Thanks everyone. I had hoped to hear 24/192, but probably would not detect much of a difference between that and 24/88.2 anyway. When playing the Bluesound through RCA, it sounded harsher than through through the DAC. Bass sounded more boomy and cymbals with less detail. However, what would the Bluesound sound through a more expensive DAC that can be controlled remotely controlled by my iPone or PC. Perhaps, you might know of an affordable option.
Maybe the Pro-Ject RS2 would be a good option. Be worth saving up for because I am not about to connect my PC to DAC and get up every time to change a song.
i feel like Elizabeth too.
i would still like to hear MQA played through a nice DAC. Developer of MQA figured out how to make a buck from multiple income streams.
Thanks again everyone!
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audiojedi,
I thought if you play a Bluesound Node 2i RCA (analogue out) through a DAC on a receiver or an amplifier that is not MQA certified, it automatically defaults back to 24/88.2 because this is only one MQA unfold.
If I were to connect the Bluesound Node 2i by way of digital coax to the Chord 2qute, will I be able to unfold MQA completely and be able to operate the Bluesound remotely by way of iPhone, iPad and PC. If so, I wonder how this would sound. I hear all of the market hype about MQA and about how great it is to be able to hear music the way it sounded when it was mixed in the studio. However, maybe it is just hype, as so many audiophiles seem to not be impressed. If I play play the Bluesound Node 2i through the Pro-Ject S2 DAC I WILL be hearing one MQA unfold, for whatever that is worth.
I would be completely satisfied with being able to hear 24/96. However, again, I would guess it would be nearly impossible to detect any sound quality difference between 24/88.2 and 24/96.
I have thought about switching from TIDAL to QOBUZ, but QOBUZ just doesn't have much of a library. For example, TIDAL has 20 albums by Vincent Ingala and QOBUZ has only one. However, I will most likely switch once QUOBUZ's library is the size of TIDAL. What TIDAL should do is upgrade their Hi-Fi songs to play 24/96 and 24/192. They could crush Qobuz if they did this.
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big_greg,
What I was referring to is the only way I can hear complete unfold using the Pro-Ject S2 DAC is to hook my PC computer to it via USB. I wish I could understand more how it works because the dealer did not explain it well to me because he does not believe in MQA.
I am going to try using the Bluesound Node 2i hooked up RCA analogue to ARCAM and see how it sounds. The technical people at Harmon Industries told me the DAC inside the Bluesound is better than the DAC inside my ARCAM AVR550.
I might be better off saving up my money for a DAC that can do the complete MQA unfold and be controlled by an iPhone, iPad or PC. I think the Pro-Ject RS2 DAC has the ability to do this. Wonder if anyone has experience with this DAC or if they have any ideas to offer to recommend a DAC that doesn't cost a fortune.
I have not yet opened the Bluesound box and I wonder if I should have gone with the Bel Canto eOne streamer. Wonder if that has a better DAC than the Bluesound and perhaps that is why that dealer told me to buy that and not the Bluesound. It retails for $1,600 and I wonder if the increased sell price is worth the money over the $499 Bluesound Node 2I? |
If I continue to use my Bluesound, what MQA DAC would you hook up to it so I could control the Bluesound by way of iPhone, iPad and PC notebook?
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I just got my Bluesound set up. John at Bluesound is terrific. I set up my the app and Tidal looks the same as it does on my Apple TV. Like it best on my PC.
Are any of you familiar with the Bel Canto eOne streamer. If so, is it worth triple the price of a Bluesound?
You guys are great!
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Hi David,
what i I was asking is what DAC’s are out that could be hooked up to the Bluesound that can totally unfold MQA and be controlled remotely by iPhone,iPad and PC Notebook without having to get out of a chair to change to another album?
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David,
Sorry for the confusion about the number of Albums Vincent Ingala has put out. You are correct, it is 5 albums. I had him confused with Herbie Hancock.
By the way, I was at the RMAF two weeks ago and I asked several exhibitors to play Vincent Ingala's song Nasty on his Coast to Coast song and before I knew it exhibitors were playing it by other exhibitors. This is an incredible demo song. I also had them play Herbie Hancock's song Watermelon Man on his Head Hunters album. That too was played by a lot of exhibitors. Great demo song for bass and separation. Really shows off speakers. I play these two songs when I want to hear what my system can do. Sure glad I added a pair of REL S3 SHO's to my system. Still dialing them in to make them seamless.
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Big Greg,
I was talking about improving the sound quality of the DAC inside the Bluesound and being able to control TiDAl remotely by use of my iPhone and PC notebook. Eventually, I will add a DAC in the $1,500 to $2,000 range to unveil more of what is there in MQA recordings. I also am not hung up on MQA. All I care about is being able to hear more detail and to play more 24 bit hi res recordings.
Again, everyone has really helped me to understand what I can do. Still wonder if anyone owns the Bel Canto eOne stream? Does this piece, costing triple the price of a Bluesound really sound better than the base sound of both units being connected RCA analogue? So far, I think adding a Chord DAC to the equation might be a good move down the road should I decide to give up on MQA. The jury is out on MQA anyway, as there are a lot of us who resent someone developing a format to take revenues from multiple sources. If MQA becomes the norm, this guy is going to be rich, if he isn't already. |
I added a Pro-Ject S2 DAC to my Bluesound Node 2i yesterday and I am not sure I like the new sound. I seems to sound brighter and produces more bass. I think the bass is more punchy and the highs are brighter. To me, it sounds harsher, unless I am hearing some of the detail I have not been hearing for the past 3 1/2 years. I thought the Bluesound connected RCA (analogue) to my ARCAM sounded really good. I think it might have sounded less harsh.
According to the Pro-Ject specifications, it says it can do MQA. So, if that is the case, why did the dealer tell me when I connect the Bluesound digital coax to the Pro-Ject DAC and then RCA's to the back of my ARCAM I will not be hearing the complete unfold of MQA. If that is the case, I will then hear one unfold and the highest resolution I will hear then will be 24 bit/88.2 kHz. Why if the Pro-Ject is rated as MQA certified wouldn't MQA be passed through completely unfolded to my ARCAM. This sure is confusing for someone like myself who is new to this hobby. Maybe someone could explain this to me so I can understand. So far, no one has been able to do so.
With Amazon Music Unlimited HD launching 2 days ago, I thought I would try adding a DAC so I could hear more songs 24/192, as it appears they offer more 24 bit albums than what TIDAL is offering. For example, a Herbie Hancock album offered by TIDAL offers this album in CD quality (16/44.1) and the same album offered by Amazon Music is in 24/192. If this is the case, why then be concerned with MQA? What is the difference between listening to a FLAC recording done in 24/192 and the same recording done in MQA 24/192? What would MQA do to that same recording to make it sound different? |
Brian,
I really appreciate your insight since you are a music master engineer.
How are most recordings made. Are they recorded in 32 bit 192 kHz to begin with and then the recording studio copies 24 bit/192 kHz or 24 bit/96 kHz to a DVD or disk that can fit the greater amount of data and copy to a lower 16 bit/44.1 kHz to fit on a standard CD. What then does MQA do that is different if it offers an original recording let's say in 24/96? Isn't this going to sound exactly the same as any CD you pick off the shelf of the same recording done in 24/96 and pay more for the high res recording compared to the same recording sell on the shelf that is 16/44.1? Is this what you are trying to say?
As a rookie starting out in this hobby I am beginning to begin to understand bit rates and sample rates. I am also having problem hearing the difference between 16 bit and 24 bit recordings. Maybe I am deaf. The only thing I think I am hearing when hearing 24 bit is a bit more space and dimension. However, maybe this is similar to THE EMPORER'S NEW CLOTHS phenomenon.
I just connected a Pro-Ject S2 DAC to my Bluesound Node 2i after Amazon launched Amazon Music Unlimited HD. I felt maybe the DAC is better than the DAC inside the DAC inside the Bluesound. So far, I think it might sound more harsh after adding the Pro-Ject DAC. Wonder if the Pro-Ject DAC emphasizes highs and the Bluesound is more neutral or is it I am hearing more detail compared to the Bluesound DAC and the DAC inside my ARCAM? I called ARCAM and they told me the DAC inside the Bluesound was better than the DAC chip they put inside my ARCAM? He said it can process more and since it has more processors, resistors, etc. than what they can fit inside the ARCAM, it should sound better. My thinking was then maybe the stand alone Pro-Ject DAC, which has even more things inside than perhaps the Bluesound, maybe this will sound better than the DAC inside the Bluesound.
Several dealers and manufacturers at the RMAF told me what I am listening to remember everything I am hearing is the DAC.
Not too confusing! I wonder what you would do if you were in my shoes. Would you just connect the Bluesound via RCA analogue to my ARCAM or would you have connected the Bluesound via digital coax to a DAC like an affordable Pro-Ject S2 DAC and connect the DAC via RCA analogue to my ARCAM. What in your opinion sounds better. From what I can determine is if you want to hear MQA and in a completely unfolded format, you need to just hook up the Bluesound RCA's to the ARCAM. I have a TIDAL subscription and I wanted to take advantage of the MQA technology. However, dealers told me to forget MQA and either add a DAC to the mix that is better than the DAC inside the Bluesound and hear 1 unfold at 24/88.2 or take out a subscription to Qobuz and be able to take advantage of some of their recordings offered in 24/96 and 24/192.
I do think MQA could be just smoke and mirrors and a way to generate a lot of revenue from multiple sources by inventing a way to fold data and then in order to completely unfold it during the streaming process, you need to purchase expensive equipment.
I will look forward to hearing some responses to this post. I must say, I am embarrassed to ask what might be stupid questions.
Sorry for the long post. I just need to learn what some of you experts have learned already. Some of you are highly technical and I really am fascinated by your knowledge.
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Why would Pro-Ject bother to manufacture their DAC MQA certified if it breaks the MQA unfolding chain? To get MQA in the first place, you need to stream music through some sort of music streamer that is MQA certified? What the dealer told me again does not make sense? Hope someone can come up with the right information. If connecting the Bluesound to the Pro-Ject DAC breaks the MQA chain then my did Pro-Ject bother to manufacture their DAC MQA in the first place? |
Do you have a Bluesound? If you do, did you connect it digital coax to an external DAC to your amplifier or receiver?
The Bluesound can play up to 32 bit just like my DAC. i have switched the RCA's back and forth between the Bluesound and the Pro-Ject S2 DAC and I think the bass sounds tighter and the highs more detailed than the Bluesound DAC. However, when I select an album from Tidal that is MQA recorded at 24/192, the maximum bit and sample rate I will hear is 24/88.2. I still might go back to using just the Bluesound and hear this supposedly superior quality MQA sound. I it difficult to know by using the DAC I am only able to hear up to 24/88.2. However, I just can't hear the difference playing MQA. I think most hi res music must be released in 24/96 and 24/192 is kind of rare.
Amazon's roll out of their Amazon Music Unlimited HD prompted me to try the DAC because they offer Ultra HD up to 24/192 and they don't offer MQA. So, if I stream a Ultra HD song at 24/192, it won't matter because I will get the full benefit of 24/192. If this is the case, Based on this, I should have purchased an ARCAM R-Play streamer and connected that anaologue. The frequency response plays down to 29 Hz and I wouldn't have had to add a DAC. |
I have been thinking since the Bluesound is MQA certified and the Pro-Ject S2 DAC is MQA certified, why would the dealer I purchased the Pro-Ject DAC tell me by connecting the Bluesound by way of digital coax to the Pro-Ject DAC which is also MQA certified why I will not be able to realize the complete unfold of MQA since I am transferring electronic data from one device to another. This does not seem intuitive, unless the dealer is wrong about this statement. If the dealer is correct, why then didn't the manufacturer of the Project design their DAC with an RCA in and an RCA out. It must have something to do with with the digital coax cable bridging the two devices?
When I attached the DAC to the Bluesound it delivered more treble and I was not sure I liked the sound. However, I began to think maybe the increased detail in the highs is what is in the recording and this is the first time I have heard my tweeters deliver greater detail in both the highs and mid voicing. I began to notice the shimmer sound of the cymbals for the first time. When switching back between playing the Bluesound analogue out to my ARCAM, I also noticed the Bluesound sounds more bassy and more boomy. When playing the DAC has a much tighter BASS. Since I added two REL S3 SHO subs to my system, I have plenty of bass to work with. Perhaps recalibrate the gain to achieve slightly more bass if needed.
Hope you guys can let me is the dealer correct or is my thinking correct, as I had hoped to hear the MQA offered by TIDAL. |
Here are the specs for the Pro-Ject:
Features - Dual mono construction
- High end ESS Sabre ESS9038 dual DAC
- Proprietary clock circuity design
- Organic polymer capacitors and thin film miniMELF resistors
- MQA hardware decoding
- DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 & DSD512 (DoP, DSD512 native)
- Up to 24bit/192kHz for optical & coax inputs
- 8 selectable digital filter characteristics
- 1 proprietary optimum transient digital filter
- Headphone output on the front (6.3mm)
- Synchronization of all internal oscillators
- Jitter as low as 100 Femtoseconds!
- Gold plated four layer PCB
- Full alu/metal sandwich casing in silver or black
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Hi Audio Jedi,
I thought MQA played through a non certified MQA DAC defaults to 24/88.2 max vs the 24/96 you posted? |
bkepke,
I did not realize there was a Bel Canto room at the 2019 RMAF? I looked for them in the directory and was unable to see them listed as an exhibitor. I really wanted to meet with them. I wonder if you were referring to the 2018 show?
I wanted to go with the Bel Canto eOne streamer, but triple the price of a Bluesound was a budgetary concern. I had just purchased a pair of REL S3 SHO's and adding another $1,600 would have really upset my wife. I wonder how many of us have a wife factor to contend with? |
By adding a Pro-Ject S2 DAC to my Bluesound Node 2i, what will I loose in sound quality by breaking up the MQA chain? Does the external DAC filter frequencies out or does it add frequencies to enhance tighter bass and more detailed highs?
Why do songs sound bassier by using the Bluesound only?
Maybe I need lessons in learning what to listen for in order to determine which is better. Would the Bel Canto eOne streamer played by itself by way of RCA connection sounded better than the Bluesound for triple the price? It is difficult to compare when dealers do not carry both Bluesound and Bel Canto to compare. If I had been the Bel Canto dealer in town, I would have run out and purchased a Bluesound Node 2i to allow customers to hear the difference if I knew the Bel Canto would win hands down. This would have made it easier for me to have made my decision. |
No one has explained why connecting a Bluesound (MQA certified device) to a Pro-Ject S2 (also MQA certified device) by way of digital coax cable destroys the full unfolding of MQA when both devices are MQA certified. |
Cycles2,
I wonder if you are familiar with the Bel Canto eOne streamer. A Bel Canto dealer told me the Bluesound is an applance and the Bel Canto an audiophile piece. For triple the price, could I have heard a significant difference.
At the dealer where I purchased my Bluesound Node 2i, he told me to connect the Bluesound using Audioquest Carbon digital coax to a Pro-Ject S2 DAC because the Pro-Ject DAC is better than the DAC inside the Bluesound. I traded my 40 year old speakers for the cable and the DAC and after I got things connected at home, I think the Bluesound played by itself sound better and warmer when playing an MQA song on TIDAL. If I decide to throw away the cable and the DAC I am out about $600 total.
What would you do in my position. I just purchased a pair of S3 Rel subs and my budget is just so much. |
