How big of a difference do amps make?

I was an amplifier nihilist until I went from SS to tubes after I bought my Zu Definitions. Then I went from an EAR 859 to a Yamamoto A-08 to a Deja Vu Audio 2a3 to an Ancient Audio 300b SET amp. Finally, I went from Shuguang Black Treasures to Sophia Royal Princes to Takatsuki 300b. Each change made a difference - some more than others, of course.

That's exactly the correct way to go. You got it!

*I am sure others may have traveled a similar path. So i am looking to hear their experience going from ss to tubes.*

I, & I'm probably others, could go on for hours about going from ss to tubes, & back again. The real issue is: What kind of SPEAKERS do you have? Do they need lots of SS power? Or are they designed to work well with lower powered tube amps? (Like Merlin's).

Merlin's like tube amps--any Merlin owner will tell you that. So still debating SS vs. tubes--what's the point? (Unless you sell the Merlin's & get some power hungry speakers that need big SS amps).

BTW, as far as amps--there are people that design their whole systems around their tube amps--even esoteric expensive amps like Cary 805's say.....(I always wanted to own those).....

McPherson, yes, without question. I went from a Carver M 1.5t amp Carver C-1 preamp to a McIntosh 7270 SS amp to the Carver C-1 pre then tried both amps hooked up to my current Cary SLP98P tube pre. The pre made a difference with the SS amps and so did the amps, then I hooked up a Cary V12R tube amp to the Cary tube pre, and heard a big difference, and an even bigger difference when I hooked up my current Cary CAD120's tube amp. Thursday, I'll be getting some (8) matched Gold Lion KT-88 tubes to find out if they will make a difference instead of the stock Electro-Harmonic's.

point could be taken that even amp of less quality with sufficient power may sound better than great one with lack of power.

Case in point, in 2002 I purchased both a Krell KCT preamp and 300cx amp from San Francisco Stereo to power my Thiel CS6s. After half a day of listening I decided that perhaps the more powerful 400cx might be a better match, so I swapped out the 300cx for the 400cx and immediately, I heard more detail, deeper and more highly controlled bass, and deeper soundstage (yes, the 700cx was way out of my budget then). My point here is that even within model lines, and given all else equivalent from a design and execution standpoint, the power supply itself and the current served up to the speakers can make a huge, audible difference.

polk 432
So in your experience the tube amp made a bigger difference than tube pre?

I've gone back and forth from tubes to solid state many times in the past 40 years and now have both types of systems. Is one better than the other in most ways? Nope.

Some amps make a big difference to your bank account, but do
very little to improve the sound. It is really important to pick the right amp for your speakers, so in that view, it can make a hugh difference. Dont confuse this with spending more money to get a "better" amp, because it could be a waste of money if the amps are not right for your speakers.
Hopefully you have a good dealer that has sorted through allot of combinations to find systems that work well.( a tall order, i know :)

McPherson, Sounds like a good plan, getting a tubed amp for your Merlins. I've not heard the Thor so I can't comment further about that but it has a good reputation. I also agree with getting the 8004, it has gotten high marks as well. In fact I was thinking of getting one for backup. I have a lot of hybrid cd's and would like to hear what SACD has to offer.

FWIW I've had three 'watershed' moments in audio. My change from a SS pre to a tubed pre, my change from ss amps to tubed amps, and finding my present speakers.

Good luck. I too think you are in for a treat. :-)

Newbee
I decided to get rid of some of my other gear (sony 5400 and Focal 918's) to save for speakers. I just got the Merlins and I have a good lead on a pair of Thor 30's that I dont want to lose. So i planned on trying to find a stepping stone source in the 600 dollar range to save for the amps.
I am sure others may have traveled a similar path. So i am looking to hear their experience going from ss to tubes.
The Thor preamp made a HUGE impact on me so if the amps follow suite....i think im in for a treat.

Newbee, sure, but first things first. It's just the way it is. I wonder how many amp designers would disagree.

OK:

http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php

The Merlin is designed on and for tube amps and is friendly to all tube amps as long as they make enough power.

Csontos, that may be so but I think it is too bad if it is so. In a given system if I start looking for sonic changes with the speakers I always look at sources and ancillaries first. But having anticipated what you suggest I only use tube amps where I can, for a few bucks, make minor changes by just using different tubes. A cheaper way to skin the cat I think. :-)

I can't recall how often I've said this. Once you get used to the attributes of all your other gear, guess what you then start listening to, again? Your amp. Which will always be the most identifiable piece of gear in your system. You will hear through every other piece very quickly.

Steveaudio hits the nail on the head. What are you doing with a 'cheap' cdp and thinking about a better (or different) amp. I have little doubt that the Thor will sound better, but why bother if you really can make a much bigger change with a new CDP.

But that said, if getting the Thor (or any other amp which you feel is better for your Merlins) is just your first step in getting ready to seriously explore quality (not necessarily expensive though) CDP's have at it.

I had to look up the HK Citation 16--apparently it's still a fairly well respected amp (?).

Also your question is very theoretical--you'd do better asking "what amp is best for Merlin TSM's"--& there are tons of threads already on that. But yes, most people use tubes with Merlin's.

But with a "cheap cdp", your system will only sound as good as the "cheap cdp".....with expensive speakers like Merlins, it's like putting Pep Boys tires on a new BMW......

Depends on the speakers. Some just can't make use of extra power. Matching amps to speakers is more important.

Cue Ralph's link to the "power paradigm"...

Contrary to Schubert, I drive my Aerial 10T with Sunfire SRA(bought NOS $450). Feels like I need a-bit more power of let's say Sunfire 300(used $700) and I'm sure that it will sound waywayway better than $200Kef with Halcro or Mark Levinson monos. At the same time I don't think that mine do well with 30wpc OTL tube amps or vintage Fisher receiver due to lack of power.

Without sufficient power to the specified load of the speaker neither price or sonic performance copmarison relevant.

I agree with Schubert. Tube amp with SS pre is better than SS amp with tube pre. I tried it. All tubes is the best. I have Lipinski L707 speakers and they sound great with my Linn Classik, but not nearly the same as my Cary tube set up.

I think they are every bit as important as speakers, the best speakers in the world just let you hear what your amp sounds like.
I'd rather have a $200 used pr of KEF standmounters with a 10K amp than other way around.

Crucial.

the source makes the most difference 'cuz if the source does not create the sound, the downstream components are sure not going to amplify them! so, i would 1st spend money on your source, get it to where you feel comfortable money-wise & sound-wise & then spend the money on pre & power. buying superb amps before having a source that can take advantage of it would be putting the cart before the horse. IMHO. FWIW.

The tube amp makes a huge difference, the preamp second.

Rok2id
Very nice! You are correct. Guess i should have been a little clearer on the title.
Any valuble advice on how much changing amps can impact system?

Almost as big a difference as Pangea powercords

Amps make a huge difference!! Compare systems with amps to those without, the difference is night and day!!
Cheers