Gustard R26 vs hi end streamer

I have the Gustard R26.

I have yet to see the firmware for the streamer portion for which it is supposed to be capable.

i have paired it with an innuous pulse mini.

I do like the r2r sound over a delta sigma type dac for almost everything I listen to.  But with the pulse mini, you can have multiple dacs, so I may either get my smsl 10 fixed or get another for electronica type music.  I did consider a couple other streamers, but they were limited to output to a single dac.  Just a choice..

Your assessment of the Marantz house sound echoes my own in that it’s full and rich but lacks upper octave detail and “air.”  IMHO it’s best to keep DAC and streamer separate as they’re both equally critical to get the best sound and combining them in one box invites both compromise and lack of future upgrade flexibility.  For your tastes I’d recommend looking at the Denafrips Pontus ll R2R DAC and the Innuos Pulse Mini streamer with their separate linear power supply (I think they may be about to introduce a new linear power supply for the Mini).  Hope this helps, and best of luck. 

Thank you, someone have compared Denafrips Pontus ll vs Gustard R26. ? I have read some reviews that suggest to choose Gustard R26.

@marco777 I’m actually comparing the Pontus II and Gustard R26 in my second system as we speak. I will share my opinion when I’ve put at least 100 hours on the R26 since I’ve had it for about ten days and still breaking it in. 

Thank you @arafiq  !! I wating for your response I'am very interesting about opinion.

I've now put almost 100 hours on the Gustard R26 so I feel it's fair to compare it to the Pontus II at this point. So here goes ...

First of all, the R26 is a really really good DAC. I've owned more expensive DACs in my main system and the R26 will not be embarrassed in the company of DACs up to $3000 or even more. I was surprised by the clarity, drive, pinpoint imaging, and a soundstage that is by far the widest I've heard for an R2R dac with the exception of Terminator 2 which I also owned.

The streamer function, IMO, is average at best. I tried to compare it with two streamers -- Bluesound Node 2i (in my second system) and Aavik S-280 (main system). As expected, the Aavik blew it out of the water ... as it should since it's almost 10 times more expensive. But compared to the Node, the sound quality is more or less equal. I did experience some hiccups/buffering issues on R26 when feeding hi-res files to it. I would say that the LAN-based streaming function is good for the price but I would use it with an external streamer if I'm looking for the next level up. However, it is perfectly acceptable if you compare it with streamers around the $500 or below mark.

So how does it compare to Pountus II? Well, let me start by saying that it equals the Pontus and even exceeds in some areas. I'm actually torn between the two choices. Alas, I can only keep one. So what do I like about the R26? ...

Did I say, I love the soundstage? It is wide and extends way past the speakers on both left and right. The Pontus also has a decent soundstage but not quite as wide. The imaging is very precise and presents the music in a very detailed manner. The R26, at least in my system, is more forward sounding and prioritizes details retrieval and dynamics at the expense of a more tonally rich and denser presentation. The leading edges are sharper but are a bit too etched and pronounced for my taste. The bass is punchier but can sound thin (as in not quite as full and juicy as Pontus) at times. I think if you like rock, EDM, pop music you will be quite pleased with the R26. For some reason, it sounds less than a typical R2R dac if you ask me. But this is not necessarily a negative in my book. The DAC reminded me of Chord Qutest which I also owned for a few months and could not agree with the presentation style. I feel the Gustard has similar presentation but with more density and smoothness. It keeps the goodness of Quest but gets rid of the negative qualities. It kinda falls somewhere between the Qutest and Pontus in this respect.

So what did I NOT like about the R26 when compared to the Pountus? As I mentioned before, I found the R26 to be rather thin sounding but only when compared to the Pontus. The Pountus still has more of the R2R goodness that I really like -- more dense, tonally rich, juicy, organic sound. It's more focused on soundstage depth than width. Unlike the R26, the Pontus does not highlight individual instruments but presents it in a more cohesive manner, as if all the instruments are woven onto the same fabric. It just has a more heavy and solid foundation. For jazz, vocals, and acoustic music, I still prefer the Pountus II.

Looks: Of course, this is very subjective, but I love the understated elegance and simplicity of the Pontus. The R26 looks very 80'ish ... sort of like a set top box or a sleek VCR. But it's neither here nor there.

Given that most of the music I listen to is jazz, classical, vocals, etc., I'm leaning towards keeping the Pontus II and returning the Gustard. But there are times when the Gustard sounds so good and involving that I start second guessing my decision. Some songs, especially with electronic instruments or synthesizers sound extremely good and engaging on R26. Honestly, it's a close call. If I had not heard the Pontus, I would have been very happy with the Gustard.

There is also the Gustard A26 which I thought was a better sounding DAC then the R26 yet still on the warm side.

Do you use Roon or what software are you using? That could have a bearing on the choice of streamers and streamer/dacs. 

@arafiq Given the sound characteristics the OP is looking for, your observations were exactly why I recommended the Pontus II.  Plus, add an Iris or a Hermes DDC to take advantage of the Pontus’ i2S input and there is significant further upside potential to be had.  Thanks for your helpful and insightful thoughts. 

On your gustard r26:

Did you compare the fast/medium/slow?

I find the slow well suited for tracks that are heavily acoustic with the fast being better suited to electronica and/or many instruments with fast changes.. ie metallica and Iron Maiden.

Slow seems to me to give a more full and rich sound, but also seems like it “can’t keep up” when the track has many things changing quickly, especially the triplet bass kicks.. gets “muddy”... if that makes sense.. I do not have the whole jargon thing down yet.. But changing those settings does really affect how different tracks sound.  I am not really into the “medium”.. it just seems to show the worst in different tracks..

Am with you on the streamer.  I tried streaming to it first with a node2i that I could NOT, even after multiple “factory resets”, get to use the wired ethernet… it wouldn’t “forget” the wireless and would only use that connection..  which is why I got the innuos pulse mini just for streaming and the node 2i is a bookend right now.

regards

matt

@soix I re-read your comment and your advice is spot on! My impressions are closely aligned with what you’re proposing. However, I want to emphasize the fact that I’m not declaring the Pontus II as the superior DAC over Gustard R26. They’re both superb and offer a lot of bang for the buck. In the end, it boils down to what one is looking for in terms of sound signature. I can see someone preferring the R26 over Pontus. For me, Pontus has the edge but I could just as well live happily with the R26 if I have to.

@nevada_matt I did, albeit briefly, try out the fast and medium filters but preferred the slow filter for the type of music I listen to. I would say over 70% of my listening was done in the slow filter mode. I did switch to fast or medium when listening to classic rock or EDM (mostly James Blake) and preferred medium. Didn’t like anything when using the fast filter so honestly I never gave it a fair shake.

I’m also very interested in your impressions regarding Innuos Pulse Mini. I owned the Innuos Zenith MK3 in my main system (now replaced with Aavik S-280) and have gained tremendous respect and admiration for Innuos, especially their Sense software. For now, I’m feeding the Pontus directly from my Roon server (SMG sonicTransporter5 + LPS) via USB. Since this is my second system, I’m not too keen on dropping a bundle on streamers. Need to decide between Holo Audio Red (like the fact that it outputs IS2) and Pulse Mini (Sense 2.0 is the main draw). My Node 2i is all packed up and ready to be sold.

@arafiq do you think the Pontus II is a little more open than Gustard R26 and also have a little more bass deep ?

@arafiq How would you compare the Zenith to the Aavik?  Reading between the lines it seems that you prefer the Aavik but the Zenith doesn’t fall very short, and I’m assuming the Aavik costs a lot more.  Appreciate your thoughts…again. 

i saw a nice used r26 locally for sale so i picked it up... for less than $1500 for r2r with built in network and wifi renderer, roon ready, mqa, external clock input, i2s (but with another incompatible pin set),  etc etc ... figured it would be fun to try it, have a listen, and see if the youtube talking heads have yet again found the newest, biggest value buy of the year in nice chi-fi digital gear...

...first reactions... it is heavy, nice serious power supply section inside... and then, the stupid menu display has ridiculous micro font... where are my reading glasses???!!! 🙄😵

@marco777 What do you mean by a little more open? If you mean more air and effortlessness, than I think the Gustard has a bit more air but the Pontus sounds a bit more relaxed to me. Not sure if this answers your question. Bass on R26 is tighter and punchier, but somehow I still prefer the Pontus even in this respect. It's just more full sounding. BTW, I've packed up the Gustard and sending back this weekend.

@soix Yes, I prefer the Aavik but to be honest I would be hard pressed to justify the extra cost. I hate to use the term, but the Aavik S-280 is a bit more 'analog' sounding. It's more relaxed and brings out the nuance in the music a bit better. Innuos has better clarity and definition but still has a hint of digital artifacts which I never knew existed until I heard the Aavik. The differences are noticeable but subtle. I do miss Sense 2.0 though ... definitely better sound quality than Roon.

@jjss49 Did you happen to see the Eversolo dac+streamer combo review by Steve Huff? Yes, I know we're talking about Steve Huff, so the usual caveats, grain of salt, etc. apply as always :)

But still looks to be fantastic value for what you pay for.

Hi arafiq,

I do not use roon. An expense I don’t need.

Inuos pulse mini is fed from ethernet, with the long 25 ft run between router and mini converter to fiber, then back to ethernet.  I wanted strictly a streamer, it can send to many dacs. In the sense app, just choose setting standalone and choose mini out to another dac.. make sure the dac, if using as preamp, is turned down, before connecting.  On pulse mini, choose the dac you want to be playing, must set mini’s volume out to max, and enjoy (i have two dacs I switched between going into preamp..). I have an smsl su-10 for the electronica stuff.. for me some type of music sounds “better” on a delta sigma, while almost all of what I listen to sounds better on r2r.  By the way, you can really hear the difference twixt fast and slow if playing iron maiden or metallica at… unhealthy levels   ;-p   The dac included with the mini will be ok if I ever have an issue with the gustard, so it is a “decent” back up.

The only other “streamer” I’ve ever had was a bluesound node 2i and there is just no comparison there.

I am still exploring all the features of the mini though.  

but, I can for sure say that I am happy with the pulse mini and it doing what I wanted it to do… hardwired network streaming…. nothing else.

And I could not care less what places like asr say, I can hear the difference and I know what is pleasing to me.

Soix is correct (as usual), based on your preference for a warner, analog presentation; I'd highly recommend the Pontus II 12th anniversary R2R DAC. I have had the Pontus II (non 12th anniversary) in my system for a couple of years, and I am in no hurry to upgrade it.....the sound is sublime. Great punch and attack, beautiful vocals, wide and high soundstage (though not as deep), instrument clarity and separation, and not at all harsh or fatiguing. But there are other DACs that are more detailed on top, if that is your thing.

If you then want to take things to another level, you could always add the Denafrips Iris DDC between your streamer and Pontus II with an I2S cable.

Best of luck to you

@arafiq 

Did you do the latest update on your Pontus ll?

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.

@curiousjim I have not updated my Pontus yet. I’m a little apprehensive after reading the experiences of some people as reported on the other thread here. Looks like some people disliked it so much that they reverted to the original state.

It sounds so damn good right now that I keep thinking why fix it if it ain’t broke. I’ll probably wait till the dust settles a bit.

The Gustard is a very detailed dac for a R2R I thought it should be much warmer ,natural sounding it was more neutral sounding then expected , the streamer side 

these guys suck at answering emails and slow on needed streamer updates 

the streamer side degraded the dacs performance a bit ,better to use the dacs features imo, my wife had me sell it,the latest blue sound node has a better streamer  just buy for the streamer ,dac not too good.

I have not listened to the lineup being discussed, but based on the OP desire for 'relaxed, warm' suggest staying with your R2R options. The X26 mentioned is likely to be more detailed and brighter than my Gustard A26. I really do like my A26, but would not describe it as warm and relaxed.

Keeping the streamer separate from the DAC is good (IMO), which appears to be your intention. I.e. If you first upgrade your DAC, you should not sell your NA8005, regardless of whether or not the new DAC has streaming capability.

I already had separate Antipodes server/streamer/PS, which is a big step up from the streamer sections of A26 / R26. Perhaps they are another one to consider in your next round of upgraditis. (Antipodes also have awesome backup support service. I can't comment on Gustard backup, as I have not yet needed any).

@arafiq  I read your review comparing the R26 with the Pontus II. I’m in a similar situation now, more than a year later, and hope you could clarify a few points to help me make an informed decision.

(1) Does the Pontus II you had back then have the original firmware (prior to V1.4)?  

(2) Have you ever updated to V1.4 and, if so, how were the changes in sound signature?

(3) Have you ever tried DDC with Pontus II and, if so, how were the changes in sound signature?

(4) I mainly listening to Jazz and classical music.  How Pontus II handles Complex Instrumentation in Classical Music.  Does the Pontus II perform well with orchestral complexity, capture subtle dynamics and maintain coherence in dense arrangements?  Having a R2R architecture, does the Pontus II offer a natural timbre, making strings and woodwinds feel lifelike, and manage to retain warmth and clarity even in highly intricate compositions?

Appreciated for your feedback.

Hi @lanx0003 Just a few caveats before I respond ... while I kept the Pontus much longer, I only had the R26 for less than a month since I returned it to Amazon during the trial period. It’s quite likely that my perception was biased since I had the Pontus for a longer duration. With that out of the way ...

As far as I remember, my Pontus had the original firmware. I had a chance to upgrade but I heard differing opinions, some negative, so decided not to roll the dice. My thinking was why fix something that ain’t broken :)

Never tried the DDC. In hindsight, I should have done that before selling the Pontus. But based on impressions by a few friends who also own a Pontus, the difference in SQ is not subtle at all. They all feel it was a worthwhile investment. I only sold the Pontus because I dismantled and sold my office system to fund the main system. Otherwise, I had no intentions of selling it.

Overall, I would say the Pontus was sorta like the goldilocks of DACs in its respective price category. The sound was very balanced with a hint of warmth. It wasn’t trying to be the most detailed and high resolution DAC. Instead the emphasis was more at a macro level with musicality as the primary goal. I thought it offered a natural timbre and most instruments sounded pretty good. No, it’s not as good as other high priced DACs, but you will be hard pressed to beat the Pontus within it’s price category.

The R26 on the other hand was more focused on micro level nuances, had a wider soundstage (though not necessarily deeper), and had a more ’hifi’ sound if you know what I mean. In the end, I preferred the warm, slightly lush and organic presentation of the Pontus. But it wasn’t like I could not live with the Gustard. They both offer above average value, but perhaps cater to slightly different sound parameters,

Hope this helps.

@arafiq 

I appreciate your insight. However, I later realized that the Pontus' NOS mode isn't truly NOS until the 15th version. Even the 12th version is an emulation (though close). I’ve decided to pause and dive deeper into this technical aspect before fully committing to an R2R DAC. Regarding the DDC, I’m inclined to skip it and, if needed, consider a higher-end model like the Venus instead. I recall Tarun mentioning that combining the Pontus II with the Iris could offer a Venus-like sound. As I get older, I prefer to have fewer components on the rack.

The R26's sound characteristics continue to improve over time. The initially weaker bass that some people critique has become weightier. I value controlled, nimble bass over quantity, but it still needs to have a weighty initial attack. The R26 is quite neutral, yet not as natural-sounding as I’d like. We'll see.

I also ordered Gustard R26. I will probably get in next week.

I had Chord Qutest for 5 years and now I have an SMSL DO300EX (AK4499 chip). I also have an old Cary cd-303/100 CD player on a Burr-Brown PCM1704u chip. 

I mostly listen to jazz and classical music.

I like my super affordable SMSL DO300EX more than Qutest. It handles better symphonic music with more details, separation and less congestion. It also sounds less sterile.

But it doesn't have the dynamics, energetics, separation and big soundstage of a Cary CD player. It plays music without emotions. Despite both Qutest and SMSL outperforming Cary in terms of details, focus and natural tone of instruments and vocals.

So, I hope Gustard r26 gives me the best of both worlds.

I read here on this forum that r2r dacs need a very long break in.

But my experience shows that it is true for sigma delta dacs too.

Qutest was playing 200 hours but the sound was improved after it was plugged in AC during 3 weeks. The same story with SMSL DAC it started sound good after 3 weeks plugged in plus more than 200 hours playing music. 

I got my Gustard R26 today.

I connected it to my Shanling ET3 transport by USB and Coaxial cables. When selecting USB input it works, but when I select Coaxial input I can hear music playing for a second and after it is silent. But when I unplug USB coaxial input is playing.

Is it any solution to use a number of cables plugged in and switch inputs with Gustard R26?

You should be able to switch inputs on the Gustard. I did it with my cd player and streamer. 

Are you sure that the Shanling will output through USB and coaxial at the same time?  Maybe try unplugging the USB cable from Shanling and see if coaxial works. I'm guessing, but it's worth a shot 

Hi @sls883

Yes, coaxial works when I unplug USB.

The problem is only when both cables are plugged.

I need both these cables because PCM sound better with Coaxial cable, but I need USB cable for playing DSD files.

@alexberger I Googled the Shanling manual and it says "USB is set as priority for the system.  if you want to use a different digital output, please make sure USB Audio Output is not connected".

I2s would probably work, but you'd have to figure out the pinout connection.  I use a Gustard U18 ddc which converts USB to a Gustard type I2s output. 

The U18 wouldn't work in your case because you'd still be using the USB output. 

Hi @sls883 ,

So far I found a solution to plug and unplug USB cable into ET3 (I have easy access to do it). It is not a big problem for me because I listen to PCM (CDs and files) 95% of the time.

In one month I will receive my old SMSL do300ex (AK4499) DAC from maintenance. It will be my DAC dedicated to DSD.

I had the Gustard R26. 

It sounded great but not better than the Dac Streamer in the Eversolo A8. Sold my R26 and haven't looked back.

I think, altogether, I have put more than 100 hours on the R26. Today, I did a side-by-side listening test using the MXN10 as both a streamer and a DAC. With my Cambridge Azur 851A integrated amplifier, I could switch back and forth between the R26 and the MXN10’s internal DAC, allowing me to hear the differences almost instantaneously. I needed to do a bit of volume matching (+/- 3dB). With MXN10 as the streamer (Wharfdale Linton & Burchardt S400 mkII), both have quiet background, sound transparent, good SS, decent bass BUT R26 does not outperform my $400 MXN10’s DAC.

BTW, the R26’s streamer through the mConnect renderer sounds awful—much worse than the MXN10 or iFi ZS, those low-end streamers (price-wise). Well, time to move on. Following the highly raved Eversolo A6, this is the second higher-end streamer/DAC that has disappointed me.

Hi @lanx0003 ,

For any DAC I had 100hour of break-in - it is nothing!

For example I run a new Chord Qutest around 200 hours and was sure it plays on 90% of it potential. Then I didn’t listen to it for 2 weeks. But is was plugged in to AC without playing music. When I listened to it again I was shocked how the sound of the DAC was improved.

To make any decision the DAC shod be plugged in AC for 3 weeks + 200-300 hours of playing music.

The sound quality of my R26 with my Innuos streamer was excellent.

I also tried the renderer/streamer in the R26 with Audivarna software. The sound quality was quite good, but I had issues with Audivarna. 

I prefer my CCA via optical to the sound of the R26 internal steamer for Roon.  I do love the R26 sound (have 2 of em), and I utilize the i2s input in my desktop system via ddc with good results.

As I mentioned earlier, the bass improves, which is the first noticeable change within the first week. The piano notes gradually settle as well, but the timbre and overtones of the violin sound unnatural and somewhat raspy. Sibilance isn’t well-controlled either and I'm not sure if it could be further tamed (feedback please). I have the time and patience, but I don’t want to wait 200–300 hours only to find that the tone is still unnatural, as some have reported. That’s quite a lot of burn-in time for this R2R DAC.

And you're certain that the sounds that you hear are coming from the R-26 and neither the Cambridge integrated or Cambridge streamer?  I've not read any reviews that indicate the issues that you've had.  

DACs use electrolytic capacitors in power supply that need a very long burn in. Amplifiers need less time. In my experience with Chord and SMSL DACs it was 3 weeks plugged in AC. And height frequencies finally improved at the end of this period.  

Both Cambridge int amp and streamer are endorsed by Stereophile so there is no need for concern.  I stand by my previous statement, i.e., at this point, R26 sounds good but performs at most as well as MXN10 internal DAC.  Both are neutral but I expect the R26, with its r2r topology, to sweeten / smooth the midrange / treble better than the ESS-based delta sigma DAC in MXN10 but it doesn't.

Give Maria Duenas's II. Larghetto Beethoven Violin Concerto in D major, Op. 61, in her 'Beethoven and Beyond' album a listen (24/96 in Qobus) and let me know how you feel about the violin timbre. 

The R26 sounds best when using I2s or USB inputs, in my opinion.  The Cambridge only has coaxial and optical outputs if I'm not mistaken. 

I've streamed with the renderer in the R26 using Audirvana software. I certainly wouldn't call it awful. 

I tried Ifi ZS which has isolated asynchronous usb with R26 already and it does not resolve the issue.  MXN10 sounds better (than Ifi) so I stay with it.  

Maybe Audirvana sounds better than MConnect, but I doubt it can make that big of a difference. The reason I call it awful (sorry for the strong wording; how about "at best average" used by the other gentelman here) is that it costs over $1k more yet sounds worse than the MXN10, iFi Zen Stream, and Wiim. Both my primary (humble) and secondary (still humble) systems can easily reveal the sound quality disparity. 

Wharfdale Linton & Burchardt S400 mkII), both have quiet background, sound transparent, good SS, decent bass BUT R26 does not outperform my $400 MXN10’s DAC.

a) Sell Linton, not resolving enough...Move up to the Elysian

b) Treat your room, increase room's resolution 

c) Sell Gustard with some mustard. 

d) Get the new Schiit Gungnir 2 dac, all R2R goodness made in America.

e) Make things liquid by getting the Schiit Saga 2 Class A preamp.

f) Bring ultimate glory by getiing 2 Schiit Tyr Class A-ish continuity monoblock amps.

g) Welcome to the world of American Schiit..the Schiitiest world to be in....Hold hands with the other Schiits as we walk into the sunset together.

My son is using my R26 with a Cambridge CXA-60 integrated amp (also mine, lol).  He's using a Bluesound Node for a streamer.  It sounds really good, but he's got the system crammed into a small bedroom (less than ideal).  Speakers are Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 which are pretty nice for the money.  He has a huge cabinet between them and the speakers can't be pulled out into the room.  I'd like to hear the system in a larger room.

Picked up a used R26 (recommended by fellow Agon’r) last year ($1100) for my second system to replace a Black Ice Glass DSD Dac and Ifi Zen Stream. Simplified and vastly Improved functionality over the temperamental  Zen Stream.   Noticably improved sound quality  is excellent and I am very happy and I have no issues with it’s streamer.  I do notice it isn’t quite as warm and full sounding when comparing it to my Mojo Mystique Evo Dac / Bricasti M5 on my main system.  But it definitely holds it own and I am very happy with the way it draws me into the music just in a different way.  My simple second system is Raven Blackhawk Integrated Amp, Gustard R26, Stack Audio Smooth Lan, optical FMC filtering, Sonictransporter Roon Core, Roon, Fritz Monitors.

@deep_333 

I am not sure if you actually own Linton or had given it a fair trial.  The trerrific soundstage, flat response (see below) and nimble bass are the three main reasons I kept them for a good two years and might be many more years to come.  Look at the flat in-room response from Erin's measurements.  Lack of details, might be, but that is not the trait I had concern with. 

The concern I am having is related to the elevated treble beyond 10khz.  The tactic is to mitigate it is to toe them out a bit but that does not fully address the issue.  That is why I am looking for a DAC that could do the trick, starting with r2r DAC.  I acquired Saga 2 when it was announced and like it.  But the Cambridge Azur 851A's preamp could sweeten the sound as good as Saga 2 if not better.  I had tried AKM chips-based DAC but sound is a bit too warm for me.

I will give R26 one more week and, if not working, move onto the next which might be Qutest, gumby (as you have suggested) / yggi or hybrid or pure tube DAC like Black-Ice.

I could eq the treble region too but not really like what wiim pro + sounds in comparison (w/ MXN10).  Additionally, eq sound does not really sweeten / liquify the sound I found.

I don't know what your budget is, but I can recommend the Gustard X-30 dac.  It's pretty awesome.  I bought mine direct from Aoshida for $2,700 shipped.  They have a decent return policy.  If you return it, you would pay shipping to North Carolina and around $135 in PayPal fees. 

I'm using it with my Innuos Zen Mk3 streamer.

There are several positive review videos on the X-30.