Three easy payments, I discovered Tellurium thru Waltersalas a member here, started from black 2 Speaker cable they are very good, later I rewired my main system with black ultra plus ic , black ic , and black diamond speaker cables , the diamond are very expensive but it’s all the price,
Help Match Cables To Gear Please
Hello all.
I’m a long time member and lurker but have never dove down the rabbit hole of cables mainly because all the misinformation floating around.
Little back info-
I’m 40 years old and have never been in the camp of denier or believer in High-End/HiFi/Audiophile cables but always knew better than to flush money away on something I couldn’t return if wasn’t satisfied with purchasing. But now that I can listen to demos on the internet and clearly hear a difference on some of the videos I feel a heck of a lot more comfortable in purchasing higher end cables over the internet.
I live in a rural city in SW Kentucky so have never had the opportunity to demo various high end audio products while growing up. I did however purchase my first AVR and big box 15” speakers at age 11 so I have been into both audio and video relatively all my life.
I’ve always just gone by the reference, “you get what you pay for” with pretty much everything. This approach has at least kept me away from cheap zip cord and the such but also has kept me from trying any sort of audio cables that I feel would better match my gear since there weren’t any vendors in my area. Sticking to brands that are known in the industry like Mogami have been my “go to” for speaker cables and interconnects.
When I was trying to find demos I could actually hear a difference over the internet I stumbled across a cable demonstration by Danacables that clearly showed how one of their designs helped control the actual speaker by making it stop faster than regular off the shelf zip cord.
Between physically seeing a cable affect the speaker and being able to hear differences I felt like there really couldn’t be that many “snake oil” companies out there if real companies are in the market too. I’ve always felt like we have been introducing all kinds of new pollutants into our environment with new technologies yet I’ve never tried upgrading cables that could help eliminate these unwanted pollutants. Not only would these new unwanted variables be put in check but also some of the newer speaker cable technology in general could be applied at the same time. I’m no scientist but have a feeling cable can’t just be cable when I’ve been using the same product that was basically used by my grandparents for the most part. Maybe I have the oxygen free advantage but that is it most likely. The rest of the world surrounding us has changed greatly since my grandparents were purchasing speaker wire but yet Ive been using the same thing out of pure ignorance listening to those who claim cables are cables.
Now that I believe I have a “permanent” system in place in my dedicated theater room I want to try to match my gear to some cables that should in theory bring out the best in the total system.
Being that this is a theater room I have to consider which way to proceed as far as spending money on cables since I can’t afford to wire the entire room with ultra expensive cabling. There are just way too many channels, amplifiers, and speakers to purchase crazy expensive cabling for all of it.
My thinking is to run the best possible speaker cables to the LCRs. Use upgraded power cables for all the amplifiers, and use upgraded XLR cables to the LCRs while sticking to Mogami XLRs for the rest of the surrounds unless I notice a dramatic difference when swapping my LCR cables to the surrounds.
My system consists of the following-
Pre Pro- Trinnov Altitude32
LCR- Quested Audio LT20s (custom) totally active
Lc/Rc and DTS-X Pro Front Heights LCRs are all LT10s
Remaining Surrounds- Quested Audio Z8s
LCR Mid and Sub Amps- MC2
LCR AMT Amps- Hypex NCore 500 Monoblocks per AMT driver.
So with that gear my experience tells me that the AMT drivers across the board from my LCRs to the Z8 surrounds have a very revealing, crisp sound with a super wide soundstage. Sorry I’m not good at descriptions with audio products.
The midrange drivers are super clear but not quite ultra revealing, more cool than warm, and have huge transients.
The sub drivers are what I would call fast and crisp but lacking in punch or attack. I also have separate modules ran to the LCRs for further ULF extension making them a 4-way instead of a 3-way. These bass modules are using AE 18” drivers in a vented enclosure with #10 OFC wire but willing to upgrade this wire as well if it’s not outrageous being that the bass setup in home theater is generally completely different than general stereo applications but I’m all for better sonics regardless.
Then I have way too many subs and mid bass modules to detail. Most of the subs are 21” and 24” high xmax drivers all ran for maximum Ultra Low Frequency extension for movies. They are flat down to 3-5hz at the MLP. All these subs and bass modules are currently wired with the same #10 OFC wire as the LCR sub drivers.
I think I covered my situation and background well enough as I hate dragging those who read this along even more. So if there are any who think they have experienced greatness out of certain combinations with similar gear please do share!
Bests
Alex
I’m a long time member and lurker but have never dove down the rabbit hole of cables mainly because all the misinformation floating around.
Little back info-
I’m 40 years old and have never been in the camp of denier or believer in High-End/HiFi/Audiophile cables but always knew better than to flush money away on something I couldn’t return if wasn’t satisfied with purchasing. But now that I can listen to demos on the internet and clearly hear a difference on some of the videos I feel a heck of a lot more comfortable in purchasing higher end cables over the internet.
I live in a rural city in SW Kentucky so have never had the opportunity to demo various high end audio products while growing up. I did however purchase my first AVR and big box 15” speakers at age 11 so I have been into both audio and video relatively all my life.
I’ve always just gone by the reference, “you get what you pay for” with pretty much everything. This approach has at least kept me away from cheap zip cord and the such but also has kept me from trying any sort of audio cables that I feel would better match my gear since there weren’t any vendors in my area. Sticking to brands that are known in the industry like Mogami have been my “go to” for speaker cables and interconnects.
When I was trying to find demos I could actually hear a difference over the internet I stumbled across a cable demonstration by Danacables that clearly showed how one of their designs helped control the actual speaker by making it stop faster than regular off the shelf zip cord.
Between physically seeing a cable affect the speaker and being able to hear differences I felt like there really couldn’t be that many “snake oil” companies out there if real companies are in the market too. I’ve always felt like we have been introducing all kinds of new pollutants into our environment with new technologies yet I’ve never tried upgrading cables that could help eliminate these unwanted pollutants. Not only would these new unwanted variables be put in check but also some of the newer speaker cable technology in general could be applied at the same time. I’m no scientist but have a feeling cable can’t just be cable when I’ve been using the same product that was basically used by my grandparents for the most part. Maybe I have the oxygen free advantage but that is it most likely. The rest of the world surrounding us has changed greatly since my grandparents were purchasing speaker wire but yet Ive been using the same thing out of pure ignorance listening to those who claim cables are cables.
Now that I believe I have a “permanent” system in place in my dedicated theater room I want to try to match my gear to some cables that should in theory bring out the best in the total system.
Being that this is a theater room I have to consider which way to proceed as far as spending money on cables since I can’t afford to wire the entire room with ultra expensive cabling. There are just way too many channels, amplifiers, and speakers to purchase crazy expensive cabling for all of it.
My thinking is to run the best possible speaker cables to the LCRs. Use upgraded power cables for all the amplifiers, and use upgraded XLR cables to the LCRs while sticking to Mogami XLRs for the rest of the surrounds unless I notice a dramatic difference when swapping my LCR cables to the surrounds.
My system consists of the following-
Pre Pro- Trinnov Altitude32
LCR- Quested Audio LT20s (custom) totally active
Lc/Rc and DTS-X Pro Front Heights LCRs are all LT10s
Remaining Surrounds- Quested Audio Z8s
LCR Mid and Sub Amps- MC2
LCR AMT Amps- Hypex NCore 500 Monoblocks per AMT driver.
So with that gear my experience tells me that the AMT drivers across the board from my LCRs to the Z8 surrounds have a very revealing, crisp sound with a super wide soundstage. Sorry I’m not good at descriptions with audio products.
The midrange drivers are super clear but not quite ultra revealing, more cool than warm, and have huge transients.
The sub drivers are what I would call fast and crisp but lacking in punch or attack. I also have separate modules ran to the LCRs for further ULF extension making them a 4-way instead of a 3-way. These bass modules are using AE 18” drivers in a vented enclosure with #10 OFC wire but willing to upgrade this wire as well if it’s not outrageous being that the bass setup in home theater is generally completely different than general stereo applications but I’m all for better sonics regardless.
Then I have way too many subs and mid bass modules to detail. Most of the subs are 21” and 24” high xmax drivers all ran for maximum Ultra Low Frequency extension for movies. They are flat down to 3-5hz at the MLP. All these subs and bass modules are currently wired with the same #10 OFC wire as the LCR sub drivers.
I think I covered my situation and background well enough as I hate dragging those who read this along even more. So if there are any who think they have experienced greatness out of certain combinations with similar gear please do share!
Bests
Alex
45 responses Add your response
@rodman99999 @roberjerman Here is the power plant. https://www.equitech.com/products/wall/wall.html In the first theater I saw it being used Kieth Yates drilled 4 200’ holes that had to be lined with copper tubes and filled with some sort of dielectric. These systems are for real bad@ss. Check out Kieth Yates Designs build of Rob Hahn’s marvelous HT here http://keithyates.com/portfolio/hahn-theater/ TheBland user-handle on AVS also recently built a new HT using the Equi Tech unit but I’m not sure how involved he went into its installation compared to Rob and his 200’ lined holes. Bests Alex |
@rodman99999 thants funny you say that because that is exactly what I did to a major extent in two different rooms. I built a true home theater and a media room/bar room that is for 2 channel. Both are designed around the golden ratio. The theater room also has stepped side walls and ceiling while the media room has baffled ceiling. They were built from the ground up as huge addition onto our existing house. Yea I have a 400 amp service coming into the house with two branch dedicated circuits split off for the Audio/Video. One is 120v and the other is 240v but they are totally dedicated. Right now the two Audio/Video sub panels are fed and terminated by solid silver wire but I have no clue if this makes any difference or not. It is what my electrical engineer called for so it’s there but can be replaced easily enough by pulling copper. Clean power is expensive with all of today’s random interferences being given off by almost every electronic product. Bests Alex |
I fully understand your perspectives and agree. It certainly sounds as if you've got the juice, to accomplish your goals (double entendre intended). If I were thus situated, I'd build a house, designed with the Golden Ratio in mind, baffled ceilings and no parallel walls (fat chance of that). I've help others, that were. Certainly was fun, having an avocation, for a vocation! Enjoy your system, never stop learning/experimenting. |
@rodman99999 i haven’t checked any PCs out yet. One reason is because I am using 240v amplifiers here in the states for the screen speakers so it’s a pain in that regard. I will end up with one on the Trinnov and Media devices before I’m said and done for sure though. The room is still having the acoustic treatments and a few other odds and ends buttoned up so haven’t wanted to start critically listening until it’s 100% complete. Don’t get me wrong I listen and enjoy it now by all means but just not to the extremes of trying to notice minute differences that components can make. I’m sure get get what I’m saying. I need to learn how electronics in markets that use 240v handle PCs and the such because that has been a major concern of mine every since I decided to go down the path of high current amplification for all speakers behind the screen. It makes all the sense in the world as far as audio quality but going this direction in the states has its drawbacks as well. I have to use big bulky outlets and cable connections. One option is just to pony up the cash for a 200 amp high end Filtered electrical panel. That would be the best route but they are like $13,000-$15,000 installed. Right now I’m using right at 120 amps of 120v and 80 amps of 240v so a 200amp power plant would be perfect. A couple other people I talk with on a Home Theater forum have one and they are top quality for sure. Not only the build quality but the piece of mind that comes along with an install like that would be wonderful. Bests Alex |
@ alford_r35 - As a proponent of better interconnects, PCs and speaker cables: I have to admit doubt, as to whether upgrading from Canare speaker cables would make an audible difference, in your particular application. That’s regardless of how much you might invest in such. OTOH: Have you experimented with any PCs, on your Trinnov pre-pro (for instance)? For a minor investment, you could rent a decent one from The Cable Company’s lending library, just to listen for any possible, audible improvements. ie: https://www.thecableco.com/cables/power-cables/synergistic_research.html With what you have invested in your theater system and room, it would be a shame to not wring out every last bit of enjoyment. |
Sure am glad I missed all that trolling yesterday. Re: cables.Buy a well reviewed brand so you can check the opinions of freaks you know--or at least can check their past opinions for consistency. AQ, MIT, Shunyata, Synergistic, Nordost, etc. Assemble the loom(s) with care, staying to brand where needed.BUY USED CABLES! They’re cheaper and already broken-in. Anyone can call him/herself an audiophile. One who denies the effects of cables has a hearing impairment and should be pitied and encouraged to seek help--not abused. |
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alford_35: read this http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/CableSnakeOil.php and the links to Garen Galeis papers in the middle to understand what and why cables do what they do. Then forgeddaboudit. Multichannel audio is so phase f.....-up as to render cables next to meaningless. |
Noone past the age of about 35 will be able to tell the difference between speaker cables of 20 bucks versus 1000 bucks. Get some 14 or 12 gauge copper wire and you will be set. Any stray capacitance or inductance of a wire less than 20 feet will be negligible and unhearable by a human (and even a dog). Just dont go thinner than 14 gauge and dont get copper clad wire. Make sure it is copper all the way. Save your money. |
@ebm Purist Audio is my favorite cables . Especially Dominus and above . I'd hate to ask how much money you have tied up in Purist Audio cables. I know , that at one time I had Dominus IC,Power and Speaker cables. The good thing is that once you own these and ever run into a financial need , a lot of money can be recouped by selling them , which, unfortunately is what I had to do :( |
@millercarbon this is a dedicated theater room with 50 plus individual channels and seating for 10. This is not a room for dedicated music listening other than multichannel audio recordings. With that said, I already have well over $250,000 into the room so figured would upgrade my Canare speaker cabling if could figure out a good neutral speaker cable that might add some more clarity or detail to the system without taking anything else away. This is the best I know how to describe what I hear when listen to A/B demos over the internet. My speakers/amps/processor are already dead silent with as black a background as I could ever ask for I would imagine. I can’t hear any sort of sounds coming from any of the drivers when there isn’t supposed to be and the dynamics are huge with the gear I have matched together. It’s literally crazy how the dynamics swing effortlessly. What I’m hoping to achieve with speaker cables and power cables is like a lifting of a veil kinda. Bring out more of what may be left in the recordings, if that is possible as the AMTs and Beyma mids are extremely revealing already. The soundstage is also huge in both height and width. It literally takes up the entire 18’ width of the room and 10’ height no problem but it could be more defined or layered (sorry not sure on proper term to use there). I’m already using great interconnects but nothing I would consider as high end. And I’m also using pretty decent speaker cabling to all the subs, all 200+ feet of OFC #10. But if there is anything I can gain without jumping to the upper extremes then I’m game. Hope that clears it up a little. Bests Alex |
A source component and a receiving component and a wire form a transfer function, and no one can guess, without knowing exactly the source and receiving component, how any cable will behave beyond generalities, i.e. like a low inductance cable "may" increase your output at 20KHz by a fraction of a db, or increasing the gauge of your cable may increase the bass output primarily by a fraction of a db. Beyond that it is guessing and conjecture which is why there is absolutely 0 consensus. Fix your acoustics if you have not already. It's a way better investment. As you DIY, you should be able to identify cable bottle necks. If you can't, perhaps that is not it? |
Study and learn: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 Notice: really high end interconnects and speaker cables, pretty good power cords, el cheapo wire to the subs. Because I have tried better wire in different places over the years, and this is where it pays and where it does not pay to spend the money. Also notice, no center, surround, processor, etc. Been there, done that. Like you yourself said, having so many things means you cannot afford quality. But quality is what we are after. So.... |
I believe wire can definitely impact tone but where you get into trouble is when you try to use wire to "fix" tone problems/dislikes associated with other parts of your system. I've gone down that path and ultimately have always replaced the offending piece of gear despite improvements I was able to make with a cable. |
There are quite a few cables that use "A BOX" at the beginning of the run. It usually has an inductor, and some, have a bass notch. Others use a second network at the end of the run for HF attenuation, and UHF cut, usually around 19 - 20K. Yes they have tone control. Some use the "the box" to add different wire composition in series, and or parallel. Sometimes the negative, or the positive, or both. I used a lot of different types, and sizes on turret boards.. The cable themselfs, have a signature too. No doubt Aluminum, vs copper, vs silver, vs a clad of tin, copper, silver, or gold on the conductor. Solid core, multi strand, mixed stand, shielding, dielectrics, covers and armor... Then there is bare or tinned. A lot use terminals, same thing, copper, brass, silver, tinned, bronze, Alu, SS. Carbon. They all sound the same? Then there is WAR PAINT... You know the stuff you paint on and let settle between all the connections... Usually, super conductive. Oh yea it all changes the sound.... Regards |
If you’re just getting started on cables check out Canare for speaker cable and interconnects. Is there better... yes there is but it’s going to cost a lot to embarrass Canare and actually you won’t as it’s a very good neutral cable and does nothing wrong. Used in recording studios and by pros and yes I own and speaking on experience. Lots of places sell it so not hard to find. You’ll find it on Amazon, BH Photo and probably others will chime in where they have purchased from. This is a great cable to start with and you may stop here as well and save a lot of money. |
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