Integrated amp: Component weight

I wonder if they handle Devialet or Ayre?

I'll go check at your link, thanks H.

@blisshifi  Thanks for the recommendations, but probably not a good fit.  I liked Cambridge gear when I was much younger, but this time around, I'm looking at a different level of sound quality, more along the lines of ARC, Ayre, Pass Labs.  The Edge, as good as it is at its price point, is probably not a good fit.

As for Margules, I'm hesitant.  Some years ago I bought a Margules turntable, and found the fit & finish to be so amateurish that I immediately returned it.  So I'm a bit gunshy about buying Margules gear mail-order sight-unseen at this point.

If you have other ideas for products you sell & have personal experience with, send me a private message.  Thanks.

@petar3

Actually, if I went with Hegel, the model I'd be most interested in would be the H590, currently selling for about half the price of its H600 replacement, which would leave plenty of room for an external DAC/streamer to replace what is reputed to be the 590's not-so-great internal DAC.  I'm sure that this would be a great fit with my system.  Unfortunately, the weight would be an issue.

@soix: Thanks for a coherent respone. I need to handle:

- 3 or 4 analog sources

- drive 20ohm headphones (with or without an external HP amp

- drive an active or passive sub

- provide an HT-bypass input, preferably balanced

- deliver SQ in a class with Hegel, Ayre, etc., models in the same price range. A step above the HiFi Rose / Musical Fidelity MSx realm

@elliottbnewcombjr Uh, I have no idea what you’re talking about. I asked a completely different question -- are you in the right conversation?

Re: Coda, I have a lot of respect for the old Continuum product line, but it doesn’t look like the CSIB is a contender here, for more than one of the reasons already mentioned. Too bad, b/c it’s a nice box for the money.

@stuartk Yes, the Hegel is a contender, although I'm looking for something more along the lines of an H590 than a 390, in terms of SQ.  Which gets me back into the 50lb range

@elliottbnewcombjr  Well, I have to respectfully disagree.  Ayre makes a great-sounding 24lb $10K 300wpc integrated that boasts an enormous feature set.  In that same SQ-class, $6-11K 150-250wpc Devialet & Bryston integrateds come in at  13lbs & 26lbs respectively.  Bryston is Class AB & Devialet apparently uses a very different type of D topology that incorporates a Class A output stage.  So good-sounding lightweight integrateds are are out there.  Even if they're outliers.

Marantz: This model is closer to 50 pounds and doesn’t have any preamp or sub outputs. So unfortunately not a good fit.

McIntosh: A buddy of mine who is a lifelong Mac fan steered me away from this model. I’m looking for a higher-end upgrade and he felt that the output-stage design, which omits some important feature of higher-end Mac amps (I dunno, I trust this guy & you could look it up), would not make it a good match for what I was trying to do. Also, he strongly recommended upgrading to the DAC2 module, which he says is a major upgrade, but that costs a few thousand dollars and can’t be done at home by an owner. The more expensive Mac integrateds, don’t have these constraints, but they’re probably too heavy for me. So regretfully, I had to rule out a Mac solution.

Somebody asked for a reference point: I’m willing to shell out $10K for an integrated, even if that means another couple thousand for an outboard DAC/streamer. So that’s why I originally looked at products like the Ayre EX-8, Devialet Expert Pro 220, & Hegel H590 or H600.

The suggestion to go with separates is a good one. The only reason I’m just starting to investigate that strategy is b/c, given my other constraints, things start to get really complicated. Sometimes I think I should just simplify things & go for the 80/20 rule: Buy a suite of matched products from the same mfr & not obsess too much about sound quality. HiFi Rose & Bryston come immediately to mind as providing all-in-one solutions, and although neither is quite in the class with the alternatives I’ve been struggling with, they’re both reputed to be not that far off.

@soix: I’ll see if I can find that Soundstage review. On Audiogon, though, other Hegel owners have told me that there’s a big difference between the analog sections of the 390 & the 590, and there’s a big difference between the DACs of the 590 & 600. Opinions diverge a lot about everything else, and I understand that context (as in associated equipment, power, and room) makes a huge difference, but those two comments have been pretty consistent.

And I could be wrong, but I think the first time I compared the 390 & 590, I found that the 390 did not have all the 590's connectivity options.  (Surprisingly, the same is true of the H600, which is supposed to be a 590 upgrade!)  But I’ll go back & take another look, b/c I'm not sure about that at this point.

@hgeifman   Yes, I was looking at Benchmark & teh LA4 looks like a great little box.  I'd need to add a digital front end, though, and I haven't dug deep enough into that strategy.  But that's a good suggestion.  I don't know much about the AHB2 at this point, but I understand that both components have excellent reputations.

Hey, new complication.  I just got off the phone with Devialet support, and the rep assured me that the Expert Pro 220 can be configured with HT bypass.  It's not well-documented (like everything else Devialet), but is supported.

He's still trying to figure out how to add headphone & sub outs, though.

D

I'm impressed with the amount of helpful, educated information I got in response to my question.  My short list is not quite as short now: Bryston, Benchmark, Simaudio, Devialet, Naim, Hegel, Ayre.  Maybe STR (which I'm unfamiliar with).

I have a blank Excel spreadsheet waiting to be filled in.

And, no, even if letting electronics determine which speakers you own made sense, I'm not opening a barrel of worms by even thinking about replacing my 14-lb Harbeths. As a former long-time Quad ESL-57 owner, I'm impressed with how close they come to emulating some of the ESL's best qualities.  They're remarkably accurate from 40-50Hz up and -- one reason why I was originally interested in the Devialet -- are said to extended down well into subwoofer territory when playing Devialet-SAM-enhanced content.  Also, I live in an area where finding a house with even a 15'x20' room for under $2M is tough.  So "small & light" applies to speakers, too.  So that's what I have to work with.

Also, with no friends or family within thousands of miles, finding someone to help me move audio gear around is as impossible as flying all day to visit a dealer or trade show.

Anyway, thanks again for everyone's help, regardless of whether a recommendation made it onto my list. 

And I'm still open to more suggestions.

Rotel?  That's new.  I'll add it to the spreadsheet, although I've never heard a Rotel product.

Another missing entry is Gold Note.  The IS-1000 has been reviewed quite favorably, but I see that the company has a new IS-10 integrated that clocks in at around 9 pounds (!), ~120wpc into 6 ohms.  Maybe I'll add both to the list.

And this short list is sure starting to get long!  The gods destroy you by granting you your fondest wishes...

Devialet update:

The Expert Pro integrateds can be configured to provide HT bypass and either fixed or variable-level line output, by cannibalizing other connections.

So that would take care of any bypass & headphone requirements.

As for the subwoofer, I guess I can always wire up an active sub in parallel with my main loudspeakers.  That's something I haven't done in a very long time -- but assuming that Devialet's unusual Class "AD" output stage doesn't t have some sort of histrionic reaction, maybe that puts it back in the running.

I have a tech question on this issue for Devialet support, but I'd be surprised if that didn't work.

Still gonna build the spreadsheet b/c the integrated choice is only half the issue.  I still need to figure out if I'll need an analog preamp/switcher in front of it, and will need to add some sort of streamer or DAC/streamer.

Slowly inching closer, slowly, slowly, slowly, one step forward...  It's like the pace of "Oak Island."

@geof3

Thanks for bringing up those points, but I have an engineering background, so I’m well aware. By "switcher," I was referring to placing a higher-end analog preamp in front of the Devialet, primarly to handle (or "switch") my analog sources, since a Devialet would have only one analog input in my system. The pre-amp might, e.g., be something like a Benchmark or Pass Labs. Since the Devialet digitizes all analog signals, and since any line-level analog input will have to be amplified at some point in the pre-Devialet signal path, I’m not concerned about degradation when we’re talking about a context like this. Hardly "goofy."

As for running the speakers in parallel, jeez, of course, I’d be using my sub’s high-impedance input, orders of magnitude higher than that of my loudspeakers.

The bigger issue with running two sets of speakers from the Devialet’s single set of amplified outputs is that both speakers will be playing signals that have been processed by Devialet’s SAM function. That may extend my Harbeth’s low end down an octave (I wish, but maybe) but would also alter the phase and EQ of the signal sent to my sub. What makes this a credible solution is the fact that my sub incorporates DSP-based room-correction, which Devialet believes would handle a SAM-enhanced signal as easily as one that was not. And who knows, the sub might even sound better with the Devialet’s bottom-boosted, phase-compensated output as a starting point!

But don’t get me wrong. I’m still not married to Devialet. It would be nicer, as you imply, to have a less-complicated, maybe less-expensive, one-box solution from the likes of Ayre or Hegel.

Working on my spreadsheet tonight, and what'll pop out when I can review the numbers on one page, I have no idea.

If anyone is interested in Devialet’s unique amplifier tech -- a new spin on other companies' less-than-perfect approach to Class AD -- here’s one of Devialet's key patents, forwarded to me by a very helpful Devialet rep.

<search for patent #US7545212B2 on Google Patents>

@hgeifman

I'm very familiar with the sonic shortcomings of most Class D electronics.  In fact, that's one of the big motivators for my current upgrade: my current amplifiers are all Class D.  But don't make the mistake of thinking that, because the Devialet technically incorporates elements of Class D design, that it's what we typically think of as "Class D," or even as amps identified as "Class AD."  This circuit design, as the patent describes in detail, is something new, combining a PWM digital signal fed into a Class A output stage.  The split is also more along the lines of current amplification and voltage amplification stages, which is quite different than the Class D we've all grown to know and hate.

If you have the technical background to understand it, I'd suggest taking a look at that patent -- and the other patents that Devialet has filed re: this architecture.

I’m thinking of buying one from a dealer who has a 30-day return policy. It’s such an unusual piece of gear (and so lightly documented) that I might have to have one inhouse to even figure out if I can use it. This is the first amp I’ve seen that requires users to run a configuration program on a computer, store the config on an SD card, and then have the card inserted into the amp every time it boots up. It digitizes all incoming signals and subjects them to very heavy duty, system-specific, DSP in order to match its output to specific speakers systems and phono cartridges. So from a tech/gizmo perspective, it’s pretty fascinating.

How this will translate into sonics, especially on my system, I have no friggin’ idea. But reviews in the Stereophile/TAS mags give its sound quality extraordinary praise, at least among components in the $10K range.

OTOH, I’m just as likely at this point to KISS & go with one of the alternatives suggested in this thread (and enumerated a few messages above). Configuring the Devialet into my multi-channel, 50% analog-source, system, may be too complicated -- or even impossible.

Ya gotta love this hobby.

@deone Yes, the EX-8 V2 is a monster, beautifully and innovatively designed, with boatloads of connectivity. And it’s incredibly light for a 300wpc Class AB amp, thanks to the late Charlie Hansen’s "diamond" output-stage topology. I’m very impressed & agree with you 100%.

The EX-8 would have easily addressed all my requirements and even includes a terrific DAC that is heads & shoulders above any integrated DAC I've seen in a $10-15K integrated -- and probably most $2-3K standalone DACs. (I can't speak to that from first-hand experience, though.)

Unfortunately, there are non-technical reasons I didn’t go for it from Day One, which I’m not at liberty to discuss here. So I’m not considering an Ayre purchase just this second, despite the fact that I’d love to have one inhouse.  If a few things resolve at some point, however, I'm sure that I'd be happy for a long time with an EX-8.

@fastfreight Thanks for the suggestions.  But again, I'm looking for something lighter, 20-30 pounds would be ideal 15lbs even better.  Things are getting worse for my back and as of yesterday, I'm looking at major surgery, with uncertain results.  So the last thing I need to do is buy a 50-70-lb block of expensive metal.  There's no one here who could help me move the unit and a box that heavy would make my racking system unmanageable.  So the weight limitation, unfortunately, is not negotiable.

The most tempting exceptions are the 49lb Hegel H590 & H600, which are such a perfect fit that I WANT to make an exception.  But even in that case, I'm still sticking to my guns and trying as hard as I can to select something lighter, even if that means compromising on sound or functionality.  It's frustrating, but that's the hand I've been dealt.  I'm not gonna whine, I'm gonna just do the best with what I've got to work with.

Still working on this spreadsheet, but right now (I'm going in alphabetic order) Benchmark & Bryston separates look like contenders.  We'll see.

@fastfreight What is recovery from back surgery like? I’m wondering how long it will be until I can even traverse the stairs to my home theater.

How come you don’t like the Benchmarks? I’ve never heard them, but they seem to be pretty popular in this thread. I’m open to any first-hand comments about a candidate component’s performance in a particular system configuration.

Oh, and by "compromise," I’m thinking more like Bryston instead of Hegel, or a HiFi Rose streamer instead of an Aurender.  I have $6000 Harbeths, not Chronosonics, so my goal is that my amplification won't any longer be the weakest link.

What associated equipment was in your system when you were evaluating the Benchmarks? Are you talking about the LA4 and AHB2?

If I went that route, I’d probably add a DAC3 and some third-party streamer, so I’d be getting into the $15,000 range, not including interconnects and power cords. At this point, weight, SQ, and connectivity are more important than cost, though. (Within reason, of course!)

Glad to hear that your surgery went well overall.  I'm looking at something similar, both upper & lower spine, but at this point, have no idea what to expect.  It's hard to find good surgeons in this state, at least on a par with the best in places like NYC, Boston, or Chicago, so I'm hesitant to pull the trigger.  But I definitely don't want to have to deal with a hundred-pound chunk of iron in the house if & when I do have to go under the knife.

@hgeifman You know, I looked at the Lyngdorf when I first started this search and eliminated for reasons I don’t remember at the moment. Maybe it lacked the ability to drive a headphone amp, active sub, and loudspeakers at the same time, or perhaps it didn’t offer HT bypass?

But thanks for the reminder.  I'll take another look at your link.

@webking185 Actually, the Benchmark AHB2 weighs 12.5 pounds. I hear what you’re saying about weight, but consider that different technologies have different weight characteristics. There are plenty of fabulous pieces of Class AB gear, from the likes of Ayre, bel Canto, Bryston, Benchmark, Devialet, and others. Many get there by using innovative, great-sounding, and highly efficient output-stage design. The one area where weight, I think matters, is power supplies. But there are exceptions to even that rule. & then there are the increasing # of Class D products -- most based on GaN FETs -- that are reputed to have overcome the sonic compromises of earlier D designs.

The point is that, IMHO, it’s not reasonable today to make an across-the-board conclusory statement about "heft." Doing so robs you of what might otherwise be a lot of great options.

Just something to think about.

@hgeifman At one time, I lusted over anything that John Curl designed and the Hint6 was a bit of a dream purchase.  Now that I have greater financial means, I'm looking at higher-quality gear, more like Ayre & Hegel.  But at their price points, all the Halos seem to be great choices.

@yyzsantabarbara Thanks for the details.  Interesting comments, especially your comments about the KEF + Benchmark combo.  The LS50s don't have the Harbeth's LS3/5A heritage, but they do seem to have a lot in common.

@axeis1  Yeah, I had to eliminate great-sounding components like the Aesthetix & PrimaLuna tubed gear for the reasons you mention.  I read every TAS cover to cover, so I remember Neil's review.

Still working on that spreadsheet. Boy, it's complicated sorting through everything -- I love the way Benchmark sometims lists 2 inputs as being 4 in its spreadsheets -- counting the # of jacks, not channels!  It takes time to double-check everything.

Regardless, this is turning into a very interesting discussion.

Here’s one reason why it’s been tricky to figure out if the Devialet Expert Pro can be configured into my multi-channel system.

Fixed inputs: 1 USB,1 opt; 1 digital XLR

Configurable inputs:
1 line-in/phono;
2 coax dig-in/1 line-in;
1 mono sub/coax dig in;
1 coax dig-in/dig-out;
1 mini-opt in/RS-232

And all inputs (not sure if that includes both analog & digital) can be configured as home theater bypasses.

I need simultaneous HT bypass, sub out, output for headphones (or a headphone amp) out, & inputs for 2-4 analog sources & an outboard streamer.

Oh and just for icing, the Devialet product literature is so terse as to be unhelpful. The company seems to want people to figure out if the amp works for them by running a Configurator program that stores connection-setups on an SD card that you insert into the amp.

So before you can even figure out if the amp will handle all your other components, you have to go online, learn how to use a configuration application, and proceed by trial-and-error. And when I tried to use the configurator, it had a simple interface, simple in both the best and worst ways: easy to make changes but short on explanations about what those changes do, or why certain combinations are not allowed.

Absolute Sound dinged the product for its complicated setup, but I don’t think that tells half the story.

My head hurts.

Daniel Hertz???

Howard, you're teaching an old dog new tricks.

I'll look into this.

Has this box ever been reviewed?

And Plinius?

Thanks, sokogear, I'll check that one out too.

I thought I was near the end of this excruciating process, but I guess not.

But I can't complain.  Shopping & self-educating is half the fun.

@blisshifi  Did I read that right?  A 100wpc SET?

 @hgeifman

>If you purchase the Ayre EX-2.0 Integrated amp, would you purchase the amp only or include it with the Digital Base (S/PDIF, AES/EBU) with USB port and with the Ethernet port?

Yes, I'd go for the full package.  The EX-8's DAC is the only internal DAC on the market (at least in this price range) that I would consider buying instead of a separate.  Two trusted friends who've heard it, both of whom, would normally never consider an embedded DAC both gave it surprisingly high praise.

@krelldog 

The Coda is heavier than I would consider, although if it's superb in every other way, I might bite the bullet and consider it.  But what about functionality?  Does it support the connectivity features that I outlined in my original post?

Here's the thing:  If I'm gonna consider a 50-pound box, why wouldn't a Hegel be my first choice in that weight class?  It's reputed to be a perfect match for Harbeths (Harbeth uses Hegel in its rooms at shows) and has connectivity & functionality second only to Ayre.  And, if I recall correctly, is about 45 pounds (compared to Ayre's 24).

@blisshifi 

Hope you don't think I was putting down Cambridge.  I've been a big fan of the company since Harry started it and have used many Cambridge products in home theaters, on the desktop, etc., with great results.  But this time, I'm looking for a major step up, a full electronics upgrade, and am willing to spend maybe $20K for components & cables.  The Edge, from what I read, is a real bargain and is a true audiophile amp, especially considering its price.  But does it offer the connectivity I need, and is it in a class with $10K boxes from Ayre, Hegel, Levinson, etc.?  I don't get the impression that it's the right fit.  But you seem to have much more experience than I do with the Edge line.  What do you think, given all that?

I dunno about Margules.  I want to keep an open mind & I"m willing to convince myself if that makes sense.  But I have no knowledge at all of the specific model you recommend.  Could this be used in a multi-channel system that requires an integrated to offer HT bypass, at least 3 line-level inputs, along with a sub output and the ability  to drive an external headphone amp?

@geof3

Yes, you’re right. I was thinking of the Hegel. The EX-8 would probably spec at about 130-140wpc (nominal, of course) for my 6-ohm Harbeths.  Thanks for catching that.

Harbeth recommends a nominal 25wpc, but also released a video in which the designer/owner of the company powered them with a high-end amp that offered VU meters.  You could see that the Harbeths drew upwards of 300 watts on peaks, and the final recommendation was that, although you could get decent dynamics with a lower-powered amp, the entire Harbeth line would do its best with amplification that had plenty of raw power, especially overhead.  That's one area where Ayre is outclassed by Hegel, at least in my application.

Harbeths have relatively low sensitivity, but other than that, they were deliberately designed to present an easy load. See JA’s measurements in Stereophile. Rememeber that these are thin-walled critters with roots going back to the BBC designs. As an old LS3/5A fan, that was one thing that originally caught my attention many years ago, when I first started thinking about them when I was forced to sell my Quad 57s.

@hgeifman

>I agree with @blisshifi that it would be best to hear the amp with your speakers in your room before making a purchase. Is this possible?

Again, no, Howard, absolutely impossible. The fact that that’s not an option is the biggest reason why I started this thread.

> If not, you need an option to return the amp if you do not like it.

Yup. You do realize that you’re mansplaining now, right? 😉 I’ve been involved with high-end gear since the 1970s and was actually a frequently published audio reviewer in mainstream magazines throughout the 1990s & 2000s. So I understand the logistics.

And tbh, in the case of Ayre in 2024, that may be easier said than done. I’m finding that dealers who have handled Ayre in the past are finding it hard to even obtain product these days -- something not often mentioned on dealership Web sites but made clear when you speak to a dealer on the phone.  Perhaps the recent rave reviews of the VX-8 & EX-8 in high-profile venues like Stereophile have increased demand beyond what this small company can keep up with.

Anybody got a used EX-8 they'd like to part with?  I thought so.  Ayre owners seem to want to hang onto their gear for a long time.

@geof3

Thanks, that’s good info.

I also found a dealer -- one that I’ve had good experiences with it in the past -- that has a no-questions-asked 60-day return policy that includes the Devialet. The Devialet is so impressive in so many ways, but is so tersely documented, possessed of such bizarre configuration options, and based on such unusual circuitry, that, with no chance to hear the thing before buying, I couldn’t consider dropping $10K without a generous return policy. And since I’d have to combine it with an analog front end (and maybe a streamer) of some kind, I’d give the Expert Pro 220 maybe a 50% chance of being a good fit.

Nonetheless, it’s such an interesting product with so much potential that I’m sorely tempted.  If the 22lb Pass Labs XP-12 preamp only offered a little more connectivity, I'd love to hear what that particular odd-bedfellows pairing would sound like.

@fastfreight

I’m embarrassed to admit that I didnt' remember hearing anything about Mola Mola, but a quick Google refereshed my memory.  At first glance, it looks like a Makua preamp paired with, say, a Devialet might do everything I need, other than, possibly, streaming.  I'll continue to investigate. At this early stage, I'm not even sure of pricing, much less specs.  I see Herb in Stereophile liked the Mola Mola DAC.

Thanks for the heads-up re: a company that almost slipped through the cracks.

@fastfreight

OK, I dug a little into the Mola Mola line and, really, it looks pretty terrific in more than one way. Howevere, I can’t seem to find a price list. There are a few reviews of individual components that list a purchase price at the time of the review, but I can’t find much in the way of current pricing.

UPDATE

I still can't find a current price list, but my gut feeling is that Mola Mola gear is out of my price range. DAC + pre-amp came in close to $30K a couple of years ago.

Worse, this Dutch company's presence in North America is spotty. The company Web site lists only one NA "appointment-only" distributor/dealer that doesn’t list pricing, or much of anything useful that isn’t already on the MM Web site. No idea how service works -- ship back to the Netherlands?

Really, really nice-looking products (at least on paper), but probably not a good fit.

@fastfreight

No, it just isn’t a good fit. Now that GTT has sent me a price list, I find that a Mola Mola system would cost 50% more than what I’m looking to spend. And even if that wasn’t the case, I don’t see it satisfying the connectivity requirements I outlined in my original post. So I’ll have to pass, unfortunately.

I have to say that GTT was very responsive & professional. It seems like a great outfit to work with.  Wish we could have done business together this time.

A few people asked me to post when I came to a final decision. Well, I’m not there yet, but I think I’ve finally checked out every suggestion that’s been made in this lengthy thread. Wow, it’s been complicated!

My completed spreadsheet tells me:

A list (at most one failure to meet my list of requirements, but no dealbreakers):

Ayre EX-8 2.0 (#1 choice, but hard to find, which makes me nervous) Benchmark Benchmark LA4 pre + AHB2 pwr + DAC3 L
Bryston B135cubed
Hegel H590 (too heavy, but o/w second only to the Ayre)

Plan B
Devialet Expert 220 Pro (configuration nightmare)
Naim Uniti Nova PE (brand new, not yet reviewed)
Pass XP-12 (paired with what amp? Not sure where I’d go with this great pre)
Simaudio Moon 340i X (maybe for amp/preamp only, not phono or DAC)

As for DAC/transports, if I don’t go with an Ayre, I’d have to come up with some sort of outboard DAC/streamer/transport. I still like HiFi Rose’s streaming UI a lot, but am less enthused about the company’s DACs and quality control.

Anyway, I think that’s progress. If any has any other suggestions, I’m still open to new ideas.

A Pass Labs / Devialet combo would be interesting, eh? If only from an intellectual-curiosity standponit. I’m sure both mfrs would be horrified!

Oops -- one other suggestion was just made to me, and it definitely looks interesting: The Chord Ultima Integrated, $11,250.

Anybody have direct experience with this box?  Remember, I'm currently using Harbeths, a relatively low sensitivity, 6-ohm load that is reputed to have much higher real-world impedance.

I think it' just started to ship in North AmericaI a few months ago, so I can't find much in the way of reviews, other than a few YouTube clips. Those have been rave reviews, and one lengthy video compared the Ultima very favorably to Benchmark gear, played through a mid-range MartinLogan electrostat -- a very revealing speaker.

So I'm intrigued.  Throw in a couple of T+A integrateds that had previously slipped through the cracks and it looks like this melodrama is still far from over.  Three more products to check out...

Update: I don’t see a lot of documentation, but I’m getting the impression that the $6-10K T+A integrateds are all Class D. I’m willing to concede that there are some really superb-sounding Class D amps amps out there, but without the ability to audition before buying, I’m staying away from D topologies across the board. Dumping my current well-reviewed Class D amps is one of the main motivations for my current upgrade.

Re: Chord, I’m amazed at how much misinformation there is on Audiogon about this company. Some of the most adamant posters even confuse the Chord cable mfr with the Chord amp/DAC company. Sigh.

Chord makes Class AB gear that lowers weight by utilizing a switching power supply. But, jeez, that's not a Class D topology.  And while SPS’s are associated with switching noise, that’s not an automatic dealbreaker. A well-designed product -- like the Chord amps, apparently -- can prevent that noise from polluting the audio signal.  That's hardly news.

The pudding for me is that Chord reviews in the more credible audiophile press are consistently glowing, and seem to position the overall SQ of the Ultima line (starting at $11K) maybe one level above similarly priced offerings from the likes of Benchmark & Byrston. (The Ultima Reference line is out of my price range, so I haven’t investigated it.)  And those who own Ultimas give high praise to their performance.  Some claim that the Chords sound best with systems like Martin Logan electrostats and Wilson Sashas, and not so much with "lesser" speakers.  But that's a can of worms I can't address without first-hand experience.

Hey, I don’t have a horse in this race, and have no commitment at this point to a Chord purchase. But after a deep dive into the company, I've come to the conclusion that its amplification products don’t deserve to be dismissed as "overly bright", much less Class D-compromised or, even less rationally, being criticized as being (in the worst possible sense of the word) "pretty."  Come on.

The Chord Ultima Integrated may be a bit beyond my budget at $11,250 for an analog-only integrated, but I’d still add it to my A list, along with Benchmark, Byrston, Ayre, & Hegel integrateds.  It seems to be a well-conceived, well-designed, and well-built product.  Not sure how well it would mate with Harbeths, but I get the impression that a good fit is not unlikely.

Any Chord amp owners (not DAC owners) out there who'd like to contribute some first-hand feedback?

FINAL DECISION (WELL, NOT QUITE, BUT HERE'S THE BEST CANDIDATE YET):

When I finally completed the spreadsheet nothing jumped out at me. 

Ayre, Hegel, Bryston, Benchmark, Devialet, Audionet, Chord, Pass Labs, Simaudio Moon were all near-misses.  Every one was tempting, but none were a close enough fit.  Didn't think this would be so complicated.

But now, one more contender has appeared: T+A's brand-new R 2500 R (not to be confused with similarly named products).  Not only does this 31lb box do everything I need, but it includes a DAC/streamer that is probably better than what I'd buy as a separate.  The DAC is an update of T+A's popular $7500 model, albeit with slightly lower specs, like only (!) 512K DSD.  And the streamer even includes HDMI video passthrough for integration into a home theater. 

If I was to break a cardinal rule & consider an integrated with an embedded DAC/streamer, T+A is one of the few companies I'd short-list.  And at the risk of starting a war, I personally believe that combining a DAC & streamer in the same box is a better idea, all things equal, than connecting the two with cables and an external clock.

The R 2500 R offers about 200 wpc into 6 ohms, outstanding connectivity, and even a CD transport & FM/DAB tuner.  Overall SQ (this is T+A, of course) is likely to be as good or better than any other unit I've looked at.  It's been shipping for two months, has not yet reviewed in any venue I trust, and has already sold out at most dealerships.  But I can wait for a product that looks as spectacular as this one on paper.

As I've mentioned, I can't get out of the house, but a colleague will be demoing it at AXPONA next week.  So I should know more.

The biggest downside: $19K is way above my original budget. Still, all I would need to add would be cables & power cord. 

Maybe I'll post a thread asking for any hands-on owner feedback.  Assuming that there's anybody on Audiogon who actually owns one.