Jazz for aficionados
Ok Frogman, and Rok; we're going to move on, that's fine with me, I have no problem avoiding reality. I bought that LP Sahara when it came out. It took Tyner and Trane to make the Coltrane sound; consequently, when you hear Tyner, you also hear Trane in your mind. I like "Inner Voices" also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDMnSIedk-c&list=PL4T6xBFLnigsWD2gl9UPfjUx1zOWosIWZ Enjoy the music. |
Heroin Video: I am not sure I get the point you are trying to make, unless, it's that drugs and addicts are found everywhere. if so, you have no argument here. It's all tragic. A few observations: The two women stated that the deaths of family members triggered their use of Heroin. They were so distraught. I think she mentioned an Aunt. We have all suffered those losses. A lot closer than Aunts. I never thought heroin was any sort of answer, and only a very weak minded person would. I think it was all BS. Where were the parents when they begin to hang with the wrong crowd? Where were the parents when they dropped out of school? Stress? How much stress can a upper middle class teenager have? Not being able to provide food for your children, That's Stress!! Deaths: 185 in a little less than a year. I think Chicago averages about 500+ per year. Murders that is. Drugs have been around as long as Man has. In the rural areas it's Meth. That's worst than heroin. They get no help or publicity at all. BTW, we now know that the German Army was on Meth during the war. No wonder they could go non-stop. There is nothing new under the sun. Cheers |
This is stress. I cannot even listen to it anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tSV6nNTGO8 Cheers |
Rok, I'm not trying to make any kind of point, just observations. There is something drastically wrong, and no one is providing any real answers as to WHY? Once upon a time, we had sociologists, they went to college, and studied to give us answers for these types of events. I remember when we had "sociologists", they were replaced with "Law and Order", "Lock em up and throw away the key". Do you remember that? I have a question, why is heroin so cheap? In the past, we have looked at everything through the prism of 'race', apparently that's not a good idea, but this is a music forum, so I'll get back to the music. Acman, and others have accused us of being locked in a time warp, perhaps this is true, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing musicians of the 60's. I'm going to find some current music for us to discuss, Frogman said, like, and don't like is not sufficient in regard to responses to music. Since I'm not a musician, I can't give responses that a musician would give, but I'll do better than "Yes and no". Since I heard the name "Snarky Puppy", this is the best I can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lflkj9CRTe0&list=PLqtUSqMDbdx7iJllRgw6ZNMv27Zs92ftl Enjoy the music. |
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I remember when we had "sociologists", they were replaced with "Law and Order", "Lock em up and throw away the key". Do you remember that?***** Well obviously the "Sociologists" failed!! If trained professionals can't help drug addicts, why would anyone think the US Government can? Prevention is the key, cause there ain't no cure. Cheers |
Acman, These are highly trained musicians; some of whom may have gone to Juilliard. Whether or not they are playing jazz is not Germane, due to the evolution of music from the time when jazz was definitive till now, but I liked it. The bottom line question is whether or not an individual will buy this music, and my answer is, "not at the moment", but that could change. Enjoy the music. |
Alex, "For Green as for Brooks, the suppression of income and reputation brought on spiraling misfortunes and reduced him to beggary." This is according to Jack Chambers's WHO KILLED TINA BROOKS? Many of Grant's recordings were not released during his lifetime. These include McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones (also part of the Solid group) performing on Matador (also recorded in 1964), and several albums with pianist Sonny Clark. In 1966 Grant left Blue Note and recorded for several other labels, including Verve. From 1967 to 1969 Grant was, for the most part, inactive due to personal problems and the effects of heroin addiction. In 1969 Grant returned with a new funk-influenced band. His recordings from this period include the commercially successful Green is Beautiful and the soundtrack to the film The Final Comedown. Grant spent much of 1978 in hospital and, against the advice of doctors, went back on the road to earn some money. While in New York to play an engagement at George Benson's Breezin' Lounge, Grant collapsed in his car of a heart attack in New York City on January 31, 1979. He was buried in Greenwood Cemetery in his hometown of St. Louis, Missouri, and was survived by six children. Since Green's demise, his reputation has grown and many compilations of both his earlier (post-bop/straight ahead and soul jazz) and later (funkier/dancefloor jazz) periods, exist. Enjoy the music. |
Cory was from the Church also, but not as a singer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l0xppLcgl4 He is the keyboard player for Snarky Puppy. |
O-10, I thought you were moving on; I guess not. I appreciate your passion about this topic and I appreciate passion about any relevant topic even when its misguided. I was not "evading" anything, but simply trying to stay on the subject of music. Moreover, as I have pointed out several times before there is no need for you to be so antagonistic; it certainly will not promote good dialogue. I watched your clip on the heroin epidemic and I must say I agree with every word that Rok wrote in his comments about it. For me, it all boils down to two words: personal responsibility or the lack thereof. There are always two general points of views or attitudes about this sort of thing: 1. The attitude that holds on to the idea that all of society's ills (including those of the music business) are something that are being perpetrated on its citizens and that promotes the mindset that the citizen is owed a solution to every problem, and 2. The attitude that seeks to uplift and increase awareness through personal responsibility as much as possible and promotes the mindset of looking inward to find the answer to one's problems. For crying out loud, if the first time the mother in that video noticed that her daughter had a problem was when she actually saw her shooting heroin, she wasn't paying nearly enough attention to her daughter. The reason that there is a heroin "epidemic" today is not that it is cheap and kept cheap by diabolical pushers or business interests, it is because more and more people are desperate to find a way to fill the void in themselves caused by the absence of family unity and spirituality ( and real music?) in their lives; the absence of a sense of purpose caused by a society that promotes the thinking that we are entitled to more and more of what previously was our individual responsibility to attain. Going back to music: acknowledging the very real issues around race that many of our music heroes had to sadly endure, the truth is that many of them, as is the case today, were their own worst enemies and led lifestyles that were not conducive to stable lives. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OjFxEwyPknc Probably the greatest singer to ever live; imo, of course: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QzRS2HKmL1s |
***** Rok, what albums do you have with Tina Brooks as a side man? ***** As leader:
As a sideman:
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Acman, There's a lot of truth in what you said about this generational thing in regard to hearing new music, but now I've discovered there's a Joker in the deck; let me explain. I had been wandering why I didn't have some of Grant Green's records, and it's because they were not released at the time they were recorded. Now I've got to find Tina Brooks recordings, this keeps me looking backward as opposed to forward. Enjoy the music. |
Tina Brooks is stated as sideman on three Kenny Burrell's albums, among those, I would certainly recommend this one... I am sure that Orpheus will love the parts where Timmons is playing https://youtu.be/1RJAvhfo4Ws Frogman, speaking of drug abuse, the answer is never simple, but I am sure that when there is 'epidemic' spread, than it must be conected to the establishment. I am not refering to the sources from popular culture, as now often we can see a main stream movie that speaks about conections between 'state' and crime in some period when 'black' funding was od special interest to some services because of some 'higher' goal. My experience is rather from first hand, 25 years ago, when my country was in armed conflict (war, bloody, but on limited scale) with its neighbours. In those times, heroin abuse spread like flew. No way in hell that it could be 'accident' or caused by rather gloomy prospects of future of some folks. Even more, my home town, which was never part of actual conflict, had a highest rate of users in a country. I think that first rule of bussines is that you must create a demand, and than you can sell the product. It took couple of years until the rave or techno ( the only good thing about it) music has become a major trend, than heroin became a drug that was considered 'out of fashion' and was replaced with other synthethic drugs, like ectasy, but not before it killed (one way or another) quite a lot young people. So, like Rok said, the only way is to prevention, but when somebody flows the streets with cheap and powerfull stuff, there are lots of people that will hook on it. What puzzles me, (reading about it, in US) is that story about heroin and its effects is known and notorius, and yet, still there are people who will risk their lifes by tasting it. Its not my intention to comment political events in your country, but US is certainly a country with lots of illogical things, from a European perspective. Maybe the best way to look the cause of such things is to understand who profits from it, on larger scale of things Anyway, back to jazz. Maybe we should start to post albums that were not issued on time on their recording, but later, for reasons that we will never know for sure. Here is album of Bobby Hutcherson,'The Kicker' with same personal that recorded Grant Green's Idle moments. This album was released many years later. https://youtu.be/kv8I3QzIqQc |
Alex, as always, very thoughtful post. We are in agreement. The "establishment" usually has a hand in everything; and there will always be many many "everythings" that a person has to contend with. My point is that by focusing on personal responsibility and not on dependence on the establishment is the way for the individual to have the best chance of avoiding the problem. There is a conspiratorial-thinking idea among very conservative groups in this country that feels that the "establishment" has an agenda in the recent move towards the legalization of marijuana in order to keep the populace stoned and incapable of clear thinking. Whether it is true or not is not as important as the fact that by being (and raising) the type of person that will not fall prey to it is the best antidote. Regards. |
For the record, again, A huge part of my listening is to older Jazz, and I do not care if another individual wants to listen to the " Golden Years of Jazz" all the time, or chase after new music. Other than I can't purchase your used music at the Record Store, if you never buy it, it has absolutely no effect on my life, and if you are happy, Great! If it suits you, It tickles me plum to death. The only time, as I recall, we have had a problem is when "people" who love the "Golden Years" talk about how the new music and musicians suck, because they are different sounding from the great Jazz musicians of the past. |
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heroin is cheaper than marijuana.***** So what? Are you saying if the price keeps dropping, you will start using it. A price too good to pass up? We all know the dangers of drug use, ignorance is no longer an excuse. Stupid people take drugs. That's why they call it 'dope'. (from a drug ad) BTW, there are many countries with no drug problem. They don't lock them up and throw the key away. They put them up against a wall and blow them away. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. Esp that purple stuff. Cheers |
It's orpheus's fault, he told us their was a world wide heroin epidemic, and he also told us that heroin comes from AFGHANISTAN, but we didn't believe him. He also told us that heroin is cheaper than a six pack, and we know that can't be true. But most importantly we didn't connect the dots in regard to AFGHANISTAN, and heroin. |
Well, gee, O-10, thanks so much for the kind words. Why you are intent on being unpleasant and disagreeable is a mystery to me. Pray tell, just what is "dumb" about what I commented on? I was responding to a comment from Alex about drug use in general, so what exactly is "dumb" about commenting on a related issue concerning marijuana use? Don’t flatter yourself thinking that I would bother "making" anything of what, apparently, you think are your many "mistakes". The problem here is that instead of using this forum as a way to discuss music and other issues you are after some sort of validation. Now, let’s have some fun and talk about dumb comments (yes, it’s come to this 😣) about a very sad topic: Average cost of one dose of heroin: $15-20 (a serious habit: $150-200/day) Average cost of a six pack of Budweiser in my area: about $7-8 Average cost of one marijuana joint: about $2-3 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj3bCXViNNM |
Brooks was also involved in the music for THE CONNECTION a play about drug addiction. Music by Freddie Redd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5A2TIf1kpY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfes2Wptxx8&list=PLB3EDB18A1DDE1D6D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3X5J_wGHrw Cheers |
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Probably the greatest singer to ever live; imo, of course:***** I notice you did not limit or put him a box, by putting an qualifier before the word 'singer', and you are absolutely correct not to do so. Just think, this man changed Country Music. Great performance. Had never heard it before. Thanks Cheers |
I had a Freddie Reddd recording of the Connection, which was in to bad of shape to listen to when I bought it. It did have a lot of dialogue , so it must have been a different version. Finally tossed it. :0( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frOgv6UNGiA |
****I notice you did not limit or put him a box,**** On purpose. Not only because he was, as you point out, much more than a blues and R&B singer, but I can't think of any singer in ANY genre that could sing more deeply from the heart than Ray; unbelievable sense of time and phrasing. Truly a genius. Nice clips of Brooks as sideman. I particularly like the Freddie Hubbard clip. One of my favorite records and hard to believe that Freddie was 21(!) when he recorded it. I think Brooks rose to the occasion and was inspired by the the high level of players on that session; his best playing of the three clips. McCoy sounds great, and so....un-McCoy and straight ahead. He joined Trane that very year and his style went in a very different direction. Speaking of Trane. I posted one of these a long time ago. Gotta love YouTube; two of my favorite clips ever. Trane and Getz. Talk about contrasting styles; both great and so different. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pc6CWfBgIt8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=beCGdmrP8Xc |
Hi O-10 - I saw the link to Previn playing a Mozart concerto. That is interesting, as I don't believe I have ever heard his classical piano playing, or if I have it was way back when I was in school, and I don't remember. I honestly do not know when I will have time to sit down and listen to that entire clip. Things are kind of crazy for me work-wise, and I have very little free time. I saw it too late tonight to check it out tonight, but the next time I know I'm going to spend at least a half hour on my computer I will check it out and get back to you - I just can't promise that it will be this week. |
The Government / CIA conspiracy exposed at last!! http://www.aol.com/article/2016/03/21/flight-attendant-flees-la-airport-cocaine-found-in-bags/213314... O-10 you were right. Cheers |
Alex, thanks for the Bobby Hutcherson clip. In answer to the question of why it wasn’t released sooner, apparently the producer Cuscuna felt, at first, that it was a disappointing session. Why? Who knows; but nothing diabolical or conspiratorial. This is not a criticism at all, but once again the influence of Miles’ "Kind Of Blue" shines through. Recorded a couple of years after KOB, I can easily imagine this tune on that record; VERY similar vibe (pun intended 😉). |
Senor Blues: This has been posted before, but it's just so wonderful. Love all the solos. esp the Trumpet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4BC3vErvpc Arranged by Carlos Henriquez. Could he be the heir apparent at Lincoln Center? His arrangements seem to be featured often. Cheers |
Other versions of "Step Lightly"; great tune written by Joe Henderson. This one is more uptempo than Hutcherson's and as a result has a little less of the very relaxed and introspective KOB vibe. It too wasn't relesed for years after it was recorded (1963), it was nevertheless released much sooner (1980). Blue Mitchell sounds fabulous!: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUmG-7G20eE The composer himself leading his big band on an arrangement of the tune. Notice that the tempo is more relaxed and closer to the tempo on the Hutcherson version, but still not quite as relaxed. Right in between the tempos of the other two versions. As is often said, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L6HfJLltdQg For anyone interested, the Hutcherson version clocks in @ 114 bpm on the metronome, the Mitchell @ 118 and the Henderson @ 116 (right in the middle). May seem like small differences, but they can completely change the vibe of a performance. |
A little while ago, the question was asked whether the comments and facial expressions of approval by players directed at a soloist are sincere. In the case of JALC (and most others) they absolutely are. Even more so, there is no better sign of approval as when a soloist "picks up" where the previous soloist "left off". Notice how on "Señor Blues", Rampkin (trumpet) starts his solo (@ 4:17) with EXACTLY the same musical figure as the one that Goines (sop sax) ends his solo with, and then develops his solo with that melodic idea; classic motivic development improvisation. This may seem "academic", but is what great jazz players do; always listening and reacting to what goes on around them. Great band, great tune and nice arrangement (although I think Ted Nash is the best arranger in the band). Heir apparent? Maybe. Can’t imagine JALC without Wynton who is not that much older than most of those guys ’though, and I’m sure LC would do anything to keep him. Speaking of Joe Henderson, the second tune on the clip is Joe's tune "Recorda me", arranged by Ted Nash. Amazing amount of talent in that band. |
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Rampkin (trumpet) starts his solo (@ 4:17) with EXACTLY the same musical figure as the one that Goines (sop sax) ends his solo with, and then develops his solo with that melodic idea; classic motivic development improvisation. ***** Listened again, had to laugh out loud. Great info. I love it when you provide this type of insight. Cheers |
Carlos Henriquez is having a banner year! Aside from being Wynton Marsalis’s current bassist of choice, he released his 1st solo record; The Bronx Pyramid, and it’s outstanding! https://youtu.be/Z7SzZjSbZmY He’s also the bassist on Maestro Paquito D’Rivera’s latest; Paquito & Manzanero (PDR Plays The Music Of Armando Manzanero). Another stellar recording from the Paq Man! The band also feartures the drummer of the moment; Antonio Sanchez. Really beautiful work by all involved, chk it out! https://youtu.be/xVaMgO1malI |
