Is it me or new audio gear is too perfect and give ear fatigue?


Since getting back into the hobby during covid I’ve really enjoyed listening to music vs. bluetooth low quality speakers.  Since listening to my Nautilus 803 speakers with old Yamaha Amps (MX1, MX1000) they’ve been sweet sounding and warm.

A lot of people have said the new equipment is near perfect chasing specs, sounding bright and causing ear fatigue.

Curious if people feel the same?

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Well yes high order harmonic distortion is in fact a thing to avoid for that reason but if someone really believes ear fatigue due to high order harmonics is truly an inherent problem still in in practice then just stick to tubes old or new and choose your distortions there because truly good modern SS amplification gear is better at that than ever before.

Its like saying fatty food is bad for your health. Yes it is so just find the foods that aren’t. Then make sure to avoid their downsides too. Bottom line is there is more good  quality food that is good for your health available today than ever before. Why? Because people now care about that and science provides the means to make things better.

Ear fatigue is caused by higher ordered harmonic distortion that isn't masked by the music or lower ordered harmonics. 

My friend who is an audio hardware vendor told me the same thing yesterday. I was complaining about fatigue using a new product. 

 

Hopefully no surprise that it’s you. Nothing wrong with that. Different strokes. But has nothing to do with how theoretically good something is. Goodness is often a subjective determination in the mind of the beholder. But fact is from a pure technical perspective the best modern gear is in general miles ahead of things from the past. Objectively that is. Some people may hate that for whatever reason. It’s all good. We are all different. Personally, I am an Engineer and I value good engineering and find that always leads me in the right direction whereas otherwise it is a potshot. yMMV.

Speaking of Schiit DACs, I have a Bifrost II in my second system and I think it is a great value in it's price range. With some combinations of equipment I've found it a bight overly bright but currently sounds good.

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It certainly is very easy these days to build systems that have way too much high frequency energy and/or is fatiguing. The two are correlated but not equivalent - SOME gear has a perceived excess of treble / HF energy, but is of such a very high quality (and so smooth) that it doesn’t cause me fatigue. Some examples: Stax headphones like the SR-009, Ortofon’s high-end MCs: A90 / Windfeld Ti. That’s not typical though. And you still don’t want to stack multiple components like this, because the result will be musically unbalanced.

This behavior is definitely not just driven by room acoustics - it’s characteristic of the components themselves. I hear the same sonic footprint when I move a component into a buddy’s system. And of course headphones (which I have tons of experience with) don’t have this variable at all.

System matching, to ensure a good resulting balance, is crucial. This isn’t something you can reasonably glean from FR graphs or other measurements. I don’t know of a way other than trial & error.

@ghdprentice , soundstage and imaging is what I prefer.  I guess the late 70s equipment and some 80s is what floats my boat.  I have not gotten lucky to probably hear all equipment, I just stuck with brands that I remember and like.  With the internet, I can read more about vintage and new gear, also check on Youtube to hear how it sounds (compressed down).  There is something about those Pioneers SX receivers that has that imaging that keeps me engage to listening to music.

@carlsbad , agree, certain DACS are better sounding.  I also picked up a Freya +  I'm happy using the Schiit DAC and the Yamaha CDS2100 CD DAC.  Always wanted a pair of Thiel's to try.  I lust as the catalogs when they use to show his models of speakers.

Again, not trying to offend anyone on new gear, I just feel the specs are near perfect in the tonality.

For example, my current DAC is a Chinese DAC that measures extremely well.

@arize84 Topping makes some DACs that are quite smooth on top and measure well and are also inexpensive. High end audio is not driven by cost, its driven by intent. However even though a source might work just fine that says nothing about design issues in a power amp. For example if its lacking in gain bandwidth product and also has feedback it will sound bright and harsh at higher power levels. This is because the feedback will fall off at higher frequencies causing an increase in distortion. This particular problem is endemic with 99% of all solid state amps made.

Strongly disagree that most new gear is bright. It really boils down to speaker choice and system matching. For example, my current DAC is a Chinese DAC that measures extremely well. I usually at listen at around 84 db volume and I don’t find it bright at all; DAC pretty much matches the tonality of my turntable. 

I have heard many fatiguing systems like you describe. Typically the higher end the less “fatigue” will be involved. The inexpensive stuff typically has a very high noise floor (this is subtle to hear directly for the non-trained ear… it just manifests itself as fatigue) and high frequency distortion. These go away with high quality detailed oriented equipment. But you can easily still be left with over accentuated details and a lean threadbare presentation with good bass slam.

I have left many an audition shaking my head in disbelief. On the other hand 40 or fifty years ago I would have left extolling all the virtues.

To me one of the long term draws of the pursuit is learning about sound and music as well as equipment and sound reproduction. Each like an onion… you peal back one after another layer and find more aspects of musical reproduction. In my youth I crave the obvious… details and slam. As I got much more experienced imaging, soundstaging, overall balance. But as I learned what real music sounds (acoustical) I started realizing capturing the musical essence has to do with rhythm and pace, mid range bloom and balanced presentation. No end… just keeps getting better.

I get ear fatigue when the presentation is what I call too bright.  Changing Tubes (or even amps) and DACs is how I deal with it. 

If I find myself turning the music down because it sounds too loud (I listen at 68 to 75 dB) then I have a brightness problem.

Jerry

Curious if people feel the same?

Ear fatigue is caused by higher ordered harmonic distortion that isn't masked by the music or lower ordered harmonics. Its also caused by intermodulations and aliasing in digital gear (which is intermodulations of a different sort). The ear assigns 'harsh and bright' to these distortions and since it uses the higher ordered harmonics to sense sound pressure, is keenly sensitive to their presence even in tiny amounts.

There's plenty of gear out there that can be harsh and bright. Usually the problems show up when you are within 6dB of full power; if your system sounds 'loud' at higher volumes then its an issue. If you are not having problems with these kinds of distortion the system will not sound loud even if it is; IOW you might be surprised to find that you have to yell at someone sitting next to you to be heard.