Integrityhifi TRU-GLIDER Pendulum Tonearm

So doctor V, you know people who only read stone tablets in ancient Greek or other ancient languages?  Internet says the Greeks first intuited that the earth is round about 500 years BC.  In the 1600s, Galileo added to the pile of evidence with his telescope.  Since the printing press was invented around then, most printed historical texts would say the earth is round.  But it is fair to point out that perhaps I should have either quoted a source or made my own case against the Nasotec, instead of smearing it by implication.  I have never owned or heard one, but I did read some reviews of it on WBF and elsewhere.  If you have one and have a more positive view, let's hear it.

From what people read in history , the earth is flat

And is the recommended pivot to spindle distance greater than the pivot to stylus distance?

The Nasotec headshell is by itself a problematic product from what I’ve read.

@phantom_av 

Congratulations on the J Sikora table! 😎  I spent many hours over 3 days during the recent AXPONA Show near Chicago this past April listening to the J Sikora Reference Line table, mated with Doshi Tube Electronics and Joseph Audio Pearl Graphene Speakers.  Imho, this system was easily the best and most enjoyable sound at the show for me.  If I were to get another table, I seriously think this would be the one!

Getting back on the topic of this thread, the Tru-Glider tone arm.... it might be beneficial to those members that are interested in pursuing this arm if we new the following (if you'd be willing to share with us 😊)

1. Which tonearm did the Tru-Glider replace on your J Sikora?

2. Did you use the same cartridge and phono stage with both arms?

3. Which cartridge and phono stage did you use?

4. Just out of my own curiosity, which J Sikora table do you have?

Thank you for sharing all of your thoughts and experiences with us all!

Best wishes to everyone,

Don

@phantom_av I know that's a combo that the good Dr. has installed many times.  Everyone I know has been happy with this arm and on a pretty wider variety of tables.   Enjoy!!

So can any one of the happy users of this tonearm tell me whether it is meant to be set up so that the stylus tip underhangs the spindle? In other words, is the spindle to pivot distance greater than the pivot to stylus distance? Thx

Well, that is a data point indeed!

There may be an aspect to this tonearm that totally escaped my notice, first time around. Is it meant to underhang the spindle? I searched this thread, a review article in Positive Feedback, and the Integrity website in order to answer my own question, and I did not find the information. (Not to say it isn’t there, but if it is there, I missed it.) In some of the photos on the Integrity website, it does appear to be underhung. If its mounting geometry is such that it is meant to overhang the spindle, then I agree with its detractors; the design seems hopeless. But as an underhung tonearm, it is quite interesting. However, it cannot be free of at least some bearing friction, and it cannot be free of skating force. Nor can I imagine why cartridges mounted on it would not need any attention to azimuth.

Yes, two years.  Frankly, in all that time, my philosophy has not changed.  If it doesn't make any engineering sense to me, then I don't spend the effort to buy it and listen to it.  The high end audio world is filled with snake oil and other junk equipment that doesn't work and it is just someone wanting to make a quick buck.  This arm might sound great in my system or it may not, but if I can't see how the designer is thinking and follow his/her philosophy, then I won't spend the effort to give it a try.  Perhaps I missed out on some great gear, but I've never been bitten by the snake oil monster either.  For this arm to take a spin in my system, it will have to have some overwhelming 3rd party evidence that will work like a champ. 

mijostyn - so, it's been over 2 years since this thread began.  Can we now assume you have actually listened to the arm?

@phantom_av  Maybe because your bass has disappeared?

I just installed this Arm on my J Sikora table, I dont really understand how it works but it works very well. Clarity as improved across the board.

People stop reading and start listening.

@fsonicsmith , gallery furnisher is/are one off designs made for galleries who sell the to up scale New Yorkers for ridiculous money.
People have been making fun of my English difficulties my entire life. I'm dyslexic. If it were not for my special ED teachers it would be a lot worse and I certainly would not be where I am today.
I did have pictures of my old Sota on my system page but I took them off when I sold it. That was nine months ago. I just finished setting up a new Sota Cosmos and will have pictures of it up by tomorrow. Along with the cartridge you will see on the Sota is a Clearaudio Charisma. Those are the only two I have at the moment. The cabinet the Sota is sitting in I finished three weeks ago. It is a straight forward design. I let the wood speak for itself although I did do the veneer work on the wall section.

Now down to business. In setting up system it can be either a stupid silly amount of trial end error (been there) or using your noggin and the right tools to do the job to end up with a much better result. It seems you do not understand this approach. Perhaps some day I'll get a chance to demonstrate it for you. I've been at it for 63 years. Maybe in another 18 you'll get the hang of it.  I also was an enuretic until the age of 13. Anything else you care to know?

Nescient.  Nearly the perfect adjective for the member in question.

A rare lack of appreciation for one of our more nescient members.

@mijostyn

Regarding your "system" (yes, I put "system" in quotes because to me it resembles something Tim Burton might have dreamed up).

From a purist's perspective this system is a complete nightmare and not worth a second look never mind listen.

Agreed.

Everything works and sounds great except the right interface still got hot as a pistol. Fortunately the resistor will take 200 degrees C about 400 F. Something else was wrong. Yup, compliments of digital room control run amuck.

From the mouth of babes (or boobs). 

MS Tool and Woodcraft is me. I make gallery furnisher.

Interesting sentence structure. Just what is a gallery furnisher? You furnish galleries?

But let's get away from the ad-hominem stuff that I have admittedly just stooped to. 
You say you are a tube and SS guy but I see minimal tubed gear in your system. You say you are a digital and analogue guy and yet your turntable is not apparent in any of your photos, you don't bother to list your choices of cartridges, and your long diatribe refers to one digital recording after another. I don't buy an iota of your BS. 
It seems obvious to me that you don't trust your own ears and think everything is "working wonderfully" (a phrase you utter as some people utter "you know" in between real words) so long as your computer tells you so. The proof lies in your long effort to convince us that you have one hell of a listening room and sound system as proven by your TACT screen-shots. 
I guess Jim Smith has no clue what he is talking about in his books and videos. I guess his proven track record of solving show condition conundrums for show exhibitors is mere anecdotal mythology. To hell with speaker positioning and methodical trial and error and the hundreds of other variables that he addresses. Just shove your transducers wherever you wish-yours appear to be simply shoved up against the front wall with a video screen perched between-and simply use a digital equalizer and adjust for a straight line from 20-20K. Huh. Even Kal Rubinson would not stoop to such a weird amalgam of simplicity and [needless] complexity. 
While you don't claim to be an engineer you are taking a pure engineering approach to recreating recorded sound in your home. In my 45 years in this hobby I have observed time and time again that what makes this hobby so fascinating is that it involves a healthy mix of science and art. The history of audio is replete with instances in which an engineer designed and put to market a product relying solely on measurements and nobody could bear to listen to it. 

Jeez - and all this time I have been listening to my audio gear and music when what I should have been doing was calibrating my mind.  All of your gear "works wonderfully well".  Since listening is not a criterion, what is?  Does wonderfully well consist of all of the lights/displays coming on?  

"Whatever any of you think something sounds like is totally meaningless."  In my many years of being in audio, no statement I have ever before read has approached the benthic ignorance of this.

You guys knock me out. Whatever any of you think something sounds like is totally meaningless. There is no way to calibrate the human mind. There is no reference. I have heard systems people thought sounded great that were awful, not only to my ears but they measured terribly also. 

@fsonicsmith , I have both tube and solid state gear, analog and digital.
It all works wonderfully well and is all well designed and built. You keep listening to what other people think things sound like. Get a new set of cable elevators. I hear the new porcelain ones sound better than the wooden ones you are using. They are more detailed and the bass is tighter:-) 

Where are you located?

lancelock - +2 to both!

Kudos to @drvinyl01 for setting up my Tru-Glider. Excellent arm and service.

We are dealers of the glider and we have sold around 10 of this arms. We bring the arm we set it up and 2 tracks later, we get paid and head back.

That is a very good point! 

In that case the table the turntable is mounted on becomes part of the tonearm system.

Since the TRU-GLIDER Pendulum Tonearm mounts on an external pod, dealers should allow potential owners to audition one in their own home. 

@drvinyl01 - Yes, although that comment pretty much applies to everything, right?   

A test drive means buying it, installing it, which also means cutting a new plinth, and then doing some listening.   A very expensive approach if you decide you don't like the given tonearm.   I'd rather get opinions and find a dealer first.   The problem with dealers is some of them have systems that don't sound as good as mine, so it makes buying decisions difficult.

Its is very easy to criticize what you dont understand , The bottom line is that it sounds better than any arm I have heard at any prize. So if you have not listened to the arm you are not qualified to give an opinion. Take one for a test drive, listen and, then you can give an educated opinion . I have installed this arms in sizes from 8" to 15" and they work exactly the same. And the sound characteristics remain constant. So speculate all you want you won't understand until you listen to the sound of this incredible tone arm.

@larryrs,

I have the Tru-Glider with the DS Audio Grand Master. Truly spectacular.

@larryrs That is a good datapoint, thanks.  I wonder how it sounds compared to a Kuzma 4 point?  

I have the Tru-Glider and am using it with a DS Audio DS003 cartridge.  It is exceptional.  The difference in sound between it and the VPI JMW 10.5 with the DS003 is striking.  Transients, especially, are reproduced with much more life than any other arm I've used.

@tomwh Yes, I agree - ears count in the long run.   But before I buy, the unit has to make sense to me that the manufacturer is onto something good.   I skim through the audio ad hype and look for real meat in the ad, if I don't find it or what they are selling makes no sense to me, then it never gets into my stereo.  I could be wrong, but that is where I draw the line.    

Fsonicsmith you nailed it. Most people memories are not that long. What is Femer background in music , engineering etc... If I was going to Quess, writing is how he got the job.

In regards to the variables you also nailed it. The record groove is a physics nightmare. People need to look at a microscope picture of a lp then come back to me about how great their stylus profile and compliance is. How many people even understand how a cartridge works? Then we get vibration issues. Rebound it , let drain, but how fast , wait what frequency, no modify then rebound no I mean drain. Crap  now I am confused. Wait I will ask the Ad men or the magazine writers they are musicians and have physics with vibration control back grounds degrees and can write up a storm in there spare time. How that for a run on sentence. Quess I am not getting a writing job for a audio magazine!!!

The funniest part about the whole thing is regardless of how many variables known and unknown we play with and test, your ears are the only thing that matters. Regardless if it sounds like real music or not. The problem starts when people start talking in absolutes. Or my favorite Netrual or maybe Upgrade or better across the board, guess I have more than I thought.

Enjoy the music
Tom

Just to add a bit to my post above, if moment of inertia were such a critical design criterion why not a 3", 5" or 7" arm? We all know the answer to that. The formula for moment of inertia is I=L/w where L is angular momentum. Guess what, angular momentum is determined in part my mass, L= mvr with the m being mass. So if it were so critical, why are we not back to the days of the Infinity Black Widow tonearm? Anybody remember them? Google it. The unchecked pursuit of low mass tonearms personified. The answer to that question is that low mass brings it’s own host of problems. So suddenly we are to believe that a stout 9" arm like SAT’s top of the line arm is the ideal (until next month when Marc Gomez comes out with the next best arm) is without compromise? This entire argument surfaced when Mike Fremer, always the worshipper of the most exclusive, started parroting-and when it comes to engineering, Fremer is 99% a parrot of things he has been told by others-statements made by Marc Gomez of Swedish Audio Technology aka SAT. Until recently SAT offered 12" arms though Gomez was quoted as saying he only offered them to accommodate the market. Again, I don’t dispute that with certain cartridges moment of inertia is an important factor and that a 9" arm may well be optimum, everything else remaining equal. But only with certain cartridges since compliance, suspension design, and even the stylus shape and cantilever material will all play a role. A Koetsu may very well benefit from the inherent virtues of a 12" arm-greater mass, different resonant frequency, less tracking error-whereas Mikey’s current favorite-the Lyra Atlas Lamda- may sound slightly better on an otherwise identical 9" arm. Compared to the thousands of other compromises made in an entire system, the 9" vs. 12" is in relative terms de minimus in degree.

and i was going to ask about sending my Triplaner back for the CF armtube… ha

I do think it is nice to codify one’s beliefs or essential features / design attributes….but i have heard a few great sounding systems w Unipivots, notably AJ Conti designs ( RIP )…..

I just post here. My observation is that Mijostyn is gradually becoming an absolutist. Either that or he has always been one and is showing his colors more with time. His edicts are no different than a solid state person stating that all tube gear are nothing more than tone controls. No different than stating all wire is just wire. No different than stating that since a Benchmark DAC or Class D amp measures beyond reproach, they are the best in their respective categories. No different than stating that Tekton Moabs are the finest loudspeakers ever to see the light of day. No different than Millercarbon thinking we are interested in his life. Sorry I have intentionally meandered thinking I am funny. 
Just as there are countless ways to skin a cat, there are countless ways to get great sound reproduction in one's home. Audio reproduction in the home is as compromised as an under 10K automobile that meets all safety and emissions regulations. Mijostyn thinks audio reproduction consists of tangible ideals. It does not. What all this boils down to is this; a twelve inch arm can sound so good as to be the least of one's problems and compromises. On a scale of relativity, the inherent possible qualitative differences between a well engineered 9" and 12" arm is maybe a "1" whereas the qualitative differences caused by the quality of the record pressing is a "10".

grk.  How dare you bring logic in to the party.  Next you will bring up distortion, come on you do not need ears to hear.  Look at these graphs, read our marketing  copy,  trust us would we lie to you just for money or ego?  Well guess what the door mouse is getting stuffed  back into the pot.

Enjoy the ride
Tom

Mijostyn  please tell me what type of expensive machine is required to bore a hole to fit a ball bearing.  Also with all your machining  background, would you use a inference  fit or maybe slip with locite for abec bearings.  On the physics  side of things how much pressure does a 2 gram downward  force  ,with med compliance  cart up force, get back to bearing, so these close tolerances are needed.  Also when you have your test equipment  out check the side force needed from the cantilever to create bearing play with the arm weight resting on the bearings.

Enjoy the ride
Tom

so anyone?

Dear @lewm : the headshell is manufactured by Nasotec and yes it works with friction.

For what I read and know there is no measurements that can confirm zero tracking error with that headshell and that tonearm.

Sounds different?, of course sounds different, perhaps not so different as the dealer/distributor posted here.

Btw, according internet information with cartridges that needs low VTF it does not works so well. I know that nothing in audio is perfect but innovation always is welcomed.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

The VIv Lab Rigid Tonearms is a very interesting design.   The concept of using a liquid for bearings goes way back in time.  Light houses used mercury to float the huge and heavy light assemblies for almost no friction.  Does anyone on this board have one?

IIUC, as it is a pivoting arm It does have tracking error.  It may just be that tracking error means a lot less in terms of SQ than we like to think it does.  Also some of these arms are very long, lessening the tracking error.

As for its anti-skating measurements, of course, as it has no offset anti-skating is not an issue.

With respect to the tracking error and zero offset issues compare to the VIv Lab Rigid Tonearms, though they are generally shorter.  These also violate all the accepted rules but are said to sound great.

I have been a dealer for this arm since the beginning . I have replaces Shchroders,VPI,SME's etc. There is no tracking error. The anti-skating numbers in my Analog Magik data is close to perfect, 
The length of the arm is irrelevant to the tracking or anything else. The important part is the sound, it sound different to what your use to. It reveals all the blackness nuance and detail I have never experience before on any arm  at any price.

@loki1957 , You must have a ghost problem.

Sorry for not proofreading. The boo doesn't belong.

@loki1957 , what is a BOO? I'm glade you are happy with your turntable.
Enjoy it in good health. 

@Lewm, It is hard to do a true gimbal pivot and keep the vertical bearing at record level. You have to resort to something like what Tri-Planar did.
The SAT arm is a very fat gimbal pivoted arm with a very high vertical bearing. The price is also ridiculous. I wouldn't get it even if I had the money. The Tri-Planar is a better design.

Oh, but you have to listen to it. Right, it is virtually impossible to listen to any arm in your own system without buying it. What other people say it sounds like is close to worthless. The Transcriptors Vestigial Arm taught me that lesson. You have to buy an arm based on it's design and quality of manufacture. So, you have to set parameters for what a good design is. An arm should be very stiff but as light as possible. It should have one wire from from each cartridge pin to the phono stage RCA's or XLR's. The vertical bearing should be at record level and the geometry such that the arm is of neutral balance. It's bearing should lock motion in the axial and torsional directions, and it must have a low friction anti skate mechanism. An opposing magnet system like Reed and Schroder use is ideal.  I have learned to stay away from longer arms. They have higher moments of inertia and can not be made as stiff as a shorter arm without adding even more mass. The improvement in tracking error is not even close to being worth the added mass. I am all for tangential tracking. IMHO the biggest benefits are, no skating and a lower moment of inertia. The two that are ideal are the Reed 5T and the Schroder LT. Unfortunately, neither will fit on my turntable. The Reed is also very pricey. There is a German carriage driven arm (can't remember the name) that on paper looks great.
You know how I feel about air bearing arms. 

I have one on my vpi hw40 and love it. I did have some difficulty on initial set up but that was me not the arm. Once set up it works flawless. It takes some getting used to as far as cueing the lead in groove. The first track I played was Johnny Cash Spiritual off the Unchained record. The hair on my arm literally stood up. It tracks both sides of the groove perfectly. I never use the BOO arm that came on the table. Wish I could take it off. 
As far as not fitting any table that is totally false. Watch their videos. They show all kinds of different rigs. 
Give them a call if you have questions. Tina and Carlo are the nicest people.

@lewm  There are many excellent arms that do not have gimbal bearings but are excellent none the less. Example are the 4 Points, the Reed 2G
Origin Live, Rega and the Schroder CB and only g-d and Frank Schroder know what is in there.

@lewm , there are 4 degrees of freedom  (movement); horizontal, vertical, axial and torsional. Theoretically a tonearm should only be able to move in two of them, horizontal and vertical. Movement in the other degrees will cause distortion of one type or another. Axial movement would cause something like wow and flutter. Torsional movement would certainly increase stylus and record wear and depending on it's resonance frequency, distortion at some level. Tonearms have to be as stiff as possible in the last two degrees to maintain proper geometry. It is bad enough that an arm operates in arcs, warp wow can be painfully obvious. Stick a dime under the edge of a test record and play a midrange tone. The change in pitch is obvious. An arm that has it's vertical bearing at record level will be a little less obvious. This is why Tri-Planar and Schroder designed their arms the way they are. The 4 Points are another example. Reed also does this with the 2G. I could own any of these arms. All of these arms are also neutral balance arms. Tracking force does not change with vertical motion. Most arms are static balance.
Anyway I chose the Schroder CB I guess because it is a favorite of many whose talents and opinions I respect and I like Frank's design mentality. His arms do everything an arm should do but they look so simple, elegant.

As for unipivots, they are a simple cheap way to build a tonearm. The two best unipivots, the Graham and Basis arms have been redesigned and have mechanisms to control torsional movement. Graham uses opposing magnets and Basis added a weird second bearing that stops torsion in one direction. The offset counter weight is then adjusted so bearing contact is maintained. It is really not a unipivot anymore. It is a bipivot. Adding lateral weights just lowers the resonance frequency. Good preloaded bearings are expensive and machining becomes critical as the bearings have to be aligned perfectly. It takes a very skilled person or a very fancy machine. Rega and Pro-Ject arms are a great value because those much bigger companies can afford the very fancy machine. I would take a Rega arm over a unipivot VPI arm any day. 

Can you imagine the arrogance of SME limiting their tonearm sales to their turntables! In order to get one of their arms you have to spend a fortune on one of their tables. They are great tables but let's face it, a great value they are not.