Blu-Tac is the opposite of isolation. It actually fixes or fastens things together. My HFT are held on the walls and speakers with Blu-Tac. Next best thing to hot glue. Anyone telling you this is isolation don't walk, run. They are clueless.
Sorry. Yet another example of just because someone is good at one thing does not make them good at another.
Springs are better. Not "may be". Are. So first of all look under your subs at the factory feet. They are probably screwed on. If not then you are screwed. But if they are screwed, first simply remove the factory feet. Drill and tap Nobsound. Or drill and nut. Or if not threaded you still are not screwed, here is where you can use your Blu-Tac or hot glue or silicone, any semi-permanent fastener.
More semi-permanent fastener on the springs. A third dose on the bottoms, to fasten plastic furniture gliders on the bottom of the Nobsound. Done. For $35 all-in. Maybe less. Shop around, there are slightly different versions of Nobsound find the best ones for your situation. |
Rel actually recommends nothing...I was using isolation platforms on my S510 subs left over from previous Rel subs...Watched the video John from Rel made about this subject...Removed the platforms,set them directly on the hardwoods and wambam...much much better deep controlled bass...I think they only suggest blue tack if you have wobbling from uneven floors.According to John the rels are designed and engineered with an exact distance from the floor to the passive driver,changing that distance causes many problems in what the sub will do......watch the video! |
I've tried several brands of isolation devices,also stone or concrete slabs under my subs.Without fail the sound is worse. I expected to hear a difference but was surprised at the denigration. This was with SVS subs and also HSU subs.Something to consider before any drilling or gluing commences:-)
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I use the SVS Soundpsth Feet under my SVS sub and the sub being on the second floor of my house vibrated the floor. I put the SVS feet under the sub and no more noise downstairs and the bass tightened up tremendously. |
You are right @ millercarbon. My mistake. It couples it to the floor which is what Rel wants to happen. I knew Rel’s had a different approach. I just didn’t know how big the difference is. This may be the reason for poor reviews by some. I suspect that posting this tidbit will only give cannon fodder to the Rel haters.
From the article
The cost of the Blu-Tack solution is extremely affordable and it works better than any other material. We do not recommend the use of spikes or platforms as they do not work well on RELs or any high-quality sub. Remember, the goal is to couple the subwoofer to the floor and transfer the energy into the room. The more efficient the subwoofer’s mechanical pathway is, as is true with REL subwoofers, the bigger the jackhammer. Platforms change the height off the ground (as do spikes) which will have a negative effect on the performance of your REL. The higher off the ground, the less bass will transfer into your room. You may well be surprised at how much better the sound is once this has been completed and for almost zero cost. Enjoy.
https://rel.net/blog/2018-08-08/how-to/solutions-for-hard-floors/ |
I have carpet over a suspended wood floor above the basement. When I had my pair of RELs sitting on the floor it created too much resonance. I ordered the Auralux SubDudes and solved the issue, The great thing about it is I am not changing the distance from the down firing woofer as the SubDude has a firm, floor like surface underpinned by an isolating foam hence I am able to couple then decouple. |
Do what sounds best period.
My Rel T9i sounded much better with a subdude platform. The bass is way more defined and heard more. With the sub directly on the ground it is felt more but does not sound better in my application. |
Agreed @b_limo . Exact same experience. |
I have suspended wood floors. The subdude did not work for me at all. I got acoustic feedback from my turntable even though my REL528 SE subwoofer was far from the turntable. I had to use blu-tak like REL recommended. I also tried decoupling with Nobsound springs, but preferred the blu-tak sound in the end. Different strokes for different folks. |
The issue is the passive radiator is NOT loaded in a slot.
The way this sub is designed it is for ONE thing to "Jackhammer".
Simply said it is made to vibrate the whole friggin' house..
Stacked would really amplify and increase the transfer.
I can't think of a worse design for fidelity... 1970-80s bass tech.
The height of the sub off the floor will remove the boundary and first reflection point for the passive on the bottom. It would dissipate much quicker and produce a different standing wave issue (not a problem though)
I would add a thick bottom plate, with a 3-4" slot. Then isolate it with springs from the floor.... Pretty simple fix. You can block any side or sides of the slot.
I'm surprised anyone uses this type of sub in a stereo environment, maybe HT or a kids trunk.
Even the kids are learning to decouple 100hz < from the interior of their cars. It stops them from rattling apart "as bad". That's right SPRINGS between the bottom and top of the sub boxes with slot loaded, passive slots or IB (no ports).
Regards |
Thanks guys. FWIW, my system sounds fabulous. But I've learned that through the tweaks I have made that it can sound even more fabulous. Thus my question? That said, .... @b_limo & @
dadork Thanks for the recommendation. Though it does seem to go against the REL design, I will check it out. @rdk777 After reading and listening to the REL rep in the link I provided, I understand why you had the results you did.
@oldhvymec I understand your concerns. Honestly, I had the same thought AFTER I listened to the video which I posted. It's also the reason I said "isolation" in my OP because my mind would not accept the idea of coupling the sub.
That said, I've owned REL subs for 15-18 yrs. They have always been known as being excellent for music. Quite honestly, they sound great when properly set up. But early on users most always recommended turning the crossover as low as possible which sounded right and the volume no higher than necessary. the sub should disappear just like the speakers should do. Most Most people who know me knows of my love of good bass. This is probably due to my playing drums for 50 yrs and the importance of hearing the bass. That said, I disagree with many who prefer the "fast & tight" bass of SS. I was never fully please with the SS amps because my experience tells me that bass is NOT tight. It was only after trying a tube amp that I got "proper" sounding bass. I would recommend everyone to watch the Rel video. they talk about their filters being very important. I have no real electronics knowledge. But I know sound which is why I choose the Rel. But I will be re-thinking and trying to make sense of it all. |
The only feet you ever put on a subwoofer are spikes. Any vibration of the subwoofer in operation is distortion. Ideally only the cone is supposed to vibrate but in real life Newton usually wins out and the whole enclosure shakes and actually moves. I have seen subs walk across an unlevel floor! Subs have to be held firmly in place. The best subs now use what is called a balanced force design. They put identical drivers in opposite sides of an enclosure and run them in phase so the forces cancel out. As long as the enclosure is super stiff this is the best way to build a subwoofer. Magico, Kef and others are now using this design. But, it requires a second driver elevating the cost. |
When you couple ANY frequency to anything other than the driver and its cabinet you get at least two different signals at two different times.
You can do it that way if you like the outcome, BUT the fact is it will be smeared.
The floor (no matter the construction) will deliver a BASS signal faster than the driver can push air.. In the seated position you will FEEL the signal before you hear it..
If that is what you like, then, that is what you like.. I don’t.. Never have..
Spike have NEVER worked.. They kind of work on a TT only because the rest of the TT shelf is isolated on air, springs or pods...
I worked around foundational ground support for to many years, there is no such thing as solid enough.. Everything moves, Everything vibrates..
How much is the question...
You will NEVER see a power plant spiked in a stationary spot. EVER they are isolated if not they would BREAK.
You don’t ask people who build speakers how to isolate things, you ask people who isolate Buildings and Bridges how to do it when there is an earthquake going on..
No need to play catchup, just READ how everyone else on the planet isolates STUFF.. Speakers are easy. People who DON’T know squat about destructive harmonics, need to learn a thing or two, first, before making statements like spikes work. They do something, just not a good thing, compared to isolation.
HD Field Mechanic Retired. Hydraulics.
You just think you know about vibration and dampening...
Regards |
I think ill go with what the designers and engineers at Rel suggest to do as opposed to listenng to posters on this site |
Leave the gun-take the cannoli.
What would make your wife happy?
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I think ill go with what the designers and engineers at Rel suggest to do as opposed to listenng to posters on this site.
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Quite a few people bought the Edsel too. Was it a BAD design?
Push button gear select? You tell me.. stupid name for sure.
Just because a manufacture pumps out subs, doesn’t mean the design is great for all application..
Like I said. Jackhammer, the bottom fire passive without a butt plate is total KID stuff.. 1970-80 tech.. HT maybe... You CAN’T decouple that type of sub... It has to be in a slot.. or not at all and move the passive to the sides or even the top and spring load or air ride the bottom..
Mine are better, by no small margin, pure and simple. GRs servo system is really good to.. When you build them, you learn.. hopefully..
When you sell them.. LOL there is a price point. ADDING a bottom plate is expensive.. LOL 20.00 at least. And then isolation.. 50.00 MORE for a REAL stereo system sub..
Not a REL, though it is good looking.. I could make it work correctly for ME..
Regards |
I think ill go with what the designers and engineers at Rel suggest to do as opposed to listenng to posters on this site. I have talked to at least a dozen different designers and engineers. Every single one of them said no don't do that. Caps, diodes, fuses, springs, power cords- you name it. You can ask as many as you like, I don't care, I challenge you to find one anywhere who says anything that cannot be boiled down to: "We use only the best, you cannot improve, do not even try." This is for any component- amp, speaker, sub, cable ANY component- and any part - fuse, power cord, footer, cap, resistor, diode ANYTHING - it is all the same answer. Go ahead, find me the one who tells you, "Yeah good idea we have to meet a price point and you don't so you can do a lot better." I won't be holding my breath. |
In the last month or so I have used 3 Nobsound spring feet on each of three SVS sealed subs in my listening room. I pull out most all the springs and have no difficulty with the subs staying in position on carpet. The reduced bass through the suspended wood floor was noticeable.
I've been too lazy to do serious AB (springs in/springs out) comparisons yet but the sound is as good, without 'floor effects'. Put three under my turntable as well; I think they're more suited to mechanical issues. Would like to try under my speakers but need to think of a very safe way... :-)
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