I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Came back from a long weekend to some great clips posted by Acman3. Nice work!
As big a fan of Pat Martino as I am, I'm almost embarrased that I am not very familiar with his fusion work. Great clip. What a player he is! One of those players whose ideas seem to flow out in an almost matter of fact way his technique is so effortless.
And Orsted Pederson! One of my favorite bass players. I became familiar with him from his work with Dexter Gordon. Beautiful player.
Something else going on during this period: the return of the great Art Pepper after a hiatus. He returns with a more aggressive, less cool, sensibility:
Since there is not much going on here, will use the opportunity to post music and musicians that perhaps deserve more attention.(like usually) Here is one of them, Herb Geller with his sextet, was based in L.A. but he did not play in cool style, music on this album swings hard with lots of solos. Geller left Usa for Europe in the early sixties, where he stayed for next thirty years, and continued to make music. Here are some clips, year is 1955.
Still, we were talking about fusion, so here is one suggestion, not exactly in the style of the stuff Frogman posts, but maybe some of the 'purist' will like it even more. Chico O' Farrill and Clark Terry on 'Spanish Rice' album from 1966.
Nice clips, Alexatpos; as usual. Love Chico O'Farrill and his orchestra; as you say, classic "fusion" of Latin and Jazz. Fantastic arranger who had a background in classical music composition, which I think shows in the discipline and "tightness" of his arrangements. Clark Terry is fabulous as always. Timeless stuff, while having a definite 50's flavor.
Herb Geller came up before (with Clifford Brown?). Wonderful player; as you say, very swinging player. However, to my ears, he and this ensemble show signs of the "cool" style. His style and that of the other band members, as well as the writing, is definitely "West Coast"; if not especially "cool". What I mean is this: if Parker (and Jackie McLean, Phil Woods etc.) are beboppers who swing hard, and Paul Desmond (and Bud Shank etc.) are "cool" players with their lighter tone and less incisive sense of swing, then Geller (like Art Pepper) occupies a kind of middle stylistic middle ground. "Warm"? Wonderful Conte Candoli..
Some thoughts about this "fusion" thing:
First of all, there is obviousy, and as demonstrated by the last several posts, that there is no reason that the genre (and any other) cannot be posted and discussed ALONG WITH the more traditional styles which, as you say, the "purists" may prefer. Even more importantly (I think), the ambiguity of the term and disagreement of what exactly it is points to what, for me, is always the key issue: the label doesn't matter; is it good music or not? Of course, not everyone likes certain styles; but it highlights the value in trying to understand what it is that makes certain music appeal to some and not others. Integrity of the music and level of craft are things that are not always given enough attention in favor of a purely knee jerk emotional reaction to it. You have always expressed your willingness to "leave the door open" to the possibility of appreciating other styles. Personally, I think that is what it's all about. You may like this:
Frogman, like I said before, I have no problem with different music posted here, finally even if I dont listen it at the present, man can always learn something new. I wrote about it not long ago, for me and perhaps for some of the others (would like to hear their opinion too) is often the matter of 'tone', the way some musician plays and has his sound, the crucial thing for 'liking' or disliking some music. I have said, that there are numerous 'jazz jazz' players that I do not listen, because I do not 'like' enough their sound. For example,its realy hard for me to get accustomed to the sound of electric keyboard or synth in some of the music that goes under 'fusion'. So I admit, there is a long way ahead of me... But, as a principle I do not see the reason why should not we exchange thougts and suggestions and especially if it comes from 'inside', from someone like you or Lfsl, who are musicians by trade. If we all would like and know the same musi, no matter of which style, it would be quite boring forum and your words are certainly true. My hope is that you will not run out of patience and that you take some of the words said here lighthearted. As for the clip I could not see it, sometimes some music has issues with rights or countries where it can be seen, I guess.
Alex, as always, a thoughtful post. We have absolutely no disagreement. I have no issue with your attraction to the tone of a player and I completely understand not liking the sound of electric instruments. The reason that I enjoy dialoguing with you is that not only do you "leave the door open" for yourself, you do not insist that someone else’s door be shut. While I would encourage you to keep that door open, I assure you that I would have no issue if you were to decide to close it. The difference, of course, is whether there is respect for the other viewpoint. That process is what has caused discord on this thread unfortunately.
Tone and its importance in the scheme of things is such an interesting thing. I mentioned in my previous post Jackie McLean; brilliant jazz player. However, perhaps because I play the same instrument, I hate his "tone"; it is rough, ragged and not very refined. However, I love his jazz playing. The often mentioned Wynton Marsalis has a tone on the trumpet that is amazing; to die for. Yet, I don’t like his playing. A very personal thing; as it should be. As you say, no reason that there cannot be a healthy exchange of ideas.
Alex, that was a great post. Tone is debatably the biggest consideration for all professional musicians, at least those that play acoustic instruments. Classical musicians in particular have to be able to play with extremely wide variations of tone color, though to a trained ear they will also always sound like themselves. One of my old-school teachers said something that I agree with myself and tell my own students - no matter how well you can play the instrument, who will want to pay to listen to you if you don't have a good sound?
I am much like you when I am listening for pleasure (as opposed to for study) - I simply won't listen very long to someone whose tone I don't care for. And I'll let you in on a little secret - I generally have a dislike for the sound of electronically produced music. It just doesn't have the life that acoustic music does, for me, no matter how well done. It always sounds a little dead, or metallic, in comparison.
Acman, thanks, that clip I could open, and its realy nice music, I dont have that album, will search for it. Frogman, the credit for it goes to you, of course. Learsfool ,kind words,I will blush,ha,ha. Glad that I've maybe started some meangfull exchange of thoughts, but we still must wait for the guys from peanuts gallery to hear their opinion about the subject of tone and its influence on their (dis)likings of some music mentioned here. As for me, I have noticed that more and more I listen or serch music from West coast, but there are lot of reasons to be considered why. I believe that 'taste' of music shows more about one's essence of personal existence than it can be simply described with few words.Somehow expirience teach me that often one's estechical choice determine his ethical.( there are exceptions, of course, on both sides) I do not want to sound too radical or too shalow ,its just the thought on subject and would like to here more personal explanations instead of descriptions, when there is talk about the things that are liked or not.
Hello acman3 - Am pleased someone else is a fan of this recording. Certainly it has elements of both jazz and rock...though I think it leans more towards a "jazz sensibility". Glad you knew of it.
"I have worn out 2 Lp's of this!" - well then it is time for you to get a CD (or HiRez download if such exists)!
I have a couple other Lyle Mays "solo" recordings. This S/T, his first, I like the best. Saw him w/Pat Metheny when "As Falls Witchita" first came out years ago. McCarter Theatre Princeton NJ. Was a magical show.
Some one very interesting comments, Alex; and, one very provocative one.
****As for me, I have noticed that more and more I listen or serch music from West coast, but there are lot of reasons to be considered why.****
That is really not surprising given the emphasis that you put on tone. GENERALLY speaking, West Coast players, particularly those of the "cool" school, play(ed) with a kind of tone that is...lets say, gentler, softer in texture, less hard. But, I think that it's important to remember that this is not necessariy considered, in absolute terms, a "better" tone, but simply different. After all, how can one argue against the tone produced by, for instance, Phil Woods who many consider to have had one of the greatest and most "developed" alto saxophone tones ever; albeit, far more aggressive and "harder" than most West Coast players. The music itself is also, generally speaking, "softer", more relaxed and not as hard driving as other styles. However, and as always, there is much more to it than this. The "tone" of a player, as important as that is, does not determine the QUALITY OF THE MUSIC that he makes. To make matters even more interesting, you have players like the great Joe Henderson who play in a hard-bop style with a tone that is "softer" and without the edge that most hard-bop tenor players have. Analogy: a person who is soft spoken and never raises his voice, but can be very sarcastic and disagreeable with the CONTENT of what he says. I think that, ultimately, it is the content of what the person says that is most important. We are obviously speaking in generalities and I also think that a distinction needs to be made between individual instrumental tone and the general sound of, for instance, electric instruments. But, broadly speaking, all this gives insights into and partly explains a person's likes and dislikes.
****I believe that 'taste' of music shows more about one's essence of personal existence than it can be simply described with few words.Somehow expirience teach me that often one's estechical choice determine his ethical.( there are exceptions, of course, on both sides)****
That is a very interesting and provocative comment. I would like more details about what you mean by the connection between aesthetic choice and ethics.
Thanks for some very interesting topics of discussion.
I've had a copy of this for many years and for a two or three month period, the Alaskan Suite was my go to music.
Whether or not it's jazz is a good question. When I bought my copy it was in the jazz section where it probably belonged. But it could have been equally at home in the modern classical section.
I always sort of found the album to be jazz musicians playing a classically arranged piece on jazz instruments.
In other words I don't really know. What I do know is that I like the music quite a bit.
Alex and Frogman on Alex: "
I believe that 'taste' of music shows more about one's essence of
personal existence than it can be simply described with few
words.Somehow expirience teach me that often one's estechical choice
determine his ethical.( there are exceptions, of course, on both sides)"
I once heard someone describe music as a "ladder for the soul." Over the years I've thought about that comment many times and find myself agreeing with it more and more. A ladder goes both up and down. (insert big grin here)
Frogman, will explain what I meant, I just need to catch a little time, after the weekend. In meantime, another sax player whose tone I like. Album is recorded in 1956. Al Cohn ’Cohn on the Saxaphone’...
A simple observation and comment, yet extremely significant, I think. Inherent in the implied meaning of the dual purpose of a ladder is the suggestion that it is meant for movement in both directions and not meant for standing still. It goes to the questions of what is jazz and to the issue of aesthetics and even ethics; they are a moving target.
Those who have followed and/or participated in this thread know all too well how much discord there has been over the issue of what jazz is (and also political issues that have to do with ethics). I personally feel that to try to define what jazz is in a narrow way is pointless. Not because it can't be done (it can't), but because one has to ask oneself the question "why?"; what purpose, really, does it serve? The idea that somehow the integrity of "Jazz" is degraded by not defining it narrowly is silly and ultimately self-serving. I also find it curious that when even our most revered jazz artists proclaim that "there are only two kinds of music...good music and bad ("the other kind"), this simple "rule" is often ignored. I prefer to think of it in terms of the "traditional" and the "non-traditional".
Very good and interesting comments on these topics recently and I think that the Lyle Mays recording is a perfect platform for looking at the issue of what jazz is or isn't. I think that jzzmusician's description is a good one. For me, while it is definitely a kind of "fusion", it is ultimately jazz. Why? Because it meets my requirements for what jazz is: improvisation is a key element within a compositional and harmonic framework that is sophisticated in a way that makes it an obvious extension of traditional jazz. We can analyze it further for the sake of more clarity, but ironically it may only serve to make matters even more vague and confusing. For many, "jazz" has to have the typical swing feel and have an obvious "bluesiness" to it. If one looks at how jazz has evolved all the way from Dixieland, to swing, to bebop, hard bop, and onward, one hears a continued move to a less obvious rhythmic "swing", and to a more "straight" rhythmic feel (like in rock). Harmonically, jazz became more and more sophisticated and "extended" from simpler core harmonies while still having roots in the blues. Mays' recording is a great example of this. Yeah, it's "fusion", but it is also "jazz". Most importantly, it's good music.
I'm still trying to get a handle on how the issue of ethics relates to aesthetic choices (tone?). THAT should be an interesting discussion. I suspect that, as always, there will be no clear answers.
I heard the most recent recording from Etienne Charles yesterday; not available on YouTube yet. This is earlier material. Love the relaxed feel of this guy's music and playing; a "fusion" of jazz and his roots in Caribbean Island music (Trinidad):
You said, "
I also find it curious that when even our most revered jazz artists
proclaim that "there are only two kinds of music...good music and bad"
I laughed out loud when I read that! I watched a short documentary on Branford Marsalis some years ago. On one segment he was on the telephone trying to get a gig and the person on the other line was a bit confused on what kind of music he would be playing. After a couple of attempts, Brandford blurted out, "Look, there's only two kinds of music. "Good music and shit."
And I believe him. Your comments about defining jazz are right on. Think of dogs. There are a zillion kind of dogs and mutts. But when a dog sees another dog he starts barking saying, "Hey! You! I'm a dog too!" And the tails start wagging.
Sort of like jazz, or country or classical or whatever. There are a boatload of different types but while difficult to define in words are easily recognizable by ear.
Just got off work and gonna fire up some of that Afro Cuban jazz with the big fat horn section.
Thanks, Alex. I love Al Cohn; thanks for those clips. I have always really liked his playing and his tone is definitely in the style that you (and I) like so much; a tone that leans back to that of the swing and West Coast tenor players. Maybe "splitting hairs" a bit, but his particular tone has not been my favorite as I find it a little dry and "reedy"; but his playing is wonderful. One of my very favorites with that general tone style; this guy kills me:
I will say that of all those players, Al Cohn and Stan Getz are, for me, the most interesting soloists from the standpoint of having the most interesting harmonic vocabularies; more modern than the others. Tell me what you think of these tones.
There is no need for much words, Frogman, you posted the Greats. The last player is unknown to me, but the that guy from Japan has a great taste and puts lots of good music on his chanel. Would be interesting if he would join this forum. Certainly I would like to visit a shop where he buys music. Here is another sax player who had interesting, troubling life and career but he made it. Frank Morgan, played in the 50s, than vanished for 30 years to come back with success (in jazz terms) This one is from 1955.
Beautiful tones all round. A modern player I think off when you talk of tone, is J.D. Allen.
He was listening to a middle school player and when playing the blues scale, the youngster played all around the scale without actually playing the scale, and when asked why he said "Thats for third graders". He remembered thinking the same way and decided to reinvestigate the Blues.
Acman, liked more first clip of two. I feel funny posting these two next clips (same as to say the sky is blue), because the players are so well known, but still, just for this subject, two of my very favourite sax players and albums (when we speak about 'beautiful' tone)
Paul Gonsalves from 1960. album ’Gettin Together’, with Nat Adderley and Wynton Kelly, Jones and Cobb
If this doesn’t prove that beauty is in the eye (ear) of the beholder......
ALL beautiful tones in their own unique ways; and, importantly, in the service of the style of the music. We all obviously have our preferences. I haven’t heard any tone in the last few posts that I would call anything less than attractive and certainly not ugly. What all this shows is that one USUALLY can’t separate the style of tone from the style of the music. What I mean is, I can’t imagine a player with Paul Gonsalves’ tone playing funk like Chris Potter; or Ike Quebec playing Coltrane’s "Giant Steps". Potter has one of the greatest tones of the current tenor players and he is a wonderful contemporary player.
Alex, Ralph Morgan: Nice! Wonderful player and beautiful alto sound. I am defintely getting a sense on your preferred tone style and it goes hand in hand with the style of jazz I think you prefer.
One of the prettiest alto sounds ever from a lesser known great alto player. I think you will like this player (and music):
A more contemporary player with one of my favorite alto sounds; contemporary and aggressive but not too much so (for me). The great and underrated Charlie Mariano. One of my favorite records in my collection:
Since we are on the subject of tone: kind of strange to follow the velvet of Gonsalves with the torn denim of this player, but 1978 saw the release of Blythe's debut recording. One of the most unusual and strange alto sounds I've ever heard; but interesting in its own way:
Acman, if you dont mind, I can recommennd couple of albums of Gonsalves, that I have, along with 'Gettin together' First, a later one, from 1972.s with Earl Fatha Hines,simply caled 'P.G.meets E.F.H.'
Frogman, I know for HalMckusick,so far what I have heard I like it, but still do not have any of his albums, will search for some. I could not open some of the clips you posted, will try on some others ytube chanels. As for Frank Morgan, he recorded quite a few albums, the one I posted is my favourite, but you can check the others to see is there any other that you like.
You guys sent me on a weekend binge with your recommendations for some fat Afro Cuban Jazz. I had a terrific weekend.
Last night my wife and I wedged ourselves into the "sweet spot," held hands and listened to Stan Getz, (one of my top 5 ballad players), Al Cohn, Zoot Zims, and then wandered over to Bill Evans, "Conversations with myself."
All was good. Late night, beautiful woman, kinda romantic, know what I mean?
And then I put on what I consider to be the absolute top smokin hot off the charts you're shittin' me rendition of "Mack the Knife."
I started bouncing around the room lip syncing and making stupid shark pantomimes and the mood shifted.
Oh well.
Love this version. Seriously, I love this. Seeing her live checked one off my bucket list.
Damn... Bill Harris, It Might as Well Be Spring...... Damn. He, (and his friends) are just so damn good. This is a superb example of a ballad grooving very hard. Thank you for posting.
I’ve never heard the Oscar Peterson version of Mac the Knife. I’ve got another window open and am ordering the cd. Thank you again.
And finally, Bob Brookmeyer. I haven’t listened to any of his stuff in 25 years. I even own the record!
Thanks for posting.
Bob
Here's Scott Hamilton performing "Estate," one of my favorite bossas.
Interesting rendition of that classic ballad by Bill Harris. Here is an uptempo version of the same tune by an amazing player with one of the prettiest trombone tones ever:
Have always loved Bob Brookmeyer. It should be pointed out that he plays the valve trombone which plays like a trumpet but an octave lower.
Beautiful tenor tone by Scott Hamilton. This is my all time favorite (vocal) version of "Estate" from one of my favorite records in my collection. Gorgeous music and beautiful tones all around; a must have record, imo
Clark Terry was an amazing talent. It is often said about a player that he has a "voice" on his instrument. Clark's playing is a perfect example of how a great player plays what he hears in his head; his "mumbles" vocal scatting sounds just like his playing. Clark Terry broke the color barrier on network TV and when Johnny Carson retired was a sad day for music on television; the sound of a big band would not be heard again as a regular part of a TV show. And what a band! Clark Terry, Conte Condole, Frank Rosolino, Pete Christlieb, Snooky Young, Herb Ellis, the list goes on.
Shirley Horn with Strings. Estate. I remember the first time I ever heard the song it was being performed by Kristin Korb at a part time jazz club I used to own. I was knocked out. I've rarely heard a song that hit me so hard. After the gig I asked her about it and the next night she gave me Shirley Horn's cd.
I've listened to it a boatload of times, danced with my wife with it playing and often when I get a new piece of gear it is the first tune I play. It's a wonderful rendition. The best.
Speaking of great flugelhorn players (Farmer), Clark Terry was one of the pioneers on the instrument; one of the very first jazz trumpet players to play it. Carson was a class act; he loved his band.
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