How many NICE looking high end floor standing speaker are there at present
Hi, Sometimes when I dream, imagining of replacing my current 1997 Burmester 961 speakers, before maybe COVID19 is sending me to an early grave - I'm practically only stumbling on ugly often even like somehow crippled looking speaker creations. Test will say, sounding fantastically gorgeous and - looking like 💩. This, or par tout looking like some or other children's coffin ⚰. 😥👻
Not for the life of it, can I imagine ever having some such 'creation' invading my daily living space. Ever.
Talking 'bout a BAD WAF situation, I say.
Some makers are trying to improve on this tragic situation with creations looking far too anatomical or something alien👾 fruit thing hanging off a tree... handle an' all.
Is there no hope out there at all...? 🤔
So can one savely move on forgetting about a replacement, still in this here life, and saving the money 💰 ?
Well, the budget <= max 20k $ lets say, so I won't risk starving before the lockdown will end ever. 😱
Once you decide on how much you can spend on speakers, the question becomes one of how you want to have that divided between aesthetics and performance.
Vandersteen is probably the king of functionality - spend all the money on performance and when you have your speaker done, stick it in a sock wasting very little of the budget on looks.
Other end? Probably the Italians, but that different weighing of aesthetics over sound is also covered in North America by people like Avalon.
Question is, would you rather have speakers that have the finish of a Stradivarius violin, or one that put more emphasis on sound quality. At any given price level, my preference would always go to performance over beauty. The only sound room I have that arguably reflects both has Martin Logan CLS which seem to have managed a nice balance of both.
Now, why don't I like front firing smallish woofers? (in 3 way designs...)
I subscribe (from own experience) to this finding, that woofers still transmit some degree of >= midrange frequencies, - of course also depending on the type of xover/slope.
Side firing woofers do this of course also, 8", 10" etc. — BUT it is ~ 90° out of your listening line and thereby pretty much out of ear shot.
We pack a lot of science and technology in our Persona’s, but can’t speak to what the sonic differences would be relative to your current speakers?
Speakers are instruments and much like a piano, what brand it is and who is playing it and how they are playing it can affect everything. Your Electronics are the person playing the instrument. So, the instrument can either reveal how bad a player they have in front of it, or it can create some magical synergy that works really well. The instrument will not, however, make up for a person who doesn't play well. I can elaborate on that analogy much further if needed...
We make every part of the Personas in our Factory in Mississauga Canada with the exception of the Beryllium Tweeter diaphragm and Midrange cone which is supplied by the Materion Corporation here in the US. The Beryllium is mined in Utah and processed in Ohio and put into sheets and formed in California, then ultimately sent to us to mate to our motor systems.
The woofers are actually misleading in terms of output because we have a technology referred to as ART (Active Ridge Technology):
Standard driver surrounds are unreliable rubber, glued or otherwise adhered to the driver and the chassis. Move too far too fast, and you risk a cone-destroying breach.
Paradigm’s patented† Active Ridge Technology (ART) surrounds are "overmolded" directly onto the driver cones, and made of audiophile-grade injection-molded thermoplastic elastomer.
This more durable, more tenacious union between driver and chassis allows for much greater excursion with no chance of breach, ensuring a long life of high performance.
Added benefit: Drivers attached via ART Surrounds achieve an astounding, measurable 3dB gain in output and 50% reduction in distortion.
† US patents: D654,479S and 8,340,340B2.
+3dB per driver is the equivalent of doubling the amount of drivers per cabinet from an output perspective, and reduces the amount of distortion due to that improved linearity. You can’t see it, but there is also a port that vents out of the bottom of the cabinet in the gap between it and the base plate.
Our PPA (Perforated Phase Alignment) Lenses which cover the Tweeter & Midrange:
High frequencies tend to congregate, and can sound muddled, obscuring details and shrouding image clarity. A phase plug guides high frequency response to avoid interaction.
Paradigm engineers improved on the standard phase plug with their distinctive (and patented†) Perforated Phase-Aligning (PPA™) driver lens.
Situated in front of the tweeter and midrange drivers, the PPA acts like a phase plug, blocking the interaction of out-of-phase frequencies, smoothing output, and increasing the perception of details without coloring the sound.
The PPA also serves to protect delicate drivers.
† US patent: 10,003,869.
Having the Lens Covers adds approximately +1.5dB of added output due to the phase cancellations of the tweeter. These speakers have an incredibly wide dispersion as a result and will still sound really pleasant when moving around a room or sitting off axis. Obviously, when they’re dialed in properly from the main listening position, that is when it’s always the best!
Thank you again for your consideration Michelle and please don’t hesitate to direct message me if you need any further help!
In regards to your side-firing woofer bias, Drivers need to work in unison. A drum set doesn't have the kick drum or the snare drum turned sideways or off to the side to throw the hit a different direction. Good crossover networks, particularly our electro-acoustic crossovers help all of our drivers work as though they sound as one, not a disjointed or convoluted mess.
The crossover coordinates it all, like the conductor of a massive symphony orchestra (and choir). Crossovers are judged by their attention to detail, precision and speed. They must live up to an audio ideal: accuracy and transparency, and realistic frequency blending, all achieved by the perfectly engineered slope.
Paradigm multi-element frequency and phase-coherent crossover networks are purpose-designed for each speaker model. They are handcrafted of high-power, close-tolerance components, like polypropylene capacitors and air-core coils, each selected for their superior performance and reliability.
Our crossovers are specially "voiced" for enhanced mid-range clarity, with proprietary topology that produces vanishingly low distortion and achieves seamless dynamic integration.
This kind of precision tuning preserves even the most microscopic sonic nuances, while easily handling the full audio spectrum of even the most challenging sources.
Paradigm crossovers are engineered to deliver sound of unparalleled purity, precision, clarity, and openness — a sonic performance that virtually eliminates the speaker from the equation, leaving only the sound you want to hear.
My wife would laugh at this thread. I'll get whatever I want, but I do always think about what she wouldn't mind. I too like a great auto painted finish right now and I used to build wood furniture for the house and can do veneering (a specialty to say the least). I use plants to hide the Audioquest Niagara power strip and the Hurricane cords (three large woven cables to make the cord) as well as the double, true bi wire run of speaker cables. I sent back a pair of granite bases I had custom made for my Vandy Quatro's as they didn't route the bevel the size I told them to. There are too many great products on the market not to be able to get a speaker that looks great to you (not just you talking yourself into it) and also sounds great.
I asked my audio buddies this question and so far 5 have come back saying that looks do matter to them just as my as sound does. I honestly don't feel it's just a gender deal at all.
It kinda depends on your taste in furniture; some (like me) prefer a minimalist look, whereas others like a more "decorated" exterior. I've been happy sitting looking at my Vandersteen Treo CTs for some years now. All of his speakers except the Model 2 have a similar, slab-sided truncated-pyramid look, and a high-quality exterior finish.
How about something from Shahinian Acoustics, Obelisk, small in stature, big in sound, depending on favorite types of music. Looks not so much like a conventional speaker. With a little more room available, maybe his Hawk assembly. Have both, one in main (Hawks) one in second system. As soon as music starts, they disappear
Well, amazing, all the odds and ends of speaker 'cabinet' designs coming out of the woodworks. Some more familiar, some not so much.
Many van der Steen (vandy) fans I notice. His creations have come a long way, I understand. Thus since I had the opportunity to pull the 'sock' of one of his then creations. Pretty weird, not my thing, leaving quite an impression though. 😊
As for side firing woofers... bass, as we surely have heard is *not directional*. Expanding sphericaly - non-directional, yes? Two side-firing woofers (toward each other), actually reinfore themselfs. The reason why Dieter Burmester had favoured that principle, he'd said. RIP 2015. Woofers then also not too close to the floor! As this would interfere with additional bass 'off timing' floor-reinforment.
Lastly, surely all noticed, percussions/the drum sets, are practically always residing in back of the leading action. Why? So it socks you not right in the face... front firing?
BTW, I have the B961 x-over displayed on my system, apparently Linkwitz type, but clearly seperate high/mid and bass portion and with plenty Mundorf caps + bypass-caps, and resistors (Mills and Kiwame).
@eisen0169, so if you have speakers that look plain and still sound good then you’re good to go 👍. Also, many of us close our eyes while listening to music; another great way to focus in on what you are hearing, not seeing!
interestingly, I was in contact with a man yesterday and today who was going to back out of a speaker purchase and settle for a speaker that he admittedly didn’t think sounded as good because he thought it looked better. When his wife saw him boxing up the better sounding speakers she put a stop to it and said the speakers weren’t going anywhere.
My apologies Michelle, I wasn’t trying to slight the side-firing woofer design, because it’s certainly something we could end up doing down the road in future product. Also, I’m not trying to get caught in the weeds of low frequencies being directional and lower frequencies being non directional. Instruments that play low, like a kick drum, if you couldn’t see it, you can still identify where the sound is coming from like with most instruments that can play low. People’s definition of bass is like their definition of chocolate. How chocolatey do you like your chocolate?
This all comes down to the implementation of the design and reinforces the importance of the crossover. But, like with all speakers, driver material doesn’t matter till you mate it to a motor system. The size of the drivers don’t matter if the motor system is inadequate, the drivers don’t matter if you can’t control the uniformity from the crossover, and none of it matters if you put the drivers and crossover in a poor environment (the cabinet). It all has to work together, but at what price point or particular level of performance is the manufacturer trying to achieve? We have to determine target price points/levels and then execute our plan. It’s our vertical integration that gives us a major advantage over many of our competitors.
When we R&D new products, we still implement double blind listening tests and make our evaluations based on comparing our own products as well as against many of our competitors products.
When you can’t see any of the speakers, many Reviewers, Dealers, and so called “experts” have made some very interesting picks when they’ve visited our factory - many picking ours over significantly more expensive brands and models, but they don’t know until the perforated screen rises. The blind listening tests we do are simply the most fun and plays an integral part of our designs before our products come to market.
Depending on where you’re at Michelle, I hope you’re able to get out and experience many of the speakers people have suggested or what you’re most interested in seeing and hearing. If you’re interested in auditioning a pair of Persona’s and find a Dealer you’d like to visit, please let me know and I can help arrange an appointment if desired. Good luck with your search!
I’m not picky when it comes to aesthetics, but there are some speakers that I wouldn’t want (and couldn't afford anyway) due to their appearance. First, I wouldn’t want speakers so large that they dominate a room. And, while I don’t mean to put down anyone’s taste, some of the Wilson brand speakers remind me of evil androids and it would dampen my music enjoyment if I were to look at them. I don’t think sinister is a good look in audio equipment.
But, of course, we each think differently about such things, so get what you like.
@jnovak I play the violin - studied in conservatory but decided I wanted to make enough money to buy hifi so switched to engineering. 😁 I have to say it’s a hard no on the Lawrence Audio Violins though... :)
Michelle, as a retired audio consultant, I need to always place the sound quality of a speaker ( an entire system, actually ) before aesthetics. I have always maintained a separate, dedicated listening room, and my ex wife knew this of me when we met, and lived together, for 35 years. She knew what she was getting into. However, I do understand the combined audio room / living room situation, and how both the audio reproduction, and the visual aesthetic, need to be shared. This does not need to be compromising, although, as you are quite aware, can be limiting, in your choices. What I have found interesting, reading this thread, is how many posters, made speaker recommendations to you, without looking at your room photo ( panels, JBL 67000, etc. ) which would never work. Michelle, I have known, and helped, only a handful of female audiophiles, in my lifetime. I believe, you know what you like, and will prosper, with your next endeavor. Question for you. Have you ever set up your speakers, with the side woofers facing outward, rather than inward ? ( I understand Burmester recommends them facing inward, but in some rooms / set ups, outward can be better )....Enjoy !, and be well. Always, MrD.
@mrdecibel Ah, a consultant in Audio matters, meet Michélle, IT and Productivity Management consultant a.D. (außer Dienst).😉 Now to the question of outside firing side woofers.
Wouldn't I've tried that? Yes, of course and in all the room settings this speaker was used, this far three, all rather different, the result was - unlistenable. Why?
Bass looses focus completely, bearable with, um, two left ears? 🤔 🙈 😉
Seriously, no good. However, there might be room placements / situations that may work, none I'd encountered this far.
But by all means, it IS a fair question to be asked.
Lucky enough, the 961s don't weigh in at 100kg (actually only 36kg) so even a single female (with some gumption 💪) can move them about, just! 😅 How? One hand in front, one inside that handily placed rear bassreflex-port.
Done like a dinner.😋👍
And thanks again dear, for asking a salient question.
When the wife and I saw Sonus Faber product in the store she said "I want those", before we had a chance to hear them. Talk about high WAF! I was smitten as well, especially after the audition. I have never seen a more finely crafted piece of furniture in my life. I have probably changed my speakers fifteen times but I highly doubt these will leave my listening room in my lifetime. My wife would not allow it!
Hi, the issue regarding panels, electrostats, and dipoles was already answered by me in the negative - and this NOT based on their looks dear. Sorry to disappoint you 😢
What you need is a nice 12" woofer mounted on the front of a nice wide baffle, which will improve wave launch and step response, to say nothing of your reservations about bass.
Yahama NS-5000, Spendor Classic 100, Harbeth 40.2, Graham Audio LS 5/5 all fit the bill.
And please exercise more care in referencing people's A'gon handles.
Also these Karma Elegance (two way speakers) have my vote for a case of: 'what looks good, works well...' The reviews certainly give that idea too. Big time. (Only $1000 odd over $20k...😉)
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