How do you judge audio components and speakers?
I would say - listening to music you're familiar with, and comparing. We can talk about tight/bloomy bass, midrange clarity, treble extension and things of that nature. We can also be very specific with regards to how a particular track is supposed to sound; based on high-performance gear that we were able to experience - but only if it purports to be accurate without sonic colorations. Therefore, I guess you could say we have a reference point. This part is what I would consider "objective performance."
Along with this, measurements go hand-in-hand.
On the other side of the coin - subjective performance is how we "want our systems to sound." If the vocals are too bright or sharp, if snares or unpleasant sounding instrumentals ruin an otherwise good song, it's usually because the system is too accurate. So high-end audio is about chasing an ideal that doesn't exist in reality - but in the minds of audiophiles who are seeking a very particular kind of sonic presentation that bodes well with their music library as a whole....giving you just enough detail to keep you interested, while at the same time having a sense of realism, presence, and imaging that makes the speakers dissapear. We are seeking the illusion of a live performance.
The above are just my points. Feel free to share what you think. If you think I'm wrong, I don't mind.
Cheers.
Jack
You know what? I'm only joking around with you. But you took it too seriously. And you know what else? Your system has tons of relection points that like I wrote on your profile, probably lead to a pseudo-surround effect when you are listening to music. Hence, what you perceive as an "improvement" is actually just nonsense. Sorry if I'm being mean, but that's just the way I am. I call out something if it doesn't look right. |
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@cd318 Sounds more like,”An Audiophile is Born!” |
@cd318 My comments were taken from my autobiography, “Sometimes a Stereo is Just a Stereo!”
Now, now, you’ll start the rest of us off. Oh ok then, I couldn’t resist. My autobiography might be called something like "A Portrait of the Audiophile as a Young Man". A Joycean tale of the adventures of a relative hi-fi novice seeking to lose his audio virginity amongst the seedier and darker corners of audio underground where he gets seduced, exploited and corrupted by older unscrupulous more experienced audio veterans. Along the way he falls for notorious afflictions such as the attempted refrigeration of his discs, playing with dangerously sharp mounting spikes, and of course the obsessive cleaning of his cable. Not a suitable read for youngsters. More of a warning.
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@mahgister its unfortunate that the random, unhinged and irrational child finds their way to audiogon. I’m sorry @jackhifiguy is one of those and saw fit to threaten you through private message.
Hang in there, |
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@cd318 My comments were taken from my autobiography, “Sometimes a Stereo is Just a Stereo!” |
The collective ID of most audiophiles is built from an OCD type hyper fixation combined with a need to gain control over some aspect of their lives, in this case, their audio system. It can be a release, a frustration and a friend. Knowledge is not required, only money and time.
How dare you tarnish so many of us in such a derogatory manner? You don't know who we are, or our life experiences so how can you generalise is such a fashion? In fact I'm going to ask for your post to be struck off. It has no place in a forum such as this.
Upon second thoughts...and a lowering of egocentric defenses. I think you're right, certainly true in my case. Control was a very large part of it back then but I would certainly like to think the pleasure element is more important to me today.
Oh well, it was easier than supporting my local football team...and the rewards were often greater. My apologies and thanks for spelling it out. I hope it helps others too to find the way towards maximum pleasure with the minimum of cost and psychological discomfort. |
There are certain poster that ONLY show up to be a problem for other's, WATCH. No other reason to even post. AND they have NEVER bought a single thing to support AG in ANY WAY.. Shouting is fine, especially when it's not your business. Post your 2 cent's wort. The rest is purely to sucker you into it's goo!!! Swat Splat. Swat Splat!! |
It only takes one person to turn it into one and he's on full display here. However, many/most of the regular posters are not like that and there is a lot of knowledge and experience shared here. I'm surprised the moderators didn't ban the jerk on page one...i thought repeatedly insulting someone led to that ? |
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You are right for sure! But i am human, and i am not used to be insulted here and in my box mail... But you are right about shouting... Thanks for your generous advice ...
My best to you...
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Furthermore, you have completely contradicted what you say is the way you judge audio components--you claim by "listening"---yeet you have never heard Mahgister's system so you are judging solely on looks alone--and apparently have passed that trait along to your son--hopefully he learns that if he's to be a clinical psychologist he can't make his diagnoses based on looks alone as you have. |
Such an odd fellow. Not once have I mentioned or even alluded to mahgister's system. Not once. All my posts are directly related to your passive aggressive foolishness. insulting those who are not even recognizing your existence. How sad it must be to be you, going through life thinking this is an optimal way to act.
Jerk and mean, absolutely. Classy, not in the least. |
I dont know if i am "clinically mentally ill" but i know you are not a gentleman my friend... you insulted me after 25 posts presence in Audiogon , without answering any question or answering any arguments i put for about why acoustic and psaycho-acoustic is important... How shiny is my amplifier and how messy is my own audio room seems to be the way to attack me PERSONALLY... I dont like you and the way you came insulting me even through my personal box mail here... Suppose i am "nut", this alleged fact will not change your tactic with insults instead of discussion... Stop insulting me.... But your last post is more than an insult it is an accusation through insinuation... your character is despicable... by the way what is a "disgrace" to this hobby is not my modified "speakers" set or room but your behaviour... The good news and bad news is if some doctor can psychiatrically treat my case if i am like you suggest, being a "bully" and "ignorant" is not matter for help in medecine....
Now i will go out of your thread BUT STOP INSULTING AND ACCUSING ME when i am not there... IS IT CLEAR?
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@pingstonsmile Believe me I know about the AG change of Gaurd stuff…I was victim of their random censorship on numerous occasions. I honestly just couldn’t follow your rant…your response to me was easier to understand. We all should be talking about the music and what makes listening fun for each of us…sans politics and AG lore. |
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Yes my comments on the primary correlation with weight and secondarily with cost was primarily tongue and cheek. But it is also a real correlation. I have noticed over the decades. I brought this up with my dealer friend that has been selling high systems for thirty years. He agreed and could only think of one exception. I don’t remember what the exception was… I had never heard of it. He sells Mac, Boulder, Luxman, Audio Research, Magico… etc. so has had plenty of exposure. |
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@pingstonsmile Uh, what now? Hard to decipher an incoherent diatribe aimed at a generalized foe in order to justify your life choices. It’s like an anthropologist trying to decipher a newly discovered aboriginal language…which might be a whole lot easier. |
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The "fans" were devices i used years ago, and the gasoline cans as Helmholtz primitive first experiments... Yes i experimented with them.... It was the begininng ... These virtual page is not my actual room... i dont use them anymore... I use tubes , plumbers one or other kind of time from few inches size to 8 feet high with different volumes and use straws of different lenght and perimeter as neck and mouth...
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Classic bully maneuvers. Insult someone then state you're not insulting them. Attack someone then claim you're being attacked. Get branded a bully, insist you're not, then proceed to call those who call you a bully physically inferior losers because you used to 'outlass' them in gym when in high school, which was apparently the high point of his life. Not sure if he meant outclass, or outlast. Either way, just sad.
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Ghdprentice, although your weight comment is a bit tongue in cheek, there probably is a direct correlation between component quality and weight. Well built products don’t skimp on materials that make them solid and well constructed, so weigh more. No rocket science there. My current components all ended up weighing a ton and you can be sure aren’t easily carried up a flight of stairs. Luxman, VPI, Magico, and even Marantz components all can put you in traction if you’re not careful. And I’d wager those components will outlast their lower weight class competitors by a country mile. My newly purchased tonearm is coincidentally a VPI Fatboy, which somehow should fit your criteria too. I probably shouldn’t say this except that it strikes me as funny, but the same principle holds for many great old time opera stars as well. Mike |
Do you run the fans on low, medium, or high -- what effect does each setting have on the sound? Have you experimented with filling the gas can with different levels of fluid? I would think a metal can vs plastic can would make a big difference in sound wave control -- did you try each and if so what were the findings? |
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No, you were called out for being an insulting, know it all tool.
Is that how you see yourself? That would be amusing if it weren't so sad.
"May as well have the opinions of children and high school students to guide me." Well, then. Go away. See how easy that was? Its a win/win! |
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you said:
I’ve heard more BAD room than good by a long shot. Everyone was pretty too. Cost the people 100k and still sound like crap.. Do you think they would listen. NO to busy LOOKING rather than listening. It looks pretty so it has to sound good. 80% of the time it’s not the case..
Oh really? Well you must have a subjective-only view to sound. In that case, I suppose you can’t tell the difference between a costly system and a cheap one, or a .mp3 file and CD quality or high res. You might as well get a bluetooth speaker and be done with it. I speak the truth. Got attacked because some of you disagree with me and that’s fine on the surface...but you all take it way too personally. Reminds me of the fellow students I used to outlass in gym class back in high school. The good old days. I got labelled a bully even though I never picked on anyone or tried to make enemies. And online, all the losers get together and attack the big wolf. Audiophiles are non-technical kooks. And you are the king of the audiophile kooks. Congrats. And you know what? I’m quoting Ken Rockwell. He was right all along. Goes to show that most audiophiles have no idea what good sound actually is - especially here on audiogon and other forum sites. So many of you have no real conceptual understanding of what makes 1 system better than another, except for purely subjective viewpoints. May as well have the opinions of children and high school students to guide me. |
You can have the best equipment you are able to afford, but the room acoustics are the single biggest determinate of how your system will sound. So I try to match the system to the room (generally speaking), with the brightest-sounding going into the room with the most upholstered furniture and bric-a-brac scattered about. The majority of floors in my condo are laminate, so wall treatments are used, along with two large floor-standing absorption panels in one room. Ironically, my highest end system is located in the area where the acoustics are the worst (the dining-area/kitchen), because that is the area where my Vandersteen 3As work the best because of the square footage available (20' x 10'). The floor there is ceramic tile, but the uneven wall surfaces (cabinets) help ameliorate that large negative factor. I am also a big believer in the heavier-is-better theory, because that is usually an indicator of a well-made product (the one exception to that rule in my inventory is a PS Audio HCA-2 amp, which sounds really good and only weighs 30 pounds). The synergy between components also matters more than the quality of any one piece. |
