Need to build a new crossover for my Tannoy Monitor Red. My first choice for inductor is Mundorf Copper Air , M-Coil CFC. But it don't have the value I need and so I have to ask Mundorf to custom made it for a price. Then I found the Jantzen Copper Wax Coil, which looks fancy and cheaper. However, Can't find any review online.
I am wondering if anyone has experience with these coil and which is better?
Two weeks ago I received Jantzen Wax Coil 14 AWG inductors.
My Altec 604E speakers are super sensitive, so I decided 14AWG should be good enough.
Break-in takes a lot of time. In the beginning the sound was similar to my vintage Altec iron core inductors. The single major difference was much less congestion on complex music with the Jantzen inductor.
After a small amount of time dynamics and resolution improved. But the sound was lacking bass. Then the bass amount increased but height frequencies increased even more. Sound is still continuing to change.
How long does it take a full break in of Jantzen Wax Coil 14AWG inductors?
I like https://www.partsconnexion.com/ but they don’t sell inductors that I interest for Jantzen Wax Coils and Mundorf MCoil VLCU Paper Copper Film Inductors.
I experienced one paradox. I have Altec 604E speakers. I used DIY German crossover built with autotransformer. The LPF iron core inductor DCR was 0.2 Ohm.
Now I use n-1500 crossover with original old iron core inductor DCR = 0.32 Ohm and different modern PIO capacitors and Duelund resistors.
Bass reproduction with German DIY crossover was bloated. Despite higher inductor DCR, bass reproduction with n-1500 is much more controlled, textured and detailed. I just want to add n-1500 has around +3dB output on 5K-10K vs German DIY crossover, that can be an important factor.
Absolute low DC resistance in a coil is not always a good thing.
A good crossover designer builds that into his design, and altering the DCR can alter the crossover. It's often a beneficial thing in that lit becomes part of the work to balances efficiency for bass output.
Alter the DCR of the woofer coil and you alter the system balance.
Alter the ESR of a capacitor going to ground and you can introduce some really odd impedance curve behavior.
We can upgrade the tweeter and woofer wiring easily enough. The midrange is made up of 14 forward firing tweeters on each cabinet, 28 in total, and a harness of some kind. Also, they may be in an enclosure, don’t know. There is a rear firing tweeter and mid also, but I am not concerned about that. I am considering whether to upgrade the wire for the woofer and tweeter drivers, but not the mids. If unpleasant, go back to stock. I have Cardas Clear Beyond speaker cables and access to synergistic Cardas hookup wire with similar geometry. The hookup wire was used in later model Merlin speakers and was also part of an upgrade package.
If the Mundorf coils with paper (specifically MCoil VLCU Copper Foil Paper) is available in 9 AWG (and assuming not too thick of a conductor at 9 AWG) while the Duelund CAST inductors are 12 AWG, I wonder which of the two sounds better, and how much better, in the bass and perhaps also midrange sections. I know Duelund is more costly but am not terribly sensitive to cost unless the improvement is minor, and there may be a long wait time for Duelund inductors. A friend checked recently and was told close to a year.
12 gauge all the way. I have tried 16 and 12 gauge, and the 12 sounded better in every possible way. The difference in cost is nothing for an $18k speaker :)
I think anything over 12 gauge might be overkill, but then again I have seen others claim otherwise. Mundorf has a 70mm wide inductor, comes out as 10 gauge which might be a good option.
Jantzen 10 gauges are thicker foils, which I would stay away from.
You have some very nice speakers, hopefully I get to listen to pair one of these days.
Yuviarora, thanks! Do you have any perspective as to optimal gauge (AWG) of inductor? I am hearing via audiocircle that 12 gauge sounds better than 14 gauge on the midrange section. Resistance is lower so it will not match the original if the original is higher gauge, but not so much lower that it materially changes dB levels.
in the woofer section, lower gauge than 12 AWG could possibly be better still. The poster felt that two 12 AWG inductors = 9 AWG would be better than an 8 or 9 AWG inductor. Two 12 AWG inductors of 1mH each in parallel does not equal 2 mph, though.
That poster seems to have posted some info that others more reputable did not agree with, so his posts have uncertain reliability. Nothing absurd, just small stuff.
@gererickHonestly, I can only go by what others have said, they are supposed to be the best inductors on the market. I have extensive experience with Duelund capacitors and they are worth every penny. Their performance for me has been phenomenal.
I will be getting some Magnepan 20.7s at some point this coming year, and of course I'll leave some impressions...till then it's fingers crossed.
Yuviarora, I assume you are, in your next project, using the Duelund CAST inductors? Any idea how they’ll perform vs the Jantzen wax based on speaking with others, or will you not know until you try?
By plastic, I mean the Polypropylene used to insulate the foil capacitors.
Both the Mundorf and Jantzen wax are amazing inductors...but for me, that paper housing has a more vintage/analogue sound, and the background is jet black.
You will not go wrong with either to be honest......Mundorf also makes a papper coil capacitor, that is encased in paper and a proprietary resin.
On my next speaker project, I will be getting some Duelund inductors, and all Duelund foil capacitors to do my crossover.
I agree with @yuviarora—-crossover inductors make a massive difference in sound quality. People like to swap caps but rarely do you hear comments about coil comparisons. In my high efficiency speakers with 12db crossovers, I have tried quite a few coils and I ended up with different types for the woofer and midrange/tweeter. On the woofer I prefer Solen 14g Perfect Lay air cores which have a warm, rich, dynamic sound. On the midrange/tweeter I prefer JantZen 15g Air-Core (solid wire); in this spot the Solen Perfect-Lay sounds too soft. I have also tried JantZen 14g C-Coil toroids which can sound pretty good on woofers but too edgy with mids and tweets. JantZen iron core with discs are nice and cheap but too edgy and fuzzy. I tried a number of foil inductors and didn’t like any of them. Vintage iron coils are too edgy.
I haven’t tried the new JantZen wax coils. From the description in this thread that’s now on my list of things to try.
Timely posts for me! I purchased both Jantzen Litz wire wax and Jantzen solid wire inductors some time ago as final mods for my Klipschorn crossovers. Can't recall exactly why I purchased both solid wire and litz wax wire, seems I remember something about litz being preferable to solid for tweeters, or maybe I have it backwards. Can anyone inform me as to preferences here?
Yuviarora, interesting. I am considering Jantzen wax coils versus Mundorf, but don’t know what you mean by “Mundorf plastic coils “. Mundorf’s best foil air core is “Copper Foil Paper”, is that the one you mean?
If your hearing is bad and/or your system lacks resolution, you don’t need a fancy inductor. If you want your speakers to sound good, have a natural sound and resolve detail, you need a fancy inductor.
ADD: The main difference between the two is in their Timbre. Jantzen wax sounds rich and velvety, perfect for jazz, acoustic and classical. The Mundorf sounds drier and faster in comparison, good for EDM/trance. Both are copper foils, the housing makes a pretty dramatic difference in the sound both produce. If money is not an issue, Duelund Cast is the best inductor on the market.
Inductors make a MASSIVE difference in sound quality, as much as capacitors. The Jantzen Wax Coils are dead silent and have a black background, and have amazing dynamics. Get the 12 gauge version...
I know this post is 5 years old, but I had to correct the record. And yes, the wax coils are a serious upgrade over the mundorf plastic coils. The plastic coils are noisy, they have a harsh ringing in comparison to the paper wax housing.
If the originals are air core and replaced with good quality air core with the same inductance and same dc resistance as the originals, I don’t think it matters too much.
But if you replace an iron core with an air core of the same inductance and dc resistance, then you "may" hear a difference, as an iron core will saturate earlier than an air core on big transients.
They sometimes use iron core chokes (coils) as a cost cutting (less copper needed) and for smaller physical size.
I have found the huge company Solen (French Cap) to be every bit as good as expensive "audiophile" caps. It wouldn't surprise me if they made them for these boutique companies. And you can get them in just about any value.
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