How Do I Choose A Phono Preamp

Anyone own Whest phono units? Thoughts

I have an Ayre P-5xe which is very clear, clean, transparent and silent it would be worth checking out.

@headphonedreams have a business acquaintance that had one and it only lasted about 1.5 years. The plastic internals became brittle, cracked and connections fell out of the back plate. I know crazy Swedes usually build good stuff. 

The Lejonklou might suit you. Got a very positive review in Stereophile.

@vonhelmholtz +1 for the Goldnote PS-10. I also have the PSU-10. $3K I think.

I'm running the Hana ML at the lowest gain setting which is 62dB and it sounds great, dead quiet. On the fly loading and gain controls for almost any MC or MM cart.

Caveat: The only other PS I have experience with is a long-gone cheap Pro-Ject.

The Lejonklou might suit you. Got a very positive review in Stereophile.

Hi

I can say that VTL makes fantastic products. My amp is amazing the s-400 2 and so i got the VTL 2.5i which is fairly new. It has an msrp of 5k so not cheap but not to expensive. I am blown away by it. So dynamic and natural I really love it. One small tube. I waited 4 months but it was worth it. Bea Lamm the ears behind VTL is an exclusive vinyl listener and it really does great with orchestral music and  jazz and everything i have listened to. A real winner. It was recommended by an audio beat writer and my set up guy. It does not disappoint. They recommended it as it hits way above it’s price point. I had a luxman 590 mark ii with the integrated phono stage before and this is a whole different universe. Just my experience 

Great choice in the MW PH9

I didn't get the PH9x due to the high price.  The RELs, Sutherland preamp, power cords and interconnects were already pushing 10K and I didn't want to spend any more to upgrade subs, or the phono preamp.  It was a compromise.  Should the 20/20 Mk2 be a minimal improvement to my integrated phono section, then I'll revisit the Modwright.

Great choice in the MW PH9

@holmz 

The Dude Abides.

But over time, I realized that to make all music sound better on my system I needed to improve it objectively. For twenty years I worked diligently to “learn” what real music sounds like at every opportunity…

That is a longer timeframe than many would abide.
Clearly the noise part (which I did not quote) is easy to work out with measurements alone.

I thought best to report back with what I bought. I pretty much settled on the Modwright PH9.0x, but prior to purchasing I called my Music Direct salesperson that has been very helpful with other purchases.

…

Sutherland was on my short list. (But I was looking more at their lil Loco.)

That advice you got sounds good, but maybe you can follow up once you back from the chiropractor in a few weeks?

OP,

👍 Thanks for the update. I look forward to hearing your impressions.

I thought best to report back with what I bought. I pretty much settled on the Modwright PH9.0x, but prior to purchasing I called my Music Direct salesperson that has been very helpful with other purchases. I asked him if he thought that money best be directed to subwoofers, or phono preamp. The preamp in my integrated is pretty good as is the bass in the Sabrina X. He convinced me that if I just changed one thing, the subwoofer was the way to go. I was considering a pair of REL G1 Mkii in a 14’x23’x10’ room. He suggested that I back off the price of the subwoofers and get a pair of REL S/812 and that would allow me to also get the Sutherland 20/20 ver2 with lps. I’ve read a lot of positive reviews of this unit without the linear power supply and he priced everything right, including three power cords and interconnects.

Everything shipped this morning. I’ll use my two months to make sure that I’m happy with the Sutherland and I’ll find a good chiropractor to help me after I carry the subwoofers upstairs.

I want to thank everyone that posted on this thread.

@holmz

Good question.

Sound quality is both objective and subjective evaluation.

For me, it began very subjective… chasing heavy bass, quieter noise levels and greater detail: making rock music more impactful and dynamic.

But over time, I realized that to make all music sound better on my system I needed to improve it objectively. For twenty years I worked diligently to “learn” what real music sounds like at every opportunity… I listened to individual instruments, and went to hundreds of acoustic concerts. I steeped myself in live music to learn its nuances. This is not as easy as it sounds. First you have to realize that amplified concerts are not helpful… they are too influenced by the amplification and venue. You have to listen to it a lot and learn terms to characterize it, to adjust for the venues. But like anything else many hundreds or thousands of hours allows you to develop an in depth understanding… and this gives you an internal empirical ruler.

This approach slowly began to effect my appreciation of reproduced music at first. Then it radically began influencing my choices as I learned what real music sounded like. All, genera of music sounded better and better as reproduced from my system.

So, while even for me sound quality is still a combination of both, it is much more objectively driven.

Are you using the phono stage in the 12000?

It's MM/MC, adjustable and well reviewed.

Yes and it is easily adjustable.  I'm assuming that it is pretty tough putting a phono stage together with a 300 watt per channel power amplifier.

Are you using the phono stage in the 12000?

It's MM/MC, adjustable and well reviewed.

DeKay

Check out Zesto.   Their specialty is phono stages.   I have their preamp and it is such a great sounding component.  Customer service is about as good as it gets 

I am surprised at different peoples criteria. Mine has been:

 

1: Sound Quality

And how do you quantify that?
or is it subjective?

If it is subjective then it gets difficult to hear them all, or buy them all.
How do you propose that is accomplished?

At least for me, it is about sound quality. That is it

Agreed, but with limited funds, how is this done?

The only way that I can see is to buy and sell, but I can't afford this approach.  So, looking at features, reviews and recommendations seems to be what is left.  Also, the MC stage of my integrated is good, so looking for a product worth the upgrade.

I am surprised at different peoples criteria. Mine has been:

1: Sound Quality

2: Cost

So, for many many years I had wished my current Phono Stage had a second input. I owned ARC for decades from PH2, PH2SE, PH3… PH8… Ref 3. Finally Audio Research added a second input… the REF. I think I hooked up my old AR turntable for a couple days and unplugged it. Why did I want to plug in a second grossly inferior table? 
 

At least for me, it is about sound quality. That is it.

I had the Hana ML and now the Umami Red. I upgraded from an SPL Phonos to the Modwright PH9.0X and it is stunningly good as is but add some NOS tubes for a real treat.

Gain 70-74db, is that too much? You can check Whest Audio Two.2 and Three Signature, Parasound JC3+, Gold Note PH-10, all with balanced outputs.

If you like a neutral phono stage the new EAR Phonobox is very quiet and neutral. If you prefer a warmer sound at a later stage you can get some Mullard tubes. 

Under $5000.

@vonhelmholtz what's your price point?

Single or multiple inputs

Accuracy of loading..ease secondary

Gain max 70-74

Voltage

Tube or SS...not sure. I intentionally purchased an integrated with tube preamp and SS power amplifier. I would prefer a neutral phono stage and maintain detail, especially midrange.

Also, prefer well isolated power supply and balanced outputs.

Listening to preamps pretty tricky since so many variables.

AR PH8 sounds appealing ..except no balanced outputs .. will require some patience to find one.

How do I shop for a phono preamp? I’m ok new, or used. Any suggestions as to what specific amps to look at?

I can only help with the “how I did it”.

Features:
- Single or multiple inputs
- Ease of loading
- Maximum gain

Topology:
- Voltage
- Transimpedance

Other:
- Colour (Black, Silver)
- Brands you choose to get or avoid
- Tube or SS

Once you run all the models through a “sluice box” or requirements, then you take what is left as remaining… and try and get a listen to them.

Or you get what sounds good, and then get the cartridge that will work with it.

Since you already have a good cartridge, you have an easier time than with that also an unbounded trade space.

The Gold Note PH-10 is one of the more versatile units at a reasonable price and it sounds amazing

Here's a few, Ear 834p, tavish design Adagio, Musical fidelity mx vynl, pro-ject tube box ds2...

My first choice for phono stages is Audio Research… I think a used ARC PH8 is a real sweet spot. You will get the most out of your turntable and your next. I have owned many (slowly upgrading each 5 or ten years) over the last 35 years. Compared to many others… they are world class and very worth it. 

Also Conrad Johnson or VAC or Cary. Each brings a great strength of musicality as well as details and great finesse.

Presto is a newer company

Basically you have normal phono and amp and transimpedance phono amps.

If you are sticking with LOMC then a transimpedance phono amp like a Sutherland “lil Loco might” be an option.

Then you have amps that allow loading to happen easier, and ones with multiple phono inputs.

Moon 310(?) is an example of the ones with easy loading changes.

… and there are a 100 more choices.