Ground loop hum

Thank you all. This vm problem is resolved no need for further responses. 

Check your cartridge/headshell leads

Another victory for Audiophiles!

I guess I should post it. Soon I will. It all fits in a front hall closet with records, except the speakers

Congratulations! Glad to hear you found it. 

This is one of the great reasons to post your system under virtual systems. I bet this would have been recommended very quickly if someone had seen photos of your system. Words unfortunately only identify the things you focus on... while a photo will show things you may not have thought of. 

@kavakat1 , Great!

Best regards,

Jim

Jea48

you hit the nail on the head.  Problem resolved with my moving the phono preamp away from the Rogue CB preamp. I had it sitting on top of the Rogue.  You can hear it getting  softer and louder as you move them farther apart and the closer together again.  Thank you all for your insights and thoughts about this problem. As in real estate, location, location, location.  My best to you all. Jerry(kavakat1) 

Are you using or have you tried balanced (XLR) interconnects?

They worked for me when I had an unwanted hum. I never took the time 

to seriously diagnose the cause (lack of patience), I took the advice of Paul

McGowan from PS Audio. 

@jetter +1

You beat me to the punch, before I posted my above post.

If so, insert more insulated interconnects to test.

I think you mean shielded. The TT phono cables to the phono preamp should definitely be shielded phono designed cables. Jmho...

@kavakat1 said:

Something to report. I unplug my phonograph power plug and the hum is still there. What’s that mean. Will move phono to line 3 to see. It’s presently on line 2 and cd is on line 3. Too much fun. 

Like I said earlier in the thread, I don’t believe your problem is a ground loop. 

I assume when playing the CDP, there is not any  "60hz noise".   Correct?

You never answered if the tonearm is grounded to the phono preamp ground terminal screw. If not and floating it will act like an antenna.

What better receiver for the noise than the phono cartridge. Crap will ride along with the analog signal to the Rogue preamp and right out to the speakers connected to the power amp.

(The ground terminal on the phono preamp is connected to the signal ground of the preamp.The tonearm needs to be connected there.)

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@jetter said:

The only time I had a hum that sounded like a ground loop from my turntable was when I was using a set of interconnects that were not properly insulated for turntable use.  Morrow literature made it clear to use their phono specific interconnects for turntable use but I thought I would try my non-phono interconnects anyway and hence the hum.  I then installed "regular" insulated interconnects, and the problem vanished.

Perhaps your new preamp is more sensitive to this.

Try a different set of interconnects.

I think the 60Hz noise is airborne EMI entering  through the phono front end system somewhere. 

How close is the TT, phono cables, and phono preamp from the Rogue preamp? Doesn’t matter what the position of the NAD was. Different equipment. For a test, try separating the TT, phono cables, and phono preamp further away from the Rogue preamp.

@kavakat1 

Somehow you have ignored my post above which I believe is your problem.

I could be mistaken, but I think that your problem is that the interconnects between the turntable and phono stage and/or the interconnects between the phono stage and preamp are picking up interference.

If so, insert more insulated interconnects to test.

I’m late here.  First try moving everything to the same outlet.  This will ensure your "ground loop" isn’t really imbalanced voltages causing imbalanced center tapped ground differences. 

Unplug anything metallic besides your audio.  Ethernet is OK, but coax is not, and USB is not. 

Something to report. I unplug my phonograph power plug and the hum is still there. What’s that mean. Will move phono to line 3 to see. It’s presently on line 2 and cd is on line 3. Too much fun. 

Same cart as with the NAD AMP

Using MC cartridge

@jea48  You clearly understand what causes hum, now its a matter of where and how. You’re doing all the right things. That the hum is controlled by the volume control and only on the phono input narrows it down a lot.

@kavakat1 One more variable though, what kind of cartridge is being used? 

just tried grounding phono preamp to rogue preamp’s cabinet. No luck.

I assume the TT tone arm is grounded to the phono preamp ground terminal.

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So a ground loop hum must be heard no matter which source is playing thru the preamp? Is that correct?

The 60HZ ground loop 60Hz current is carried through the ICs, through the signal grounds of the equipment. A difference of potential, voltage, must exist between at least two points for current to travel in a closed circuit. Therein ground loop.

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Did you try another Line level input on the Rogue preamp?

Does the TT use a 120V 3 wire grounding type cord and plug? If so, unplug the cord and plug from the wall outlet. Check for hum.

Does the hum sound like this?  60HZ hum . 

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The 60hz noise goes up and down with volume knob.

Does it sound like this?  60HZ buzz

Musical Surroundings Phonominal II+ phono preamp.

Lots of slide switches on the back of the unit. Are they set set correctly? Is the Rogue preamp Line level input specs the same as the NAD. Would the phono preamp switches need to be set differently? Is the gain output signal voltage to high for the Rogue preaamp’s Line level inputs? Settings ok for the NAD...

I assume the power supply for the phono preamp is a two blade wall wart or similar. Wall outlet equipment ground is not used.

If unplugging the TT power cord from the wall outlet did not stop the hum. For a test, eliminate the phono preamp and plug the TT RCA ICs directly into the Rogue preamp Line level inputs. Check for the  "60hz noise".   

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Where is the phono preamp located, distance from, the Rogue preamp and the Aesthetix Atlas power amp? Try moving it, increasing the distance from them. 

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Everything is plugged into one outlet via a surge-x surge protector

Do you have parts of your system plugged into a different duplex receptacle from the rest? That can create a ground loop. Plug everything into one (you'll have to use a power conditioner or power strips). If it goes away... that the problem. I had one long ago. I put in two direct lines and obviously that fixed it. 

Yoyoyaya

just tried grounding phono preamp to rogue preamp’s cabinet. No luck.  The 60hz noise goes up and down with volume knob.  Can hardly hear it at low levels.  All are plugged int a surge-X surge protector.  But once again, had no problem with former NAD amp.  Appreciate your suggestions. 

Yoyoyaya please see my last.   The phono pre is not grounded. I’ll try that.  Thanks!!

So a ground loop hum must be heard no matter which source is playing thru the preamp? Is that correct? I have a  Musical Surroundings Phonominal II+  phono preamp. 

@OP As the RP-7 is a line level preamp - what are you using as a phono stage and how are you grounding that?

Plug everything into just 1 outlet that is on 1 circuit, if there is still a hum something may be loose somewhere 

@jetter said:

The only time I had a hum that sounded like a ground loop from my turntable was when I was using a set of interconnects that were not properly insulated for turntable use.  Morrow literature made it clear to use their phono specific interconnects for turntable use but I thought I would try my non-phono interconnects anyway and hence the hum.  I then installed "regular" insulated interconnects, and the problem vanished

+1 

That would explain why when the Rogue preamp was set to another input there is no hum. Phono ICs are not shielded and are picking up EMI from a near by non shielded power cord or some other EMI producing AC source.

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@kavakat1 said:

Only Jim’s when preamp is set to the turntable.  O other inputs hum. 

I don't think your problem is caused by ground loop. If a ground loop, It should hum even when the preamp is switched to another source input if the TT is connected to the preamp.

Does the hum sound like this. 60HZ hum 

Does the Rogue preamp have a built-in phono preamp? 

What model Technics turntable do you have?

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The only time I had a hum that sounded like a ground loop from my turntable was when I was using a set of interconnects that were not properly insulated for turntable use.  Morrow literature made it clear to use their phono specific interconnects for turntable use but I thought I would try my non-phono interconnects anyway and hence the hum.  I then installed "regular" insulated interconnects, and the problem vanished.

Perhaps your new preamp is more sensitive to this.

Try a different set of interconnects. 

Only hums. Not Jim’s 

Only Jim’s when preamp is set to the turntable.  O other inputs hum. 

@kavakat1 

A ground loop hum means there is a difference of potential, voltage, between  two AC ground points. Result 60Hz current traveling in the ground loop circuit. Result 60Hz hum.

How did you verify it was the TT causing the ground loop? Disconnect the TT ICs from the  Rogue preamp and the hum stopped? 

Mike

see where?? Nothing attached. 

No cable box. I dont think it’s the room as there was no hum when I had my NAD amp running the system. Only started w the new equipment. I’ll try the cheater. 

Did you try a 3 prong to 2 prong cheater to lift any grounds?  Also if you have a cable box in that system/ room unplug it and the coax to it while troubleshooting