Integrated amp: Component weight

FINAL DECISION (follow-up)

Well, I’ve now had my R 2500 R inhouse for about 4 months.

This model was cover-featured in last month’s Stereophile but I think the lengthy review, while quite positive, failed to grasp just what a game-changer this box is -- IMHO, out of the class of every other integrated I’d considered. Maybe a TAS review or Stereophile’s promised follow-up will address some of this first review’s omissions.

Regardless, the bottom line for me is that, despite costing three times my original budget, I’m still over the moon about this purchase decision. The unit’s outstanding T+A DAC, headphone amp, streamer, connectivity & functionality, ease of use, build quality, and overall SQ (not to mention its disc transport) are all outstanding for a $19K package, especially when considering the R 2500 R’s compact form factor and light weight.  Those not familiar with T+A (highly regarded among audiophiles in Europe, just making inroads in North America) should research this unit's advanced dual-path DAC and sophisticated power-supply design.

I have a fairly complex multichannel setup, lots and lots of boxes and cables, but over the last few months, I find myself listening almost exclusively to just the R 2500 R directly connected via $5K WireWorld cables to sub-enhanced Harbeths. Even after all this time, I still find myself having a ball revisiting familiar recordings and being amazed at how the T+A reveals ambience, untangles dense mixes, and presents content with jaw-dropping physicality and air. There have been times when I could swear that my center & surround speakers were being powered -- strong words, given that the ability to disappear into a three-dimensional soundstage has never been one of Harbeth’s greatest strengths.

The R 2500 R has exceeded my expectations in every way. After almost six months of intensive research (you should see my spreadsheet!), I found no other product at any price that could have been integrated into my multichannel setup so easily and effectively.

Yeah, other people's MMV, but from my perspective -- happy ending!

If you’re open to buying used, you could probably get the Kaluga (without DAC or Phono) for $7K to $8K.  They come up frequently for sale.  I can’t say that I’ve heard it but I’ve read the reviews which left me impressed.  Good luck!

Consider forgetting the weight issue and find a strong friend.   Think it through, find  a good place, set it once and leave it.  Consider Hegel h390 or hegel units above. 
All The Best!

Consider any of the current Bel Canto integrated amps.

Alternately I am a fan of the Rogue Pharoah.

Or if an all in 1 integrated has appeal Cambridge Evo 150 might cut it or beefier NAD M33 with built in DSP might check all the boxes. 

The Technics G-700 integrated is a well received and well reviewed unit. It has 70 watts into 8ohms and 140 into 4--plenty of power. It also has several patented hardware solutions to keep the Class D power on plane. The best part is the cost is about $2,800 retail and weighs under 30 pounds.

FINAL DECISION (WELL, NOT QUITE, BUT HERE'S THE BEST CANDIDATE YET):

When I finally completed the spreadsheet nothing jumped out at me. 

Ayre, Hegel, Bryston, Benchmark, Devialet, Audionet, Chord, Pass Labs, Simaudio Moon were all near-misses.  Every one was tempting, but none were a close enough fit.  Didn't think this would be so complicated.

But now, one more contender has appeared: T+A's brand-new R 2500 R (not to be confused with similarly named products).  Not only does this 31lb box do everything I need, but it includes a DAC/streamer that is probably better than what I'd buy as a separate.  The DAC is an update of T+A's popular $7500 model, albeit with slightly lower specs, like only (!) 512K DSD.  And the streamer even includes HDMI video passthrough for integration into a home theater. 

If I was to break a cardinal rule & consider an integrated with an embedded DAC/streamer, T+A is one of the few companies I'd short-list.  And at the risk of starting a war, I personally believe that combining a DAC & streamer in the same box is a better idea, all things equal, than connecting the two with cables and an external clock.

The R 2500 R offers about 200 wpc into 6 ohms, outstanding connectivity, and even a CD transport & FM/DAB tuner.  Overall SQ (this is T+A, of course) is likely to be as good or better than any other unit I've looked at.  It's been shipping for two months, has not yet reviewed in any venue I trust, and has already sold out at most dealerships.  But I can wait for a product that looks as spectacular as this one on paper.

As I've mentioned, I can't get out of the house, but a colleague will be demoing it at AXPONA next week.  So I should know more.

The biggest downside: $19K is way above my original budget. Still, all I would need to add would be cables & power cord. 

Maybe I'll post a thread asking for any hands-on owner feedback.  Assuming that there's anybody on Audiogon who actually owns one.

Update: I don’t see a lot of documentation, but I’m getting the impression that the $6-10K T+A integrateds are all Class D. I’m willing to concede that there are some really superb-sounding Class D amps amps out there, but without the ability to audition before buying, I’m staying away from D topologies across the board. Dumping my current well-reviewed Class D amps is one of the main motivations for my current upgrade.

Re: Chord, I’m amazed at how much misinformation there is on Audiogon about this company. Some of the most adamant posters even confuse the Chord cable mfr with the Chord amp/DAC company. Sigh.

Chord makes Class AB gear that lowers weight by utilizing a switching power supply. But, jeez, that's not a Class D topology.  And while SPS’s are associated with switching noise, that’s not an automatic dealbreaker. A well-designed product -- like the Chord amps, apparently -- can prevent that noise from polluting the audio signal.  That's hardly news.

The pudding for me is that Chord reviews in the more credible audiophile press are consistently glowing, and seem to position the overall SQ of the Ultima line (starting at $11K) maybe one level above similarly priced offerings from the likes of Benchmark & Byrston. (The Ultima Reference line is out of my price range, so I haven’t investigated it.)  And those who own Ultimas give high praise to their performance.  Some claim that the Chords sound best with systems like Martin Logan electrostats and Wilson Sashas, and not so much with "lesser" speakers.  But that's a can of worms I can't address without first-hand experience.

Hey, I don’t have a horse in this race, and have no commitment at this point to a Chord purchase. But after a deep dive into the company, I've come to the conclusion that its amplification products don’t deserve to be dismissed as "overly bright", much less Class D-compromised or, even less rationally, being criticized as being (in the worst possible sense of the word) "pretty."  Come on.

The Chord Ultima Integrated may be a bit beyond my budget at $11,250 for an analog-only integrated, but I’d still add it to my A list, along with Benchmark, Byrston, Ayre, & Hegel integrateds.  It seems to be a well-conceived, well-designed, and well-built product.  Not sure how well it would mate with Harbeths, but I get the impression that a good fit is not unlikely.

Any Chord amp owners (not DAC owners) out there who'd like to contribute some first-hand feedback?

Oops -- one other suggestion was just made to me, and it definitely looks interesting: The Chord Ultima Integrated, $11,250.

Anybody have direct experience with this box?  Remember, I'm currently using Harbeths, a relatively low sensitivity, 6-ohm load that is reputed to have much higher real-world impedance.

I think it' just started to ship in North AmericaI a few months ago, so I can't find much in the way of reviews, other than a few YouTube clips. Those have been rave reviews, and one lengthy video compared the Ultima very favorably to Benchmark gear, played through a mid-range MartinLogan electrostat -- a very revealing speaker.

So I'm intrigued.  Throw in a couple of T+A integrateds that had previously slipped through the cracks and it looks like this melodrama is still far from over.  Three more products to check out...

A few people asked me to post when I came to a final decision. Well, I’m not there yet, but I think I’ve finally checked out every suggestion that’s been made in this lengthy thread. Wow, it’s been complicated!

My completed spreadsheet tells me:

A list (at most one failure to meet my list of requirements, but no dealbreakers):

Ayre EX-8 2.0 (#1 choice, but hard to find, which makes me nervous) Benchmark Benchmark LA4 pre + AHB2 pwr + DAC3 L
Bryston B135cubed
Hegel H590 (too heavy, but o/w second only to the Ayre)

Plan B
Devialet Expert 220 Pro (configuration nightmare)
Naim Uniti Nova PE (brand new, not yet reviewed)
Pass XP-12 (paired with what amp? Not sure where I’d go with this great pre)
Simaudio Moon 340i X (maybe for amp/preamp only, not phono or DAC)

As for DAC/transports, if I don’t go with an Ayre, I’d have to come up with some sort of outboard DAC/streamer/transport. I still like HiFi Rose’s streaming UI a lot, but am less enthused about the company’s DACs and quality control.

Anyway, I think that’s progress. If any has any other suggestions, I’m still open to new ideas.

A Pass Labs / Devialet combo would be interesting, eh? If only from an intellectual-curiosity standponit. I’m sure both mfrs would be horrified!

i'm 78 and cannot manage any lifting any more. I got rid of my pass monoblocks and old B&W floorstanders and bought some devore O96 efficient speakers and a Nagra classic amplifier. I run my dac/streamer thru the amplifier direct. Lightweight speakers- amp is only 39 lbs .. the sound is great headroom, soundstage as good as I had before. 

My thought is with the other guys--get some efficient speakers, and your choices for lightweight amplification are endless.

Fair enough!  Again good luck!

@fastfreight

No, it just isn’t a good fit. Now that GTT has sent me a price list, I find that a Mola Mola system would cost 50% more than what I’m looking to spend. And even if that wasn’t the case, I don’t see it satisfying the connectivity requirements I outlined in my original post. So I’ll have to pass, unfortunately.

I have to say that GTT was very responsive & professional. It seems like a great outfit to work with.  Wish we could have done business together this time.

I can understand that...I feel that way (biased) about some amazing gear from other countries.  But I say nothing spotty here.  Bill Parish at GTT has fantastic service and most of all knowledge.  Just talk to him.  I think the Makua w Tambaqui is the sweet spot, save a stand alone Tambaqui.  So many people have these and love them.  Getting the Makua lets you play with different amps now and later.  And the Makua is visually stunning.  I only stream, no vinyl or other inputs, but still I love the preamp w DAC.  If you have an issue, Bill will take care of you. It takes a much more expensive preamp to best the Makua, and the internal Tambaqui is exactly the same as their stand alone Tambaqui.  And together it is a value if you consider yourself getting a DAC like the Tambaqui :)

@fastfreight

OK, I dug a little into the Mola Mola line and, really, it looks pretty terrific in more than one way. Howevere, I can’t seem to find a price list. There are a few reviews of individual components that list a purchase price at the time of the review, but I can’t find much in the way of current pricing.

UPDATE

I still can't find a current price list, but my gut feeling is that Mola Mola gear is out of my price range. DAC + pre-amp came in close to $30K a couple of years ago.

Worse, this Dutch company's presence in North America is spotty. The company Web site lists only one NA "appointment-only" distributor/dealer that doesn’t list pricing, or much of anything useful that isn’t already on the MM Web site. No idea how service works -- ship back to the Netherlands?

Really, really nice-looking products (at least on paper), but probably not a good fit.

@fastfreight

I’m embarrassed to admit that I didnt' remember hearing anything about Mola Mola, but a quick Google refereshed my memory.  At first glance, it looks like a Makua preamp paired with, say, a Devialet might do everything I need, other than, possibly, streaming.  I'll continue to investigate. At this early stage, I'm not even sure of pricing, much less specs.  I see Herb in Stereophile liked the Mola Mola DAC.

Thanks for the heads-up re: a company that almost slipped through the cracks.

Hi @cundare2 !  Have you considered the Mola Mola Kula?  I have the Makua with onboard Tambaqui and it is excellent.  While I  did sell my matching Kaluga amps in favor of Audionet Max amps, the newer class D in the Kula really do sound nice for a one box light package, and you can get it with the Tambaqui inside. Put a Grimm MU1 streamer and Roon Core in front of it and there you go. I still like your Ayre option but I agree the Devialet is a bit weird.  :)

I wonder if they handle Devialet or Ayre?

I'll go check at your link, thanks H.

@cundare2

I have purchased several products from The Music Room and they are excellent. Their web site says “New product lines for which TMR is an authorized dealer carry a 60-day satisfaction-guaranteed return policy. Return shipping costs are at the expense of the customer unless the product is defective. Full manufacturer warranties are in effect for these products”. I suggest you ask them for an integrated amp under 40 pounds.

The Music Room web site link

please see their preowned list of integrated amps.

@geof3

Thanks, that’s good info.

I also found a dealer -- one that I’ve had good experiences with it in the past -- that has a no-questions-asked 60-day return policy that includes the Devialet. The Devialet is so impressive in so many ways, but is so tersely documented, possessed of such bizarre configuration options, and based on such unusual circuitry, that, with no chance to hear the thing before buying, I couldn’t consider dropping $10K without a generous return policy. And since I’d have to combine it with an analog front end (and maybe a streamer) of some kind, I’d give the Expert Pro 220 maybe a 50% chance of being a good fit.

Nonetheless, it’s such an interesting product with so much potential that I’m sorely tempted.  If the 22lb Pass Labs XP-12 preamp only offered a little more connectivity, I'd love to hear what that particular odd-bedfellows pairing would sound like.

Check out The Music Room. They currently have a 590 for around 5800.00. They are also Benchmark dealers. You’ll see a many other potentials as well. They have a great return policy which would allow you to sample some of these pieces. You might even talk to them and tell them what you are doing and they may have you buy an amp or three and give you some sort of discount on return shipping or something for what you don’t like.

@hgeifman

>I agree with @blisshifi that it would be best to hear the amp with your speakers in your room before making a purchase. Is this possible?

Again, no, Howard, absolutely impossible. The fact that that’s not an option is the biggest reason why I started this thread.

> If not, you need an option to return the amp if you do not like it.

Yup. You do realize that you’re mansplaining now, right? 😉 I’ve been involved with high-end gear since the 1970s and was actually a frequently published audio reviewer in mainstream magazines throughout the 1990s & 2000s. So I understand the logistics.

And tbh, in the case of Ayre in 2024, that may be easier said than done. I’m finding that dealers who have handled Ayre in the past are finding it hard to even obtain product these days -- something not often mentioned on dealership Web sites but made clear when you speak to a dealer on the phone.  Perhaps the recent rave reviews of the VX-8 & EX-8 in high-profile venues like Stereophile have increased demand beyond what this small company can keep up with.

Anybody got a used EX-8 they'd like to part with?  I thought so.  Ayre owners seem to want to hang onto their gear for a long time.

@geof3

Yes, you’re right. I was thinking of the Hegel. The EX-8 would probably spec at about 130-140wpc (nominal, of course) for my 6-ohm Harbeths.  Thanks for catching that.

Harbeth recommends a nominal 25wpc, but also released a video in which the designer/owner of the company powered them with a high-end amp that offered VU meters.  You could see that the Harbeths drew upwards of 300 watts on peaks, and the final recommendation was that, although you could get decent dynamics with a lower-powered amp, the entire Harbeth line would do its best with amplification that had plenty of raw power, especially overhead.  That's one area where Ayre is outclassed by Hegel, at least in my application.

Harbeths have relatively low sensitivity, but other than that, they were deliberately designed to present an easy load. See JA’s measurements in Stereophile. Rememeber that these are thin-walled critters with roots going back to the BBC designs. As an old LS3/5A fan, that was one thing that originally caught my attention many years ago, when I first started thinking about them when I was forced to sell my Quad 57s.

@cundare2, I agree with @blisshifi that it would be best to hear the amp with your speakers in your room before making a purchase.  Is this possible?  If not, you need an option to return the amp if you do not like it. 

@hgeifman The only reason I mentioned the EDGE A is because despite the OP’s weight specification, he also mentioned interest in a 50lb unit, so I figured this one wasn’t far off. :) But yes, it is over 40lb.

@cundare2 I’m not sure which Harbeths you have - can you restate if I somehow missed it? I see you don’t have a virtual system in your profile. I like Harbeths, but I find them to be somewhat sweet on top at times, depending on the speaker, which is why I mention the EDGE, which may bring out more clarity. Seeing that you’re in Hawaii, you might have a hard time demoing things, but it’d be best to hear the amp with your speakers in your room before making a purchase. While it will likely control the Harbeths really well, the sonic signature is slightly warm, but also very detailed and incisive, so how that pairs based on your sonic preferences is left to be determined. I have had two customers, for instance, move away from the Hegel H590 to go to an EDGE A integrated, and the H590 is almost double the retail price.

@blisshifi, The OP states he wants an amp under 40 pounds. The Cambridge EDGE A amp Weight is 53.70 pounds meaning it is too heavy. On the other hand, the Ayre EX-8 2.0 amp only weighs 24 pounds.

Finding a high quality amp, under 40 pounds, including the OP’s other requirements is not easy. The Ayre EX-8 2.0 amp at 24 pounds is the only amp I found that meets this requirement. It seems every other amp is too heavy. This is a very difficult challenge.

I have similar amp weight restrictions. I purchased the Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp that weighs 36.6 pounds and like it very much. 

@blisshifi 

Hope you don't think I was putting down Cambridge.  I've been a big fan of the company since Harry started it and have used many Cambridge products in home theaters, on the desktop, etc., with great results.  But this time, I'm looking for a major step up, a full electronics upgrade, and am willing to spend maybe $20K for components & cables.  The Edge, from what I read, is a real bargain and is a true audiophile amp, especially considering its price.  But does it offer the connectivity I need, and is it in a class with $10K boxes from Ayre, Hegel, Levinson, etc.?  I don't get the impression that it's the right fit.  But you seem to have much more experience than I do with the Edge line.  What do you think, given all that?

I dunno about Margules.  I want to keep an open mind & I"m willing to convince myself if that makes sense.  But I have no knowledge at all of the specific model you recommend.  Could this be used in a multi-channel system that requires an integrated to offer HT bypass, at least 3 line-level inputs, along with a sub output and the ability  to drive an external headphone amp?

@krelldog 

The Coda is heavier than I would consider, although if it's superb in every other way, I might bite the bullet and consider it.  But what about functionality?  Does it support the connectivity features that I outlined in my original post?

Here's the thing:  If I'm gonna consider a 50-pound box, why wouldn't a Hegel be my first choice in that weight class?  It's reputed to be a perfect match for Harbeths (Harbeth uses Hegel in its rooms at shows) and has connectivity & functionality second only to Ayre.  And, if I recall correctly, is about 45 pounds (compared to Ayre's 24).

 @hgeifman

>If you purchase the Ayre EX-2.0 Integrated amp, would you purchase the amp only or include it with the Digital Base (S/PDIF, AES/EBU) with USB port and with the Ethernet port?

Yes, I'd go for the full package.  The EX-8's DAC is the only internal DAC on the market (at least in this price range) that I would consider buying instead of a separate.  Two trusted friends who've heard it, both of whom, would normally never consider an embedded DAC both gave it surprisingly high praise.

@cundare2 Sorry, I just meant the Margules ACRH-4 only uses single ended inputs and outputs. It’s Class A/B push pull with a tube hybrid buffer stage.

I understand your concern regarding quality control and discussed this with the Margules team and the US distributor a lot this year. They have since made some really good improvements in the gear and the last shipment of product I received was on a much greater level of fit and finish than before. Let’s say I had my moments of frustration in the past.

Cambridge has a stigma of being mid-fi, but they really did something special with the EDGE line of electronics. I still stand by it, that it performs even beyond its already higher than typical pricing for them, but delivering beyond compared to the competition at the same price. I’d pick the EDGE A over the Ayre EX-8, for instance. I think the EDGE would sound more musical and engaging while still retaining the razor sharp incisive holography that Ayre typically brings  

I’m not trying to sell you on the EDGE, but rather just give it the respect it deserves when many others dismiss it because it’s associated with Cambridge’s mid-fi track record.

I just sold 20K of Pass Labs ...250.8 amp which weighs 100 pounds, and an XP 22 ..2 piece preamp.

I bought a Coda Csib V1 which is suggested above multiple times.

My big Harbeth's have never sounded better. The synergy between Coda and Harbeth is absolutely amazing.

It weighs 55 pounds, but its very easy to move around.

The Coda Csib V1 should be on your short list. I have the V1- 150 watts in 8 ohms-doubles in 4-and doubles again in 2 ohms. Absolutely amazing Integrated amp.

@cundare2,

If you purchase the Ayre EX-2.0 Integrated amp, would you purchase the amp only or include it with the Digital Base (S/PDIF, AES/EBU) with USB port and with the Ethernet port?

To be honest, based on the amps recommended on this forum tread, I believe the Ayre EX-8 2.0 amp is your best choice and the amp only weighs 24 pounds.

@blisshifi  Thanks for the recommendations, but probably not a good fit.  I liked Cambridge gear when I was much younger, but this time around, I'm looking at a different level of sound quality, more along the lines of ARC, Ayre, Pass Labs.  The Edge, as good as it is at its price point, is probably not a good fit.

As for Margules, I'm hesitant.  Some years ago I bought a Margules turntable, and found the fit & finish to be so amateurish that I immediately returned it.  So I'm a bit gunshy about buying Margules gear mail-order sight-unseen at this point.

If you have other ideas for products you sell & have personal experience with, send me a private message.  Thanks.

@blisshifi  Did I read that right?  A 100wpc SET?

I am a dealer for the amps I am about to mention, but I do feel they are worth considering:

Margules ACRH-4 - A Class A/B tube hybrid integrated amp using a pair of 12AU7 while including a decent MM phono stage. It is single ended only, no balanced connections. It only delivers 100 into 8 and 160 into 4, but it is also a fairly high current amplifier from what I’ve heard and does a good job controlling amps better than others in its price and power range. It’s under your budget, too.

Cambridge EDGE A - Sounds and performs like a Class A amplifier but also is excellent with microdetails at the frequency spectrum. Also British, the Cambridge EDGE series is very synergistic with Harbeth. It is still also only 100 into 8 and 200 into 4, but with Harbeths, I’ve found that high current is more important than high power. This is why they are often paired with tube amps. 

@cundare2, Someone on Audiogon mentioned this amp and I thought it had many of the items you wanted. Obviously, it is a new product from a new company so more research is required. Mark Levinson is a well know name but questions need to be asked and answered. If possible, I would prefer a USA MADE product if you can find one that works for you.

See Daniel Hertz Maria review

See retailer link that has this amp

And Plinius?

Thanks, sokogear, I'll check that one out too.

I thought I was near the end of this excruciating process, but I guess not.

But I can't complain.  Shopping & self-educating is half the fun.

Daniel Hertz???

Howard, you're teaching an old dog new tricks.

I'll look into this.

Has this box ever been reviewed?

What about this amp?

See Daniel Hertz link

“Daniel Hertz makes only one amplifier – Maria – the very best that Mark Levinson can design. Maria 350 is the stereo (2 channel) model, and Maria 800 is the 4 channel model with active crossovers and time alignment enables for driving bi-amplified speakers. Maria is a single chassis, all in one audio electronics solution, replacing the DAC, preamplifier, power amplifier, headphone amplifier and interconnect cables, fully programmable active crossovers and time alignment are enabled”.

”

Specifications

• Daniel Hertz Mighty Cat™ Audio Chip with C-Wave™
• Digital to analog conversion with no seperate DAC
• 3 analog (1 meg ohms) inputs, USB, coax, wi-fi, Bluetooth
• 2 Channel power amplifier
• 350 Watts per channel (8 ohms)
• 500 Watts per channel (4 ohms)
• Bluetooth and Wi-Fi enabled
• Internal tuneable Headphone amplifier
• Custom Daniel Hertz speaker connectors
• Hand-built mirror black finished Perspex chassis
• Hand-polished stainless steel knobs and buttons

Weight & Dimensions

Power output, two channels:
350W per channel at 8 ohms.
500W per channel at 4 ohms.

Frequency response:
5 Hz - 30 kHz

Native resolution:
384 kHz PWM, 3ns

AC Power input:
90V - 250 V

Dimensions:
Height:
110mm (4.33’’)

Width:
430mm (16.93’’)

Depth:
330mm (12.99’’)

Weight:
6kg (13 lbs)
Fuse: 15 A
Digital inputs:
Bluetooth, digital coaxial, USB Audio 2.0, WIFI

Bluetooth (wireless):
24 bit, 48 kHz


Digital Coaxial:
24 bit, 192 kHz

USB Audio Class 2.0
24 bit, 192 kHz


Analog inputs:
stereo RCA, 3 pairs with 1 megohms input impedance

Analog outputs:
Left and right channel speaker outputs via Daniel Hertz speaker connectors.

Headphone output via front panel 1/4" phone jack.”

How about a Plinius Hautonga (AB)? I think it's about $4-5K. I have it's predecessor, the 8200MKII for 19 years and it is a super reliable great sounding amp. The Hautonga is 30lbs and 200WPC into 8 ohms. Their bigger one, the Haito, is 56 lbs and has 300WPC. They've reduced distribution in the US, but you can still get them.

Here’s one reason why it’s been tricky to figure out if the Devialet Expert Pro can be configured into my multi-channel system.

Fixed inputs: 1 USB,1 opt; 1 digital XLR

Configurable inputs:
1 line-in/phono;
2 coax dig-in/1 line-in;
1 mono sub/coax dig in;
1 coax dig-in/dig-out;
1 mini-opt in/RS-232

And all inputs (not sure if that includes both analog & digital) can be configured as home theater bypasses.

I need simultaneous HT bypass, sub out, output for headphones (or a headphone amp) out, & inputs for 2-4 analog sources & an outboard streamer.

Oh and just for icing, the Devialet product literature is so terse as to be unhelpful. The company seems to want people to figure out if the amp works for them by running a Configurator program that stores connection-setups on an SD card that you insert into the amp.

So before you can even figure out if the amp will handle all your other components, you have to go online, learn how to use a configuration application, and proceed by trial-and-error. And when I tried to use the configurator, it had a simple interface, simple in both the best and worst ways: easy to make changes but short on explanations about what those changes do, or why certain combinations are not allowed.

Absolute Sound dinged the product for its complicated setup, but I don’t think that tells half the story.

My head hurts.

@hgeifman At one time, I lusted over anything that John Curl designed and the Hint6 was a bit of a dream purchase.  Now that I have greater financial means, I'm looking at higher-quality gear, more like Ayre & Hegel.  But at their price points, all the Halos seem to be great choices.

@yyzsantabarbara Thanks for the details.  Interesting comments, especially your comments about the KEF + Benchmark combo.  The LS50s don't have the Harbeth's LS3/5A heritage, but they do seem to have a lot in common.

@axeis1  Yeah, I had to eliminate great-sounding components like the Aesthetix & PrimaLuna tubed gear for the reasons you mention.  I read every TAS cover to cover, so I remember Neil's review.

Still working on that spreadsheet. Boy, it's complicated sorting through everything -- I love the way Benchmark sometims lists 2 inputs as being 4 in its spreadsheets -- counting the # of jacks, not channels!  It takes time to double-check everything.

Regardless, this is turning into a very interesting discussion.

@cundare2 I guess the Aestheix Mimas with its tube preamp and balanced bridged solid state output might be too heavy at 50lbs? You might want to read Neil Gader’s review in the Absolute Sound. FYI I drive my power hungry little Dynaudio Heritage Specials with the Mimas with great success!

@cundare2 The new KRELL that is represented by the Duo XD lineup is buttery smooth, very powerful, and decently detailed. It is the most relaxing gear I have owned or heard. Do some searches on A’gon on the Duo XD. Read the Stereophile review of the K-300i. those guys can give a better sonic description. Normally I do not like this type of sound, but I remember how much I enjoyed listening to the K-300i and then later the Duo 175XD amp.

For me the Luxman c900u | m90u | Luxman DAC | Harbeth was incredibly lush sounding. The Luxman 509x integrated amp on the same speakers and DAC was not as good nor as lush.

I used the AHB2 monos with the following speakers:

• Thiel CS3.7 (not a good match since speaker is hard to drive)
• KEF LS50 (great match)
• KEF LS50 Meta (great match)
• Audience 1+1 v3 (good but the room was bad)
• Yamaha NS5000 (best speaker I have owned. There is a touch of hardness on top)

I also demoed it with the Magico A3 speaker. It was awful with that speaker. Not enough power as a stereo amp (not mono).

See mfg link

What about the Parasound Halo HINT 6 Stereo Integrated Amplifier? It weighs 33 pounds.

160 Watts x 2 @ 8 Ohms (RMS, both channels driven) 240 Watts x 2 @ 4 Ohms (RMS, both channels driven) Power amp circuit topology designed by legendary John Curl Direct amplifier input to bypass preamp section High bias class A/AB operation Oversized shielded toroid power transformer.

Coax and optical inputs accept PCM up to 192kHz/24-bit Analog bass management with high & low pass crossovers Home theater bypass input for surround sound integration Front panel subwoofer level control Dedicated high current headphone amplifier (TI TPA6120).

See link for review

@hgeifman You know, I looked at the Lyngdorf when I first started this search and eliminated for reasons I don’t remember at the moment. Maybe it lacked the ability to drive a headphone amp, active sub, and loudspeakers at the same time, or perhaps it didn’t offer HT bypass?

But thanks for the reminder.  I'll take another look at your link.

@webking185 Actually, the Benchmark AHB2 weighs 12.5 pounds. I hear what you’re saying about weight, but consider that different technologies have different weight characteristics. There are plenty of fabulous pieces of Class AB gear, from the likes of Ayre, bel Canto, Bryston, Benchmark, Devialet, and others. Many get there by using innovative, great-sounding, and highly efficient output-stage design. The one area where weight, I think matters, is power supplies. But there are exceptions to even that rule. & then there are the increasing # of Class D products -- most based on GaN FETs -- that are reputed to have overcome the sonic compromises of earlier D designs.

The point is that, IMHO, it’s not reasonable today to make an across-the-board conclusory statement about "heft." Doing so robs you of what might otherwise be a lot of great options.

Just something to think about.

What about the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 integrated amp?

Dimensions (Wx H x D): 45 x 10.5 x 36 cm (including connectors) / 17.7 x 4.1 x 14.1 inches

Weight: 8.2 kg / 18.1 lb

Description: 2-channel integrated amplifier and audio processor

Power handling: 2×400 W RMS @ 4Ohm / 2x200W RMS @ 8Ohm

Max output current: 40A

See mfg link

I have a Rotel Diamond Series RA-6000 in black available. 41.5 lbs. Contact me if you are interested.