I’ll try and close this thread up with a few comments.
I have never heard a speaker change in the space of 130 or so hours as the D9.
The hot midrange / treble has gone, bass deep, tuneful but with real impact as required.
What was disjointed bass/midrange/treble is now a full , coherent soundstage.
One of the other posts here had similar findings with the D7.
Sure, the treble may not be as crisp as the D48R , I am sure no done tweeter ever will be. Ribbon tweeters are special in this regard.
But the D9 did everything as good and in most of the things that matter to me - better than the ProAc in my room with my gear.
Why I chose these 2 as a final speaker bake off is.
1. Budget, they are the only ones in my budget range that I could get to demo. in my house.
2. I am in an area with limited speaker brand choice. For example I would love to hear Kudos, Joseph, Magico and a few other brands, just not possible though.
3. Tried the ATC SCM 40, good, very good but not excellent in my room. And need far more watts than the 90 Naim watts I could give them. Active was an option, but not worth the mess around as naim
and the ATC are not very compatible with cables etc. Just too hard.
Anyway, no bad choice , I just prefer the D9. |
The ATC SCM 40 is not in the same league with the D9 and the D48 this 2 options are much better and you are correct the ATC are power hungry speakers, the other two are more efficient , anyway they are both excellent choices and I am sure you'll enjoy your new D9 speakers for many years. |
Between the Spendor D7 / D9 and Proac D30RS / D48R, which one does piano timbre better? I'm allergic to hearing a piano reproduction that (given a good quality recording) does not easily, clearly and immediately tells me, even if I'm not paying much attention, that this is a real, mechanical piano, not a "digital" piano. There is a very... percussive, let's say, quality especially to the upper range notes of a piano that makes the listener very much aware that there are some very tight strings that are being hit, and some systems don't reproduce this quality too well. Take, for example, George Winston's album "December", the 12th track called "Peace". How do the Spendors and the Proacs fare in this regard?
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I can state that the Spendor D7 (just below the D9) have the best piano sound I have ever heard in a speaker- better than my previous Harbeths which made piano sound excellent. The Spendors make piano sound alive and real. |
@donquichotte,You will get biased opinion on this question because between the ProAc and Spendor owners we have purchased the loudspeakers that "we" thought, sounded the most natural to us. I have heard the ProAc D30, Spendor D7 and own the ProAc D48R. For piano, I would highly recommend the D48R. But would also urge you to listen to the Spendor D9 to see what you prefer. Both my kids play the piano and based on that experience I can say that the larger speakers get the sound "closer" to the original. But one thing to remember is - for a piano recording to sound "like a real piano" on a large loudspeaker, you need to provide them with enough room to breath. The smaller D30 and D7 also do piano very well, but the "scale" is different compared to the larger loudspeakers.
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@avanti1960
It’s a matter of synergy between speakers & system and personal taste too,the best piano sound I heard is with my Proac D30 RS ribbon twitters and with Harbeth 40.2 which I heard at high end show. |
Thank you very much guys for answering so quickly! I can say that the larger speakers get the sound "closer" to the original. But one thing to remember is - for a piano recording to sound "like a real piano" on a large loudspeaker, you need to provide them with enough room to breath. The smaller D30 and D7 also do piano very well, but the "scale" is different compared to the larger loudspeakers. Understood. Unfortunately, the space I have is not very large - about 23 square meters with a height of about 2.3 meters. I can get about 0.5-0.6 meters between the back of the speakers and the (long) wall behind them with the speakers spaced about 2 meters apart (inner edge to inner edge) and about 3 meters between me and the front baffle of each speaker. I know most would point out that the smaller speakers are more appropriate for this room, but... I’m not listening loud, on the contrary sometimes, and I would like to have good bass down to 30 Hz with the better mids the larger speakers are supposed to offer. To further confuse things, I’ve read somebody prefered the mids of the D30RS to those of the D48R, stating that the midbass driver is better in the D30RS. Difficult choices, given that I’ll definitely not be able to audition in my room before purchasing... Other speakers I’m considering are from the Spendor’s Classic line, especially because I heard the SP2/3R2 and loved them. Musical diet based on jazz, classical (especially piano) and old rock. Budget is not very clear, but the D9 and the Classic 100 are stretching it a lot, possibly even too far. Classic 1/2, maybe?
I can state that the Spendor D7 (just below the D9) have the best piano sound I have ever heard in a speaker
Have you heard anything from the current or the older Spendor Classic line? |
Understood. Unfortunately, the space I have is not very large - about 23
square meters with a height of about 2.3 meters. I can get about
0.5-0.6 meters between the back of the speakers and the (long) wall
behind them with the speakers spaced about 2 meters apart (inner edge to
inner edge) and about 3 meters between me and the front baffle of each
speaker.
I think the mistake you are making is you are considering the ProAc D30 and Spendor D7 as small. And it is a big mistake. When I auditioned these 2 loudspeakers I was amazed by how much "larger" they sound compared to their size. Both these speakers produced low range frequencies with amazing speed and definition.The bass did not sound like "column of air" being thrown out to "sound like bass", but real low bass. With the way you mention about the positioning of loudspeaker in your room, these can go down to 30Hz without much struggle. With your configuration the D48R and D9 will overload your room and you will regret the purchase even though you may be able to afford them.
To further confuse things, I’ve read somebody prefered the mids of the
D30RS to those of the D48R, stating that the midbass driver is better in
the D30RS. Like I said, the D48R needs breathing room. If they don't get it, yes, the midrange can become muddy. In this case one should not blame the speakers, but rather blame their choice of speaker knowing their room limitation. Based on your "music diet", I suggest that you listen to some Harbeths and Sterling? (not sure, looked like a box like Harbeth, but many screws on the front when you remove the baffle; heard at AXPONA 2017).Looks like you are based somewhere in Europe, where ProAc, Spendor, Harbeth are much cheaper than the US. |
I did listen to Harbeth 30.2, but it was with an amplifier I believe was not up to the task, a Sugden A21SE that seemed underpowered to me and an accompanying friend. I want something more dynamic and with much better low frequency extension. I liked the Spendor SP2/3R2 much more (but with a much stronger and expensive Densen amplifier, to be fair).
Would the big bass of the bigger speakers also muddy the midrange at moderate to low volume levels?
ThaNks again for your assistance!
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Would the big bass of the bigger speakers also muddy the midrange at moderate to low volume levels?
In a small room there is a potential that bass would muddy the midrange at moderate volume.The thing is, the ProAc D48R is very easy to drive. I posted my experience from this weekend where I brought the $89/pair Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers into my main listening room to see how they fair with good ancillaries. While they punched too much above their price range, on similar CDs, I had to raise the volume to 11'o clock position for them, compared to somewhere between 9-10 o'clock position for the ProAcs. I believe, the D9s are also similarly sensitive.But if your room has an "open" layout, the bigger speakers might be alright. This means, you don't have a closed room, but your audio room opens to a kitchen or living room or some other room. We have one gentleman on this site who owns a D40R and has been very happy with them as he has an open layout. |
I’m afraid it’s a closed room. Not sure what is the significance in this context of the fact that the D48R is easy to drive.
Isn’t it a matter of too much bass extension, exciting some room modes (say, below 30 Hz) that other less extended speakers wouldn’t touch? Because if this is all the problem and, let’s say, D30RS extends to 30 Hz and D48R extends to 20 Hz, then the problem would only be apparent with recordings with significant content between 20 and 30 Hz - and there’s not a lot of it in the music I’m listening except for the symphonic (occasionally) and organ music. I have a feeling that I’m on thin ice here...
Also, can this "too big a speaker for the room" problem be addressed with some room treatment? All this guesswork is worrying me as this is not the kind of expense I’m likely to be able to repeat in the foreseeable future. Some people recommend mini monitors like Dynaudio Special 40 for a space like mine, others are cramming Harbeth 40.2 and the like and declare themselves very satisfied...
Finally, to return to my original question, between D30RS and D7 what would you choose for piano reproduction and why? I care a lot about timbre and especially that tactile, percussive quality of the upper range of the piano I tried to described above. |
I currently own the D30RS and all I can say that they exceed my expectations by far first they sounded a little bit blur,weak dynamics and laid back after a very long break-in they are now wonderful their ribbon twitters give very natural life like highs,the mid is superb detailed and the bass is powerful , punchy and accurate on of the best I ever heard .the soundstage is huge and the sound is very natural . I think the D30RS will work very well in your size space without overhang bass that the D48 might do. Didn't hear the D7 however one of my friends who considered to buy them heard them at high end show and was very disappointed. |
The Harbeth 40.2 are wonderful speakers but need very large space to fulfill their huge potential IMO your space will not work for them. |
See this lengthy review and the size of the room. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/harbeth-monitor-40-2.25222/ Also, I heard the 40.2's in a regular-sized hotel room at Capital AudioFest, and they sounded very good. I went back 3 times. Sure, they will perform even better with a larger space, but the 40.2's won't overload as much as the 40.1's. The owner at Deja Vu was actually more concerned about distance to side wall, he thought 2 1/2 feet a minimum. Compared to the 40.2, I heard the Classic 100 in a totally different system, different room (different country!). Some general resemblance, perhaps a little less forgiving, perhaps a little more dynamic/exciting...but it could just as well have been the other components. Strong preference for 40.2/30.2 over SHL5+, so the question is, does the Spendor 1/2 follow the corresponding Harbeth model. Judging by this thread, very few have auditioned. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-new-spendor-classic-1-2
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If to go for mid range magic, why not the Spendor Classic series? |
