*****
There will always be people with a different opinion than you. Some are just haters and others just get off on different music. ******
Acman3 gave me similar advice following the infamous "Bey Sisters" episode. Those wonderful, harmonious, swinging, song birds of Jazz. Unjustly Trashed by the entire thread. Not one of 'aficionados' finer moments. But I didn't take it personally, it's just Jazz.
I still get my weekly 'Bey Sister' fix.
Cheers |
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I think one of the biggest issues in these disputes, and one which applies to the music itself in a big way, is the absence of nuance. Iow, we tend to deal with descriptions of likes, dislikes, players’ styles, etc. in very wide gradations; instead of recognizing that there can be far more levels between simple "like" and "dislike", "good" and "bad"; and, certainly between "very good" and "one of the best". Example: I don’t recall anyone "trashing" the Bey Sisters. Not particularly like, yes; but, "trash"?
Excellent advise to not take it personally. |
Frogman, of course that I dont mind or take pesonally some of your critics or opinions about some players or their playing.
In fact, I am always intersted to learn something new, I know that that is a hard task without proper musical education, but still I can try.
As for the trumpet player, it is Dave Burns, and yes, we have mentioned him before, more or less with same words, yours I mean.
No comments for Clifford Browns clips? Everybody are familiar with those albums?
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"Some of his best recordings remained unissued until the Eighties, and were then only available in Japan in limited quanties."
Frogman stated;
Grant Green's "His Majesty King Funk" was, in fact, released the same year that it was recorded (on lp of course). This was the same time period that George Benson was making quite a name for himself with Brother Jack McDuff and his own "Cookbook". It's a good record and as Alex points out has some catchy tunes.
The "Verve" cd release date had nothing to do with the "Blue Note" records. We were discussing the "release" of the "Blue Note" records, and because I quoted notes on that CD you say it's related. You stated the "Verve" CD was released in the same year; what's the connection?
Acmans post
The Grant Green Mosaic box set with Sonny Clark is one of the releases that mostly came from Japan. It is highly regarded.
frogman
2,650 posts
04-17-2016 9:03am
Well said, Acman3.
If you agree with Acman, are you saying Grant Greens Mosaic box set should be well regarded, Frogman? or what are you saying? What did you mean when you made that statement?
Qdrone, could you name the stuff to avoid, I would like to buy it.
qdrone
799 posts
01-23-2011 1:29pm
Anything that says never released or only released in Japan. Or in box sets where you have newly discovered tracks (Mosiac has one or two sets with Green) I actualy posted for everyone to understand the times these recordings were made,heroin was problem among many musicians,I'm sorry that your so full of yourself that you thought i was just responding to you.
Since "Qdrone's post was directed at me personally, do you agree with his post? It's very difficult to follow where you're coming from, and what it is you're trying to say.
Could you compact and simplify; meaning say where you're coming from in fewer words.
Enjoy the music.
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Grant Green would have been better off if he had never left St. Louis. Blue Note came to St. Louis looking for Grant Green, he didn't go looking for Blue Note. He would not have become famous, but he might still be alive, and as well off as other St. Louis musicians. St. Louis takes care of it's musicians; but when they're destitute after being rich and famous, that's the last thing they want out. (once you become famous, people think you're rich)
I can think of a musician who was rich and famous, but became destitute and in bad health. Naturally they wanted to keep it a secret. When word got out, not only did they get help with medical bills, but attorneys helped them recoup millions in royalities.
All the St. Louis musicians who I know personally, live on the same economic scale as someone with a good job; they have a nice home and automobile, plus live good.
When word gets out about a musician being destitute, (right now I'm thinking of local musicians) the first thing that happens is a "benefit"; any famous musicians have to show up, and perform for free. Rich patrons can't just donate $20; they have to contribute real money, because their names will be on a plaque with how much they donated. Every musician in St. Louis has to show up. If they're too old to perform, at least they were seen. For fans like me, it's the place to see, and be seen by people you haven't seen for ages. Everybody has a good time, and we all benefit.
I'm glad Chuck Berry is still alive, he was always instrumental in benefits. Like I said in the beginning, no musician whose been famous wants anyone to know when they get destitute; a big mistake in St. Louis.
Enjoy the music.
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Today's Listen: Horace Silver -- IN PURSUIT of THE 27th MAN Three of the tracks with the Brecker Brothers and four with David Friedman on vibes, instead of the Brecker bros. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NMNHBy9NYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed04dStgKhY This is one of those, not underrated, but seldom mentioned gems. Check out the interplay between the piano and vibes on 27th man. Wow. I just had to burst out laughing. Great stuff. I think those Brecker Brothers are the real deal. Where did the title of the CD come from? Notes: Someone running after someone or something. The 27th man is representative of the improved advance man of the future that we are all striving to become. If one has a faint knowledge of numerology, one can derive added meaning from the numbers in this title. Grand PooBahs, and Those with a 'faint' knowledge, please weigh-in and enlighten the great unwashed. Cheers
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Alex, thanks for your evenhanded response; as always. Will comment on Clifford later when I have more time. I will say , however, that I have never heard anything by Clifford Brown that I didn't like. |
Rok, I do declare ☺️, I have been touting the Breckers here (especially Michael) for a long time. I seem to recall the designation of.....well, you know....rhymes with bread baker. I am glad that you have come around. Michael in my opinion was, as well as being a great contemporary jazz player and extremely influential, probably the greatest saxophone virtuoso that ever lived. Will have more to say later. |
O-10, you are not thinking "globally" enough. Green recorded several records for BN around and after the time that the Verve record was released. I was making a comment about the Verve record being indicative of Grant's playing relative to what was going on in the music scene as a whole (including BN) and why that may have affected his relationship with BN. I can't be any clearer than that. Of course, if one is coming from a viewpoint that business interests are always trying to screw the artist, then its more difficult to see the relationship.
Re my response to Acman3: it could not be clearer, please take it at face value. |
Frogman, you could talk for days and never say anything. I'm turning my computer off, not to be turned on or click "Agon" |
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Vincent Herring- 2015 CD. |
Today's Listen: Horace Silver -- 6 PIECES of SILVER To my ear, a fairly generic CD, esp by Silver's standard. 10 Tracks, three of which are versions of 'Senor Blues'. Donald Byrd on Trumpet. This vocal version is not talked about much. Vocals by Bill Henderson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YIbV8uUI24Slower. I like it. I notice that Dee Dee did not do 'Senor Blues' on her tribute CD to Silver. Cheers |
Aficionados, it's been over 24 hrs since I last posted, and I noticed Frogman hasn't posted either, could there be a connection?
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It is all about the JAZZ! |
O-10, remember your comment about my supposed feeling that everything you say has to do with me? Now, remember that word "projection"? Now, again, remember that word that you used, with unfounded indignation, describing what you thought I (and another esteemed aficionado who I will not include in this bs) felt that you were? You know.....that word that rhymes with "boron"? I am saddened to have to report that I believe you were correct in using that word.
****
frogman
2,653 posts
04-17-2016 3:06pm
(Alex, thanks for your evenhanded response; as always). Will comment on Clifford later when I have more time. (I will say , however, that I have never heard anything by Clifford Brown that I didn’t like).****
Get a life, man.
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Orpheus, guess we can all agry that at a present there are only a few of us that are participating on these pages. Personally, would like that there are more people doing so. Believe that higher tolerance would be one of things that might help promoting broader diversity of opinions and tastes. So, i will use Acman's words and say '
There will always be people with a different opinion than you. Some are
just haters and others just get off on different music. I love some
music that others don't even consider music. So what? 🙃
If you feel the same, I see no reason that you get offended by something that for exmp. Frogman may say about some artist that you ( or me, or anyone else ) particulary like. When doing so, imo, he does it on civil and educated view (from one point, without the doubt) If you think that maybe he (or someone else) lacks something in his perspective, you can easily share your thoghts, thats why we are all here, at first place, and that can only make the forum more interesting. Its not necessary that everyone has the same opinion, or the possibility to express their deep emotions about the music, with eloquent style, as we all know that some likings can not be simply converted to words. Also I feel that music is more than craft, but have enough sense to recognise that part as very important too. So, if we speak about Benson and Green, fast or flashy way, may or may not have advantage over groove and bluesey feel, its just up to any of us to decide what likes more. If someone likes and points that, at one side, as long as he has the capacity to recognise the other part, I see no reason for a throwing rocks. (or Rok's?) Hope that these words, or me addressing to you, would not be taken as offense. Too many words, no music. Byrd/Burrell 'All Day Long' https://youtu.be/Gz6UIoLNrcQ |
Today's Listen: Horace Silver -- THE JODY GRIND Seems as if all Silver's recordings contain at least one 'hit' tune. On this CD, it's 'The Jody Grind'. Six tracks, all good, But my favorites are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbQG0TArT60 piece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLvKi8Re5RM hip Woody Shaw on Trumpet. Notes by Leonard Feather. Notes that only The Frogman could love, or understand. BTW, Dee Dee killed 'The Jody Grind' on her tribute album. Album cover art? Disco Silver? Cheers |
I asked Learsfool what did he think of Andre Previn as a classical musician, and he hadn't heard any classical music by Previn; I looked but failed, and I responded. I have jazz by Andre Previn, and I tried to find some classical music by him, but this is all I found. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwEuR2TtW5cMaybe you could find some classical music by him and paste it so we can hear it. Or any classical you like best. learsfool 1,167 posts 03-20-2016 1:45am Orpheus, in the classical world, Andre Previn is mainly known as a conductor, though he did write a few pieces. He also wrote a few film scores. I don't think I have ever even heard any of his classical compositions, let alone played them. Certainly they are not performed very often, especially if he is not conducting them. His recordings I have heard where he is a conductor did not particularly impress me. Not saying they are not good, just that there are much better conductors. Learsfool, this is the classical Andre Previn; could you give a critique? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvU5OGdVFNcEnjoy the music. Frogman chimed in a conversation that didn't involve him one way or the other, and this is what he said; frogman 2,654 posts 03-20-2016 9:08am I would add that the posted Previn link is not "classical" music at all. It is Previn playing a twelve bar blues with orchestra sweetening. Previn is a wonderful musician, but this is pretty bland stuff; taking into account the differences in genres, no better than what one hears from Kenny G in an elevator. Just because it is played by an orchestra does not make it "classical". O-10, what do you think of this?: Now why would I think "Like Young", my favorite piece by Andre Previn since 1959, to be classical music? Frogman, I never said it was classical, I would have to be a MOWRON to think that was classical music. I stated this was all I could find by Previn , and I asked Learsfool to find some classical music. remember that word that you used, with unfounded indignation, describing what you thought I (and another esteemed aficionado who I will not include in this bs) felt that you were? You know.....that word that rhymes with "boron"? I am saddened to have to report that I believe you were correct in using that word. Now Frogman is saying that "Learsfool", that's the esteemed aficionado he's referring to, thought I was a MOWRON. Learsfool never made any such statement in a conversation that Frogman had no business commenting on what so ever; the conversation was between Learsfool and I. Enjoy the Frogman. |
In addition to "Like Young" by Andre Previn, he played some real hip "West Coast" jazz. I suppose you have to get in a laid back west coast groove with a glass of wine to dig Andre; his music is what was happening in LA in the late 50's, "Beatniks" were in; he even did the soundtrack for a movie titled "The Subteraneans"; here's "Jeru", as Miles called him, and Art Farmer with music from that movie. The man plays some real hip piano, but not everybody can dig it; that's the way it is with all things that are truly hip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puUeyUAX3IsJeru's baritone is one hip sounding sax, but not everybody can dig it; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo537jPaFPcEnjoy the music |
"It is Previn playing a twelve bar blues with orchestra sweetening. Previn is a wonderful musician, but this is pretty bland stuff; taking into account the differences in genres, no better than what one hears from Kenny G in an elevator." That's what Frogman had to say about "Like Young" by Andre Previn. One of us is "Phaking the Phunk", and it might be me; but it's for sure one of us is Phaking the Phunk". According to my evaluation "Like Young" is boss, and here are some other people who think so as well; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCZxvAG5wHgElla Fitzgerald doesn't think "Like Young" is elevator music. Linda Lawson doesn't think "Like Young" is elevator music; it jump started her career. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA81pRYtEXcNow it's either me or Frogman is "Phaking the Phunk"; one of us is not a true jazz "aficionado". Enjoy the music. |
Aficionados, feel free to weigh in on this controversy; that's the only way it will be resolved; when I say "aficionados", I don't mean the peanut gallery, but those who have contributed to this thread.
From my point of view, Frogman has been on a mission lately, and the evidence is quite blatant; but since Frogman is a musician, and you value a musicians input over a sincere and honest evaluation of the music, I have no problem with that; but to put this in the vernacular of the West "This town ain't big enough for the both of us", Frogman has made that quite apparent.
Disregard the fact that I started this thread because it can't function without you; unfortunately you have to make an ugly decision for the thread to continue.
Enjoy the music.
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Alex, I promised you some comments re "Best Coast Jazz". As I said before, I don't think I have ever heard anything by Clifford Brown that I didn't like. I have and love his recordings with Max Roach and "C B With Strings" has always been one of my very favorite ballads records. It is remarkable that eventhough he tragically died at the age pf 25(!) he was able to achieve such a high level of musicianship and be so influential. "Best Coast Jazz" is a terrific record, clearly in a bebop bag and has the stamp of Charlie Parker's vocabulary all over it; particularly (no surprise) in the case of the two alto players, but with a somewhat lighter rhythmic touch and softer instrumental tones typical of West Coast players. I think the tenor player Walter Benton sounds less committed to the bebop idiom and his connection to the older "swing" style can be heard in his tone, inflections and less complete command of the more complex bebop harmonies. Clifford is brilliant as always. Few players can "tell a story" the way that Clifford could: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLi8BquRmKA_n4umKPYQFIWlVzineIM9b2&v=uAl6Sro_OtIYour clip was a bit of a "blast from the past" for me since one of the alto players, Herb Geller, was the featured alto player on the very first jazz record I bought at the age 13, Maynard Ferguson's "McArthur Park"; great alto player. The other alto player, Joe Maini, definitely belongs on your list of "forgotten ones". Fantastic West Coast player who was greatly admired during his years in the LA scene, but sadly led a tragic life. Interesting, if sad, story: http://www.jazzwax.com/2010/06/the-truth-about-joe-mainis-death.htmlThanks for the Clifford Clip. |
Rok, will comment on those great Silver clips shortly. Thanks for keeping the Silver flame alive. |
Larry Young- new disk of Paris recordings. |
Rok, loved the clips from "The Jodi Grind"; especially "Grease Piece". I was not familiar with this record and the more that Silver is discussed, the more respect that I have for him. What a great composer! Tunes that are interesting, catchy and always bear his stamp all over them; "Grease Piece" is no exception. I find Silver’s playing interesting on this cut in that it reminds me a little bit of McCoy Tyner (!); had never heard that in Silver’s playing before and perhaps he was influenced by the presence of Woody Shaw on the date with his harmonic approach which, up to that point in time, was more modern than many of the players that Silver had had in his band previously. Shaw played more angularly and harmonically "outside". And Walter Benton! Talk about raw and soulful; reminds me a little of Bennie Maupin. Whatever happened to him? Will have to look for recordings of his stuff. "Pursuit Of The 27th Man" is kind of a legendary record for young saxophone players. It was a record that gave the Breckers (especially Michael) some real jazz cred; being that he, unlike many of the older players who transitioned to "fusion", "jazz-rock" or "whatever", began his career in those genres while also playing straight-ahead jazz. It took some time for the purists to take him seriously as a jazz player and the incredible musician that he was. You’re right about the rhythmic interplay between piano and vibes; beautiful stuff! Thanks for the clips. In a recent post, Alex made what I think is an extremely important comment and one that I have made in one way or another several times: ****Also I feel that music is more than craft, but have enough sense to recognise that part as very important too.**** The comment was made re George Benson and Grant Green and there is much more in that comment than meets the eye. Along with the appreciation of craft are two cosiderations that I think are very important: when and how to recognize that impressive "craft" is trying to make up for lack of substance (feeling) and the player is not saying anything; and (2) the possible danger in prematurely judging impressive craft as meaning that there is no substance. Tricky stuff which goes to the heart of much of what gets discussed here , sometimes in a contentious way, and which also goes to who we each are as individual listeners with our own likes and dislikes. Of course, our own likes and dislikes have much to do with our willingness to be both open minded and humble in how we judge the music and may not say much about the true quality of any music. I posted this once before. Amazing craft, and also a great deal deal of substance and feeling; IF we understand the language (post-Coltrane) he’s speaking in (imo). As Rok said, this guy was the real deal: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns02jzH8Ccw |
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One of the things that I like about Silver is that even in photos he seems to be, as my wife likes to say, "a good egg". |
Sinatra & Jones:
No matter how illustrious the list of players, when Sinatra is involved, his persona is such that, it always seems to be Sinatra backed a group of mere mortals.
But, it was a great lineup.
Cheers |
Brecker:
His talent is equaled by his stamina!! I thought about Gonsalves on 'Ellington at Newport'.
Nice clip.
Cheers |
Brown and Strings:
I always cringe when I see "with strings" in a title. This cut proves that Brownie could overcome and rise to any occasion.
Cheers |
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Back in the day, artists strove to record "with strings". They felt they’d really made it were they asked to record with strings. |
Hi Orpheus - one of your recent posts reminded me of the Previn conversation, and that fact that I never did listen to that. So I just did. Previn's general reputation, both in the classical and jazz worlds, is that though he was quite talented, he was not very consistent. At his best he was very good indeed, but he was not often at his best. For me, the particular clip you posted is blah. The orchestra members are clearly bored out of their minds, and his own performance is perfunctory as well. Definitely not Previn at anywhere near his best. I don't remember if the date was listed on that clip, but I would guess it was towards the end of his tenure as their music director. If it was near the beginning, that must have felt like a long tenure, indeed.....
You also asked for comments on what you call a "controversy." Though I am much busier these days than I used to be, I have visited this site every few days and have kept up with all the posts (though not all the music posted, unfortunately). My personal opinion is that this "controversy," as you call it, is mostly in your own head. I think it is pretty clear to everyone else reading this thread that Frogman does not have a "mission" against you. One thing you said in that post is very telling for me - "since Frogman is a musician, and you value a musicians input over a sincere and honest evaluation of the music..." huh??
First of all - this implies that Frogman is not sincere and is not giving an honest evaluation, which I think is ridiculous, and I think everyone else that reads this thread would agree.
Second - While I think you are sincere about what you like, and honest about it too, I would say that what you are being honest and sincere about is not really the music itself - it is your own emotional reaction to it, which is NOT the same thing at all. You have repeatedly proclaimed your ignorance of music and that you are proud of it and will never study it. You simply do not speak the language, and don't care. This is precisely why this is not a "controversy" to anyone but you, and also why there can be no actual debate or even meaningful dialogue with you about music. You can't really tell us WHY you like one performance over another, or one version of a tune better than another, because you don't speak the language. But you do get mad if someone says they don't agree with you, especially when they have good reasons. All I can say is that this is the price you must pay for maintaining your ignorance. |
Ellington/Gonsalves: what is there to say? No realer (?) "real deal" than this. Gonsalves was brilliant; as was, of course, The Duke. Classic stuff from an era when this kind of music was, miraculously, a much more important part of the social consciousness. Can you imagine hearing a band like that live? Check this version out: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbjzfZSmQMMObservation: check out who (mostly) in the audience were really digging the music? Answer: the kids. This was probably around 1957-9 and we know what was happening in pop music around then; and how R&R used a lot of these rhythmic grooves. Not sure what I’m saying (no coffe yet); but, just sayin. |
"Learsfool", Frogmans esteemed "aficionado friend", you and Frogman just totally lost it; for the "Jazz Aficionados" of which you are not one of, because you only respond in defense of "Frogman" or to help "Frogman" defend some indefensible position; I stated for them to disregard the fact that I started this thread in regard to an ugly decision they have to make. For you, I am rescinding that statement.
"Learsfool" I did not start this thread for two obsessed musicians to teach me music, "Can you read?" if so, read the purpose of this thread; the very last sentence in the purpose of this thread states; "Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Is there anything in that sentence that says "Please obsessed musicians, come teach me music"
Why don't you and Frogman start your own thread? And furthermore, your long-winded response only confirmed that you and Frogman are lockstep in "Cahoots", it didn't even respond to "Like Young" by Andre Previn, which the controversy was about. My suggestion is; why don't you two "obsessed lock-step in cahoots musicians" start your own thread.
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Prince- Rainbow Children (his Jazz project). |
Gonsalves at Newport:
On the original recording Paul sounds very distance from the band. I read where he blew into the 'wrong' mic, or the recording engineer made a mistake during the performance.
The record company asked Ellington to do it again for the LP, and The Duke declined, saying he would not ask Gonsalves to do what he did again on demand.
As a great Musician himself, he recognized that that was a special moment that could never be done again.
Later, they did 'fix' the recording through the magic of electronic and computer manipulation. I have both CDs and the LP.
Cheers
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This is what "Grant Green" was playing the last time I saw him live at the club in St. Louis; he appeared to be in good health. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZvQhQbPioYWikipedia, the free encyclopedia Live at The Lighthouse is a live album by American jazz guitarist Grant Green featuring a performance recorded at the Lighthouse Club in Hermosa Beach, California in 1972 and released on the Blue Note label. Enjoy the music. |
To whom it may concern:
If this was a thread about basketball, and there was a real current NBA player participating in the discussions, why would you say his input was not welcomed?
Would not his take and opinion of other NBA players, and all things basketball, be more valid than the fans, who can't play, and just watch on TV?
Let's stick with the music, before this goes too far.
Cheers
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Let me repeat, "I still appreciate your musical wisdom, for those like Rok, and Acman who benefit from it".
This is what Rok posted right after that;
O-10:
We all know that you do not want to know anything about anything. What we don't know is why you are so ADAMANT about telling us this at every opportunity.
We get it.
I would be a triple MOWRON, if allowed anyone to tell me what I should learn! Especially after I invited their words of wisdom for others who have this desire to learn, not once, but twice.
Enjoy the music.
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Hi Orpheus -
First, you seem convinced that I was the person Frogman referred to in that post - I am not at all sure. There could be a few others.
Second - you had asked me to respond to the video you posted of Andre Previn performing and conducting a Mozart Concerto with the Royal Philharmonic. This is what I belatedly responded to last night. I had no idea you wanted a comment from me on the other thing, which I did not listen to. I can go back and find it if you like.
As I said before - your "controversy" is in your head alone. I take everyone else's silence on the subject so far to mean that they probably agree.
I did not offer to teach you anything (in my last couple of posts, anyway, and I certainly will not in future, either). My intention was merely to try to explain why musicians and music lovers who have educated themselves about music do not and cannot take some of what you say about music seriously (because you proudly proclaim your ignorance of it). I do not think this is unreasonable - I am truly sorry if this offends you, but this is your communication problem - not mine. I personally don't think you can have a real complaint when people don't understand a point you are trying to make about music because it doesn't make any real sense, but hey, that's your right if you want to be that way, and you refuse to learn some musical sense. Everyone who does have musical sense sees right through it. As I said before, I will speak up for the sake of others who read these forums when something is posted here about music that is clearly wrong. And that's my right. I am not going to argue with you about it - that is impossible, for reasons which have already been said. If you really want me to exit the thread again, however, I will.
And by the way, I did post here about my favorite jazz albums, years ago when you first started this thread. I could easily add to that post if you wish, but I don't see much point if you are just going to lash out like you have been lately. Enjoy the music. |
Learsfool, I've got nothing else to do, I can play this game all night long.
Since I don't have any expertise in classical music, your evaluation of Andre Previn's classical music stands, and I couldn't care less.
The controversy involves "Like Young" by Andre Previn. Frogman said it sounds like elevator music; do you agree?
04-19-2016 6:37am
O-10, remember your comment about my supposed feeling that everything you say has to do with me? Now, remember that word "projection"? Now, again, remember that word that you used, with unfounded indignation, describing what you thought I (and another esteemed aficionado who I will not include in this bs) felt that you were? You know.....that word that rhymes with "boron"? I am saddened to have to report that I believe you were correct in using that word.
****
Frogman is saying that you "The esteemed aficionado" agreed with him in regard to that word that Rhymes with "boron"; is this true? That came about because he said I thought "Like Young" by Previn was classical music.
Learsfool, you nor Frogman read my posts very well; the controversy is about "Like Young" by Andre Previn, is that clear?
This is what you posted;
You have repeatedly proclaimed your ignorance of music and that you are proud of it and will never study it. You simply do not speak the language, and don't care. This is precisely why this is not a "controversy" to anyone but you, and also why there can be no actual debate or even meaningful dialogue with you about music. You can't really tell us WHY you like one performance over another, or one version of a tune better than another, because you don't speak the language. But you do get mad if someone says they don't agree with you, especially when they have good reasons. All I can say is that this is the price you must pay for maintaining your ignorance.
frogman.
How many times do I have to repeat; "I have no interest in learning music". Why is that a problem with you and Frogman?
Now you are telling me that's the price I pay for maintaining my ignorence. I say that's the price you pay for not being able to read.
The controversy was about "Like Young" by Andre Previn, would you care to evaluate that?
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Frogman and Learsfool, this post proves you both are totally "Out to Lunch"; since that's a New York phrase, I know you both know what it means.
From Wikipedia,
André Previn (2012)
André George Previn, KBE (/ˈprɛvɪn/; born Andreas Ludwig Priwin; April 6, 1929)[1] is a German-American pianist, conductor, and composer. He is considered one of the most versatile musicians in the world and is the winner of four Academy Awards for his film work and ten Grammy Awards for his recordings (and one more for his Lifetime Achievement).
Learsfool, how many awards have you and Frogman won between the two of you?
Previn made dozens of jazz recordings as leader and sideman, primarily during two periods of his career: from 1945 to 1967, and then again from 1989 to 2001, with just a handful of recordings in between and afterward (while he focused his career on conducting/recording classical music, and later on composing contemporary art music). Previn also did several crossover recordings with classical singers like Eileen Farrell, Leontyne Price or Kiri Te Kanawa, too, as well as several Easy-Listening records with piano and orchestra in the 1960s.
Like Oscar Peterson, whom Previn admires a lot,[8] and Bill Evans – or more recently Keith Jarrett, Brad Mehldau or Esbjörn Svensson – Previn has worked a lot as a trio pianist (usually with bass and drums). Following his performance on Shelly Manne's huge hit record Modern Jazz Performances of Songs from My Fair Lady in 1956, Previn released several albums of jazz interpretations of songs from broadway musicals as well as several solo piano recordings focussed on the songbooks of popular composers (André Previn Plays Songs by Vernon Duke, 1958; André Previn Plays That Old Black Magic, Come Rain or Come Shine, Stormy Weather, Over the Rainbow and Other Wonderful Songs by Harold Arlen, 1960; Ballads. Solo Jazz Standards, 1996; Alone: Ballads for Solo Piano, 2007), the late recording of songs by Harold Arlen with singer Sylvia McNair and bass player David Finck (Come Rain or Shine. The Harold Arlen Songbook, 1996), and his TV shows with Oscar Peterson (1974)[9] – which Marlon Brando simply called "one of the greatest hours I ever saw on television"[10] – and Ella Fitzgerald (1979)[11] respectively.
Jazz critic and historian Ted Gioia wrote in his book about West Coast Jazz, the scene to which Previn belonged:
[His] projects varied greatly in terms of quality and jazz content, but at his best Previn could be a persuasive, moving jazz musician. [...] Despite his deep roots in symphonic music, Previn largely steered clear of Third Stream classicism in his jazz work, aiming more at an earthy, hard-swinging piano style at times reminiscent of Horace Silver. Long before his eventual retreat from his jazz work, Previn had become something of a popularizer of jazz rather than a serious practitioner of the music. At his best, however, his music reflected a strong indigenous feel for the jazz idiom.[12]
And Dizzy Gillespie has stated,
He has the flow, you know, which a lot of guys don't have and won't ever get. Yeah. I heard him play and I knew. A lot of guys, they have the technique, the harmonic sense. They've got the perfect coordination. And, yeah, all that's necessary. But you need something more, you know? Even if you only make an oooooooo, like that, you got to have the flow.[13]
Jazz Recordings as leader/co-leader[edit]
Collaboration (RCA Victor, 1955) - with Shorty Rogers
Double Play! (Contemporary, 1957) with Russ Freeman
Pal Joey (Contemporary, 1957)
Gigi (Contemporary, 1958)
André Previn Plays Songs by Vernon Duke (Contemporary, 1958)
King Size! (Contemporary, 1959)
André Previn Plays Songs by Jerome Kern (1959)
West Side Story (Contemporary, 1959)
The Subterraneans (Soundtrack) (MGM, 1960)
Like Previn! (Contemporary, 1960)
André Previn Plays Songs by Harold Arlen (Contemporary, 1960)
André Previn and J.J. Johnson Play Mack the Knife and Bilboa Song and Other Music from the Threepenny Opera, Happy End, Mahagonny (1961, with J.J. Johnson, Red Mitchell and Frank Capp)
Duet (1962, with Doris Day, Red Mitchell and Frank Capp)
A Different Kind of Blues (1980, with Itzhak Perlman, Jim Hall, Red Mitchell and Shelly Manne)
Nice Work if You Can Get It (1983, with Ella Fitzgerald and Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen)
After Hours (1989, with Joe Pass and Ray Brown)
Uptown (1990, with Mundell Lowe and Ray Brown)
Old Friends (1992, with Mundell Lowe and Ray Brown)
Kiri Sidetracks: The Jazz Album (1992, with Kiri Te Kanawa, Mundell Lowe and Ray Brown)
André Previn and Friends Play Show Boat (1995, with Mundell Lowe, Ray Brown and Grady Tate)
Sure Thing. The Jerome Kern Songbook (1996, with Sylvia McNair and David Finck)
Ballads. Solo Jazz Standards (1996)
Come Rain or Shine. The Harold Arlen Songbook (1996, with Sylvia McNair and David Finck)
Jazz at the Musikverein (1997, with Mundell Lowe and Ray Brown)
We Got Rhythm. A Gershwin Songbook (1998, with David Finck)
We Got It Good and That Ain't Bad. An Ellington Songbook (1999, with David Finck)
Live at the Jazz Standard (2001, with David Finck)
Alone: Ballads for Solo Piano (2007)
Jazz Recordings as sideman/group member[edit]
With Benny Carter
Jazz Giant (Contemporary, 1958)
With Helen Humes
Tain't Nobody's Biz-ness if I Do (Contemporary, 1959)
Songs I Like to Sing! (Contemporary, 1960)
With Barney Kessel
Music to Listen to Barney Kessel By (Contemporary, 1956)
Carmen (Contemporary, 1959)
With Shelly Manne
Shelly Manne & His Friends (Contemporary, 1956)
My Fair Lady (Contemporary, 1956)
Li'l Abner (Contemporary, 1957)
Bells Are Ringing (Contemporary, 1959)
With Lyle Murphy
12-Tone Compositions and Arrangements by Lyle Murphy (Contemporary, 1955)
Classical music (as conductor and/or pianist – selection)[edit]
Chamber music / solo piano music[edit]
As in Jazz, Previn, the classical pianist, worked most of the time as a trio pianist (with violin and cello) in classical chamber music. Accordingly, most of his recordings as pianist are in this genre.
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Learsfool, could you evaluate this in any language you choose, but I don't speak French or Italian; neither do I have any expertise in classical music. This is "Holst": The Planets Op.32, since it's nice and long, you should be able to make a thorough evaluation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOk6NlEaOTYEnjoy the music. |
