Jazz for aficionados
Alex, as good as Herb Ellis is, I heard him so much as a sideman, that I had forgotten how good he is in his laid back kind of way that's ideal for West Coast jazz. His thanks to Charlie Christian reminded me that as much as I've read about Charlie Christian, I haven't heard him enough. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, people may not believe this, or accept it as truth, but music is a reflection of everything that's going on around the musicians. While this is my perception, I would not debate it with anyone who thought otherwise because it's far too broad. When I was listening to Roy Eldridge "Little Jazz" on trumpet, I could see men and ladies on a ballroom floor in their best attire, dancing to that kind of music. Although this scene was from a movie, because I was too young to be on any dance floor at that time, I can still visualize it. I began jazz with Bird, Diz, and Miles, and it's just recently that I'm going back to swing, thanks to you. Here's something that Acman posted, which is classic jazz in the same vein as what you and Alex posted, but it's relatively new, which means there are musicians still putting out some good "classic jazz". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw7qbNZ0iVo Enjoy the music. |
"There's no future without the past and anybody who doesn't really understand where jazz has come from has no right to try to direct where it's going". -- Julian "cannonball" Adderley I guess that quote from Adderley sums up my problem with "new" Jazz. The tune you posted, 'sneaky Pete', was well done, BUT, it lacked something. I don't know what, but I know when it's missing. Why were there only three guys on the cover, when an entire big band played the music? Cheers |
Rok, "Full Circle" wasn't missing anything according to my ears. Here are the players: "Full Circle" features Bromberg on upright bass, piccolo bass (a bass guitar tuned to the register of a guitar), and drums--his first album to play drums on. He is joined by trumpeter Arturo Sandoval, pianists Randy Waldman and Mitch Forman, sax players Doug Webb and Bob Sheppard, percussionist Alex Acuna, vibe man Craig Fundyga, and many other fine players". Although I've never heard the sax players, they are smoking. This album even included a tune titled "Nawlins"; maybe you should listen to the whole album. I think these guys are well versed in the "classic" language of jazz; although it's new, it's more retro than in the genre of "new jazz". Since Frogman is the professional musician, maybe he could come in and put his perspective on "Full Circle" Enjoy the music. |
If fusion is to be defined as the combining of different genres of music, then Jesse Cook can be considered the King of fusion; he combines Flamenco, Jazz and an assortment of Spanish flavors. I could listen to him all day long. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1OWF85IHQ&list=PLCC0BB7690585E0D3 Enjoy the music. |
Rok, I've been listening to a CD that was a very expensive record just a short time ago, if you could get it. This is a young Miriam Makeba with a sparkling voice. If she had been recorded at this time, singing in the shower, I would buy it. Ladies can last a long time performing as superb vocalists, but there is such a short time when they have that "girlish sparkle". This is it. Order ID: 104-3008068-4493012 Item: Miriam Makeba / World of Miriam Makeba You will be more than delighted when you get this CD. Enjoy the music. |
"He likes to go barefooted". I know what you mean about "Nana", he sounds good with other people, but not too hot by himself. I just thought of another big reason the jazz you posted sounds so much better, I always heard it on old scratchy records, and I don't care how good the music is, a little of that can go too far for me. post some more of your favorite music in that genre. Enjoy the music. |
I do like the interplay between these guys…Everybody is listening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOBuupPjHkg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh5KTLZnDS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj88PiosNvI |
Acman, you have been very consistant with new jazz, but this last "Danny Green Trio"; misses me, sometime it sounds like people playing different tunes, maybe it's my headphones, Give me your take on it. It's for sure that I can't be counted on for "New Jazz"; I have to fish around in the old stuff or jump genres. I'm not going to post anything that I wont add to my collection, that would be dishonest. It seems that someone has gone on vacation, we're not getting much action, or is this my imagination; a response would be appreciated by you and Rok. Enjoy the music. |
Appreciate the feedback. I knew Danny Green would not fly as easy as the others I played, but I think someone will enjoy it, and thought he deserved the exposure for his new recording. I enjoy what his Trio are doing and find my fingers snapping. I thought it was a little too retro and no startling virtuosity, but it grew on me. You can't win them all! |
****Everybody is listening**** Well, duh!, some might say. A seemingly obvious expectation of musicians in an ensemble; but, there’s listening and then there’s LISTENING. As you point out, Acman3, these guys are listening big-time with wonderful interaction and support of each other. A new one to me, Danny Green is a very very nice player with a rather gentle touch on the keyboard which serves the style of his compositions well; compositions which go beyond simple structures and the familiar and comfy twelve bar blues format. The trio is clearly a working band very familiar with each other’s playing styles and exibit a kind of musical intuition for each other and familiarity with the form of the tunes. One thing is to play the "head" of a tune with unusual "stop-time" figures; another is to be able to incorporate those musical "stop-and-go’s" within an improvised solo in a credible way. Sometimes virtuosity is not about speed and number of notes, but about simplicity and musical cohesion; virtuosity of musical intent. Very nicely done! Thanks for the introduction. One of the more interesting and different takes on the piano trio format: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJW6Fw9-DY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K7iaGSYk1hk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x2We0zoJNL0 |
I've often heard there are only two kinds of music "good and bad". Just who determines which is which? "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", seems to be a more appropriate statement to me. Our minds are computers that contain a record of everything we have experienced in our entire life. How those computers respond to music depends on that composite record. If the music does nothing to elicit a pleasurable response, it's thumbs down on the music; consequently, our take on the music is determined by us, and not the music. It's early in the day; that plays a part on how I respond to music. Unless the music is spectacular, it will get a negative response. When you add all these factors together, one can easily see that it's the individual and not the music that determines the rating. Frogman, I hope that explains why I'm "neutral" to the music you've presented. Enjoy the music. |
O-10: ***** Our minds are computers that contain a record of everything we have experienced in our entire life. How those computers respond to music depends on that composite record. If the music does nothing to elicit a pleasurable response, it's thumbs down on the music; consequently, our take on the music is determined by us, and not the music.***** Great Post. Another way of saying, "The Great Unwashed decides". Getting the mechanics, or nuts and bolts correct, does not necessarily result in good music. Cheers |
Sometimes neutral is all that the art aspires to be. ****our take on the music is determined by us, and not the music.**** Exactly right. And exactly the point that I've been making for over three years. "Our take" on the music is usually a reflection of ourselves. But our own individual take on the music is not the final arbiter of the music's ultimate value; after all we are clearly not clones of each other. Perfect example: I can't for the life of me understand how the Jesse Cook clip can be felt to be anywhere near as "spectacular" (to use your definition) as any of the recent piano trio recordings. I wish I could say I was "neutral" to it. To my sensibilities it is bland, derivative and (almost) totally pointless music. Obviously, not to all. But, that's just me and goes to your point. |
Frogman, not only am I into that clip, but Jesse Cook's music in general. What I don't understand about your statement is the fact that you have been most positive about Cuban music, and the title of that tune was "Havana"; it had the feel of Havana. I can picture a young Cuban girl, or couple dancing to that music in Havana. You have raved about the Spanish influence of music in Cuba, but yet you find Jesse Cook bland, when he is presently the worlds leading exponent of the Spanish guitar, that totally befuddles me; that's a contradiction if there ever was one. Are you saying the music of Cuba is pointless and bland. Enjoy the music. |
O-10, there is no contradiction. ****Are you saying the music of Cuba is pointless and bland.**** I would hope that you are not serious with that question, because, surely, you must know that the answer is no. I am glad you like Jesse a Cook and his music. I find it to be pleasant enough; but, formulaic, highly produced and, in spite of all the different influences, not a good representation of any of one them and not an interesting "fusion" (World Music) result. Your question suggests that simply having the influences of Spanish music makes it good music; clearly not the case. No need for argument. You like it; I dont. I look for something else in this type of music. |
Rok, Frogman amplified my point that it is us, and not the music that makes the determination in regard to whether or not the music is good or bad. Here is a record with some fascinating cuts that I like a lot; it is a two record set; consequently, you get your monies worth. While I don't like every cut, there are enough of them to make it a good buy. I'm not sure it's on CD, but you can check. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM13pdyn5JY&list=PLRRe_urOjL_9GmyMV5pavQEfGI9DaInE4 Enjoy the music. |
Btw, for anyone interested, the melody for the "tune" in the Jesse Cook clip was an appropriation (iow, "lifted") of a traditional Colombian "cumbia" with lyrics made popular in the early 50s titled "La Mucura". This is an early version by one of the greatest Cuban singers of all time, Beny More: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1x3dXHylR4 |
Today's Listen: McCoy Tyner -- SAHARA For all you Impressionists. In lesser hands, this could have easily been noise. Thankfully these hands are quite capable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJz5J-k04CQ&list=PLphrIV29xxqtHaJHsSAJuTZL5uILcJOdw Cheers |
orpheus10, Not to put too fine a point of this 'good v bad' issue, but as I see it, good v bad is commonly applied in an absolute sense but too often it is used in place of 'I like or dislike'. When you say 'like' or 'dislike' it is a personal statement whether you choose to amplify it or not. When you say 'good' or 'bad' it suggests that this categorization has more of a universal application to the music absent your personal enjoyment or lack thereof, and most folks would expect you to amplify on how you reached that conclusion. FWIW. Frogman, I just listened to Rene Marie's 'Sound of Red'. It is easily the best recording that I have of her music (and that is most of them) both by virtue of her singing and the recording. Your comments about her diversity of styles is right on point. Interestingly the last cut, 'Blessings', strongly reminds me of some of Eva Cassidy's songs. My appreciation for Eva's music and voice is exceeded only by the sadness it brings to me to know there will be nothing new. Acman, Thanks for the recommendation for Sari Kessler's 'Do Right'. I listened to it just after Marie's recording. Very different voices and styles, but very enjoyable non-the-less. I little more laid back, I think. |
McCoy "Sahara": not sure what it has to do with "fusion", but one of the best records of the 70s and a longtime favorite. Much has been made about why McCoy left Trane's qt., but the huge musical-influence debt that McCoy owes Trane is obvious on this record. A direct extension of his work with Trane's Classic qt., McCoy takes his pentatonic scale-based playing to new places. A very distinctive musical vocabulary. Amazing player and record. |
I may be the one confused, but I think Frogman's comments were made in regard to McCoy's recording "Sahara", which Elvin Jones did not play on. Great record BTW. If your point was that Elvin was somehow effected by Coltrane, Well EVERYONE was effected by Coltrane! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qehpliGYw0w |
Reached for 'Blues and The Abstract Truth', and grabbed this instead. Great record. Eric Dolphy is in the group. If I were leader, and played Sax, i wouldn't let Eric within a mile of my recording session. :) In addition to being a great record, it will also irritate the Modernists and their Minions. Just imagine, Blues and Jazz!!! Outrage!!! Listen closely you will hear the howls coming out of NYC. Listen to all the tracks. All are killer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6B8ZEZNP7w&index=1&list=PLMYJI0hHMCKK-sY0m_xiS7fvxFgbuuCCa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apo2Md6NRw0&list=PLMYJI0hHMCKK-sY0m_xiS7fvxFgbuuCCa&index=6 Cheers |
About as good an explanation of how fusion came to be as I've read. Btw, my comments re McCoy had everything to do with "Sahara" and Trane's influence on McCoy (and just about everyone that came after, as you pointed out). I don't understand why it's necessary to misrepresent how the so called "modernists" feel about the blues; and with sarcasm at that. There has not been a single derogatory blanket comment about the Blues by anyone here who also happens to like modern jazz. The issue is not that anyone doesn't like or respect the blues (it would be absurd not to), it's simply that there are other styles to like as well; and, it's the traditionalists who tend to be less open to other styles. |
O-10, you may like some of these. The real deal and with Beny More, one of the greatest voices in Cuban music (there's some filler in there, unfortunately): https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLISpodrpNfpv5u45SNWga74-NqZNDw7IZ&v=dksbW7oa-gU |
Wow! Too many posts for me to really keep up. I've been working more hours than I care to work and haven't had the time to keep up on this thread, (my favorite), listen to music, and cook. But...... Cuban music has been addressed. I love Cuban music. I double and triple love it. Thank you all for your clips, I have enjoyed them immensely. Here's one from the "neighborhood." Enjoy. -- Bob https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AlYpp8F5a8 |
Two albums of Paco De Lucia that everyone should have. (ok, there are at least 15 more, but for beginners, if there are any here...) Of course, the ones with trio are also 'must have', with MCLaughlin and Di Meola and with Larry Coriell Saw him live, with sextet and flamenco dancers, pity that he did not recorded more alums in that form (3?) Sextet, from 1981 'Solo Quiero Caminar' https://youtu.be/V3RW1XF1NP4 'Almoraima' from 1976. https://youtu.be/lY2_eAZo4Lk Great Music, hope you will like it.... |
Great music indeed! The real deal in Spanish guitar. Love this music and have always found it to be incredibly soulful. Have "Almoraima" and will look for "Solo Quiero Caminar"; I am intrigued by the use of the flute in the ensemble. Thanks for sharing. Picked up this one recently; with Camaron De La Isla, the great flamenco singer: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xbIqVzf6PUo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sht0la5TgH4 |
Another Paco: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw_gjadQuUQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hEabYzXXhVA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TvVW0grBYkM Flamenco is a great example of the "fusion" of different musics: Arab (Moors), Jewish, Gypsy and native Spanish (Andalusian). |
I can't for the life of me understand how the Jesse Cook clip can be felt to be anywhere near as "spectacular" (to use your definition) as any of the recent piano trio recordings. I wish I could say I was "neutral" to it. To my sensibilities it is bland, derivative and (almost) totally pointless music. Frogman, that statement is an indication of how bland and pointless your taste in music is; that's why I never liked it, but I didn't want to offend you. Since I am diametrically opposed to your taste in music you will understand why I don't like it. As I stated earlier: Our minds are computers that contain a record of everything we have experienced in our entire life. How those computers respond to music depends on that composite record. If the music does nothing to elicit a pleasurable response, it's thumbs down on the music; consequently, our take on the music is determined by us, and not the music. The things your computer has recorded are so different from mine, that what your computer considers spectacular, mine considers bland and tasteless; it all makes perfectly good sense now. I started with "Jesse Cook" this morning and he sounds better than ever. This is "La Rhumba D'el", it makes me wish I could dance; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnVa_rJiGm4 let me tell you a little about Mr. Cook, He has recorded on the EMI, E1 Music and Narada labels and has sold over 1.5 million records worldwide. That means there are 1.5 million people who disagree with you. One of Cooks teachers was himself a student of the great maestro Andrés Segovia, and this is according to the man himself: "My strange way of playing guitar is a hybrid of styles. I was a classical guitarist as a kid, and I studied flamenco and then I studied jazz. So there are three musical and guitar traditions in my background. And one of the forms I use, rumba flamenco, is itself a hybrid created in the 1800s when sailors were coming back to Spain from Cuba, having heard these Cuban rhythms. And here I am, 150 years later, taking it and mixing it back with modern music and seeing where it takes me. Music is a constantly evolving thing. Frogman, your call on this man's music is not an indication of his music, but how poor your taste is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWjgyFvZ2OA His music incorporates so many genres of music I like, that I might listen to it all day. Enjoy the music. |
Aargh! Here we go again; good one, O-10. Friendly suggestion: never worry about offending me; no chance of that happening. In the meantime, if you care to try and keep things remotely productive, I would only point out the obvious fact that my comments were about the one Jesse Cook clip that you posted and nothing else. I would, of course, encourage you to consider how the recently posted clips of the "Pacos" differ and compare to Jesse Cook's music and why some might consider the differences important; but, well......Less importantly, I could point out that it was you who first opened the door of criticism of someone else's music posts. All this would, of course, presume appreciation of the act of being reasonable; a tall order I'm sure. I will not be responding to any further posts about this idiotic matter; so, feel free to fire away but don't expect a response (unless, of course, and as I tell my kids, there's a different attitude). I would also seriously consider Newbee's most recent post and how that relates to blanket statements. Enjoy your day; beautiful here in NY. |
