-ish in that photo.  Least it looks that way to me.

I do still buy vinyl though most music purchase are CD.  Hear something really good on Spotify or YouTube and get it.  Burn it to hard drive.  

Would be hard pressed to explain why and when I buy vinyl...as the spirit moves, I guess.  Mostly buy used.  Somethings aren't available on CD (e.g., Sugarcane Harris - Keyzop).  Have a few of the so-called audiophile re-issues but enjoy finding an old copy of something from back in the day.  There's something about listening to music from and holding in your hands something made 40-50 years ago...especially when it still sounds so good.

I get it about the snails and raw oysters...I don't have a problem with 'em but then, don't ask me to eat liver or beets.

See if you like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDxf6WtbMY8

Salve

Orpheus -
Very pleased you liked Sugarcane's Keyzop.  

He was part of the duo, Don & Dewey way back.

His is another sad story of a musician.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_%22Sugarcane%22_Harris

Some of his discography is available on CD...but not that much.  See how little Amazon has vs his output.

Keyzop isn't on CD but I was fortunate enough to find a good vinyl copy  and at a decent price.  I have a few other of his recordings on vinyl.  

Among others, Harris played in Zappa's band.  
http://www.united-mutations.com/h/sugarcane_harris.htm

Don't be put off by the FZ name.  Try to ignore the (deserved) stereotype image based around juvenile bathroom humor.  Don is on several Zappa albums.  As a good example of how Zappa used him, I love his solo during"Little House I Used to Live In" on Burnt Weenie Sandwich.  Track starts at 19:13 at link here.  Harris' solo starts at 24:28.  It soars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBRUcElxhJU

As you say, enjoy the music.






  

Gents - If you haven't heard it, check out Alan Pasqua's "The Antisocial Club".  You might find it pertinent to your fusion "discussion" and enjoyable too.

I've liked all the Gilliam movies.  That one's a little too creepy for comfort.  Our future?  I hope not but the way things have been unfolding....

Glad you liked Alan Pasqua, Orpheus.  That YouTube link is but one track (title track) from what is a very strong album.  It's current music and very affordable on Amazon in CD.  

http://www.amazon.com/Antisocial-Club-Alan-Pasqua/dp/B000VKL0O4

Hmmm...Rok, ever see Terry Gilliam's fusion of Orwell's 1984  and  Monty Python?  He called it "Brazil".  It ain't a comedy.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvBF3Lxla98

Hello Orpheus et al -
Here’s someone’s list of Top 12 Modern Fusion, Jazz-Rock Albums posted to Amazon by "Madrok".
https://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/1Y9NNMLBOP8N3

These might be worth sampling at the least. I’m not familiar with any of these and only recognized a few names. The Dave Holland "Extensions" recording that I sampled here did NOT seem all that much like Jazz Rock to me but did seem worth further listening if I can find it.

Friday Afternoon in the Universe is by Medeski Martin and Wood. I do know them. Own and have listened to Shack Man & Combustication quite often. I believe their stuff is often referred to as "acid jazz". Some of their tracks can be a bit challenging (okay...make that a lot challenging) - too much in a "free jazz" style, I think. I will say the 2 CDs I have are excellent recordings sound quality-wise. Friday Afternoon here sounds pretty good too. Found it on Spotify. Track 1 "The Lover" is pretty accessible. These guys know how to lay down the funk.

Hope the list is interesting to you and yields some gems.

PS - Please at least TRY track 4 "Last Chance to Dance...." in that MMW Friday Afternoon recording.  Love his chords in the piano solo. 

Orpheus - 
Found the whole MM&W "Friday Afternoon in the Universe" on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS8O9fEa19Q

Ain't saying it is best album of the 12 (haven't heard 'em all)  - but they do put down a righteous groove on track1.  Hard to keep the toes from tappin' and the head from boppin'.  I'll be disappointed if no one else has the same reaction to that track.  Track 4 also worth some attention.  Maybe others as well.  

Here again is the link to the 12 album Jazz-Rock fusion list I found on Amazon: 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/1Y9NNMLBOP8N3

Hope you do enjoy it.

Orpheus - No problem that you didn’t care for the MMW. I am a bit surprised but can handle differences in taste AND always appreciate getting a politely delivered alternative point of view. I don’t listen to hip hop on any regular basis. If that groove on Track 1 of MMW’s Friday Afternoon is typical of hip hop, maybe I need to start listening more!

From your exchange with Rok it sounds like you and he are more traditionalists with respect to your jazz music preferences. As a general rule I have to agree with your assessment of contemporary music/jazz and would extend that to a LOT of modern art. I don’t we are evolving. I think we are DEvolving. Good stuff is the exception to the crap that seems the norm these days BUT exceptional good stuff is out there.

Jafant - saw your one liner re Medeski, Martin Wood. New to you? or familiar with their stuff?? Very good musicians I think, even though some of their compositions can be a challenge listening-wise.

Salve all.

Hard to keep up with the scintillating discussion here, so if you’ll pardon this potential non-sequitur, I thought I’d add a little more fuel to the fusion fire (lest it peter out). Frogman might enjoy this if no one else (though I hope others do). Give a listen to two Andy Summers recordings that possibly qualify as good "fusion"...(or not).

Green Chimneys - The Music of Thelonius Monk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53jApHNHKdM&list=PLPysN17izwa2L03L9h3XUYbltlzpQVPM9

Andy Summers - Peggy’s Blue Skylight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53jApHNHKdM&list=PLPysN17izwa2L03L9h3XUYbltlzpQVPM9

@frogman
As requested..
A link to Andy’s very good "Earth + Sky". Unfortunately not the entire album - something of a playlist mix - but you can tell the tracks that are from E+S by the album cover. I hold Andy’s post-Police solo work in high regard. Piece by piece collecting a good bit of that portion of his ’oeuvre’.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28plEPacLZs&list=PL8F0DF9DDF60D2980

Unlike Green Chimneys and Peggy’s Blue Skylight, that are interpretations of music by Monk and Mingus, respectively, the compositions on E+S are Summers own.

By the way, I certainly agree with your favorable opinion of the ECM label...as you say, interesting music and typically very well recorded - great sonics. My first experience with ECM was a Ralph Towner LP I borrowed from the local library years ago. Knew nothing about him or the label at the time. Fortuitous. My buying habits lean mainly to CDs but I enjoy looking for good condition, used ECM vinyl.

Hope you enjoy Earth + Sky.

rok - not trying to be a provocateur but why should anyone care what Wynton says about who is playing "Jazz"?  Granted he is a talented jazz musician...an accomplished, celebrated artist.  But is he "keeper of the flame" as it were?  I'd be real interested knowing what criteria he's using to arrive at those judgements...which is just another way of asking, has he got a "definition" of jazz?  I am NOT trying to bust your chops on this...thinking it's a discussion worth having is all, touching as it does on some of the recent music suggestions appearing on this thread.  

Rok - 
Not much time this AM.  Will write more later.  Great answer.  Knew of the man but not much more.  Have to say again, I enjoyed that video of his jazz band's performance that you posted.  Do you not think Wynton has any peers in today's jazz music world?  No other equally qualified authoritative voices?  If I were serious about pursuing this topic would have to read Marsalis...try to see if he wrote specifically about defining jazz.  "I know it when I hear it" doesn't do too much for me.  OK.  Later and Thanks.

Frogman wrote - "What the purists don’t want to accept is that you can’t stop the evolution of the art form (any art form); it is always a reflection of the times. The purist thinks that he is "protecting" the art form by blanketly (?) rejecting the new. I think Wynton can take much credit for keeping the flame of tradition alive. However, one has to ask oneself the question? Ultimately, what does the most damage to art in the overall scheme of things? To try to keep the flame of tradition alive by rejecting the new directions that the art form takes; directions which are a natural part of its process. Or, to accept the new directions with the knowledge that accepting the new doesn’t have to mean forgetting about tradition, while holding the new up to the same standars for defining excellence. By doing the latter, what you end up doing is bringing a larger and younger audience to the art form who will end up discovering the traditional. There is always room for the new and the old, and excellence is not defined by whether it is new or whether it is old. "

Well said, Frogman. Great counterpoint to Wynton’s position and one, personally, that I tend to believe..."art will evolve" whether I want it to or not.

Acman thanks for the Jean Luc Ponty links. I had liked his playing with Zappa but limited sampling of his solo stuff (Cosmic Messenger?) just sounded awfully dated to me. On the other hand, the Blue Note recording (available on Amazon and I will order) did not. Seemed fresh. The King Kong it opens with is one of my favorite pieces from Zappa (to the uninitiated, see KK Variations on Uncle Meat). Thanks much.

Orpheus very much enjoying your Didier Lockwood link. Have forwarded to to family. My sister is a classically trained violinist but lately interested in other forms (Grappelli music book on the stand in their music room).

You know visiting this thread is like dropping in on a friend living in an apartment with thin walls whose neighbors are a loud and dysfunctional family. Kind of interesting, odd and funny all at the same time. Just sayin’....

Is this fusion? or is it jazz??
(please pardon the interruption by a non-attorney spokesperson)


Lyle Mays (self-titled) 1986 Geffen Records
1 Highland Aire
2 Teiko
3 Slink
4 Mirror of the Heart
Alaskan Suite:
   5 Northern Lights
   6 Invocation
   7 Ascent
8 Close to Home

Hello acman3 - 
Am pleased someone else is a fan of this recording.  Certainly it has elements of both jazz and rock...though I think it leans more towards a "jazz sensibility".  Glad you knew of it.  

"I have worn out 2 Lp's of this!" - well then it is time for you to get a CD (or HiRez download if such exists)!  

I have a couple other Lyle Mays "solo" recordings.  This S/T, his first, I like the best.  Saw him w/Pat Metheny when "As Falls Witchita" first came out years ago.  McCarter Theatre Princeton NJ.  Was a magical show.  

Later.  

Salve

Quick hit & run here (intermission for popcorn, maybe)...

Talking funk...well, not recently but regardless, check out:
The New Mastersounds "Made for Pleasure" (2016).
(funk stew...track 4 is reggae)