Which cartridges give the greatest amount of detail? Imaging, soundstage file detail. These are qualities to consider. I know Lyra cartridges are high on that list. What others equal or better Lyras. Is there anything below, say $1500, that is in that same category? Detail with reasonably flat frequency response.
Generally, and I emphasize that word, cartridges that use high profile stylus shapes, such a micro-line, micro-ridge, shibata and others, will have the physical interface to be able to extract the highest of frequencies from the groove. That said, composition of cantilever and coil/magnet structures all matter as to how that stylus interface is displaced to generate the electrical signal.
I have two Lyra Delos carts and enjoy them for the detail and depth of stage. I used to own a Helikon and it was also up there for detail. I also enjoy three high-profile stylus, less-expensive MM carts, AT 440 mla and mlb, and Ortofon Black, that are all great at detail retrieval. The ATs have since been discontinued and replaced by other models, but I can state, from personal experience, that the Black is currently available ~$750 and comes quite close to the detail retrieval of the Delos. The soundstage isn’t quite as deep and wide as the Lyra, however. I used to own a Koetsu Urushi Vermillion, but that cartridge didn’t have the detail retrieval and musicality of the Lyras. Sorry, Koetsu enthusiasts, I tried, I really did.
Also, though no longer currently available except as vintage (but worth consideration, especially from Witsolutions on eBay https://www.ebay.com/str/witsolutionsaudiocartridgesstyli) that I also enjoy are Stanton 880s, and Pickering XSV4000 MM cartridges that use hyper-elliptical profiles. They were designed to track the high frequency signal for decoding SQ discs of the 70s, but they sound wonderfully close to the MC Delos on standard stereo recordings. Frequency profiles of these are quite flat when the correct total capacitance is dialed in.
Others can chime in with cartridge experiences and preferences of their own. High profile styli are a VERY important part of the answer to your question and part of the discussion.
A SoundSmith-modified Denon DL 103 R with saphire cantilever and fineline diamond tip. Great detail, great bass and more than passable soundstage. It will set you back around $ 650.
I'm currently using what started out os a Lyra Clavis DC but was recently refitted with a Boron cantilever and line contact stylus. Still in breakin. Kept the detail (maybe improved it) but definitely improved the sonics.
I'm just looking for options since I have no idea how long the {formerly] Lyra will last. ART7 and ART9 definitely on my short list. I've read some interesting comments about the Suondsmith Zephyr MIMC Star (probably my budget limit). Would like to consider a Lyra Delos, but need to get a deal I can't refuse.
I’ve had moderately priced cartridges and some expensive ones. One thing I’ve come to realize is how we relate our systems to live music. When listening to live music, no matter the genre, we never pay attention to "detail." I have never caught myself saying ... "man, those guys are really detailed." Nope, I just get carried away by the relaxed, lush and organic nature of the music.
The cartridge I’ve been using for the past 2+ years is the Audio Technica ART-9. It never calls attention to itself. It has no rising top end that a lot of MC’s do to exaggerate what we perceive to be "detail." The ART-9 just gets in the grooves and plays music. Its really good on mono records as well ... better than most in fact.
bpoletti - you ask a tough question because there are so many cartridge brands on the market that span price ranges from the modest to the ridiculous, you may get overwhelmed with responses.
My response is kinda consistent with what other folks posted above. My primary cartridge is a Lyra Kleos, which I picked up on an exchange for my old Kleos which had a broken cantilever. The exchange cost me about $2K.
Paying $2K for a cartridge gave me some pause. Thee are Lyra models that cost upwards of $8K and even much more. When one considers that a stylus has a limited life, even under the best of conditions, paying $2K for my Kleos gave me pause to think about the value proposition of the Kleos or any cartridge for that matter.
I also own a 1st generation Soundsmith Zephyr as my backup cartridge. This may sound crazy, but it is not a bad sounding cartridge, especially considering its cost. I've actually been thinking about using my old Zephyr to do an exchange for the Zephyr MIMC Star.
But IMO, here is where the value proposition comes in. If you check the Soundsmith website, you should take note that Peter Ledermann will do rebuilds and retips of his cartridges for very reasonable prices.
So, I would like to put a question out there to other members who own the Zephyr MIMC Star. What are your comments about that cartridge.
I think if you get good feedback on the MIMC Star or any other Soundsmith model, I think it should go on the short list for consideration. I bet the MIMC Star and the other mid-priced Soundsmiths sound great. And with the very reasonable rebuild/retip option, Soundsmith makes for a very good value proposition for a cartridge, IMHO.
Here is a short list of oustanding MM cartridges: Audio-Technica AT-ML180 OCC Victor X-1II Technics EPC-100c MK4 Technics EPC-205c mk4 Stanton CS-100 WOS Pioneer PC-1000 mkII Grace LEVEL II MR/BR Grace F-14 Ruby Glanz MFG-61
Here is the short list of MC cartridges that i like a lot: Victor MC-1 Fidelity-Research FR-7fz and FR-7f Klipsch MCZ-10 Ruby Dynavector KARAT 23RS MR Dynavector KARAT 17DS MR Ortofon MC-2000
All cartridges are from the golden age of analog, reasonably priced today on the used market.
I’m very impressed with my Audio Technica VM540ML cartridges. I’ve got one on a Technics SL-1700mk2 and another on a Technics SL-Q2. Admittedly, they are the most expensive cartridges I own, and I can’t stomach the idea of spending over $500, let alone $1000 or more on a cartridge.
@amg56 - Absolutely. It stands to reason that EVERY component in the chain from the table / arm / cartridge through the speakers has to be capable processing that detail and moving it to the listener's ears.
you mentioned otherwise I would belong to the ’’category’’
of ’’ignorant’’. Will you be so kind to ’’explain’’ this choice ?
You know, i managed to find working Victor MC-1 and i must say this is a very special cartridge, now i want to try more Direct Coupled models made by Victor (if i will find working samples). Your broken sample is a donor for another one which i wish to ship to SoundSmith. When the printed coil is right above the cantilever and very close to the stylus tip the sound is "so real". I use this cart on my Sony PUA-7 tonearm with brand new Signal Cable Silver Sesolution (that i bought by advice of Don) with Xhadow RCA we have soldered few days ago, JLTi phono stage.
We both know how good is the FR-7f and especially the FR-7fz.
My MM list is a top list after a years of studying as you noticed. The AT-ML180 OCC is unbeatable (long time favorite). The Grace LEVEL II and F-14 are superb with Ruby, BR/MR (Boron/MicroRidge) or Beryllium (I also have Ceramic cantilever, but never tried it yet). The Pioneer PC-1000 mkII and Stanton CS-100 WOS are close to each other, the difference is that Pioneer has Beryllium cantilever and Elliptical tip, but Stanton WOS has special sapphire coated cantilever (looks like Ruby) and Stereohedron II tip (and optional brush infront of the cantilever). Both carts are very musical and it’s a pure joy to listen to the music with them. Pioneer PC-1000 mkII is top of the line model made for Pioneer Exclussive series of turntables, this cartridge is very rare! Someone notice that a tonearm that comes with Pioneer Exclussive was made by Micro Seiki and very close to the Micro Seiki MAX series (even the way it looks). Pioneer PC-1000 mkII was designed for this top of the line Pioneer tonearm.
The AT-ML180 ans Stanton WOS are the champs in detail retrival, because of the very nice styli (MicroLine and Stereohedron) very low tip mass etc. Grace is also amazing in this aspect (Boron Cantilever and MicroRidge tip) but even higher in compliance. Victor X-1II with Shibata/Beryllium is also gian killer MM cartridge. You owned the Galnz 61 if i remember correct. And you know Technics which is problematic when it comes to the damper, so in my opinion the AT-ML180 OCC is much better than Technics 205 mk4.
I'll be auditioning my Stanton CS-100 WOS tonight for a select group of friends. I love the little "Sweeper" on the front! At the moment I'm listening to a new album, a QRP reissue of Ella and Louis with my Audio-Technica At-ML 170 and it sounds divine. It's my favorite cart so far. Vintage carts are wonderful!
Talking about the "Highest detail cartridges" everyone should look at the specs first (frequency response), for example Stanton SC-100 WOS can do as wide as 10Hz - 50kHz, Audio-Technica AT-ML180 can do 5Hz - 42kHz, Technics claimed 5Hz - 100kHz for 205c mk4 with
Effective Moving Mass of the tip = 0,109 mg. Try to find ANY moving coil or moving magnet / moving iron than can do the same.
@bpoletti - excellent member review of the MIMC Star. Thanks.
I have a medium to high mass arm (VPI 10.5 JMW). The MIMC Star would match very well with my VPI arm. If I can accumulate some extra cash, I may trade in my 1st generation Zephyr for the MIMC Star. Who knows, the MIMIC may become my primary and the Kleos my back up.
Or, I may spring for a second VPI arm and use both cartridges. :)
https://www.denon.jp/jp/museum/products/dl1000a.html Even their lower-priced DL-305 got down to 0.168mg. These cartridges (as well as Technics 205, 305, 100) were from an era when various audio manufacturers competed with each other to see who could produce the more impressive-appearing specifications, whether the products were speakers, amplifiers, turntables, cartridges, tuners etc.
But at least in my experience, such specs don't have much relation to how a component actually sounds.
Less moving mass for me is a good argument. No cartridge from me plays fast transients so clean as the Soundsmith MIMC. How it sounds? Clean and neutral. No more to say :-) PS: Hi Nikola :-)
Mr.Carr is right, but the topic is about "Highest detail cartridges" and i think there is a strong relation between frequency range, stylus profile, cantilever materials (and the whole design). But no one, i believe, can call a rolled-off cartridge a "Highest detail cartridges", right?
It is not necessary that a person will like "Highest detail cartridges" more that some amazing cartridges like big and heavy low compliance the FR-7fz for example.
I have all of them and i can compare them, the MM cartridges i have mentioned are the "Highest detail cartridges" for sure ! I do not speak about cartridges that i have never tried @bpoletti The list of vintage MM cartridges is the list of the "Highest detail cartridges" for your topic.
@jcarr Denon DL-1000 has an effective tip mass 0.077 mg, but Technics top of the line MM cartridge (EPC 100c mk4) has an effective tip mass of about 0.056 mg (the world lowest tip mass?) and if it’s not the one of the "Highest detail cartridges" you can kill me.
I like the Victor MC-1 for another reason, it's just getting me closer to the music. I was very impressed by this Direct Couple desing, look at the pictures of its structure http://audio-heritage.jp/VICTOR/etc/mc-1.html The coil is just above the cantilever and very close to the stylus tip. This is unique design. That was the inspiration for designers of brand new Audio-Technica ART-1000 https://youtu.be/PaoA4ZuGlOw
I have owned the Technics EPC-1000C mk4 for quite a few years. Its very very good and ultra detailed with a ruler flat frequency response. Easily the most detailed and best sounding MM I have ever heard.
the Lyra Atlas is top dog in detail retrieval imo coupled with dynamics, a clarity and purity that is unmatched imo. expensive thou :-)
The Denon DL-S1 is another very detailed cart as long as you have the phono stage gain to drive it.
Chakster, I am not sure why you are so obsessed with stylus tip mass, which should really be termed "moving mass", to indicate the total mass whose inertia needs to be overcome in order to start a transient, but in order of class, moving iron cartridges are said to have the lowest moving mass, to be followed by moving coil, and then by moving magnet types. I'm sure there's quite a bit of variation and perhaps even overlap within those categories, but I strongly doubt that any MM cartridge could be champion of that specification. Assuming I would care. Anyway, to the OP, it seems to me that certain brands are more known for detail retrieval than others, whether or not that was a design goal of the manufacturer. Two brands that fall into that category, in my opinion, are Lyra and Audio Technica. I'm thinking of whether to add Decca to that list. The trick is to get the details while remaining "musical".
@chakster What is "closer to the music" except distortion and coloration that you find particularly pleasing? Is "closer to the music" a more accurate reproduction of what is in the groove or a "romantic" rewrite?
@lewm My Moving Iron reference cartridge (Joseph Grado Signature XTZ) can't beat the AT-ML180 OCC or Grace LEVEL II LC-OFC with BR/MR stylus.
Technics 205c mk4 is an excellent cartridge (never tried 100c mk4, but owned 100c mk3), in terms of detail retrival those cartridges are oustanding! Why? I just tried to add some facts such as extremely wide and flat frequency response and the lowest moving mass.
At the same time the Technics cartridges are the most problematic because of the weak damper.
"Highest detail cartridges" are not necessary the most musical or the most involving cartridges. ZYX Airy III or ZYX Premium 4D SB are great in detail retrival, but not the most involving carts (but surely very expensive).
Moving Magnet cartridges from my list are highly competitive with any MC cartridges i have owned, but the cost of those vintage MM is 3-5 time lower than MC equivalents. I would recomment you to try any of them, especially the AT-ML180 OCC.
At the same time i like my Fidelity-Research FR-7 series (f and fz), this is very musical cartridge with body and soul.
@viridian I listen to 99%+ classical music. Instrument timbre can expose the accuracy of the recording. And I've been a part of blind listening sessions that used two components that were identical except for a 3 millibel difference in frequency response. The same component could be consistently identified during the tests.
I prefer components with a vanishingly low amount of distortion to any distortion including even order distortion. It is why I use one particular electronics manufacturer.
"Is "closer to the music" a more accurate reproduction of what is in the groove or a "romantic" rewrite?"
It is more involving reproduction of music on vinyl media. May be caused by synergy of the arm + cartridge and all components. The moment when you’re there with a smile on your face, when everything is damn good.
Victor Direct Couple MC-1 is very dynamic cartridge in my system. I was aware of the sweetness of Shibata profile on Beryllium cantilever, becuase i have tried many Victor MM cartridges before. But i think Direct Couple principle is something special in this MC design. Never tried Decca or Ikeda cantilever-less models.
I am, unfortunately, very sensitive to timbre particularly in cellos, double reeds and violins. Yes, there are variations in some equipment used to record the instruments, but in my opinion less so than in cartridges and arms.
In my system, cartridge anomalies, arm resonances, tube warmth, and similar often appear in my system as "bloom" at various frequencies that distorts instrumental timbre. Some listeners like that distortion and call it "musical" or other descriptions that are used to rationalize distortion.
In my system, cartridge anomalies, arm resonances, tube warmth, and
similar often appear in my system as "bloom" at various frequencies that
distorts instrumental timbre. Some listeners like that distortion and
call it "musical" or other descriptions that are used to rationalize
distortion.
+1 I prefer tubes, but have the same concerns. I find that if the tone arm is able to track the cartridge correctly, then the actual choice of cartridge is far less important. IOW the tone arm/cartridge combination properly set up far overshadows the choice of cartridge. On this account, I've seen some pretty inexpensive cartridges keep up with some really expensive ones effortlessly, all on account of the fact that the tone arm really did its job right.
@atmasphere +1 though I have heard some significant differences in cartridges even with the most careful set-up I can provide. I'm currently using a Lyra Clavis DC with a new cantilever and stylus (from Soundsmith) that is outperforming its predecessor OC9/II. Everything downstream is the same. After hearing the rebuilt Lyra with all the additional detail, I became interested in other carts that might provide as good or better detail. Since that time, I have decided to just stick with the Clavis DC as long as it will work to its current level.
I agree that some less expensive cartridges can provide superb performances, and also that careful setup and arm matching is critical.
Of the carts that are being mentioned I own three of them: the Lyra Delos, The ART-9, and the Soundsmith MIMIC Star. Personally I like the Delos the best, it has slightly more weight and better punch than the others, it also sounds more like real music to me. The ART-9 comes in 2nd, and sounds 90% of the Delos, just not as dynamic and maybe a little less detail, I mean a little. Finally the MIMIC Star is a good sounding cart but next to the other two it sounds a bit tame, soft and no where near as dynamic as the others. The MIMIC Star is OK, but for the price I was slightly disappointed in how it sounds. YMMV
Dear @bpoletti :
Highest detail ?. The overall frequency range is to wide to ask " detail " in all the range.
In my experiences what really make a differences for the better always are cartridge with good detail at both frequency extremes, both frequency ranges are the frame of the whole music. and taking in count both frequency extremes my choice is the Colibri by a wide margin:
Overall very hard to beat. Obviously that will be " limited " for the other audio items the Colibri is surrounded, well as any other cartridge but the Colibri is maybe more demandant than others.
Chakster, Based on your own observations, it would seem that there is a dissociation between low "moving mass" and high levels of "detail retrieval", the latter being a very subjective judgement that requires a consensus among many listeners to be taken seriously, I think. I know you like your Grado XTZ, but given its age, it is probably not advisable to take its performance as a paradigm for all other MI or IM types. (I think those Grados are more properly thought of as IM [Induced Magnet], like my Acutex LPM320 and M320.) My own Grado TLZ ain't what it used to be. You also mentioned ZYX cartridges as being detailed; I would agree.
""" if the tone arm is able to track the cartridge correctly, then the actual choice of cartridge is far less important. ..... properly set up far overshadows the choice of cartridge. """
that’s a no-sense post due to unknowledge level on the overall subject.
Always the cartridge choice is important and everything the same NOTHING can " overshadows " the choice of cartridge and exist facts that confirm those:
in the same tonearm with the same audio system a Lyra Etna always will outperforms the Kleos as the Kleos beats the Delos one. If we make same comparison: the Colibri always beats the Black Beauty even in a non-top tonearm.
When everything is the same the cartridge choice can makes a difference for the better or worst and as I said nothing can overshadows it but a bad system .
If not, why cartridge manufacturers marketed so different cartridge models?, not only to cover different market price level but each single models ( no matter what. ) performs with different quality level. Lyra, Ortofon, VDH, Benz Micro Koetsu and almost every manufacturer works in the same way. They don't care to other parameter or audio item that its design quality levels at a price point.
Other than the LP the analog king is the cartridge, obviously that after the cartridge every single link in the audio system/room chain is important including our music/sound knowledge and skills levels.
I don’t know why you posted: " +1 " when in your post you attested the cartridge difference with the Clavis.
Dear @lewm : One critical subject that all have to take in count when reading any single post coming from every one is to look from which system/room whole items came that post because experiences based opinions coming from any one of us depends on what we listened in our system and depends too of each one music/sound priorities.
Your M320 outperforms any AT MM cartridges and other coming from different manufacturers.
@viridian Thank you. I think I have found a cartridge that is meet, or at least is very close, to my wants. Getting close to completing breakin on a Clavis Da Capo that Soundsmith "rebuilt" with a Boron Cantilever and a Soundsmith line contact stylus. The warts of typical of a Clavis DC are missing but the transparency, details, soundstage and imaging are there. Instruments are clean without induced bloom or edgeyness. No zingy strings, no blooming cello or harp.
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