I’m considering upgrading my speakers internal wiring

I replaced the internal wiring first before I upgraded the crossovers , this allowed me to experience the change only of the wires .  I used Cardas chassis wire , first I used 15.5awg from speaker posts to crossovers and then to the speakers , I then changed to 17.5awg from the mid and tweeter crossover to the speakers . The origianl wiring was 18awg solid wire .  I like the sound improvement alot but working with cardas wires means using a solder hot pot which is a little more work . 

If your crossovers have Clarity capacitors that's great , I used the newest Purity series on the mid and tweeter and CMR , MR on the woofer ( I upgraded the woofer first before the Purity caps were available ) .  You should also consider replacing the resistors with Mills , I had done this after the wiring and before the capacitors ( I tried to listen to each form of improvement independently rather than doing the upgrades all at once ) . I used the original inductors  do to size .  I also installed Cardas speaker binding posts although if you have the funds WBT posts might be better .

Good Luck

@bobbyloans 

Quality of internal and external wiring is meaningful in all of the components in our system.  I would say the odds are very good that you would find internal wiring for your speakers that would make a noticeable improvement,  

However your system is likely already tuned to your liking and introducing another variable in hopes of improved sound is not a sure thing.  

Since bulk cabling is relatively inexpensive I would suggest you buy at least (3) different brand specs of wiring and give each one a trial.  

Once you find the one you prefer, I would even solder the wire directly to all terminals.  

Lots of work but how would you feel if the first set didn't work out? 

Well this has been a fun ride my friends!

who knew a some

little topic would generate so much activity.  I guess it’s really important to see everyone who loves this “hobby”; which is much more than just that would bring so much enjoyment and happiness to us all. 
Thamknyou all again and I’ll report back once I’ve made a decision and my results 

Bobby 

@bobbyloans The final two feet?  How about the final two inches?  Consider, no matter how thick a gauge wire you install inside the enclosure, any crossover components still have tiny leads, which if you're lucky are tinned copper, but could be copper-clad steel or worse.

OP - Much good advice here.

Quick suggestion:

If you decide to proceed, do one speaker at a time. 

Listen to the differences (if any) while playing a variety of HQ mono recordings. 

Try a few setup locations: 

1) Next to each other if you can switch L/R channels on & off remotely. Reverse the locations in case of room interactions. 

2) Pull one speaker out to the sweet spot & listen for a while. Then switch them. 

You won't get the stereo image / soundstage in this format, but it could allow you to assess other virtues and vices. 

Try not to ruin them both at the same time ;-) 

Just thinking... 

Ken 

@bobbyloans i’ve gone down the rabbit hole of upgrades from every direction and if you are inspired to do any particular thing, I would certainly not stop you… However

A big upgrade that many people miss out on is simply addressing the AC power in your system. This avoids alteration of the equipment which you might sell someday anyway, and gives you some forever new equipment that will be much bigger than the wire in your speakers

In my opinion, and from thousands of hours experimenting ... the place to begin and best value in audio upgrades is a Shunyata Theta 2.25 m AC cable

Even one of these will change your system for the better

If you’d like to voice the system, a little brighter go 2,0 or 1.75m

if you’d like a little bit more on the low end, go with 3 m

if you have more than $1000 to spend, Shunyata research has many power distribution products which are all very effective and have no artifacts on the downside, which can't be said of the offerings from other companies in the power business.  Also, comparatively to the field, the Shunyata stuff is not only better. It's very reasonably priced.

---

and definitely ignore anyone who says that speaker wire or AC cable wire doesn’t matter, these well meaning people either haven’t done the work or they don’t have a system sufficiently resolving to hear what’s going on…

Every single thing matters it’s just a question of degree.

Hello, I upgraded the internal wiring on my Rogers LS3/5a speakers only because they were very thin small gauge wire. I think it’s only worth changing the wiring if you see it’s not good quality wiring installed.  

I replaced the original wire with 18 ga Neotech teflon wire. 

I’ve always questioned the validity of spending tens of thousands on cable interconnects for components, and I have asked this forum more or less the question you pose: if interconnect cable is so important, why aren’t the amps, preamps, and especially speakers similarly wired point to point? It’s meant not as a snark, but a straightforward question. I have never gotten not only a good answer, I have never gotten any answer. At all.

For my Altec 604Cs, I ditched the crossover that they came with, bought a pair of Mastering Lab crossovers that were designed for the 604Cs, and had someone replace all the capacitors with audio grade Jensen foil capacitors.

theaudioatticvinylsundays.com

At a minimum, if applicable, I would do away with any crimp connections that could instead be soldered and replace the binding posts with low-mass pure copper. There is no way those mods could have negative consequences.

If you change the wiring using UPOCC with Teflon, or cotton, dielectric and stick with the same gauge as OEM, how could anything negative come of that?

I think where people may have had negative results would be by changing the wire gauge in the high frequency paths. 
 

if interconnect cable is so important, why aren’t the amps, preamps, and especially speakers similarly wired point to point? It’s meant not as a snark, but a straightforward question. I have never gotten not only a good answer, I have never gotten any answer. At all.

@unreceivedogma

Maybe that’s because the typical "you need to invest (sic) at least $1,000 in your USB and Ethernet cables" folks don’t know how their gear is built or what’s in it, and have zero interest in finding out, just like a person who believes the earth is flat has no interest in travelling to the edge of it: If, heaven forbid, there were no edge there, they’d have to renounce their belief; and if there was in fact an edge, they might fall off, and that’s dangerous. So, all in all, disincentives all around to go find out.

I’d ask Peter if he were making this speaker for a higher price point what caps & wires would he use?  Hats a nice Jon confrontational way of getting the builders opinion. 
Consider Master Built cables for your rebuild. My Von Schweikert’s use them internally. For sure will take away a potential weak link.Though at their price point you’ll for sure want to upgrade Caps too. 

You're playing a fool's game. Put the snake oil down and start working with science and objective facts. Your expensive cables have not improved your sound at all. At. All. Changing out internal wires will also do nothing. 

Shame on people here who claim otherwise. Those people will never be true audiophiles. Frauds.

@bobbyloans 

This may have already been said so apologies if redundant....I didn't have the patience to read through the thread but if you do this, you should also accept that these are now your speakers as their resale value will be lowered.  Regardless if it is an improvement and if you did a perfect job, I cannot imagine being a person interested in a speaker and buying one that the previous owner rewired their crossovers.  There are some Egglestonworks speakers on USAM that I saw today where someone did this and replaced caps in the crossovers...it appears he is having a tough time finding a buyer.  If you can afford it where selling them will never matter and are proficient at this type of work then go for it!

@dhite71 

I saw that Eggleston ad you're talking about in usam.

The crossover build looks legit. The seller used some massively expensive components rarely if ever seen in $2500 speakers, and the workmanship looks fine.

If I were interested, I would want to review old vs new schematics, inspect the crossover work in person, learn everything I can from the seller, and of course carefully audition the modded speakers. If they sound great, that's really all anyone should care about. 

@devinplombier thx for responding. 

dear ChatBox: 

If expensive cable interconnects are needed to maximize performance of high end audio systems, why aren’t the components themselves wired with expensive wiring?

ChatBox:

The discussion around expensive cable interconnects in high-end audio systems often revolves around the belief that better cables can improve sound quality. However, the wiring inside audio components is typically designed with a focus on cost-effectiveness, manufacturing practicality, and performance requirements. Here are a few reasons why the internal wiring of audio components may not be as costly as high-end interconnect cables:

1. Cost and Economics: High-end audio manufacturers balance performance with cost. Internal wiring is often selected to meet specific performance criteria while keeping manufacturing costs manageable. Using expensive materials for all internal wiring would significantly increase production costs and retail prices.

2. Design Considerations: The internal wiring of audio components is designed to work within a specific environment and set of constraints. Manufacturers optimize the design for the electrical requirements of the circuit, which might not necessitate high-end materials or techniques.

3. Signal Path Length: The internal wiring is typically much shorter than interconnects, meaning that the potential degradation of signal quality over short distances is less significant. As a result, the benefits of using high-end wiring may diminish when the wire runs are extremely short.

4. Application of Cables: Cables that connect components (interconnects) are subjected to different conditions than internal wiring. They often face higher levels of electromagnetic interference (EMI) and radio frequency interference (RFI) because they are external and connect various components. High-end cables are designed to minimize these effects.

5. Marketing and Perception: The high-end audio market often places a significant emphasis on cables and interconnects as a means to differentiate products. Marketing can create a perception that these cables are essential for achieving optimal performance, even if the actual differences may be subtle or subjective.

6. Component Isolation: High-end audio components are often designed with isolation techniques that minimize the impact of internal wiring on sound quality. For example, careful layout, shielding, and grounding can mitigate many issues that might otherwise necessitate the use of expensive wiring.

While some audiophiles believe that high-end interconnects can make a noticeable difference in sound quality, opinions vary widely on the actual impact of cables versus the components themselves. Ultimately, the choice of wiring in audio components is a balance of performance, cost, and practicality.

That wasn't so hard now, was it? 

Artificial intelligence nails it. How about that?

@bobbyloans 

If you want to go full OCD, don't assume anything about the speakers.  Trust, but verify.  

Push on connectors are bad.  Soldered connections better.

Anything magnetic at the binding post, replace.

Picture of the crossover indicates both good and questionable. Several good quality components, but far from better that could have been included for the price of the speaker.  Impossible to tell for sure, but possibly a couple small electrolytic caps near the large inductor. Bad. Sand cast resistors.  Bad.

Mention of 5th and 6 order filters begs the question - Why?  That level of complexity indicates significant compensation required for correction of a problem. Driver response, phase, breakup, resonance, cabinet?

If there is in your opinion an issue is sound quality, proceed at your own risk.  

@Sqared80

You honestly do not believe that speaker cables and inter-connects are nonsense snake oil do you?

I have personally been doing incremental upgrades over the past 3 years and have to say ; it all matters. Some things more than others and, some things more pronounced!

You’re clearly not serious

@bobbyloans "I have a beautiful pair for PBN M1!5 in a Black finish which I love and sound incredible"

- .. what is the actual problem statement?