Having A Tough Time Justifying More Than One Table
Currently have three tables on the system, and have run at least two for a number of years. I do remember back when I was younger and had fewer greenbacks to my disposal that I would run one table that was the best I could afford. That is actually my M.O. - only one of each. But I have broke that trend with turntables.
But as I sit here and listen to my main table, a SOTA Cosmos Eclipse withe SME V and a Transfiguration Proteus I wonder why I bother with the others. Also residing on the stereo cabinet is a Well Tempered Reference with a ZYX 4D on it, and a Brinkmann Bardo with Audiomods Series 6 and Ortofon A90 on it. Both are very nice sounding tables, but neither are on the same level as the SOTA. The Brinkmann might have more I can coax out of it with a better arm, and that is something I have considered.
Yet I wonder, why bother? Sometimes I think I should buy another cartridge on par with the Proteus and just rotate them when one goes off for refurbishment.
This is what I get for thinking on a quiet weekend morning and having too much coffee....
Dear @neonnight : In reality no one needs 3 TTs ( I have it. ) but only one with facilities for 3 tonearms.
You can't make comparisons in between your analog rig becauase the 3 TTs has different tonearms.
Now, you own very good cartridges but any one that already heard the Proteus there is no return: great quality performer but with same tonearms ( almost no matters different TTs only that be decent TTs. ) different cartridges gives you different signature to your listening sessions. Many times it's not which is better because as your samples all are very good but different presentation.
So my advise is to even tonearms, so you have to listen all your cartridges in the 3 tonearms and then decide about. Yes I know that with the WT is not so easy to test it.
What I probably should do is purchase another arm and have a board cut by SOTA for it. They will ensure the weight is correct for the suspension and therefore I can just bolt it in and do not have to worry about leveling it. That is the beauty of the hung suspension on a SOTA. I could swap arms/cartridges in just a few minutes and be ready to play music. Suspended tables dont accept multiple arms easily, but this is the best solution given its architecture. I don't want to go down the road of arm discussions as what happened in another thread, but I do value quality arms and what they bring to the table....snort. But this an option I have been kicking around.
I have thought about the Mutech Hiyabusa, which happens to have a shared history with Transfiguration. But its just a thought.
Dear @neonknight : Sota is better than the audiophiles could think but for a really unknow reasons they diminished and go for other option that not only don't beats Sota but that performs in an inferior way than Sota.
Only reason to have more than one is you enjoy having more than one. Always thought the whole point of component selection, auditioning, and all of that, was to find the best. Otherwise its a whole lot easier to just buy lots and lots of stuff. Oops. Did I just rain on someone's parade? 😂
Ok Ok Ok, my comment was ONLY THREE?, Maybe 3 of one kind. I know I have 25-30, units. Maybe 3 are for parts. But at least 20 work as they should, from a TT perspective. I love the old Garrard Zero 100, not because its a good turntable, but because it looks so cool and fully automatic, and WORKS perfect all 4 of my little collection, I like GRK, Sparta, My personal favorite, Russco and Fairchild. I have a 47lb monster I'm working off, more than on. Thoren 121, 124, 224, 145, 160, 165, 166 Garrard Zero 100s, 401, 301.
Most of the them were 100.00 or less, the 121,124,401,301, mostly Gifts. They weren't working...
Tonearms, come and go, I like SME, MS, Jelco, all kinds.
ONE, it's like having one GUN with one BULLET, either way I need more. OCD really gets to kickin' :-)
I feel your pain....lol. While my level of 3 TT is not to your standards I do wonder why at times.
Some days I think, well just sell all three and buy just one with the funds.
But then ,like today, I appreciate the different sonic attributes of each. And right now I do have one set up as a Mono only deck so can sort of discount that from the mix unless I change the Cart... Which is a simple task, doh there I go again.
Three TT just gives me another excuse to buy more cart's. 😇😇
Neonnight, it is very hard to get a better table that is so nice to use and look at as the SOTA. If you get the urge to play around you can have multiple arm boards, and cartridges. I have been talking to Donna about the possibility of putting a Schroder CB on the Cosmos. They are in the process of talking to Frank Schroder now. That would be quite the combo. I would sell everything else and put the money in cartridges, tonearms and music. It seems people just do not understand how good the Cosmos really is. It is an Air Force 1 for 1/10th the price. IMHO it is the best turntable for the money you can buy.
... I love the old Garrard Zero 100, not because its a good turntable, but because it looks so cool and fully automatic ...
As turntables go, the Zero 100 is one of the great sonic disasters of all time. Simply dreadful.
LOL I agree 100%, I just love tinkering. I have a few 100s a 401 and a 301, Neither are as good as my Russcos, I love the huge rim drives, with a gear shift. I can get them pretty darn quiet... They look so cool to me.
Your Sota with the SME V and Tranfiguration is a very nice set-up. I have a Transfiguration on my back-up TT, an LP-12. The formula for acquiring turntables is the same as the one for acquiring Italian bicycles: N+1. (N = the number you already have.)
As you describe, multiple arms on your best table is the choice I would make. Wanting/needing a dust cover is a primary limiting factor for me, you didn’t mention that.
I don’t have the space for more than 1 large TT, I keep a spare TT in storage downstairs, so that I will never be without a TT if the main one is down for ......., you don’t have to part with all the others permanently. Removable headshell on the spare TT’s arm makes it easier to get back in action. ............................
for other’s following, considering more than 1 (arm/tt), a few comments:
Once I got my JVC TT with 2 arms there’s no going back.1 arm with mono cartridge ready to go, 1 stereo ready to go, effortlessly switch back and forth during a listening session. A treat for Jazz, Big Bands ... a lot of great recordings were made before LP’s went stereo in 1958.
For versatility this 3 arm TT appealed to me, it’s attached dust cover, it’s innovative rotating arm boards, it’s compactness. It turned out to be too compact to fit my 12.5" long arm. Those 70mm 7 layer plinths are terrific.
I might have changed the spinner as others mentioned, get quartz locked, people say the DP80 a great choice.
Change/compare arms/cartridges for the rest of your life. Note: the clearances inside the dust cover when closed restrict which arms will fit, i.e. my 12.5" Blackbird will NOT fit. With the dust cover removed, almost any arm would fit. Note: only one of the 3 existing arms has anti-skate.
Dust Cover is a must for me. That attached, stay at any vertical position dust cover would be a great feature (3 hinges I noticed). My 2 arm deck’s removable cover is big, heavy, I have to carefully lift off, put somewhere without damage, carefully put back in place. Every movement is potential for disaster, and scuff marks will accumulate even with caution.
The innovative rotatable circular arm boards allow repositioning for any arm length without drilling new holes, sliding mounts ...(restricted by what arm fits inside the cover). However, the diameter of an arm’s base plate might make the base plate project a bit past the edge of the circle’s edge, just a visual consideration. .........................................
I am keeping my eye out for a rare JVC-Victor 3 arm plinth CL-P3, if anybody sees one, let me know please.
I have considered this too, and have gone back and forth.
Now the Well Tempered Reference is an odd duck of a table, and sounds very nice but is of limited appeal to the current vinyl market. I watched one languish on Audiogon for months with an asking price of $3K for arm and table from an original owner. Zero interest, and perhaps that is due to its 90's era cosmetics.
However, that arm is excellent if you are able to pair it with medium or higher compliance cartridges. It originally came with an Ikeda 9 on it, and that combo was problematic at best. I recently installed my ZYX 4D onto it and it sounds very nice and tracks extremely well. It could be that second table if I want, as I suspect the arm is as good or better than the one on my Brinkmann Bardo, which would be a far easier table to sell.
However, the Well Tempered would never accept another arm, and the Brinkmann would. So at that point I would be locked into two tables that I would not want to pull cartridges off and on with any regularity. As I think about it, I wonder how many times I would want to exchange arm boards on the SOTA, and how good is it for its overall health. Perhaps every few years as I would remove cartridges for maintenance.
Right now this is a thinking through the process and what my alternatives are. I sure clean my system up if I can get down to two tables, as my Esoteric phono stage accepts two inputs, so I could remove the Graham Slee Accession and Elevator combo that supports the third table.
As I sit right now I think moving the Brinkmann on makes the most sense, but its such a darn nice direct drive table. Although when push comes to shove, the SOTA is better in every respect, so it becomes expendable.
The SOTA is understated in its looks, and it does look like the more basic tables such as the Nova or Sapphire, but its an interesting table none the less. The aluminum sub chassis is well done, and when you compare it to other high end subchassis on other suspended tables, it compares quite well. The magnetic bearing assembly is as good as anything out there, and the new platter composition also sounds well balanced tonally compared to previous versions. The motor assembly is not as complex as the multi pulley arrangements, but with the Phoenix Engineering speed control I think it does the job correctly, and is not an over priced over engineered solution. The composite arm boards are pretty darn fine also.
All in all it seems like a well executed design. Perhaps the SME V limits the overall overall performance of the table, and there is something to be gained there. It's just a thought.
Dear @neonknight : " Perhaps the SME V limits the overall overall performance of the table, and there is something to be gained there. It’s just a thought. "
Not exactly to the table but to the cartridges.
Yes new tonearms is a very good option foe the Sota where you will have ( I understand that. ) 2 tonearms.
Exist very good tonearms that performs a little better than the V like: Origin Live Agile, Kuz ma 4point or Reed. Of course that exist other tonearms options. Kuzma and Reed has th removable headshell option that is a useful characterisitc.
You need one turntable for stereo, with a LOMC, one turntable for a stereo MM, one turntable for mono post-70s vinyl, one turntable for mono LPs from 1957-1970, one turntable for pre-1957 mono, and one turntable for 78s. So you need 6 turntables. Or one turntable with 6 arms.
To fit the narrow width, and fit inside of the dust cover when on, only a compact arm fits.
I found a Mission 744, which is made by Jelco, the 250ST. Short 210mm spindle to post and short rear counterweight design. Many adapter plates exist also
I’m washing/selling LP’s on eBay. Playing to verify how quiet, no skips/blips … I realized I was unnecessarily wearing my MC fixed stylus, thus I added the 3rd arm to use MM replaceable stylus. Removable headshell for versatility: ML/Elliptical/Conical
Elliott is the person that inspired me to build a Victor based TT. I to have a CL2P plinth with the two arm boards but I'm using the TT 71 motor drive instead. I wanted the ability to try multiple tonearms so being a machinist I made new armboards out of 3/4" thick aluminum plate. I machine a recess to take smaller sub plates made out of 1/4" aluminum plate that can be swapped out in just a few minutes complete with arm and cartridge. I made it to a degree of precision that as long as I don't disturb any settings, the arm, cartridge and sub plate will just drop back in ready to play.Right now I'm using an ATP-12T with some mods I did in the back position and a Victor UA-7045 on the right side.If you go to AK and look up the thread "
JVC QL-?? owners thread" , starting on page 11 and ending on page 12 are some pictures of my build. I think it was rather innovative the approach I took to building new armboards for this TT. I don't recall seeing anything else quite like it.I have a Victor UA-7082 on deck to be mounted next, just have to machine the sub plate. Hopefully it will be completed sometime in the next two weeks. After that, I have a Fidelity Research FR-54 to experiment with thanks to my friend Elliott.
So my solution was to leave the Brinkmann go. I still have the Audiomods Series 6 arm here, and that can go on the SOTA as I have another arm board that fits that arm. So if I choose to audition another cartridge then I can do it on that arm, just remove the SME V and Proteus and not have to worry about uninstalling it or setting it back up at another time.
The Well Tempered stays as it is a great platform for the ZYX 4D cartridge, and it was my least expensive table. I find I enjoy it for casual listening, so in a way it gets the most play time. When the ZYX diamond is too worn, it will go to Expert Stylus to get fitted with a new diamond This can be done with the stock cantilever, so with a tune up by an experienced technician I believe I will get a cartridge back that is as close to stock as possible. While the Paratrace diamond may be different in some respects to a microridge cut, i think the differences in mass will be negligible and the stock cantilever assembly being preserved will be of more importance than variations in diamond cut.
The Esoteric E-03 accepts two inputs, so both tables are wired to it I can remove the Graham Slee, and the Accession and Elevator will be going to a friend of mines to be used in his system. So I free up some capital, gain a bit of real estate in my cabinet, and simplify the system. I have two decent tables that are enjoyable to listen to, and brings the system configuration into an arrangement that meets my needs.
Dear Neon, Your experience here is like an alcoholic visiting his favorite pub in order to get help with his drinking problem. There's nothing wrong with your acquisitive habit; it's up to you to decide whether and how much to control it.
It is like guitars, bikes, ..., You always want what you have plus one. So, it is never enough. For me three arms are reasonable (1 mono + 2 stereo cartridges for MC and MM). Four is better (1 mono + 3 stereos for 1 MM, 1 LOMC and 1 HOMC). If the space is a concern, you can have one table with four arms.
I have 3 tables because I have 3 separate systems located in different parts of the house. I might go down to 2 as one system is almost 100% streaming.
IMO, its better to keep the three different tables than one with three arms. If something happens to to the motor, belt etc - it's over and you'd wish you had that other table.
I have 3 tables because I have 3 separate systems located in different parts of the house. I might go down to 2 as one system is almost 100% streaming.
i am definitely playing records a lot less as i am streaming sooo much more these days
streaming is just more fun, less work for my lazy a--... 🤫
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