Jazz for aficionados
While you guys are ironing things out, I'm going to enjoy some "indigenous people's music". As you pointed out Rok, she's not "Native American", but she's indigenous to Norway; although if I'm not mistaken, this music is Native American. I don't think "Eagle Brother" was Norwegian. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kprl0CECykA Right now I'm shuffling my feet to the beat, can you dig it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kvTNbc8d5s Enjoy the music. |
jazzcourier, I have a great deal of respect and admiration for your knowledge of jazz and its history; and, I certainly respect your writing chops. However, I believe you are taking this matter way too far. First of all, unless you have followed this thread closely since its inception, you cannot have a good sense of the communication and writing styles of its active participants so as to keep comments that are made in their proper perspective. The phrase that you object to has been used, rightly or wrongly, many times on this thread and there has been no indication that it has ever been used with any kind of racist intent. I realize that you may feel that the phrase that you find offensive is offensive under any circumstances and in any context. However, you have no way of knowing what is in the heart of the person who uses what is a fairly common phrase that, while possibly and rightly considered insensitive, is not necessarily anything more than that in the heart of the person using it. Likewise, I don't know you personally and know you only from your interesting and educated commentaries on jazz so I have no way of knowing what is in YOUR heart; so, the following comments are not directed at you personally and are simply an expression of my skepticism as concerns reaction to this kind of "negative activity". Political correctness run amuk has become a kind of cancer and an opportunistic tool to, ironically, stifle freedom of expression. Moreover, experience has shown me that, especially as concerns racism, those who see racism at every turn are sometimes, in fact, the worst racists of all. Again, this is only an explanation for my skepticism and a plea to not make possibly unfair assumptions and is nothing directed at you personally. Now, you made your feelings known and admonished the use of and the person who used the phrase and demanded an apology. It was made clear that no apology was forthcoming. Then you escalate matters by taking the issue to the "authorities". This begs the question: did you escalate matters because you found the behavior even more offensive than you first did, or did you escalate matters because Rok would not apologize? Considering that you had no way of knowing whether he would ever use the phrase again, then escalating matters because there would be no apology is uncalled for. Who, then, would be playing "security guard on duty"? Additionally, if per chance the "negative activity" you refer to is the comment about talking about "the origins of black music and slavery", you should know that those two topics have been the subject of very intense and interesting discussion on this thread and it has been done in nothing but the most positive and respectful way; even when there has been disagreement. Since you have not been a part of those discussions you would not know that. Just one more reason why proper context and restraint in jumping to conclusions is so important. I strongly urge you to reconsider escalating this matter and I look forward to more of your interesting comments about the music. |
EDIT: my, my, we are impatient. I believe I said "later this evening". No? Perhaps my "hav(ing) gone mad" has affected my sense of time. -------------------- O-10, eventhough I am not a cynic by nature, I seriously doubt that the "major war is over"; but, I always welcome a cease-fire. Re you question, and please understand that I am taking your questions at face value. If you meant something different by any one of them, I have no way of knowing: A well known jazz artist would not go to St. Louis and then decide that he wants to gig. Unless, of course, he goes to spend a summer vacationing with O-10 or other personal reason and then decides he wants to gig. A well known jazz artist would generally go to St. Louis AFTER he or his booking agent has lined up some engagements in clubs or festivals. Simply showing up in St. Louis does not guarantee being able to get gigs at all; even when well-known. Clubs and festivals have artists booked and rosters filled WAY in advance. Now, lets assume that the scenario IS that the artist decided to hang with O-10 for a few months and then decided that he wanted to also do some playing while in St. Louis. A "gig" is a paying job and he might be able to get some gigs in small clubs on short notice by virtue of the fact that he is well known. These gigs pay very little. The artist may also simply want to play (for no money) to keep his chops in shape. Being well known means that he probably already knows who the best players in town are, or knows someone who does. By contacting those persons he can find out if there are any scheduled jam sessions in town or can put together a trio for an engagement that he may have been able to book. If the artist goes to St.Louis because his agent has booked some gigs for him, the agent may also book the other musicians by contacting booking agents in St. Louis or hiring the players that the artist wants to play with based on recommendations by other players or personal experience. I’m not sure I understand what you mean by "improvisational jazz, no Moonlight In Vermont or other standards". If you are talking about "free" jazz, where EVERYTHING is improvised and there are no "tunes" or predetermined structure to the music, then "gigs" will be just about impossible to get as there is a very limited audience for this kind of jazz. It will also be more difficult to find decent "free" players. If you are talking about the kind of jazz that is discussed here where there is typically a "tune" (melody) and then the players improvise over the chord changes of that tune, then "Moonlight In Vermont" qualifies as much as any other tune that has been posted here. It has a melody, a certain form, and a set of chord changes. It is an appropriate vehicle for improvisation and, in fact, has been played and improvised on by many jazz artists. As recently posted, there is no reason that Sonny Rollins playing "How Are Things In Glocca Morra" should not be considered "straight up jazz". The community of jazz musicians is a small one and players know each other or know about the ones who can play. I suspect that the clip of Eddie Fisher playing live is a perfect example of a player showing up to play with a band he had never met before. This has been discussed before. While the idea that players who had never met can play so "coherently" is impressive, keep in mind that, especially in the case of that Fisher clip, it’s pretty formulaic music with very simple chord progressions or even one single chord for all the improvisation. Most decent players can do this in their sleep; and , in fact, the players accompanying Fisher are decent and no more. Now, to play "Giant Steps" with its complicated chord changes or to play simpler tunes at the highest level of artistry is a different matter altogether and only a well rehearsed band can do that credibly. |
Today's Listen: Marcus Roberts -- ALONE WITH THREE GIANTS Roberts plays solo piano. The Giants are Jelly Roll Morton, Ellington and Monk. Jelly probably would have named it, THE Giant, plus Ellington and Monk. Are the tunes are just wonderful. Even the pianos sound exceptional. They are listed in the notes. Both Steinway Concert Grands and Young Chang 52" Uprights were used. Why was this done? Only The Frogman knows for sure. One tune from each composer: Black and Tan Fantasy - Ellington https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCcuwHd9S2Y The Crave - Morton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL3a12m_U7M In Walked Bud - Monk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r15Ri5nSA6k Excellent Disc. Ain't got it git it. Which tune was played on the upright? No peeping! The winner gets the loan of all my Bey Sister CDs. Cheers |
Frogman, here you are about the Bill Evans Record Store Day release: http://www.resonancerecords.org/release.php?cat=HCD-2019 |
Mari Boine: Compelling. Could not turn away. What does it have to do with Native American music, I'm not sure. Great pictures also. Some of the folks that commented said the music was from the Sami people who live in Lapland. I think that's up above the Artic circle. Reindeer folks. I have seen several performances live, by Indians in New Mexico. Didn't sound anything like this. Guys get in a small circle with drums, and the beat never changes. Very simple stuff. The dancing is the thing. Now, if some of our more political correct folks want to demonstrate their moral superiority by doing the outrage thing, this would be the time. A Norwegian, singing 'indian' music, in Norway, with a full band backing. Not an Indian in sight. Cheers |
Frogman, your answers to my questions tell me that you are "phaking the phunk". As I stated, this was in 69 and that does make a difference. There were a number of thriving jazz clubs in St. Louis at that time. My friend was well known among "aficionados", and "hard core" jazz fans, "No phaking the phunk" with them; you had to be able to get down with the real deal, they were the fans who overflowed the clubs when "Trane" came to town. As I recall, my phone bill was through the roof; we didn't have these plans where you can call and talk as long as you want, we had to pay for every single long distance call. He was calling other musicians for the artists he wanted in St. Louis. There's a pianist who I used to talk to a lot, who could play Silver's tunes as good as the man himself. Usually I came to where he was playing before he went to work so we could rap. This pianist had a photographic portfolio with almost all the jazz artists of that time frame who we discuss a lot on this thread. When ever anybody came to St. Louis and wanted a jazz pianist, they called him. I often asked him why he stayed in St. Louis as good as he was. (this was something he knew without me telling him) I never got a good answer, but a friend of his, who had known him since grade school, told me, there ain't no way he was going to leave that "super fox" he was married to, while he went out on the road. The same condition might have existed with Eddie Fisher. Now that I think back, the conversations with the selected musicians were loose and casual, as if he (my friend) had no doubts that these cats could jam, and jam they did, to a packed house. St. Louis was, and still is "a blues town"; jazz addicts have to suffer from one fix to the next, meaning you could find blues all over the place, but not jazz; that's why when somebody like him was playing any where in St. Louis, that house was packed. I want to thank you Frogman, for helping me to answer my own question. Enjoy the music. |
"Compelling. Could not turn away. What does it have to do with Native American music, I'm not sure. Great pictures also." Rok, I've never been on or to a "reservation", or anywhere that was exclusively "Native American"; consequently, I thought that "was" Native American music. This link tells whatever anyone wants to know about a "reservation". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_reservation Rok, I would imagine each tribe would have "at least" slightly different music; but back to what I posted, it sounded "hypnotic" to me; to use my favorite word; I was mesmerized. I've got what might be the first CD Mari Boine put out, I bought it many years ago, now I see I'm going to have to buy more. Count me out of any discussion of whatever anybody is talking about; the name of this thread is "Jazz For Aficionados"; while we wonder wide and far in regard to music, if anyone wants to discuss Native American affairs, I suggest they find another conducive forum. Enjoy the music. |
I want to congratulate jazzcourier on an excellent edition of "All That Jazz", hosted by him on KUNM. I listened to it and found it highly rewarding and interesting; thank you for the invitation, jazzcourier. I recommend the show highly to all reading this. The word jazz "great" gets thrown around way too casually in my opinion. If so many of the musicians who we discuss we also call great, then what do we call a musician like Duke Ellington whose music towers above all but a small handful in this art form? Listening to jazzcourier's show reminded me of this and why it's so important as a listener to always aim to be a more and more discerning and smarter listener. The show featured many gems that I had never heard before; especially the radio broadcast transcriptions. Some of the biggest surprises for me: - Radio transcription of "Happy Go Lucky Local". Reminder of what great "old school" ensemble playing was all about. Tight, tight, right, and always conscious of the composer's intent with a beautiful sense of blend trumping (sorry) individual ego; saving the ego for when the individual's player unique "voice" was wanted by the composer which was how he always wrote. - Norris Turney's flute (!) on "Mahalia Suite". - Duke's solo piano version of "Nagoya" which would become one of the movements of "Far East Suite". Amazing in its freshness and modern sensibility. I appreciated jazzcourier's economy of words in his descriptions of the music. Got the point across without the "this is how tightly Bird tightened his shoe strings that day" kind of detail heard from another jazz dj I listen to (Phil Schaap). Anyone who is interested can, with a little sleuthing, find out more about jazzcourier's credentials; they are impressive. I hope he continues to post on this thread. |
O-10, my father would often say: "some people are not simply s&@?!d; they are, first and foremost, mean spirited". I could waste my time even further by asking what on earth I wrote that is fundamentally different from what you wrote; I won’t bother. I could also ask you why, if you knew the answer (or so you think) why you bothered asking the question. I won’t bother with that either; the answer goes to my father’s wise words. You are so pathetically intent on somehow proving me wrong about anything that, as always, you see only what you want to see. As always, no comment about the music. Shame on me for taking the bait. O-10, this last episode is the last straw for me. Not as far as my participation in this thread, you can’t control that; but, as far as my holding back about what I really think because I believe you are doing the participants and anyone new to the music a disservice by your insistence on keeping things in the gutter. That you know very little about the music and its language has been obvious and proudly admitted by you. The really bizarre part of all this is that I believe that, just as with your claims to have seen Coltrane live and which you later admitted were "exaggerations", you are making all of this stuff up. I don’t believe there was any jazz playing friend, no encounters with Grant Green, no nothing; all made up by a need to .....who knows? Shame on you. |
Rok, "Radiant Warmth" was the first CD I bought by Mari Boine; these are the "Wicki" facts on that CD; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari_Boine And here is the music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBypIxiieEU It was released in 1996, she was almost foxy then; there seems to be some kind of disease called "chunkitis" that ladies catch that makes them look "chunky"; but her music has gotten even better. There is no better way to communicate than posting links, which I established at the beginning of this thread; that says it all, argue with "Wicki" or "you tube" if you don't like it. Enjoy the music. |
Just a few of my faves that haven't been previously mentioned: Hank Mobley ~ Soul Station Andrew Hill ~ Point of Departure Stanley Turrentine ~ Sugar Thad Jones ~ Detroit-NY Junction Dave Brubeck Octet Sun Ra & His Arkestra ~ Jazz In Silhouette Quincy Jones ~ Walking In Space Bobby Hutcherson ~ Dialogue Ahmad Jamal ~ At The Pershing Horace Silver ~ Song For My Father Billy Higgins ~ Mr. Billy Higgins Charles Mingus ~ Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Gary Bartz ~ The Blues Chronicles: Tales of Life Gene Ammons ~ Boss Tenor |
Diane Schur with Maynard Ferguson rocks! Live Gene Harris. Most any Oscar Peterson that is well recorded. My actual favorite jazz song: How can you beat the invention of Acid Jazz? When Maynard Ferguson lived with Timothy Leary, Dizzy, Maynard, and others had to drive around the house to smoke their pot before they went in, because illegal drugs were never allowed (from "Licit And Illicit Drugs". a "Consumer Reports" publication. While tripping, they created some great music, including MF's "Summertime", marketed on the MF Sextet album. Too much of the rest of the album is typical Stan Kentonish, diminished seventh, big band arrangements for the sextet. |
Marcus Roberts’ pianos: First, very nice clips by Roberts. Which is the Chang upright? Interesting question. At first I thought, way too easy. Jelly Roll’s "The Crave". Why? Jelly Roll would probably have played on an upright. More importantly, the piano played on "The Crave" has been detuned; and in a big way. Listen to how it was made (tuned) to sound like a honky-tonk piano; which would, almost by definition, be an upright. Some of the right hand notes are deliberately and seriously out of tune and the piano seems to have, AT TIMES, a lighter and less weighty sound than the other two as a result of the detuning. There is, in fact, a technique used by specialty piano technicians called "Honky-Tonk". This would leave the Steinway Concert Grand for the other two tunes. But wait! The piano on the Ellington and the Monk sound like two different pianos. Hmmm. On the Ellington, the piano sounds weighty, full and rich, extended left hand and very sophisticated sounding; befitting the music of THE DUKE. On the Monk, the piano sounds lighter, both lighter sounding and a little muffled at the same time, different timbre, almost a little nasal, a little more nimble; like someone forgot to turn on the subwoofer. Dilemma: I know what logic tells me; but, I know what my ears tell me. If I get it right I will be forced to listen to several Bey Sisters CD’s. If I get it wrong I will be giving ammunition to some in certain quarters who are desperate for ammunition. Either way, a no-win situation 😥 Final answer: The Chang upright is played on Monk’s "In Walked Bud". Listening done on an IPad. 😁 |
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The Chang upright is played on Monk’s "In Walked Bud".****** AAUGH!!!!!! Curses, foiled again!! Can no one defeat The Frogman!?!? I would have thought it would have been the Jelly Roll for the reasons you stated. I will have to listen again for the out of tune Concert Grand on 'The Crave'. Thanks for the insight. Cheers |
Mari Boine: I had the whole thing wrong. I know that's hard to believe, but it's true. She is a member of the SAMI people. Her music is in support of ALL 'oppressed minorities' worldwide. And I guess there are slim pickings in Norway, hence the Native American thingy. Nice info and clips. You learn something everyday. Or I should say, I learn something everyday. :) Whew, that was close. Cheers |
Mitchmiller, I just got around to reviewing "Back At The Chicken Shack" by Jimmy Smith; That is one boss jam. The album; "The Incredible Jimmy Smith", got a 5 star rating from "Allmusic". There is no way this album could go wrong; not with a lineup like this. Jimmy Smith - organ Kenny Burrell - guitar Stanley Turrentine - tenor saxophone Donald Bailey - drums Rather than me wasting a lot of words, I'll let your ears be the judge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHbwQvNg-wc For my money, Jimmy Smith is the best jazz organ, and I can settle back in that groove all day long. Enjoy the music. |
"Hifijones", I like that moniker; it rolls of the tongue; like Sam Spade; Peter Gunn; Memphis Slim, I could go on and on, but you get my drift. Mr. Jones, I've had the majority of those albums in my collection forever, and I haven't played some of them in quite awhile, like Quincy Jones, "walking in Space". I think I'll pop that one into the player; Quincy is one cool dude, he goes from rap and hip hop to acid jazz. This jam reminds me of times I walked in space, at about the same time "Walking In Space" came out; what a coincident. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebvHk62DUtA Enjoy the music. |
Rok, you're trying to take over my space, I'm suppose to be "The Grand Poobah" around here; you're recommendation of Marcus Roberts is kind of moving me out of my space. No one but Marcus Roberts can play Jelly's music in a fashion that I will like the music; not even Mr. Jelly Roll himself; now that's really saying something about my opinion of Marcus Roberts. Keep em coming. Enjoy the music. |
Danvignau, I saw Maynard Ferguson at my favorite watering hole, stoned to the bone, and having fun. Somebody handed him a trumpet and he blew for a while, mostly clowning, and playing the high notes he's famous for. Him and the owner went way back; it was good to see somebody famous, out having fun and letting his hair down. Diane Schur is quite a talent, I have a few of her albums. Enjoy the music. |
Here's my musical contribution for the day; Herbie was boss in this groove, call it what you like, "Charley Brown" was gitin down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRvZA2URBUI Enjoy the music. |
mattmiller, don’t worry, sometimes it doesn’t last very long......sometimes it does. Following Rok’s lead: Who can guess why I am posting this? The winner gets my prize of the loan of The Bey Sisters CDs; I think it’s transferable ☺️. http://youtu.be/MsF9RMIXLfw |
Gabor Szabo is a very interesting musician who I don't think got credit as a jazz musician; but what do I know? At any rate here is one of his compositions that I thought I would share with you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJaAZ4z0_v4 This is the one where he kicks it up a notch; "Thirteen." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld310BQioTw Enjoy the music. |
And a sincere apology to mattmiller in case my attempt at stealth humor was not obvious; nothing directed at him personally. Thanks for the post and please stick around. Btw, we have recently checked out the great Michael Brecker. You mention Billy Cobham, his second record "Crosswinds" was the very first time that I heard Brecker. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l-b_h8i9eWU |
I was too upset when I learned of Gato's death to say anything coherent, that's why I remained silent. Now that I have regained my composure I can speak about my long love affair with Gato's music. Leandro Jose Barbieri, was born on November 28, 1932 in Rosario, Santa Fe Province, Argentina. Better known as "El Gato", the cat, he began playing music after hearing Charlie Parker's "Nows The Time". He died April 2, 2016 in New York, NY. My first album by Gato was "Chapter 1 Latin America" with cuts: 1 Encuentros 2 India https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcqbgVB-U5o 3 China 4 Nunca Más 5 To Be Continued When I saw the movie "Last Tango In Paris", the soundtrack for that movie, sealed the deal for me and "El Gato" for the rest of his life. The movie and the music were "one"; meaning, after you saw the movie, when you heard the music, the scenes with Marlon Brando, and Maria Schneider flashed in your mind; the movie was erotic and seductive, so was the music, because of the movie. The Tango is both erotic and seductive; Gato's music is very seductive, it pulls you in with it's "romanticism". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeDc_eHRM2Y He was his music, that's why you could feel the intensity of the romantism; an example is, "She Is Michelle" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pxJrSs1vuA I could go on and on about Gato's music, but I hope I have introduced you to enough so that you will go on and on with Gato's music. Enjoy the music. |
The Frogman: The last time I posted this music, played by the French at the Proms, it was panned by The Frogman. Horns out of tune and the conductor was an idiot etc.... This performance was given 5 stars for recording and performance in the latest issue of BBC Music magazine. Since there is a guy wearing headphones in the group, I assume this is the actual performance that was recorded and reviewed in the Magazine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVAB2z1RPu4 Since I am prone to buy 5 star ratings, I thought I would get your thoughts. Cheers |
Szabo: Was introduced to his music while in Germany. His were some of the first Jazz LPs I purchased. Right along with Quincy and Wes. I Have a ton of his stuff on LP. Hard to find now on CD, except used. I do have on CD, 'The Sorcerer' and '1969'. He definitely had a unique sound. Maybe so unique it all has a sameness to it. Brings back great times. Sansui, Dual and JBL. Cheers |
