It is hard enough buying new speakers, let alone older speakers to use as an upgrade
The above subject title about the potential difficult in purchasing an older speaker, that is, a speaker that is at least 10-15 years old (and now discontinued) but garnered very good to excellent reviews when it came to market. I have often seen good reviews and personal recommendations for Linn's Magik 140 speaker and the Joseph Audio RM-25si Signature II. speaker, both approximately in the same or close to the same retail price, but no longer available.
It would be an audiophile's dream to have a small warehouse to store several of these overachievers so as to audition them. Another speaker, I have come across for sale on AG and elsewhere (and is far more expensive) is the Vandersteen Treo, a beautiful looking speaker that reviewed well, but was discontinued in favor of the Treo CT , and now I think the "Vandy" 5a Its main caveat like several of Vandersteen's models is difficulty getting the room placement dialed in as a consequence of the use of first order crossovers. The original Treo (used) would be at the outer limits of my budget,.... but how might the Linn and Joseph Audio speakers mentioned above, measure up in overall value.
Did Linn ever make a great loudspeaker? Did Joseph Audio ever make a bad loudspeaker?
You’re right about that warehouse dream. If only there were dealers that would be prepared to hire out speakers. If only we had more money. If only we knew what we wanted. If only all loudspeakers weren’t always a compromise.
Choosing loudspeakers is like choosing partners, but far easier to change.
The most effective thing to do is buy the speaker on the used market and sell it if it does not suit you. If you buy right it is like a home trial and not expensive.
the full extent of my laziness when it comes to checking out loudspeakers has gradually dawned on me.
For years I just checked out magazine reviews and made no effort to get out there and listen. Apart from one show in Manchester 10 years ago and a short trip to hear the Naim Ovator S 600 (with it’s BMR driver) I had done nothing until last weeks show in Leamington Spa.
However my experience there only confirmed my worst suspicions. I know it’s been said thousands of time before, but it’s undeniably true - in the end you have to listen for yourself. No amount of reading can give you anything more than a rough pointer (I guess it’s similar with cars).
But jperry’s advice could also be a great alternative strategy providing you have the space, time and resources. If I did, then I would keep my favourite speakers and just buy and try replacements in a second system.
As things stand I need to get out and listen to a few SOTA designs like Joseph Audio speakers, Linkwitz Labs 521s, or TD Eclipse 712z’s, and maybe something by Boenicke Audio. Even if I wasn’t intending to buy, I’m sure the effort would be worthwhile and memorable.
Sometimes the only way to hear a cerrain loudspeaker might be via private sellers who welcome an audition beforehand. Dealers can often only usually stock a handful of similar sounding models.
And definitely catch a few shows or launch next year.
@cd318 I strongly recommend a visit to Midland Audio X-change, in the fairly quaint village of Belbroughton, a little southwest of Birmingham. Fine listening space, and loads of hi-end speakers. You could easily spend the day.
I bought discontinued speakers (SF Auditor M’s) last year based on the strength of the reviews of users here on Audiogon. I’ve never heard them before buying although I had an idea on what to expect. I’m quite happy with how they sound in my house - either I’m lucky or not that picky.
I enjoy reading speaker reviews on forums but sometimes it’s difficult to understand whether the reviewer’s recommendation can apply to you. The difficulty of course is trying to unravel the confounding variables of personal preference and room acoustics.
Duckworp’s journey highlights this problem. He found a solution that worked for him but that’s not to say his choice would work for me or his other considerations would not work for someone else. Without question, his thoroughness allows others to narrow their selection and maybe that’s all you can hope for.
The idea that Vandersteen speakers are hard to incorporate in a room is very wrong. Richard gives very specific instruction....follow them to the letter...use his test tones, etc. and you'll be pleased. You can call him and speak to him directly (or he'll call back) if you have questions.
Its main caveat like several of Vandersteen's models is difficulty getting the room placement dialed in as a consequence of the use of first order crossovers.
Try ADS speakers...l1290 or l1590 are both nice towers...have the tweets and mids rebuilt by Richard Soo and you'll have a nice inexpensive set of speakers...I have a pair of both and really like them
To rpeluso: I read several times over a number of years about the placement problems created by first order crossover networks in terms a precise distance between listener and speakers.
To stringreen 4. Yes, I am sure Vandersteen is waiting by the phone to talk to customers
About 10 years ago, I purchased a new pair of his C1 speakers. I called him to explain the rake angle adjustment, and made the mistake of saying that the one page blue instruction manual sheet was unremarkable. Well, he got mad, and he took me to the woodshed for a verbal beating. Goes without saying, I was turned off, but after a few of my own adjustments to the speaker, they sounded good for the price range they were in at the time
To Elisabeth, Thanks for the advice, but I have more sense to have a 200 lbs pair of speakers shipped to the West Coast from New Jersey. As I mentioned to a seller of another pair of Vandy Treos posted on U.S..Audio Mart who lives in Illinois, the used audiophile market does not have an official return policy if you find that you either don't like the sound, or placement problems negate the full potential of the speakers.
Regarding, the Linn Magik 140 mentioned above....they retailed for $2995 in 2007, and the seller is asking $2000 for them. So that eliminates them. The Joseph Audio seller is 500 miles away, and his selling price is either a take it or leave decision for me
As jperry1 offered: buy the speakers, and if you don't like them, then sell them. Sounds like good advice, for speakers between $1000-$2000, but not for a $4000-$5000 speakers ( which generally I would think would be keepers)
One thing about older speakers , most likely the capacitors start drying out .as a rule of thumb. ,I always rebuild orhave assistance rebuilding the Xover, usually the entire Xover,for most companies use average parts at best, and wiring if not topgrade, and condition of drivers ,and brand ,for it may need to be replaced and you would need a driver that would fit the frequency response close to that driver. These are things to take into consideration .
@audioman58 , yes and then there's the question of foam surrounds. I'm not sure about modern variations but most of them used to start rotting after a decade or so.
Re-foaming a pair of 4-5K loudspeakers is not for the nervous of hand. Luckily, there are still some talented people out there able to do it to high standards.
setting the rake angle for the Vandersteen model 1 is the same as the venerable Apogee Stage. Hang a plumb line ( string and a washer will do ) and then measure per the graph in the manual. I set my pair up in my work room in 15 minutes, including unboxing, attaching the excellent sound anchors and tweaking toe in. With the Leica Disto, for the TREO CT in a new room with no previous stereo, I probably spent an hour including precise location of my listening chair away from wall nodes. @mr_m aka Tim can comment IF I got it right... the model 7 setup with disto, laser jig, Vandertones, etc is a couple of hour job with an assistant and no Margarita. The model 1 manual also includes an excellent explanation of power dissipation, spl and duty rating...
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