Has anybody bought or heard a Chinese knock off amplifier?
There are a lot clones coming out of China and power amplifiers seem to be along for the ride. Mark Levinson, Goldmund, and Accuphase are some of the big names I see replica’s being advertised for sale. These replica’s range in price from $500-$2000. My curiosity every time I see these always is do they even sound like the brand they are trying copy? Another thought that comes to my mind when I see them is, are they even safe or reliable. I myself wouldn’t touch one of these, but that’s me. Has anybody heard one? If so it would be interesting to hear some opinions regarding these amplifiers.
Mahgister, your English goes from precise to old Andy Kaufman “foreign man” depending on what you are saying and how pissed you are about something..... just sayin.
I commend you for your observation....I thank you for because any honest feedback is the salt of life...
By the way your observation is exactly right after listening Kaufman... I recognized myself in him when passion submerge me without the safe lifeboat of syntax and idioms.... 😁
I apologize for sure for my bad English mastery, you must know i never spoke and never speak English where i live and science books or documentaries instead of William Blake are not the royal road to a more Chestertonian English....
And more than that my grade in Latin, Greek, and English and mathematics were not very high.... But after 20, i begin to read about mathematics and sciences in English, and begin a love affair also with linguistic and poetry....i thanks God now for the Greek and Latin i hated at the time, i learned a great deal about history with them without even being conscious of learning...
"Mahgister, your English goes from precise to old Andy Kaufman “foreign man” depending on what you are saying and how pissed you are about something..... just sayin."
I noticed this too. Not being critical, just curious. The style of expression is sometimes very much in keeping with English as a second language, but at other times it's markedly more sophisticated. He always strikes me as very decent too. Not like many of us here. Interested to know more Mahgister...
Do not buy a clone amp they will have low grade parts, circuits, sound and performance. Real is Real for a reason and in this case it would be a big mistake to take the gamble.
I noticed this too. Not being critical, just curious. The style of expression is sometimes very much in keeping with English as a second language, but at other times it’s markedly more sophisticated. He always strikes me as very decent too. Not like many of us here. Interested to know more Mahgister...
People here are very generous with me....
Thanks...
Even if i never spoke English in my life, save for few minutes sometimes, i listened to english everyday....
Being lazy i deduced the meaning of the words often from the context without going much in a dictionary at the times...Now with a computer it is way more easy.... This is particularly easy to read not knowing English much with science litterature which is generally very gross...i dont read novel much in english....Biographies sometimes....Mostly science or maths books...
My first English ectasy apart for Poetry reading like Emily Dickinson for example come from philosopher like George Santayana incisive but magnificent prose... I remember reading his philosophical point in his book about scepticism and faith and gradually losing my grip on his subtle reasoning but going on anyway in awe by his style and his fluid embodied thinking... It was my first conscious english ectasy....I hoped my english would have been better to read him more deeply engaged at the time....
«Some mind are so beautiful my dear, i forget they are only mind»-Groucho Marx
«In beautiful forms, no more body, nor spirit, but only a musical indwelling »-Anonymus Smith
"Being lazy i deduced the meaning of the words often from the context without going much in a dictionary at the times..."
That is how you actually learn it in, let's call it, "second stage". First you go to the dictionary and once you start getting more "involved" there is no time for dictionary.
That is how you actually learn it in, let's call it, "second stage". First you go to the dictionary and once you start getting more "involved" there is no time for dictionary.
Among those for whom English was not a first language: Joseph Conrad, Vladimir Nabokov, Anais Nin, Henry Kissinger. I don't think MG needs to defend himself! one of the problems with writing in one's 'first language' is that it is a seemingly inexhaustible source of vacuous cliches and expressions.
Je commence a’ penser que tu connais Groucho Marx personnellement!
Only the rich can lend to the poor, and a poor fellow like me stole only from the rich; it is not necessary to know him to borrow his name, giving to my nudity a magnificent veil....
My friend’s grandfather used to teach, better to say forced, him and his brother to speak French. It was from some older books. I am not sure as old as Rabelais, but not current. The boys learned as much as they could and then went to Paris. People were laughing at them as, apparently, that was not the language style people spoke anymore. Not that I know much about those differences, but that is what they told me.
The N.O. of cricket, or the N.O. of matter and energy teleportation using the mind, specifically utilizing both hemispheres of the brain to create a channel through which the flow of matter and energy is realized? Either way, bit of an odd post....N.O.thing wrong with that, simply making an observation.
My friend’s grandfather used to teach, better to say forced, him and his brother to speak French
Nevermind the language chosen they were great friends.... And Frenchies of Paris are a bit too much precious about any french accent other than Paris.... Then it is possible that their french was indeed probably good in spite of the bad faith of some Parisian opinion.... 😊 Good story....
Here in Quebec we never guillotine the King, and we come here at the era of Rabelais....We go with the indians in the forest and killed only when attacked.... We have all our Hurons here in quebec.... Where are the Indians of the east coast ? And we navigate and walked all Us before Americans.... I apologize for a bit of national pride..... 😁
Nothing to do with China, or Paris, but a little piece of unimportant info you may find interesting...
The first commercial compact disc was produced on 17 August 1982. It was a recording from 1979 of Claudio Arrau performing Chopin waltzes (Philips 400 025-2). Arrau was invited to the Langenhagen plant to press the start button.
Nothing to do with China, or Paris, but a little piece of unimportant info you may find interesting...
The first commercial compact disc was produced on 17 August 1982. It was a recording from 1979 of Claudio Arrau performing Chopin waltzes (Philips 400 025-2). Arrau was invited to the Langenhagen plant to press the start button.
Very interesting because Arrau is a great interpreter of Chopin.... I will try to listen to it thanks.... That add a particular "aura" to this cd....
I know that the Chinese deliberately chose to NOT industrialize
Your ignorance appear much with each post sorry....
China was dominated by the superiority of English power and other european country....
The country was inundated with opium killing all spirit by the "noble" british empire... And for 4 thousand years China look at european like recently civilized apes that stole all technology from them... And it is historic truth...The list i give to you at the end is only a short one....
European cannot do this trick with the more ferocious Japan which refuse any contact in his Island before america force it b by arms...japan was quick to learn everything et became the first asian winner in a war with Russia ...
Sure, the Chinese may have invented the tooth brush a thousand years ago but Laser guided munitions they had to steal from us...
Your ignorance is more clear here... Tootbrush is what you would had invented yourself this year without the import of technology from china by commercial road BEFORE even Roman empire....
then read that, i am pretty sure that you will not read a book:
Time between discoveries in China and the West (source: Joseph Needham *) (ex: 800 years passed between the discovery of vaccination in China and its discovery in Europe)
Oil and gas use: 2300 Paper: 1400 Wheelbarrow: 1300 Caliper: 1700 Porcelain: 1700 Umbrella-Umbrella: 1200 Matches: 1000 Printing: 700 - movable type: 400 Paper Money: 850 Seismograph: 1400 Navigable canals at levels: 1900 Rudder: 1100 Watertight bulkheads: 1,700
Medicine Blood circulation: 1800 Circadian rhythm of the bodies: 2150 Endocrinology: 2100 Diabetes / Urinalysis: 1000 Thyroid hormone usage: 1250 Vaccination: 800
Maths. Decimal system: 2300 Zero square: 1400 Negative numbers: 700 Magnetism Compass: 1500 Declination of the earth’s magnetic field: 600
Education The first draft of the examination dates back to an edict of 134 BC. AD under Emperor Han Wudi who founded a school to train future civil servants in Confucian classics. One of its most important reforms is the establishment in 134 BC. J.-C. competitive examination for the recruitment of civil servants. The system of exams is fixed under the Sui Dynasty (581-618). In 606, under Emperor Sui Yang, the Jinshi was established an advanced examination system for the selection of civil servants *
Joseph Needham, author of the great encyclopedia on Science in China of which Wiki says: One of the pioneers in the field, he contributed to the recognition of China’s scientific past with, in particular, the publication of the monumental Science and Civilization in China (en), an encyclopedic collection that addresses all the developments in Chinese science.
By the way this is not CCP propaganda but science history.....
I hate all domination empires, British one or Chinese one in Tibet etc...I dont hate british citizen or chinese people....I hate CCP and some other political parties all around the world now....
I respect history....
I like knowledge and i love freedom....
I apologize for being rude but try to control what you say in relation to truth....
Regarding China, Mahgister is the one who knows what he's talking about. I bet most of the others have never been to China and are "experts" based on CNN. CCP enjoys huge popularity and support in China, much more than any GOP or Dem government will ever get in USA. Mistrust of China is ridiculous, how often does China send soldiers to invade another country? USA sends soldiers abroad to kill and conquer all the time. Back on topic, if you look at the way Chinese counterfeits are made and sold you will realise they are not meant to replace the real thing and are also not meant to fool a buyer. These are for people who want to fool other people into thinking they have the real thing. Same as counterfeit bags or watches. If you want original quality you buy the real thing.
Short response: if it breaks or comes to you nonfunctional, will you be able to say "Oh well", and throw it away or try to fix it yourself? Long response: There are some really good Chinese products, but if you have an issue or your component breaks and you can't speak Chinese, forget it. If you must buy Chinese, go through a seller in your own country. A lot of their HIFI components are not particularly cheap, so if it breaks you are left with a paperweight/doorstop. Even with the name products (not counterfeits) it can be difficult/impossible to get satisfaction. I've had issues with Topping products in that I was sent a UK plug for US use and spent many weeks just trying to get the Chinese dealer to understand that I needed the US one (Shenzhen Audio didn't give me the option of picking US/UK plug, and Topping usually sends both). Never resolved - instead of sending me the correct wall wart adapter I needed, they sent me an IEC power cord which was useless for it. Sent pictures of what I needed, and got back polite, nonsensical responses. Second was a Topping DAC that had the lettering on the front upside down (same seller) - they offered $20 refund for a $750 unit. Even with a company like Denafrips, you can't return something just if you don't like it, and any repairs you need (even under warranty) after 30 days you have to pay shipping costs to send it back to them. The Chinese knockoff guitars of famous brands are nowhere near the quality of the US models but they don't even try to pretend that they're the real deal (and they're a lot cheaper), so you know what you're getting.
Mistrust of China is ridiculous, how often does China send soldiers to invade another country?
You might like to address that question to our friends in India at this very moment. Or pose that first part to our friends in Hong Kong and Taiwan. Or Vietnam. Or Thailand. Or Cambodia. Or any country near the South China Sea.
if you look at the way Chinese counterfeits are made and sold you will realise they are not meant to replace the real thing and are also not meant to fool a buyer. These are for people who want to fool other people into thinking they have the real thing
Going to need a second cup of tea before I can even begin to absorb that one...
I've read about these clones of high-end brands from the likes of FM Acoustics etc. from China on another forum 2 or 3 years ago. Apparently someone bought the clones and compared them to the original. It was reported that there is a difference in sound quality between the units but it is not significant and very close.
I don't think anyone here in their right mind will consider buying clones or counterfeit gear from China. Personally I don't buy anything Made in China for my hifi.
Currently listening to a Chinese Icepower amp - 50ASX2SE into Klipsch Forte speakers. $160 shipped. Arrived in about 2 weeks. Very smooth tube-like sounding with nice bass and midrange.
I paid $20 for a Chinese tube preamp and modded it to a cathode follower circuit. Sounds great buffering my DAC and phono preamp.
Was a time when anything made in Japan was considered a joke. Not anymore and China is following the same path. I own a Chinese made 5 string banjo which costs $1,000 now. It holds it own against a 5K American made instrument.
I would certainly advise caution when purchasing this Chinese stuff but my experience has been good.
I beg your pardon... BTW, It’s Math not Maths... (even my spellchecker flagged this one). Now about that slave labor... And " killing all spirit by the "noble" british empire" -Better work on your Hate as well, bub...
Is "It’s" after a comma really a capital letter?
Would there be a comma after "Math"?
Would the sentence be better if it did not start with "And" in that example?
Is space between quotation and Killing needed?
Should there be a space between the dash and "Better" as it is between "empire" and the dash?
A number of posts earlier in the thread discuss mahgister’s language skills. If your French is better than his English, you may try to tell him how you feel again.
Questions above are true questions. We all want to learn.
asiaaudiosoc4 posts02-05-2021 4:10am .......Back on topic, if you look at the way Chinese counterfeits are made and sold you will realise they are not meant to replace the real thing and are also not meant to fool a buyer.........
That might be true for some items, for others, the exact opposite is the case. There are multitudes of counterfeit Chinese goods on the market that have every last detail of the original, every marking, including the brand name. This extends to the packaging, as well. Ebay is full of items like this, the auctions/sellers are located in China.
I lived in Shanghai for 5.5 years from 2009 to 2014. The knockoff bags, shoes, backpack, watches, etc etc all looked very good! But they were total and complete s**t! All of it. Some of the larger established Chinese brands are actually pretty good. Shengya, Cayin, etc are pretty good and very well priced, especially bought in China. I would be very wary of these look a like knockoff amplifiers being any good and would also be concerned about the safety of the product. No free lunch.
Think you said you are a reader of biographies. I doubt there is a more fascinating subject than Rimbaud.
One of the most extraordinary bio is about one of the most extraordinary man...
RIchard Francis Burton, the only genius, on par with Freud and Lévy-Strauss, in their fields, whom was a linguist speaking perfectly at least 45 or 55 languages, one of the greatest translator of English Litterature, one great Poet and Writers on hiw own, One of the greatest explorer of the British Empire, and a man among men, who beat 7 times the greatest french swordsman...
But the most incredible one is not this one...
Try William James Sidis, an easy man to evaluate... We can consult his conference at Harvard at 11 years old about the projection of 4 dimensional body in Euclidean 3 -d space... At this age he was speaking almost all main European languages and has already create an artificial language of his own, apparently better than Esperanto.... The list of his feats is too incredible to be believe... His I.Q. has no way to be measured by apes... He lived vouching to remain unknown but cannnot be successful....He discovered black Hole by theoretical reflexion like Laplace in his only physic book at 17 years old and published it on his name at 20... Norbert Wiener himself a prodigious genius speak of him in his autobiography and even Wiener seems less talented when we compared the speed of childhood development...
Some life are too extraordinary to be believe.... And so turn the earth....
Archimedes was so intelligent that if enough people on earth had understood him rightly at his times, humanity may have been able to travel to the moon one thousand years ago.... He created the infinitesimal calculus and the infinite concept before Newton did... But it was a greek who let few pages....Probably with Tesla, Ramanujan. Gauss and Goethe, and Leonardo, one of the greatest soul to live...
Imagine the genius of Goethe, a poet that use more words than Shakespeare and Rabelais, and a first order biologist, contradicting Newton and refutating it about the physics of colors....Goethe was so intelligent that the philosophy of his time has no appeal to him and he founded the philosophical phenomenology on more secure ground than even Husserl after him....
Just a couple of observations, I was perusing eBay the other day looking at McIntosh. In the listings was a MC 275. It looked just like an MC 275 until they got to the detailed pics. The side of the unit had a different name (can't remember what it was but,) the McIntosh script name was something different, not McIntosh. Looked like it and included the 275 designation. Secondly, If anyone cares to remember the early Walmart ads touting everything was "made in America". That's long gone away. Now they'd pretty much have to say everything is "Made in China". The greed of corporate America has forced everything to China (or other off-shore locations). It's had nothing to do with unions or the tree huggers. I've said it for years, if this trend continues, there will be no one left to buy the refrigerators. Their $15 an hr. minimum wage salary just won't get it. Pay people a living wage and stop padding the bottom line. Put the quality back into the products and not the profit. Sure, the stock values will decline a bit at first but how much is enough (profit)? Long live Madman Muntz! AB
I don't know about amps but recently I have been exposed to complex computer cards performing complex operations manufactured by American companies which the Chinese have cloned PERFECTLY including the software and you can't barely tell if these are original or not, even more you contact the American company with the serial number and they verified was authentic (and I know it was a clone).
"Goethe was so intelligent that the philosophy of his time has no appeal to him..."
The philosophy of my time has no appeal to me, but I am aware that intelligence is overrated.
"...he was speaking almost all main European languages..."
Much bigger bragging rights would come with "...he was speaking almost all non-main European languages..."
Be it what it is, according to the almighty Wikipedia, it seems that some of the claims were exagerrated despite him clearly being an unusually gifted person.
I agree that they could and sometimes do,but they rarely (if at all) clone an amp perfectly.
As there is nowhere near as much reward in copying an amplifier ....as there is in copying even the most mundane of computer cards and/or computer technology.
Some facts cannot be an exageration....Some can...
They exist or not, like his conference at Harvard officially recorded, or like his description of black hole in a book... Then affirming after that that some facts are exagerated, yes probably some are.... But the main point of his genius in history is not and even cannot be negated nor reduced because of the others proven facts....Superficial scepticicism can negate it , founding a new sceptic club, and calling it a myth.... 😁
The philosophy of my time has no appeal to me, but I am aware that intelligence is overrated.
Whithout offending you ,you are beside the point...The fact that thephilosophy of your time has no appeal to you does not means the same thing in your case than in the case of Goethe...
Can you understand and state clearly why for example Charles Sanders Peirce denying some Kant point of view, reverse to it in his own way, promoting a kind of phenomenology very different than Goethe one...
You cannot , not because you are not interested, but mainly because that does not make sense for you.... Then you cannot assimilate Goethe understanding of phenomenology from his reading of Spinoza against the nominalism of his time, and your own desinterest for your own contemporary philosophers neighbours motivated by a lack of understanding to his complete understanding... No?
Intelligence is not I.Q. and cannot be overated....
I.Q. is always overrated.... Marilyn Vos Savant is supposed to be on par with Goethe in I.Q. points...There is even NO comparison at all between the genius of one and the real and very great intelligence of this woman tough...
As there is nowhere near as much reward in copying an amplifier ....as
there is in copying even the most mundane of computer cards and/or
computer technology.
Exactly, they made better profits copying these cards than they would with an amp.
I'll keep my comment focused solely on audiophile equipment manufacturing. There's definitely a shift in consumer mindset when it comes to what the somewhat 'seasoned' generation of audiophiles values and prioritizes when buying audio gear. If you look at well-known and well-respected audio companies in the western hemisphere and Japan, a few attributes stand out (in no particular order): high fidelity, very high standards when it comes to design and manufacturing, emphasis on long-term reliability (we're talking 20+ years), and pride in craftsmanship and ownership.
The younger audiophile generation is different. Instead of craftsmanship and pride of ownership, its mental model revolves around 'planned obsolescence' and a 'data driven' mindset. Whether it's electronics, clothes, shoes, cars, you name it, they 'expect' things to not last more than a few years. That's how we have been conditioned -- 'I'll just buy a new one in two years!'
The Chinese audio business model is a great fit for this new mindset. We want the cheapest possible audio equipment with reasonable, just good enough, quality and performance. Why should I pay for some overbuilt Pass Labs or Boulder amp when I'm going to end up replacing in a couple of years anyways? Why do I need to worry about repairs if the technology will be obsolete in a few years anyways?
Now let's talk about the so-called 'data driven' mindset. If you read the forums, it becomes apparent fairly quickly that 'measurements' is the new game in town. In fact, it's the only game in town. Listening is optional! It's no surprise that the low-end of the Chinese audio industry has latched on to this as an opportunity to gain market share. We've moved from an artisan approach to one that's focused on numbers alone. People used to buy based on the designer's reputation (Nelson Pass, Bob Carver, etc.), now they base their decisions on charts and graphs. Again, listening is not required.
Unfortunately, the US and European audiophile industry will follow the same path as the manufacturing and electronics industries in the last 20+ years, i.e. fade into oblivion. They are burdened with comparatively high labor and R&D costs, IP regulations, and a capital market that rewards short-term profits. The Chinese manufacturers don't need to worry about any of the above.
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