I have recently purchased a Bluesound Node 2i. The dealer suggested I connect the Bluesound by way of digital coax to a Pro-Ject S2 DAC by way of RCA anologue to my ARCAM AVR550. However, I found out I will not be able to control my Bluesound with an iPhone, iPad or PC notebook. The only way to hear MQA completely unfolded is to plug in a computer USB. This would mean I would have to get up from where I am sitting, go to the computer to change songs and albums. I believe the Pro-Ject RS2 DAC would work, but not sure what the sales price is or if this is a good option.
The dealer asked me why I wanted to even bother listening to MQA completely unfolded when the DAC sounded better than the DAC inside the Bluesound. He thinks MQA is way over rated and it may not be around a year from now. If I hook things up with the Pro-Ject S2 DAC I will be able to hear one unfold which would be at 24 bit/88.2 kHz. If I do this, I will be giving up the opportunity to hear MQA recordings recorded at 24 bit/96 kHz or 24 bit/192 kHz.
I'm confused and always have been about MQA and streaming in general. I have never been able to hear a difference between 44.1 kHz and MQA on Bluesound Node 2. Basically, I don't like Bluesound, and for iOS devices, not at all. Just to mention two things ... If you go to favorites albums in the menu and click one of your favorites, and then you go back to the list, then the navigation will be lost. The list rolls back and you have to navigate down again to where you came from. The other thing is, that the BluOS application is not available on the home screen, when it's locked? It is for Android.
The last thing that (also) confuses me @larry5729 ... There are not 20 albums with Vincent Ingala on Tidal - there are only 5 in my view. What a mess.
what i I was asking is what DAC’s are out that could be hooked up to the Bluesound that can totally unfold MQA and be controlled remotely by iPhone,iPad and PC Notebook without having to get out of a chair to change to another album?
I do own a Project Pre Box S2. Since Feb. I also use Tidal HiFi. I "hear" a difference between the single unfold and the full unfold (which makes the Pre Box show a blue indicator). There are several settings that need to be correctly aligned in addition to the HiFi subscription to get the Master MQA stream. The dealer is correct regarding the USB connection. It is required for the full unfold. But unless you have all the settings correct, you can actually have the single unfold playing...and you wonder what happened to change the character of the sound from the last time you played that song in full MQA. I'm satisfied with the Pre Box sound in general after having changed the filter settings a few times, even though its relatively low priced. I only use it with Tidal but can stream to a different external DACs in my setup without MQA by using optical. Without any comment on the licensing strategy, I would prefer either full MQA unfold or non MQA....but not the single unfold. However, I am doubtful in other postings from different threads (not these) of whether people have actually heard the full unfold of MQA or just used a box that was MQA enabled. To bypass the rubbish and before considering any MQA DAC (mine was a birthday present), I had R&D invested in a handheld player that had MQA as one of its many features (included the latest hi-end dual DACs, one per channel, which beat everything I already have except my Esoteric). And as most people know, MQA encapsulated albums can be purchased and downloaded at various sites on the web. I downloaded 3 of my most listened albums / artists and took them and my handheld player on vacation. Then, I also had a teenager listen to the MQA version of the one album they were familiar with and give me commentary. Only after having spent headphone time and nothing else but the handheld did I decide there could be a difference. From there I could venture to integrate some MQA option into my system. Additionally, before trying to integrate any MQA DAC, I had Tidal app installed on my handheld (not a phone) and was able to easily flip through songs and playlists there, feeding it directly into my system as decoded 2 channel MQA as analog inputs....which I was also happy with. In the end, having a computer in your listening room can add noise (computer fan) and you have to make other settings to make the exclusive MQA mode work correctly. It's a little clunky, unless you sit at your computer or if you have a laptop and then a USB cord running to your system. Some vendors like Schitt have totally rejected MQA and it still seems to be finding purchase in the audiophile market. Personally, I like the options given no one truly agrees on analog vs. digital, streaming vs. non-streaming because most of it gets caught up in irrelevant issues regarding setup, equipment or apathy. The Pre Box is useful at its price point for dipping into MQA, but I invested in more direct paths as proof of concept (and took the listening opinions of others in my circle) before adding yet more electronics to my system. To me MQA seems like psychoacoustics, but in reading the specs, that's not what it is. I'm not sure I would sink real money into an MQA enabled DAC at this point but the Pre Box seemed like a reasonable way to go early this year if wanting a simple path requiring some user involvement. If not already received as a present, I would have purchased it.
I don’t care about it. It is a lossy method of squeezing a high rez file into a Redbook container. Why? There are plenty of high rez containers. I can stream 4K video into my house. High rez audio isn’t even a challenge. I’m not sure resolutions above Redbook even matter. MQA is an attempt to make money answering a question no one was asking. Audiophile claims that a decoded MQA file sounds better than the original high rez file are baloney.
I just got my Bluesound set up. John at Bluesound is terrific. I set up my the app and Tidal looks the same as it does on my Apple TV. Like it best on my PC.
Are any of you familiar with the Bel Canto eOne streamer. If so, is it worth triple the price of a Bluesound?
I use Tidal through the Roon interface. My DAC doesn’t do the final unfold but i think it sounds great. Chain is Innuos Zenith III to Lyngdorf 3400 to Vandersteen Treos. I auditioned Qobuz and I liked Tidal better my 2 cents.
Kind of like the "digital vs. vinyl" discussion in another thread, it doesn't have to be either/or. I have both Tidal and Qobuz (and Spotify and Pandora too). From a pure sound quality standpoint, I prefer Qobuz. I also dislike the idea of having to buy specific hardware to get the "best" quality. Tidal has a bigger selection and there are some things about its interface I like better than Qobuz, like the "My Mix" selections.
Both Tidal and Qobuz sound really good even at CD quality and both MQA and Hi Res sound great. MQA content sounds great even with my non-MQA DACs.
I doubt that I could tell which was which if you were to blindfold me.
It's a lot like my other hobby - photography. People get caught up in brand wars, debates about file formats (RAW vs. JPG), and more. At the end of the day, I don't think there's a photographer out there that could look at an image and say what camera it was made with or if it was processed in RAW or as a JPG.
Bob, technically, you're correct as both phones and tablets are "computers". I have the desktop app on my PC also and can control the Bluesound from there, but it isn't required. I almost always use my phone or tablet. In fact, I just downloaded the PC app yesterday.
The interface for the Bluesound has to be run on some kind of device.
Larry was talking about having to physically go to his computer, which you don't have to do with a phone or tablet (or laptop).
@big greg @2psyop . I use a Bluesound Node and control it with a PC desktop app. Though you could use an Android or Iphone, too. Either way, there is a computer. I don't any other way to play music through the Node. Bob
Big_Greg is correct. You don’t need the computer. That is why the Node2 was designed as a one-in-all player. The Bluesound is a DAC and streamer all in one. It can be linked to a NAS or your own library of music as well, but one does not have to do this. I was surprised by how good the DAC inside the Bluesound sounded. I am using a Node 2 for playing non-MQA and MQA material and it sounds fantastic. Not every album sounds good in MQA. Just like the old analog mastered albums, some good recordings, some not so good.
I am not sure I understand the MQA take-a-side argument. It is just another format to try, see how you like it. If not, try something else??? Am I believer?!? In MQA. That makes the format sound like a cult, or UFO, or elves ....which is kind of ridiculous.
Reel to Reel tapes, Betamax, cassette tapes, mini-discs, CD, turntables, aiff, FLAC, wav, streaming .....just another way to listen to music... not the end all, be all for music recording.
I personally would not invest in equipment with MQA because I don't want to be tied to what Tidal decides to stream in that format. And lately their new releases in classical is a couple of months behind Qobuz...
Larry, I think you're confused about a couple of things.
First, you shouldn't need a PC in the chain. You stream music from the Bluesound Node 2 directly to your Arcam or you can run it to the Pro-Ject DAC via a coax cable and connect the DAC to the Arcam. You may find the Node 2i's DAC is as good or better than the Pro-Ject DAC. Either way, you should be able to get a full unfold of the MQA files.
The Bluesound app will control streaming from music services like Tidal, Qobuz, Radio Paradise, etc. as well as stream music from your home network if you have files that you have shared on your network. The DAC just converts digital signals to analog and passes them to the Arcam. There's nothing to control on the DAC.
I am enjoying MQA Masters from Tidal. That first unfold provided by the Tidal app is all I need. More detail, kick drum sounds more real and the leading and trailing edge of bass notes are particularly well defined.
It hasn’t cost me anything to listen to thousands of Hi-Res tracks I would have had to purchase otherwise. I subscribed to Tidal well before MQA Masters were added to their library.
Count me as a believer in MQA. In general I like what I hear.
I enjoy Qobuz also and listen to their Hi-Res selections as well. Good stuff.
My disclaimer is that I don’t have near the time or money invested in my hifi and music collection as a lot of others here do. I just like picking an album to play and if I wonder what the format is due to something I am hearing, I will investigate. Otherwise it’s just the bliss of good tunes.
I am enjoying hi-res in all the formats and consider my subscriptions to Tidal and Qobuz a bargain.
What I was referring to is the only way I can hear complete unfold using the Pro-Ject S2 DAC is to hook my PC computer to it via USB. I wish I could understand more how it works because the dealer did not explain it well to me because he does not believe in MQA.
I am going to try using the Bluesound Node 2i hooked up RCA analogue to ARCAM and see how it sounds. The technical people at Harmon Industries told me the DAC inside the Bluesound is better than the DAC inside my ARCAM AVR550.
I might be better off saving up my money for a DAC that can do the complete MQA unfold and be controlled by an iPhone, iPad or PC. I think the Pro-Ject RS2 DAC has the ability to do this. Wonder if anyone has experience with this DAC or if they have any ideas to offer to recommend a DAC that doesn't cost a fortune.
I have not yet opened the Bluesound box and I wonder if I should have gone with the Bel Canto eOne streamer. Wonder if that has a better DAC than the Bluesound and perhaps that is why that dealer told me to buy that and not the Bluesound. It retails for $1,600 and I wonder if the increased sell price is worth the money over the $499 Bluesound Node 2I?
I’m indifferent on MQA, but I don’t necessarily think it’s fair to judge it based on the output of a Bluesound product, just because the DAC there IMO really isn’t strong enough to get the full benefit of the hi-res music recorded under the MQA.
I’ve got a Powernode 2 (full MQA) and separately a Teac NT-505, also full MQA. The difference between the two is night and day, though granted one is a $2k product and one is $800. The Teac uses dual AK 4497 while the Bluesound uses (and the 2i versions also still use) a dated TI/Burr Brown lower quality DAC chips. Also, the analog output section of the Teac is far superior to the Bluesound.
For further context, I also have an Integra DTM-7 (full MQA), and again, like the Bluesound, it's DAC really isn't strong enough to unlock all of the goodness of Hi-Res via Tidal MQA, even though it's fully certified etc full MQA.
IMO it really doesn't make sense for MQA to be be licensing to lower quality DACs like Bluesound/Integra DTM-7 because the MQA hi-res experience will kinda necessarily be underwhelming with that level of DAC, and it's really nothing to do with MQA. (But of course not hard to figure out why they license to a high-volume company like Bluesound).
Tidal is my only source for all systems so I can’t really compare it’s hi-res content via MQA versus qobuz or hi-res downloads, fwiw.
All I’m saying is that were Bluesound my only reference for MQA, I’d be very underwhelmed, whereas with the Teac I am floored by the fantastic quality of Masters Tidal via MQA.
Bottom line, anyone looking for pheneomenal MQA/hi-res I'd suggest Teac NT-505 streamer/dac/preamp for $2k it's really really good. (also not knocking the cheaper products (I own them and like them for their modest cost) just not really suited to hi res MQA IMO).
I wouldn't say I'm "embracing" MQA, but I don't hate it either. I think it sounds better than a CD quality file even with a non MQA DAC just letting Tidal's app do the first unfold. I prefer hi-res files on Qobuz where I don't need a special device to get "all" of the MQA "magic". I bought a MQA enabled DAC to see if there is a big difference, and there isn't to my ears.
Your Bluesound will unfold MQA files if you use the analog outs. I don't understand your statement that you can't control the Bluesound when running the sound through a DAC. I do exactly that using my phone or tablet on two of my systems - Bluesound Node 2 ----> DAC ----> Preamp.
I’ve been far happier with qobuz. Not too many mqa albums that I listened to. Hi Res files on Qobuz is a different story. Michael Jackson sounds really good on Qobuz Hi Res; same with Norah Jones. I can find quite a bit of edm in Hi Res on Qobuz. When I type Mozart in Qobuz’ search engine it doesn’t bring up a rapper, like in Tidal.
I thought if you play a Bluesound Node 2i RCA (analogue out) through a DAC on a receiver or an amplifier that is not MQA certified, it automatically defaults back to 24/88.2 because this is only one MQA unfold.
If I were to connect the Bluesound Node 2i by way of digital coax to the Chord 2qute, will I be able to unfold MQA completely and be able to operate the Bluesound remotely by way of iPhone, iPad and PC. If so, I wonder how this would sound. I hear all of the market hype about MQA and about how great it is to be able to hear music the way it sounded when it was mixed in the studio. However, maybe it is just hype, as so many audiophiles seem to not be impressed. If I play play the Bluesound Node 2i through the Pro-Ject S2 DAC I WILL be hearing one MQA unfold, for whatever that is worth.
I would be completely satisfied with being able to hear 24/96. However, again, I would guess it would be nearly impossible to detect any sound quality difference between 24/88.2 and 24/96.
I have thought about switching from TIDAL to QOBUZ, but QOBUZ just doesn't have much of a library. For example, TIDAL has 20 albums by Vincent Ingala and QOBUZ has only one. However, I will most likely switch once QUOBUZ's library is the size of TIDAL. What TIDAL should do is upgrade their Hi-Fi songs to play 24/96 and 24/192. They could crush Qobuz if they did this.
I've done the A/B twice with MQA - once with my Node 2 analog out vs Chord 2qute and once with a Node 2i analog out vs Schitt Yggdrasil and the outboard DAC easily won both times playing at 24/96.
It's an easy A/B to set up see what your ears like. Depending on the DAC and cabling you may even prefer the sound of the Node 2i which is quite capable on its own.
Thanks everyone. I had hoped to hear 24/192, but probably would not detect much of a difference between that and 24/88.2 anyway. When playing the Bluesound through RCA, it sounded harsher than through through the DAC. Bass sounded more boomy and cymbals with less detail. However, what would the Bluesound sound through a more expensive DAC that can be controlled remotely controlled by my iPone or PC. Perhaps, you might know of an affordable option.
Maybe the Pro-Ject RS2 would be a good option. Be worth saving up for because I am not about to connect my PC to DAC and get up every time to change a song.
i feel like Elizabeth too.
i would still like to hear MQA played through a nice DAC. Developer of MQA figured out how to make a buck from multiple income streams.
I have a Mytek Brooklyn which was one of the first fully MQA compatible DACs out there. I've disabled it and never looked back.
As I've written before, MQA is to my mind, about 20 years too late. 20 years ago DACs playing Redbook just did not sound very good. Now that has greatly improved to the point where the best DACs make high resolution files a lot less important to me. I spent time with an older ARC DAC 8 and the Mytek, but other DACs I've heard more casually confirm this. Something about new DACs, perhaps better and cheaper clocks, perhaps better jitter reduction, has shifted things. With the ARC 8 I had to use high resolution files for it to sound good. The red book did not. With the Mytek, this delta in performance really disappeared.
I talked to a few audiophiles at the SF audiophile society and they basically concurred, they could not find an improvement. And yes, I agree, the performance of the DAC in terms of it's output stage is FAR more important to me now than MQA or even the original file resolution.
I agree with your dealer. I think of MQA as the Dolby of the 21st century. Though it sounds nice on paper, why do I have to buy equipment to fully extract the beautiful sound? - Oh yes, money... I will take either a high resolution track, or use my Memory Player Mini, thank you. Bob
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