The DEQX really does sound like a game-changer. The reviews so far indicate it provides a very large improvement in sound quality and it makes good engineering and bio-acoustic sense as well.
Room interactions have always been one of the most major impacts on sound quality, and top speaker designers have been working on group delay and related problems for at least 30 years.
Help!... I received the Premate today and I'm stuck on installing the microphone.
There is no dropdown box to select the microphone. My mic is EMM-6 6780. The mic works because I can tap it and the Control panel responds and you can hear it through the speakers. But the control panel shows no mic installed.
Why did the download CD not provide the list of microphones to choose from as per the instructions?
I can't answer your question about the download CD you referred to. I was provided with the calibration file for my microphone by the dealer from whom I purchased my HDP-5 together with the mic kit (see below), Nyal Mellor of AcousticFrontiers.com. The microphone calibration file would have a .mic file extension, and if it is not on the CD I would expect that the person you bought the Premate from should be able to email it to you. Or perhaps DEQX could supply it, if you were to ask them via their support link.
Once you have that file on your computer, the mic would be "installed" into the calibration software by selecting "Install Microphone" under the "File" menu, and then navigating to the calibration file for the particular mic.
That said, it appears that the EMM-6 is the cheapie (approx. $50) microphone that is included with the DEQX units as standard. I chose the much more expensive ($745) Earthworks "Reference Calibration Kit" alternative. Based on my experience with mics in those two price ranges for unrelated applications I suspect that you would get significantly better results if you were to purchase the Earthworks kit. A good source from whom to purchase it would be Nyal Mellor:
P.S: I just took a look at the CD that came with my HDP-5. Viewing the files on it via the File Explorer in Windows I see that there is a folder called "Microphones," and under that "Dayton," and under that "Dayton" again, and under that "6780EMM6-INV.mic" among many other listings. If you can find that file on your CD, copy it to a location on your hard drive and proceed as I indicated above.
Ozzy, if it isn’t on your CD, you can also download your mic file by going to the DEQX website:
From the bar across the top of the page, choose: Owners, then upgrades from the dropdown box, scroll down to Dayton mic files & Dayton all Microphones - download (mic).
You will be asked for authentification..... User name = beta Password = nyquist (all lower case).
Once you unzip the folder, the file "6780EMM6-INV.mic" is in there.
As for the two different mic types, I originally used a Behringer ECM8000 (DEQX predecessor to the Dayton) with the HDP-3 & later upgraded to an Earthworks M23 before I purchased the HDP-5.
I would not worry too much about the different mic’s because the critical frequency range is going to be somewhere between 200hz & 10khz & the reference mic really comes into its own at the highest frequencies, although measurements across the board do appear to be a little more precise. My measurement routine, calibration and setup is quite OCD and therefore the benefits gained by the M23 proved worth it (I am able to use much lower levels of smoothing & greater accuracy in calibration across the entire frequency range if I choose to).
Listening to music via the same speakers based on an outdoor measurement, there is definitely an audible improvement for the M23 but it is not that great. If I had never made the later calibrations, I would still have been extremely satisfied with those from the lower cost microphone.
Thanks everyone for your help. I emailed DEQX yesterday and they emailed me back the download file for the mic. After fiddling with that download for a while and rebooting it now shows the mic installed.
However, dummy me, the volume setting was set too high (max) and I blew out a tweeter. I hope to have its replacement tomorrow.
So, I measured the good speaker and then copied those results to the other, then I did my subs.
Once the replacement tweeter is installed, I’ll do the room correction. But, I can already tell that as I get more familiar with the screens and settings I will redo the tests.
Almarg, The mic I have is good to start with, perhaps down the road I will either rent or buy the more expensive one.
Ok, I've done the speaker measurements and with the dual JL Audio subs and the room calibration. What I found was that it is better to calibrate the JL Audio subs with there own microphone before using the DEQX with them.
I still need to figure out the delay functions and many of the other tweaks.
Does anyone think if there is a breakin time for the unit? I am using it as a Preamp so I assume like most things audio 200 hours of use time seems to be about right.
I also ordered a SR black fuse to match with all my other equipment.
Does anyone think if there is a breakin time for the unit? I am using it
as a Preamp so I assume like most things audio 200 hours of use time
seems to be about right.
Ozzy, I see from your earlier post that you purchased a 'used' Premate so I would expect it is already broken in (if there is such a thing - the process of setup, measuring, calibrating and experimenting over the first few weeks will probably take long enough).
As for the BSG QOL, I have never seen this item before & I'm not clear what it would achieve after the Premate has done its processing. From a very quick look at a few web pages, it seems to work with phase shift. However the DEQX algorithms will correct phase and timing automatically for everything upstream anyway (via the mic measurements).
If you do plan to try this out, I would suggest downstream (before) the Premate but I recommend you set the system up without this and experiment later.
Though the Premate unit was purchased as used, I was told that it was never used just the box was opened up. Perhaps it was used as a demo. Everything about it looks brand new.
Thanks for your comments on the BSG QOL. Tomorrow, I will try the high analog output from the DEQX into the QOL with the QOL then going to my amp. My logic is that I have the speakers and room set up with the DEQX, so I should be able to hear what the QOL adds. But, I also intend to try it the other way too, that is before the DEQX.
I changed the fuse to the SR Black, but I am confused. The unit says to use a 2A fuse but what was in it was a 1Amp.
I also changed the jumpers settings, while inside I noticed that the mother board says HDP-4 which is perhaps a good thing. But, on the power cables going to the IEC there is a cheapo snap on RCA ferret, perhaps a bad thing.
The logic behind my response is that DEQX corrects the speakers (+ Amps) & room whereas the QOL appears to deal with phase anomalies on the source recording. Adding this component between the Premate & amps will upset the measured relationship so I would not do that.
"Thanks, If the QOL is placed before the DEQX Premate would I need to run the measurements again?"
No, the DEQX processor measures the effect of the speakers/cabling/amps downstream & the QOL is going to address source material upstream. This has nothing to do with in-room measurements.
The PreMate microphone measurement is based on a rising frequency plot created by the processor & will have no correlation with anything beforehand in the rest of your system (which is the correct way to do this).
Then, during normal listening, it will be fed a ’corrected’ source signal & it will phase & time correct everything for the speakers & room afterwards based on the chosen calibration.
.....If you added it after the PreMate (especially if you then took a measurement), the two separate phase corrections may give strange results & it’s definitely not as DEQX intended.
Yes those confidence levels should be fine. Only 3dB between L & R main speakers means your mic was fractionally off centre so look at the impulse response of both in one viewer window, zoom in and take the mid point timing as the reading. (It will probably be no more than 1 or 2 fractions of a ms difference between the two main peaks & only really visible at a high zoom level).
The best way to set mains to subs is first to align the faster sub (usually nearest to your listening/measuring position) to the slower sub, then align the pair of main speakers (average reading as above), also with the slowest sub.
Finally, take another measurement afterwards to verify & you should see both subs initial peak at the same point & the main speakers main peak now also at the same time alignment. I always find it best to open two viewer windows, one for the pair of mains, one for the pair of subs. If you try and see all 4 measurements in one viewer, the scale usually makes the sub measurements look almost flat and impossible to interpret accurately.
Thank you for the info I try them tomorrow. I need more practice. I would like to set up the Bypass 0 profile. Do I need to do another complete measurement or can I copy the speaker measurements?
I am stuck trying to complete the Bypass profile 0. It seems basic to set up different profiles and be able to select them from the remote, but I can’t seem to get it.
It seems that I can only select one profile from the remote that will play. That is, if I finished the bypass installation on profile 0 it will play on profile 0 but then my corrected profile that I have on profile 1 does not.
When I go back and again set up the profile 1, from the remote I can select the corrected profile 1 but when I push profile 0 (bypass) there is no sound.
I’m missing something, can you understand and help?
This could progress into quite a lengthy exchange & may take a while, depending on our relative time zones. What I've normally done in situations like this is have the user send me their .mzd file which I can interpret properly, make initial time alignments etc & send it back with four different profiles set - If you want to do that, use the address below
andrewd@stockton92.freeserve.co.uk
I'm happy to help as I well remember the frustration that can come during the initial learning process - there are a lot of parameters that interact with each other. The software also has a lot of details that aren't totally documented.
I believe these paragraphs from version 2.98 of the manual may explain the issue you referred to just above. (I assume version 3.02 of the manual provides similar information, but I haven't looked for it there):
Note - when the Save All to DEQX button is clicked, all four profiles from the open configuration are saved to the DEQX. Since all profiles of a new configuration are disabled until you change them, if you install a correction filter in just one profile of a new configuration, then save it to the DEQX, the other profiles of the DEQX will be disabled, irrespective of what those profiles may have been before.
Note that the DEQX Configurations saved to the DEQX unit have been generated in 'non-real time' i.e. they only affect the processing by the DEQX unit once the Save All to DEQX button is clicked. This contrasts to changes made in the DEQX Control Panel, which affect the processing on the DEQX in ‘real time’ i.e. any change made in the DEQX Control Panel instantaneously affects the DEQX. For more on this subject see IO Manager in the Reference section.
To save a DEQX Configuration on your PC (not on the DEQX), click on the Save button once you have set up the DEQX Configuration. This also saves the measurement(s) and correction(s) you have created.
No, but when you create a profile and do a "file/save" (which updates the .mzd file that is currently open on your computer) or a "file/save as" (which creates a new .mzd file on your computer), and then at a later time you create an additional profile and do a "file/save" or "file/save as," when you "save all to DEQX" what will be uploaded to the DEQX are the four profiles that exist (or don’t exist) in the .mzd file that is currently open.
So you can create a profile, store it in a .mzd file via a "file/save" or a "file/save as," and at a later time create an additional profile in that same file, and then a "save all to DEQX" will upload both profiles to the DEQX.
Thanks, I got it and I can now toggle between Bypass 0 and my calibrated profile 1. This is important to me because I wanted to try additional profile settings but I was afraid I would lose my 3 hour+ calibration.
Sorry I didn't respond earlier. Linear bass is clean bass. Its bass that doesn't smudge the sounds next to them. A 24 hz signal played loud can't have any effect on the rest of the music, and it usually does. You need to eliminate that.
well i've been looking at accourate. seems like it can do everything deqx does. One question that bothers me about deqx tho- people say it is 'transparent'. but is it really? With so many golden ears around here who can tell the difference between a schiit gungnir and yggdrasil, you'd think having a round trip A:D, DSP,and then D:A would really make some irritating noise?
I am a newly minted PreMate owner examining the possibilities. A couple of thoughts: 1) I know I will want Roon capability so is it possible to upgrade to the 4th gen processor?
2) Earthworks m23's are widely available at sub $500. I would be interested in a group buy to drive that price lower if others care to participate?
3) Has anyone attempted to use a USB converter from the 232-ComPort w Flirc to have wireless display & control??
Great thread & I appreciate the education. I am way behind the curve but will be contacting Larry Owens soon.
I have recently completed new Open Baffle speakers utilising both DEQX processors as mentioned in previous threads. Linking master-slave by RS232 + digital cabling was straight forward. The HDP-5 controls the main speakers, the HDP-3 two subs at <50hz.
Currently I have only measured outdoors at a relatively low height because of the weight of these speakers. At a later date I will re-do this at 1m height. Rather than move the entire system outdoors I used 15m speaker cables and two interconnected 7m microphone cables (to Earthworks M23) from the music room.
I've been following this thread for a long time and even weighed in last year with a bunch of questions. After moving from the west coast to the east coast and briefly owning a PS Audio DirectStream Junior DAC, I've now made arrangements to buy a used DEQX PreMate Plus. The DSJ has been phenomenal, but I feel the DEQX can help me overcome issues with my room and subwoofer integration. In my new room, I want to reduce some of the hotness in the treble, and uneven bass. I can keep the group updated as i go through the process of setting it up but for reasons I won't get into, it won't get here until early December.
Does the DEQX get very warm to the touch when left on continuously? I’ll be placing it in a 4-sided shelf that’s open to the front and back. There is plenty of clearance above the unit (6-7”), but only a measly 0.35" of clearance on either side (the vents are located on the sides of the PreMate Plus). The user manual calls for at least 2” of clearance on either side. Should I be worried. My current DirectStream Junior has no vents and gets along just fine in this shelf.
I heard from another DEQX owner that the company does have speaker correction filters already completed for some speakers, like the KEF LS50. Lucky owners of those models can download the correction filters from DEQX instead of having to them at home. I've reached out to the company to ask if they have a speakers (Revel F208), but haven't heard back yet. Does anyone know what speakers they've tested?
Both the HDP5 I own and the Premate+ are described as using low noise switching power supplies, and I suspect that the same supply is used in both. The power supply in the HDP5 is a commercially available sealed unit capable of supplying a maximum output of 30 watts. Since it is a switching supply and since the power drawn from it is undoubtedly somewhat less than 30 watts I would expect that the unit's AC consumption is not a great deal more than that amount. Which means that it won't run particularly hot, and will just get a bit warm as I have found with my HDP5.
That said, 0.35 inches of clearance by the vents does sound a little uncomfortable to me. My guess is you'll be ok over the long term, but I'm unsure.
I have no specific knowledge regarding your second question.
Thanks, Al. A well-reasoned response. I’ve been thinking the same thing. It pencils out alright, but it’s not ideal. I’ll have to keep a watchful eye on the heat during listening sessions and place it somewhere else if it gets to be too much.
Wanted to thank everyone for their commentary and posts on this piece. I have one coming, should be here next week. Looking forward to getting it integrated.
Wondering if any could share their connection setup. I’ve been attempting to integrate my preamp into the chain, with 0 luck. I pulled my DAC and inserted the Premate and am not able to get a signal to pass through my preamp. Sounds/works great without my preamp, connecting my amps directly to the DEQX, but getting the processed signal to pass thru my premamp, no bueno. It may be something as simple as selecting the correct input, via the DEQX, though I’ve selected “auto” and every input, via the remote. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Todd, if I understand correctly you are supplying the Premate with a digital input, and when you connect the analog "main speaker" outputs of the Premate to your (monoblock?) amplifiers everything works fine. But when you connect the analog "main speaker" outputs of the Premate to analog inputs of your preamp, and connect the preamp’s analog outputs to your amplifiers, you get nothing.
If that is a correct interpretation, the only possibilities I can think of (assuming you are using similar settings of the Premate in the two cases) are that the preamp’s input select switch is not set to the right input, or there is a connection problem, or the preamp has a problem.
In any event, as you alluded to I suspect the cause of this problem will turn out to be something simple.
Wondering if any could share their connection setup.
Hi Al and thanks for the quick reply. Your interpretation is correct. It does sound quite good without my preamp, but I really like the tubes I have in it, adds a little “warmth” to the overall presentation, so I’m not ready to discard it. The preamp isn’t super finicky, but confirming that the analog out into the preamp should suffice, has me stumped.
Ok, I won’t throw a “solved” in there, but generally the simplest answer is correct. I wasn’t plugging both XLR’s from the preamp into the DEQX, just one side; which there was just white noise coming out. Plugging both in makes it work, along with the sub.
I believe the DEQX comes with operating software on a CD. Neither of my laptops have a disc drive so I might need to buy one. Does anyone know if that software can be accessed as a download and not read from a physical disc?
Yes, the software, user manual etc are available to download from the DEQX site (you will need to ask by email: alangford@deqx.com for the latest login & password to do so).
I bought my DEQX PreMate+ back in December 2017,
and finally got it calibrated on Thursday so I’m now utilizing its digital
crossover and room correction functions. Here is a rundown of the setup process, and my impressions. After living with the DEQX as just a
DAC-pre for over four months, I can say I’m quite pleased with how the DSP
has improved the sound (more on that later).
I was too intimidated by the calibration software to attempt it myself so I
booked a session with a reputable “DEQXpert” aka dealer, named Larry Owens,
based in Colorado. It took about 3.5 hours from start to finish. While it took
longer than the 2-3 hours he estimated, I was quite impressed with Larry’s
knowledge and adeptness with the software.
I expected that we’d start by taking near field anechoic measurements of the
speakers, but my DEQXpert, Larry Owens felt that might not be necessary. We
started by placing the mic at the listening position and based on the
measurements, he felt that would be sufficient for us to implement a crossover
for the sub/mains and correct the in-room response. I’m not sure exactly why we
skipped the near field measurements because much has been made about that
element to distinguish DEQX from other room correction products that don’t do
speaker correction. I can say that if we’d done those measurements, it probably
would have taken twice as long.
Before ever seeing any measurements, I expected a few things: (1) that my
subwoofer was set a bit louder than the speakers, (2) that I had some
nonlinearities in the bass, particularly due to some dips below 80 hertz, (3)
that my left channel near the wall was less accurate due to boundary effect,
and (4) that the high frequencies were slightly emphasized in-room. Turns out
all of that was true except for the fourth point. The highs were fairly well
behaved already.
The speakers (mostly left channel) had a dip around 60-70hz and the sub had a
dip around 80-90 hz so by setting a digital crossover at 78hz, voila, both dips
were avoided! From there, Larry made a bunch of very precise corrections in
both the timing and frequency domain that made things look progressively more
beautiful as he went along.
With just a couple hours of listening under my belt, I can say the system's
frequency response is noticeably flatter. The sound is more precise; less
vague. The bass is less room shaking than before simply because it was set too
high, but now it’s definitely tighter and more articulate. It makes it easier
to follow a bass guitar line and distinguish pitch (less monotone bass). I also
feel like the bass in more consistent throughout my room, which I didn’t expect
and can’t quite explain.
My stereo presentation is also noticeably
improved after Larry corrected each speaker to more closely match each other.
Before the calibration, I perceived my Revel F208 tweeters as a bit too bright
so I used the switch on the speakers to turn them down .5-1dB. Larry pointed to
a slight peak at a narrow but critical region in the upper mid treble that he
suspected might be the culprit. He used parametric eq to flatten that out and I
think that solved it. Much better to address that one narrow problem than turn
down everything above 3k with that tweeter knob on the speakers. The highs
sound more accurate now. Not too prominent nor too recessed.
I will live with this for a while and report back to Larry if any additional
tweaking is needed. He’s been a joy to work with.
@almarg : Hi Al. I,m taking steps to acquire a PreMATE Plus at the first of the year and am selling some seldom used gear, to help offset the cost. I have a subjective question, concerning the connection of my Theta Miles CD player. I am currently using the Theta through its analog balanced outs, going into my Aesthetix Signature linestage. I decided to run the Theta through my Casablanca 3 and must admit, it sounded a little clearer, than the Aesthetix. I have a Kora Hermès II, also presently not in the chain, that I thought I may use in front of the Deqx unit. Do you have an opinion on which would give me the better sound? Theta straight to the Deqx, or Theta + Kora+ Deqx? Without the Miles own dac, I would be using a digital cable apron 20’ long, as I’m already using a better quality set of XLR’s to my linestage. Also,I have the Casablanca up for sale and couldn’t find a fair true price, to ask for the unit. I simply checked the blue book and compared it to other CB3’s on the market. I’m not trying to gouge anyone-just not sure about the asking price. One more question-I’m planning on getting the M23 mic, but can get it for about half the cost Larry is asking. Do you know of anyone who has done this, then purchased the mic files? One last comment. For my two JL F113’s, I’m using a separate preamp coming out of the linestage tape out. This gives me total separate volume control, over my subs. My Wilson’s have very deep bass and I use the separate sub volume control, to offset any lacking in bass, depending on the source’s bass output. It’s a setup that has worked very well, in tailoring the bass to fit the source. Thanks in advance, Steve
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