Jazz for aficionados

Wait, wait, wait! How could I be so mistaken? Rok, you may not have known it, but YOU are the Grand Poobah of Jazz 😎

Oh no, I'm just a member of the Great Unwashed with a stereo, and a few Jazz CDs.

There is no place for folks like me in the esoteric arena of The   Grand, and The Exalted Grand, Poobahs.

When you Poobahs start throwing salvos, we unwashed just duck.

Cheers

Frogman I credited "Sun Ra" to Rok, when you're the one who submitted him, my apologies. You ain't seen nothing until you've seen a Sun Ra video; I keep hoping that one of them will make some kind of sense; June Tyson, and the other members of his crew worked so hard to make it happen, but it always fell short.

If you ever want to escape your own logical senses, look at a Sun Ra video.



Enjoy the music.

The employment office Sun Ra was great.   He should leave Ellington alone.   They are really from different universes.

He is much better when you can see the group.  Audio only,  not so great.  I confess I did buy one of his LPs.  I was always amazed that he got other players to buy into this stuff.

Cheers

Rok, Audio...WTF,,,,Although video will knock your mind out of socket, it's much better than any other other drugs.  I think dope addicts should be forced to look at Sun Ra videos, and then they'll be spaced without drugs.

Sun Ra; A Joyful Noise" is the video that shows the big house they live in, and gives a few performances of the crew; I found it entertaining.


Enjoy the music.

Another vote for Sun Ra.

He was on a celestial plane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR0oSpRA_B4

The best way to experience Sun Ra.  'King Porter Stomp' is really good, as is the dancer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SbvOPo4tHM

Cheers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b03BCkTA-oI

I hope everyone else is enjoying Sun Ra, I know I am, and I want to thank everyone for their contributions.

Enjoy the music.

Aficionado's, I've got "Silver N' Percussion" release date 1978, which I think is OK; of course that's not a good recommendation for a Horace Silver Lp, but that's all it gets. As a result of 1978 being the apparent cut off date for the best LP's, I'm going to go back in time from that point and anyone who wants to suggest an album we'll review it together.

Silver's Serenade is an album that doesn't ring a bell with me, so that's where I'll start.


AllMusic Review by Thom Jurek


Horace Silver's LP Silver's Serenade is a swan song; it was the final recording with his most famous quintet, which included drummer Roy Brooks, bassist Gene Taylor, saxophonist Junior Cook, and trumpeter Blue Mitchell. The band had made five previous recordings for the label, all of them successful. The program here is comprised of Silver compositions. The blowing is a meld of relaxed, soulful, and swinging hard bop, as evidenced in the title track. However, "Let's Get to the Nitty Gritty" has one of those beautiful winding heads, beginning so slowly and then jumping a notch in both tempo and intensity. By the time the tune gets to full steam, though there are short stops, the joint is swinging in blues -- check Mitchell's solo on this tune and how he keeps returning to Silver's theme as the root for his blowing. "Sweetie Sweetie Dee" moves from hard bop to funky bop. The dissonant chords that open "The Dragon Lady" have an Eastern tinge. The tune's head is spacious and breezy within a minute, and the tune begins to swing. Silver returns to those chords again and again as if to keep the players inside the mode he's created, letting them solo for only a bit at a time. The knotty turn-on-a-dime changes in "Nineteen Bars," the final track, are pure instrumental and compositional virtuosity. Cook's blowing on his solo is matched by Silver's comping, moving through octaves and key changes. The tune smokes from start to finish as the album comes to a close. This is another excellent recording by the greatest Silver quintet. The 2006 Rudy Van Gelder Edition features no bonus tracks, but sound fanatics will be pleased by the clarity and separation here.

Aficionados can go to "you tube" for a test drive on these tracks, or write a review on any they are familiar with.



Enjoy the music.

I agree "Silver n Percussion" was probably not one of his best (certainly not one of my favorites) and that his very "best" was probably before that date. However, I think a cutoff date of 1978 might be a little premature. Personally, I wouldn’t want to ignore everything after that date. Imo, Silver was one of those rare musicians who deserved a listen to everything he did. Some really good stuff after 1978 like:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lHUkX1cfDBk

Love Clark Terry, talk about sense of humor.

Here’s "Silver’s Serenade". Classic Silver composition. Man, the guy could write! And always with his personal stamp all over it. Blue Mitchell is great as usual. O-10, listen to Gene Taylor on brushes; very Art Blakey-like. Very laid back and not particularly propulsive; a particular style, that’s all, and creates a certain feel. Great tune.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ROht6SP6JdM

Horace Silver Quintet; "The Dragon Lady"; this jam starts off to my liking; the beginning certainly fits the title. The Dragon Lady was a boss chic in the comic strip "Terry And The Pirates"; I know most of you are too young to remember that. I didn't care too much for "Terry And The Pirates" but I sure nuff dug The Dragon Lady; she was exotic, Oriental, and everything else that went with her name. I think this tune does a good job of depicting, "The Dragon Lady"


                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nE9u3VuwUM


Enjoy the music.

"Horace Silver", Hangin Loose; the piano definitely sounds like a cross between Horace Silver, and Bobby Timmons on some "Messengers" Album that I can't think of at the moment.

"Clark Terry"; definitely has a sense of humor, sounds like he done had one too many; reminds me of some argument I've overheard before in a lounge; that was a good tune.


Enjoy the music.

"Silver's Serenade" is a nice laid back tune; Junior Cook's short bit sounded especially good, and then him and Blue Mitchel come in in unison near the end, nice touch. I liked it.


Enjoy the music.

Today's Listen:

Horace Silver -- SERENADE TO A SOUL SISTER

This Silver is a little different.  From the music to the Blue Note album cover.  I like both.   Stanley Turrentine shines. (1968)

My two favorites from the CD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZEkxWzUSDs 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uNzmGsaZQ8 

Cheers

Rok, I remember "Psychedelic Sally", she was one hot mama, and could she dance, she twisted a hole in the floor.

That rain dance reminds me of the time when I was in the Sonora Desert, and it had not rained since God knows when; it was so dry rattle snakes were crawling around with their tongues hanging out. Me and the Lakota Sioux were wandering what to do, when Horace, Stanley, and the rest of the cats pulled up in a long black Cadillac limousine; they started playing that there Rain Dance tune, that's when me and the rest of the Native Americans began doing our thing to the beat of the music, and before you know it, we had a thunderstorm.


Enjoy the music.

Is this a change of pace or what?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXXmeP9TvBg


Enjoy the music.

If any body is still wandering why I don't reveal my friends name, another reason is it would be pointless; it's not that he doesn't have good jazz recorded as a sideman, and as a leader, but that music doesn't compare to what he was playing when he was staying at my apartment that summer; not one single note of that music was recorded; makes me want to cry.

Enjoy the music.

If anybody thinks that he's making up that stuff about the rain dance, you would be very mistaken.  The reason O-10 and I argue so much is that he and I know each other from way back.  I am the other musician friend; the one who did practice that summer (constantly) and I was there on that desert trip.  I have had incriminating evidence of his dancing all these years and have threatened to reveal it on several occasions.  The "Carwash" post is simply too much to take.  Here is O-10 doing his raindance:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JgZstbXnxaY

Damn!  I have played that CD a million times and I never imagined any of that.  I shudder to think what goes thru your head when listening to Sun Ra.

O-10, you got moves man!

Cheers

Frogman, That is the funniest dance ever, and I didn't even practice.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, I really get inspired when I hear Horace and Stanley together.


Enjoy the music.

Since nobody was posting, I spent a lot of time pursuing the Dragon Lady.


              https://www.google.com/search?q=dragon+lady+vietnam&espv=2&biw=1028&bih=635&tbm=isch...


Check them out, they are all very interesting.


Enjoy the music.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The Cape Verdean Blues is an album by the Horace Silver Quintet, led by jazz pianist Horace Silver. The quintet is joined on half of these tracks by trombonist J.J. Johnson, with whom Silver had been eager to work for some time. The album was inspired by Silver's father, John Tavares Silva, who was born in Cape Verde.

Track listing
All tracks by Horace Silver, unless otherwise noted.
"The Cape Verdean Blues" - 4:59
"The African Queen" - 9:36
"Pretty Eyes" - 7:30
"Nutville" - 7:15
"Bonita" - 8:37
"Mo' Joe" (Joe Henderson) - 5:46
Recorded on October 1 (#1-3) and 22 (#4-6), 1965.


"Cape Verdean Blues"


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gt7QXwYpZo



Enjoy the music.

On this album both ours last mentioned  protagonists are playing. Aldo this is not my favourite album of Paul Chambers , there are some nice playing here as well. Here are some links from Paul Chambers sextet 'Whims of Chambers' from 1956. with Donald Byrd and Horace Silver, together with some other greats.

https://youtu.be/3op2LT4B5e8?list=PL6A0DDC005EAF991F

https://youtu.be/aI3eLPSQbzo?list=PL6A0DDC005EAF991F

https://youtu.be/kNhwQFRrS4Q?list=PL6A0DDC005EAF991F

https://youtu.be/c0t1-DxX5Ew?list=PL6A0DDC005EAF991F

Just for the record, some very nice albums of Donald Byrd have not been mentioned in previous posts. Will post a couple. Again, Byrd with Silver,
on 'Byrd's Eye View'

https://youtu.be/9E3-z7-hlh8

Imho 'Royal Flush' is also a fine effort with some great playing

https://youtu.be/7c6tzCXrqTc

There are couple more, all from early years, that I like, but its a quite long post already. Hope you will like it

Alex, Donald Byrd has one of the longest records in jazz history of producing consistent high quality jazz albums; but even when he left the "jazz reservation" he was still producing high quality music. Such a long record makes it easy to overlook some of his best.

I'm enjoying this "Paul Chambers" album big time; that's because I don't have it in my collection. Chambers perspective on this album takes me back to a more laid back time. My ability to go back in time, enables me to enjoy jazz much more than someone who can only hear through a present, 2016 perspective; someone who was not only alive at that time, but was quite active in listening to and collecting jazz, can surround themselves with scenes of the jazz nightclubs, and events at that time.

Middle 50,s to 61, was the time John Wright's album "South Side Soul", depicts the south side of Chicago; and to this day, they honor him and his album, on a certain day in the summer; that's because all they have left of that place and time is his album; that's the power of music.

When I go back to that time and place in Chicago, I enjoy the music that was created then, so much more.


Enjoy the music.

I just recieved a Grant Green CD, titled "His Majesty King Funk", and there is a picture of Grant Green that looks like the Grant Green I remember; anyway, this reads as follows:

"Throughout the Seventies and Eighties, Grant Green had become the forgotten man of jazz guitar. Overshadowed by such virtuosos as, first, Wes Montgomery, and later George Benson, Green was reduced to performing pop material with mediocre groups at the time of his death in 1979.

Some of his best recordings remained unissued until the Eighties, and were then only available in Japan in limited quanties."


That explains a lot of things for me; I've got all of these boss CD's by Grant Green, now the question is "Why aren't they LP's"? That's the way so many other people that I have in my collection are, the point is, if these albums were made back when, why didn't I have them in my collection "back when". This also coincides with some clown on "Agon" that's been saying that Grant Green had albums that couldn't be released because they were substandard. That also goes a long way to explain his economic troubles.

Right now, steam is coming out of both ears, so I'm not going to expand on the above paragraph; I'm going to put the CD in, and hear what it sounds like.


Enjoy the music.

 

I belive you will find it pleasing. I have that album for a long time now (edition with Donald Byrd's album on single cd) and I like it. I even like that Byrds alubum, no matter that on moments it sounds more like a soul/pop effort, melodies are quite 'catchy', still there are some fine playing.
Green
https://youtu.be/Dce3qcQ6qeE
Byrd
https://youtu.be/4oRJpv-SAb4

This is good party music, not great Jazz.  I always heard a sameness to all this 'soul-Jazz', esp if it was heavy on guitar and B-3.  Not much different from R&B.   Just better musicianship.


Please don't say when you listened to this you could see yourself on the March in Selma. :)  No jammin' there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dce3qcQ6qeE&list=PL8RdfaZOB1PIS6UQv66jbDoDuTuAv-Ksu

If there was money to be made, his music would have been released on LP.  Remember Talks and walks?

The notes you quote state why his stuff was not released.  Wes et al.

Cheers

Money in whose pocket Grant Greens or Blue Note?
Business people have devious ways of figuring the bottom line

Enjoy the music.

Rok, I was listening to Grant Green before Blue Note ever heard the name, and he never made no sub standard music then, why should he come to Blue Note and make sub-standard music? Besides, that's what somebody on "Agon" said Blue Note Said, in regard to sub-standard music.

I've got all the factors, I've added, subtracted, multiplied, divided, taken the square root of the denominator, and the answer is; Grant got screwed, and that's all I got to say about that; next subject.


Enjoy the music.

****I'm going to put the CD in, and hear what it sounds like.****

What does it sound like?

Frogman, Alex has it posted, and you can listen for yourself. I'm listening to it at this moment; Grant Greens guitar is boss.

Enjoy the music.

Alex, I haven't heard the entire CD, only what you got posted, and I certainly don't regret I bought the CD.

I bought some of Byrd's music thinking it was jazz way back then, and it was like someone turning up a bottle of wine, and tasting whisky; or someone turning up a bottle of whiskey, and tasting wine; either way, they would spit it out.

I just ordered some of the same music that I took back, and I might order more. No it's not jazz, but I like it; that's because I can accept it for what it is; it's wine, and I wanted whiskey at that time, but now that I know it's wine, I think it's some pretty good wine; speaking of which, I think I will have a glass. If it was possible, I would offer you one too.


Enjoy the music.

It's been over 24 hours since I posted "Cape Verdeen Blues" by Mr. Horace Tavares Silver, and no one has posted in regard to that album. I'm going to assume that means the evaluation and review of Mr. Silver is concluded.

It has come to my attention that we have only reviewed known jazz divas, and other well known divas of various genres, with the exclusion of one of my favorite female vocalists, Ms. Dusty Springfield; therefore I will post a couple of my favorite tunes by her; "Since I Fell For You" and "The Look Of Love"; she sings these tunes in a fashion that makes my heart cry.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kYYEpIumCo





    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPkp-pCJYCc




Enjoy the music.

Grant Green was a great jazz guitarist and I really like many of his recordings.  However, it would be foolish to think that every player can play in every style equally well; few can.  Personally, I don't feel that Grant Green's playing in "soul-jazz", "funk", "whatever one wants to call it" style is on the same level as that of the two other guitarists mentioned, George Benson and Wes Montgomery.  That's not to say that his efforts in that style were not good; simply that they weren't as convincing as those of other players playing that style.  I don't know why Blue Note didn't release some of his records after recording them, but I can surmise:

Grant Green's "His Majesty King Funk" was, in fact, released the same year that it was recorded (on lp of course).  This was the same time period that George Benson was making quite a name for himself with Brother Jack McDuff and his own "Cookbook".  It's a good record and as Alex points out has some catchy tunes.  But it's not a great record, regardless of style, and it has some problems; some of which have nothing to do with Green.  The rhythm section is not as tight as others in that style and they sound a little sloppy, and Harold Vick on tenor was a bad choice imo, sounding weak and unconvincing.  This record is on Verve and I have not heard the Blue Note recordings that O-10 refers to, but if this Verve recording is any indication of what some of those Blue Notes are like, I can see the powers that be at Blue Note deciding that those records simply couldn't compete in the marketplace with records and younger players like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL911F2BE54808509A&params=OAFIAVgL&v=6ILWPfmIvys&mode=N...

To me, this is simply better playing in the funk/soul-jazz style, all the way around (George Benson was 21!):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J-_ccqV-AdU

***** I'm going to assume that means the evaluation and review of Mr. Silver is concluded.******

Not so fast my friend.   You have not even mentioned some of his best LPs / CDs.  Examples:

Blowin' The Blues Away
Six Pieces of Silver
The Tokyo Blues
etc......

I am currently listening to "In Pursuit of the 27th Man".  Will report tomorrow.

And you can't leave Silver without mentioning the Dee Dee Disc.

There is a reason folks don't get into the giants,  it's just too much.  Wanna try Ellington?

Cheers

Soul Jazz:

May I recommend Houston Person and Joey DeFrancesco.   Can't have Soul-Jazz without great Sax play.

Cheers

Sorry, forgot the clips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gs_CL7fLkQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhwTv9M8

Cheers

Frogman, that record had absolutely nothing to do with the discussion concerning "Blue Note".

It's quite evident that you know almost nothing about Grant Green; maybe you should read over the music posts.


Enjoy the music.

Qdrone, this is about Grant Greens music; it wasn't necessary for us to know about Grant Greens habit.
orpheus10
2,793 posts
01-23-2011 10:51am

Qdrone, could you name the stuff to avoid, I would like to buy it.
qdrone
799 posts
01-23-2011 1:29pm
Anything that says never released or only released in Japan. Or in box sets where you have newly discovered tracks (Mosiac has one or two sets with Green) I actualy posted for everyone to understand the times these recordings were made,heroin was problem among many musicians,I'm sorry that your so full of yourself that you thought i was just responding to you.


Well now that Mr. Qdrone, has told you what records to avoid, maybe you can evaluate those records and get back to me, Mr. Frogman.



Enjoy the music.

Frogman, I believe that Green’s playing can not be chronologically divided on jazz (ante ’soul’) and post ’jazz’ period. I have just checked some of the dates where he played in that style on others people albums, like with Lou Donaldson, and its obvius that while on his solo projects he was in ’jazz’ , on other occasions he was already in ’soul jazz’ or what ever we should call it, and those albums were recorded as early as 1962. like ’Natural Soul’.

https://youtu.be/o4tIhsfcxyM

Probably the ’jazz scene’ was never so pure, or it was bigger than the audience, so there was no big enough market to sustain all that. I guess that is one of the reasons that contributed to change in styles (for worst,imho) in years to come.
As for George Benson, I was never his fan. This would be my pick. If I have not mentioned him before, this is a must opportunity. Here is the link

Ivan Joe Jones

https://youtu.be/kUVNIJl6h38

https://youtu.be/8PleEvRgGOc

https://youtu.be/sOiPlxCqXUA

As for jazz ’purists’ among us, (meaning Rok this time) I am posting this two next clips, of two (in fact three ) great albums that everyone should have.

First is called ’Best Coast Jazz’ from 1954.with Clifford Brown and all star group. Here is the link

https://youtu.be/YCwPup7mmJA

From the same session, it can be found one single edition now, because of length they were cut on two lp’s.

https://youtu.be/w5BGbjqUWns

And if that is not enough for this jazzy Sunday, here is another album.
It is Johnny Griffins ’Studio Jazz Party’ from 1960.
Hope you will like it.
Frogman, before you look who plays the trumpet, tell me how do you like it

https://youtu.be/Wu0qnePU3Os

https://youtu.be/cpYIQZtMlNE

https://youtu.be/2XhNT9YaEsc

O-10, I expected a contentious rebuttal to my comments from you; or, at least, one with an "edge".  I will not get into another pointless and unpleasant dispute about a player that you obviously have a personal affinity for and, as a result, cannot deal with anything other than glowing commentary.  You missed the thrust of my comments which have everything to do with Blue Note and the comments by Rok about the business interests of record labels and how they make decisions on what to release and when.  The obvious rebuttal to your comment "that record has absolutely nothing to do with BN" is: then why did you, after talking about that record and quoting it's liner notes, go on a rant about BN?  Once again, I wished that instead of knee jerk reactions there would be discussion about the SUBSTANCE of comments.  Bottom line for me is stated very well by the very liner notes you quote, no conspiracy theory and no "getting screwed" by a record label:

****(Grant Green was) Overshadowed by such virtuosos as, first, Wes Montgomery, and later George Benson, ****

End of story.

Don't let one man's opinion from 5 years ago worry you. Today has it's own worries.

The Grant Green Mosaic box set with Sonny Clark is one of the releases that mostly came from Japan. It is highly regarded.

There will always be people with a different opinion than you. Some are just haters and others just get off on different music. I love some music that others don't even consider music. So what? 🙃

Alex, I don't disagree with anything you wrote; except the implication that I was saying otherwise about chronology.  I know you are not a fan of Benson, but he was not "my pick" as concerns this discussion; he was mentioned by the writer in the liner notes that O-10 quoted as one of the players that "overshadowed" Green.  

"Bugaloo Jones": New to me.  VERY NICE!  Love his sound and feel.  Very funky.  Fabulous!  Thanks for those clips; and they make my point about players' ability to play in a certain style.  This is definitely his musical home turf and he does it on a level that, imo, Grant Green does not.  What I hear in Jones' playing is an understanding of the feel of "rock and roll" which was, obviously, a force to contend with at the time and something that would have an impact on a player's appeal.  I don't know much about his playing, but I also don't hear much that tells me he could play in other styles (straight ahead jazz) as well.

What made Benson special was his rare ability to play credibly in any style, his virtuosity, he can sing; and, as concerns "marketability" and whether we like or not, he looks good.  We can criticize the reasons that record labels have for promoting certain artists more than others all we want, but I think we should always remember that if a label does not succeed NO ONE benefits.

****Probably the ’jazz scene’ was never so pure, or it was bigger than the audience, so there was no big enough market to sustain all that. I guess that is one of the reasons that contributed to change in styles (for worst,imho) in years to come.****

Very true.  Except, imho, the "for worst" part; but, only inasmuch as it is, as always, an inevitable change.  This is the part that I think is often missed about the changes in jazz, music in general, and art as a whole.  It HAS to change and it WILL change.  As always, it all reflects the changing cultural climate; and how we each feel about that change is a reflection of who we are as individuals.  This is true for artists as well as listeners.  That is why artists seldom do their best work late in their careers; they have a voice or style that often does not stay as relevant in a changing social climate.  It is the rare artist who can ride that wave of change with consistently high quality music.  

Well said, Acman3.

Alex, one of my favorite tenor players (The Little a Giant); will never forget hearing him live at the Village Vanguard back in the ’80s. I listened to your clips while I wrote my previous posts and here my impressions of the trumpet player; you have my word that I did not "peak":

Nice player with a very nice time feel with a vocabulary not quite as wide as some of other players. I would say he listened to a lot of Lee Morgan as he has a similar swagger in his time feel. Reminded me of a player you posted previously and I couldn’t remember his name. In fairness, since you posed a challenge to identify the player, I suspected that it may be one of the "forgotten ones". Please keep in kind that, for better or worse, as a musician I listen for certain things that are telltale and may not be important to other listeners (nor should they necessarily be). Here’s why he reminded me of that other player: This trumpet player plays consistently a little flat in pitch and is what brass players call a little "fracky"; his note attacks are not always the cleanest. Listen to the unison lines with the tenor saxophone in "Low Gravy" (particularly at the end of the tune); intonation is not that great. Still, very nice player and I really like his time feel. My comments may seem more critical that they are meant to be, but you did ask 😎