Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?

@svenjosh not surprised the Odin 2 is better than the Omega. Isn’t it an order of magnitude more expensive than the Shunyata, if I’m not mistaken? I think anything from the Odin 2 loom is going to be near “the best”.  Thanks for sharing your findings.

I once tested a Valhalla 2 USB and found it was definitely better than my Audioquest Diamond. But the difference to me was small and maybe worth half the asking price, and I ultimately felt I enjoyed the sound from the far less expensive Diamond just as much.

Very interested to see if you think the lower cost Sablon beats the Omega though, as a few have found this to be the case. I noticed there is a used 1m Sablon currently for sale. However after my experience finding a 2m Valhalla 2 USB cable sounding far, far better than a 1m equivalent, I started heeding Nordost’s guidance for minimum cable lengths. They say digital cables should be a minimum of 1.5m. I might have sprung for the used Sablon if it was 1.5m.

@svenjosh what kind of DAC do you have? I've tried Shunyata, Audience, Transparent XLR and can't tell any difference fr Mogami. I have Weiss 501 DAC and SabrinaX.

@nadimjaber the dealer told me mu1 is best w aes.

Just ordered mu1 also. Will be here first week of May hopefully. The dealer also shared one of his clients decided to keep MU1. He had N20. Not sure if he's on here.

Thank you for starting this thread @nyev 

 

quattr0,

If your dealer is in Dallas, then, yes, that would be me. I took the MU1 out of my system and put the N20 back in. Love the N20 but the Grimm just works so much better with my system so I had to put it back in and buy it. The dealer was gracious enough to let me purchase the demo unit.

@nyev the OP, 

Did you try the SR purple fuse in your Innuos Zenith Mk 3?  I say try, of course because there is zero risk.  It can be returned.

I’m very interested to hear your thoughts on it, if you try one.

At the risk of overstating the matter, I pretty much think you’ve not really heard what the Zenith can do until you have put a purple fuse in.  For context, I added the purple fuse a couple of months after adding an ENO filter and EE 8switch with a Supracat ethernet connecting the two.  So, yes, I had some enhancements.  The fuse was and still is difficult to believe….for what it did.  To avoid…”jaw dropping” I’ll say that it will make you shake your head in incredulity.

Kidding aside, it is the biggest no-brainer among some very nice, high-value tweaks I’ve been lucky enough to discover.

And just to disclose the latest, I moved to the NA Muon filter and a NA ethernet cable to replace the Supacat 8.

Plan to add another purple or SR Master somewhere else in the system.

So I switched back over to Innuos (Zenith Mk3 + PhoenixUSB + PhoenixNET) from my MU1, yes three boxes instead of one, and have a few new insights after a day of listening, that maybe change some of my initial findings. Previously I had called the Innuos setup more open sounding, and I had said the MU1 has far more detail, among other findings as well.

These two particular findings remain valid, but I discovered the underlying reasons for them. With my Innuos setup there is a dip in the lower midrange frequencies that has now become obvious. This actually creates a sense of relaxed ease to the Innuos sound, and makes the sound seem to be more open as the upper mids and higher frequencies are more forward as a result. It also makes the lower frequencies seem to be fuller sounding as those frequencies also stand out more. While this effect creates a relaxed sound that is easy to listen to, because the lower mid frequencies are softer, these pleasing attributes come at the expense of softening the detail in this particular lower-mid frequency band. This is why I noted that electric (and other) guitars stand out more with the MU1.

The MU1 may be a hair more “precise” when it comes to eliminating any sort of bloom, and adding more texture, but my Innuos setup is surprisingly not that far off.

The biggest distinction other than the tonal balance difference I noted is just how driving and propulsive the MU1 is vs the Innuos setup which is gentle and laid back in comparison (but highly precise). I notice this effect most on how energetic the MU1 presents kick-drums and bass with a propulsive drive, vs the Innuos presentation where these elements are presented in a more gentle, relaxed manner while still being refined and precise.

Ultimately I’m still favouring the MU1, with its higher energy delivery with mostly equal performance or a hair better (with sonic presentation differences however) in a single box. Again this is prior to the fuse tweak for Innuos and prior to changing out my cables which I’m still waiting on!

 

 

@nyev You are correct the odin2 retails around 12k versus the Shunyata Omega at 4.5k, but the slight increase in the air and details make a difference for me and it is addictive. I wish I did not hear any difference, would have been better for my wallet. 
 

I am still not yet decided, waiting to try the Sablon this weekend and Jorma next week. 

@quattr0 I have Holo May currently as my Dac. I was talking about AES cable not XLR. With Mogami vs Shunyata/Nordost the difference is the bass. There is just more texture, nuance and solidity, easily apparent, no need to go back and forth. 
 

 To make it easier try any good Cello recording, the inner detail, timbre and tone is easy to appreciate. I highly recommend hi-res recoding of Bach suites for solo cello, Janos Starker. It achieves a rare feat of amazing recording (live sounding) with outstanding performance. 

“waiting to try the Sablon this weekend and Jorma next week”

@svenjosh how are you able to trial those three excellent cables in such short order? Mark at Sablon told me he couldn’t do a demo or return privileges at least with the 1.5m AES cable I had required, and I don’t believe his stuff is carried in shops. For the Jorma, where are you getting that cable from? The Cable Co?

Really looking forward to hearing the results of your testing, that is a dream selection to demo! That said I think you are tainted by starting with Odin 2 - would have been best to end with that one! :) I would put the Odin 2 in the category of “don’t listen because I won’t be happy with anything else after hearing it.” Please no more talk of “addictive air and transparency..”!!!! ;)

@nyev  Do you have any hypotheses about why you are hearing a lower midrange dip in the frequency response of your Innuos server/streamer? Is this a dip in a measured frequency response curve or a perceived dip based on your experience with your room and other equipment? Are there any room or gear interactions that could account for it? I do not hear a midrange dip with my Innuos Zen Mk3, and I have not heard that characteristic described by other Innuos users.

@sdl4, the lower midrange dip in my Innuos gear is based purely on my subjective comparison listening to the Grimm MU1 which I also have on hand. With the MU1, sounds in this band (like guitars) are far more forward and as a result the related details are more audible than with Innuos. And with Innuos bass, upper mid and higher frequencies are more forward and pronounced. I’ve owned my Innuos gear since 2019 and had not noted this dip, until directly contrasting with the Grimm MU1 which is, at least according to pro reviewers (Christiaan at HiFi Advice for example) for what it’s worth, highly neutral. Of note Stereophile’s review of the Innuos Statement noted that it was warm. I’m curious if this is related to then frequency response profile that I perceived (to be clear my Innuos gear is not the Statement, but the combination of the Zenith Mk 2, PhoenixUSB and PhoenixNET. To be very clear, I don’t consider this to be a drawback of Innuos. In fact it’s an extremely pleasant effect (at the cost of making some of the midrange detail less audible).

@nyev I have Nordost Odin2 for the rest of my system so easy to borrow from my dealer. I am lucky that I live an hour away from The Cable company. You are right, Mark sent me a 1m AES but it should give me an idea. Moreover my Grimm Mu1 and DAC are in seperate racks so I am hoping the interference is minimal with 1m cable. 

@nyev ​​​​@sdl4 @svenjosh good morning!

The dip  or less full frequencies is an interesting thing. A few years ago, after settling on Audience AU24sx and assembling a full loom, I upgraded my speakers. My amazing dealer delivered and set up the YG Haileys and they sounded fantastic..  They were demo’s so already broken in.  I had selected the AU24’s because of the clear airy highs.  As I was playing my favorite tracks, my dealer stopped me after Genesis ‘Fly on a Windshield’ from Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. He changed out my speaker cables only with K-S Elation and we replayed the track.  Wow. The bass coming in after the quiet hit me in the chest.  And the top end was just as clear.  This was ‘tonal balance’. Often missing low mids or upper bass lend one to hearing the highs better.  I now have all Realization or Elation.  Full natural sound.  I expect any part of the chain can be responsible for this, but cables seem to be obvious with a fleshed out system.  So, were there any cabling differences between the Grimm and Zenith set ups ??

@fastfreight : every single YG speakers owner I know, personally or virtually online, also has Kubala Sosna cables. What a coincidence! Or is it a coincidence? I have no idea.

Hello @thyname ,  there may be some designed coincidence if GTT is your dealer or distributor.  Bill Parish of GTT is a good friend of Joe Kubala, and also a big YG dealer.  Both have been to my home for delivery and set up (and checking out my train layout).  Bill always features K-S cables at his studio or at shows.  Interesting this year is that GTT is featuring Goya Speakers at Axpona with Audionet Stern and Heisenbergs, MM Tambaqui, Grimm mu1, and Kubala Sosna cables.

maybe soon there will be a coincidence with Giya loudspeakers and K-S cables?🧐. 

@nyev  Thanks for the additional comments on the perceived midrange dip with your Innuos setup. When I think of what makes a system sound warm, I think particularly about some emphasis in how it is handling upper bass and lower mids. So if an Innuos server/streamer (like the Statement) is described as warm by a reviewer, then I don't immediately think of a dip in the lower mids. Also, when you describe your Innuos gear as sounding pleasantly smooth, I think of a lack of emphasis in the upper mids or highs to the point where brightness or harshness is de-emphasized. Associated with this smoothness may be some deemphasis of higher frequency detail, including the harmonics of instruments (like guitar) that produce their fundamental tones in the upper bass and lower mids. Having said this, I wouldn't be at all surprised if both the MU1 and the Innuos gear have a fairly flat frequency response overall, even though they don't sound exactly the same in tonal balance and soundstaging.

And speaking of tonal balance, @fastfreight makes a good point about how cables can affect the sound of any of the gear we're discussing here. There is certainly the obvious difference that Innuos uses USB to connect to a DAC, while the MU1 uses a different DAC input and a different type of cable. In my own system, I use primarily Cardas cables, which are known to support a full and rich midrange, so my system may sound a little different than yours even when I'm using much the same Innuos gear. 

 

@fastfreight , @sdl4 there is a cable difference for sure, which I have thought about. I am temporarily using a very low end Cardas AES cable on the MU1 (the old green Cardas AES cable, not the current one. With my Innuos setup I have Audioquest Diamond USB cables. I did try swapping out the Diamond USB cables with generic USB cables and I still noticed the same tonal differences between Innuos and the MU1 (but the Innuos sound became inferior in other ways).

@sdl4 I agree it’s likely that both have fairly neutral measured frequency responses. Our ears are very sensitive to tiny changes in tonal balance which has a massive impact on how we perceive a piece of equipment. Maybe “smooth” is not as good as “relaxed” to describe what I perceive with Innuos vs the MU1. Because it’s all relative, the bass, upper mids and high frequencies “pop out” in a very pleasing way with Innuos, and the upper end detail is so easy to hear. Again, and the expense of the “meatier” tones of the midrange which are not as easy to hear with detail. Because of this, I think that things like electric guitars sound smoother with less texture and detail in the body of the tone. Of note this difference in tonal balance is the most profound of the differences I hear between Innuos and Grimm. The next biggest difference is the more gentle delivery of Innuos vs the more propulsive and energetic presentation of the MU1.  And lastly the smallest difference I hear is the bit of added texture, focus and detail that the MU1 offers over my Innuos setup.  But these last differences are far smaller than I originally had thought as I was getting them conflated with the tonal balance differences at first.

@lalitk , cool you met Eelco! Since he’s referenced this thread to me I would have asked him if sales of MU1’s are up because of it, just out of curiosity! You should also have asked him about the details of the next firmware release - I think you in particular would be very interested in the major new features than are coming. Eelco asked me not to share these details online since it’s still possible these features may have issues in testing.

 

“I have Nordost Odin2 for the rest of my system”

@svenjosh in that case I’m pretty sure I know which AES cable will win your shootout :)

Nevertheless, let us know how your testing with the Sablon and Jorma go!

The 1.5m minimum for digital cables is supposedly required to account for something to do with the synchronization between source and destination.  At least with USB cables, if you look it up you’ll find people talk about “reflections”.  I’ve not attempted to understand it; I’ve just noted the really big improvement when you go from a 1m USB to 1.5m or 2m.  Mark at Sablon told me he had heard this too.

@rc22 +1

At the risk of overstating the matter, I pretty much think you’ve not really heard what the Zenith can do until you have put a the Purple fuse in.  For context, I added the purple fuse a couple of months after adding an ENO filter and EE 8switch with a Supracat ethernet connecting the two.

Your setup is very similar to what mine used to be a few months ago. I was using Supra8, Eno (still have it) in conjunction with Zenith MK3 and purple fuse. I tried the 8switch but didn't notice any improvement so ended up returning it. I think it's downright criminal to own an Innuos streamer and not pair it with the purple fuse. Just like you, I was amazed the level of improvement a 'mere' fuse brought to the Zenith. Incredible!

@lalitk convinced me to replace the Supra8 with the Linkup cable (https://www.amazon.com/LINKUP-Ethernet-Screened-2000Mhz-Structure/dp/B07VVFC1XZ?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1). It took about 100 hours to burn-in but it was a noticeable improvement in sound quality. It's very cost effective and worth trying. 

Yes, that LinkUp 8 cable is quite the value. I've been using it since 2021 and it is awesome, better than Supra Cat8 in my system. Another thing to consider, is after you've played the cable for that hundred hours, reverse the direction to listen for less quality or better quality sound. I know the Supra Cat8 was sensitive to it and it was quite easy to hear. Lalit is doing a great job spreading the word!

Just bought a LinkUp Ethernet cable because at that price, why not….  Will see how it compares with my Audioquest Diamond cable which costs more than 10X more…

I spent a couple of hours this Saturday testing the effect of Herbie’s Audio Lab Tenderfeet with the MU1.  I find these don’t work well with all components, but when they work, they REALLY work…  More separation, cleaner vocals, more coherent high frequencies.  But the thing I find you have to be careful of, is that while they almost add positive benefits, sometimes they also can take away something from a particular component.

With the MU1 I’m confident that the benefit of Herbie’s Tenderfeet is unequivocally an all-positive tweak - and a big one too.  With my Tambaqui, I think they are not so good.  I think the sound becomes a bit less muscular and loses some of its charm.  The Tambaqui doesn’t even have feet of its own, just two metal rails on the left and right sides.

With Herbie’s Tenderfeet I find you must be very careful to place them under your gear very evenly, and a bit of experimentation is needed in the optimal placement to get the best degree of transparency.  It’s crazy that even moving the Tenderfeet just half an inch changes the presentation.

 

 

@nyev 

Herbie’s Tender feet’s are good and offers a great value. When it comes to components Isolation and vibration control, sky is the limit. Over the years, I went through so many of these type of devices. While they work to a degree, nothing is more profound as installing your components in an audio rack that addresses all the airborne and floor borne vibrations effectively. There is an obvious upfront high cost but once you make the commitment, you’re done messing around. 

@nyev 

@lalitk 

 

Interesting posts, thanks for sharing.

@lalitk , what you say makes a lot of sense, as the rack impacts every component at once. In fact, by far the biggest boost was when I installed four of Herbie’s “Giant Fat Dots” under my current heavy wooden shelf. There was a sudden boost that was far larger than when installing Herbie’s Tenderfeet under each individual component, as it improved all components at once.

However - I first installed the Giant Fat Dots under my shelf, I didn’t do it right. I let the shelf’s four plastic feet rest on the Fat Dots. Herbie’s says these are only for applications where you are interfacing two broad, flat surfaces. When I corrected this fairly recently and moved the fat dots to another location under the shelf away from the shelf’s feet (which raises the shelf’s feet off the floor as the Fat Dots are taller than the shelf’s feet), I couldn’t believe how much stability and solidity was added to the image. Prior to correcting this, the image was always every so slightly “skewing” in one direction or another, especially after I moved a component on my shelf which I guess slightly changed how the shelf’s feet were digging into the fat dots.  The curse of a revealing system.

I expect a high end audio rack would go even farther as you say. The trouble is for me, most tend to look more like science equipment than a welcoming presentation of your system, at least from what I’ve seen.

I’ve just ordered from Herbie’s those discs that you rest on top of your gear. I did this after I experimented by placing a small square piece of granite on top of each component in my system and realizing that it helps. Not to the degree that the Tenderfeet help but still a boost. Unfortunately you can’t really do this with the MU1 because of its chassis design and the big button wheel on top (there I made this at least a bit on-topic :) ). I was able to do it with the Tambaqui despite its curved top. For all components I found the sound became a bit more crisp and sweet in the upper mids and up top.

@nyev I agree with using 1.5m cables for any digital connections. Nordost makes only 1.5m or more for digital cables. Unfortunately the only Sablon AES cable I could get was 1 m but still I could get an idea of how it sounds. I do have the Sablon 1.5m Spdif so I can compare the two. Grimm Mu1 outputs both AES and SPDIF simultaneously so I can go back and forth with a flip of a switch. So far the Sablon is holding on its own. I will make a decision once I get the Jorma to try. 

I will also be comparing the Grimm Mu1(mine) and my friends Taiko Extreme next weekend (hopefully). I will give my impressions on that too. 

@svenjosh ”So far the Sablon is holding on its own. I will make a decision once I get the Jorma to try.”

Probably too early but is the Sablon AES really keeping up with the Omega and Odin 2? If so that’s incredible….

BTW I did actually get two Nordost Valhalla 2 USB cable demos last year (I needed two for my Zenith and PhoenixUSB reclocker) and one was 1m and the other was 2m with the 1m practically sounding broken in comparison to the 2m. So if Nordost stopped making sub 1.5m cables it must have been recent (or my demo cables were old possibly).

Very lucky you get to test the Taiko. Will you get to try it in your system or will you try your MU1 in your friend’s system? I expect the Taiko will win although I have seen some forum posts saying a few prefer the MU1. But even if I could afford one I’m not sure I’d go that route. Imagine spending that much on a top of the line server from 2013. Personally I’d not be at all happy with a top of the line 2013 server here in 2023. And spending that much, I’d want to be still happy with it in 2033. I can live with having to upgrade the Grimm MU1 in 10 years or so however. Just my own perspective though…. The Grimm ring-binder manual that comes with the unit says something like “Your music player for life” or something like that…. Funny.

Yes the Sablon is really good, I need to do some more back and forth before I can say for sure.
Tbh, I don’t know for sure if Nordost makes any cable less than 1.5 but when I was getting my XLR cables a couple of years back, I wanted 0.5m or 1m. But my dealer told me that as far as Odin2 digital cables, he could get me only 1.5m and I assumed Nordost did not make anything shorter. He also referred me to the article by Steve Nugent in positive feedback for the reasoning. So it may be either Nordost was not making anything shorter in Odin line or my dealer deciding not to carry anything shorter.

As far as Taiko and Grimm, I am going to take my Grimm to my friends place as it is easier than getting his Taiko to my home. I will be happy if the Grimm is getting close to 90% of Taiko.

@svenjosh , thanks I’ll check out that article on Positive Feedback. TBH every explanation I’ve seen to date detailing the reasons for the 1.5m minimum has been specific to the USB protocol and how it synchronizes between source and destination. AES cables use a totally different protocol and maybe are different. That said Nordost suggests 1.5m minimum for all digital cables. Again I wouldn’t put too much stock in vendor statements like this, if not for the fact that I heard the difference for myself as plain as day (for USB cables). And I heard this for myself before I even knew about the general recommendations.

Looking forward to seeing how the Sablon cable pans out for you - results seem very promising so far considering what you are staking it up against.  

“Also… in reading the manual for the MU1, I noticed that they state that you must use the variable volume control, and that they recommend not using a fixed volume level. I am interested in how that does not reduce the quality of the digital signal. Can anyone chime in about that?”

@peter_s , I checked page 11 of the MU1 manual after you pointed that out, finally...  I believe the manual is referring to when you are NOT using an analog preamp as a volume control, you must use the MU1’s variable volume instead of other volume controls (in other words don’t fix the MU1 volume and have Roon set the volume in this type of setup).  I think using the analog preamp as the volume and disabling the MU1 volume control is just fine.

 

“The Phoenix Net is in no small portion a reclocker. In my system I reclock the ethernet with both an Etherregen clocked by Antelope 10m preceded by a LHYaudio Ocxo switch. The effect of both is demonstrable and not achievable by Isolators or filters.”

@antigrunge2 , getting back to this topic…. You are absolutely correct that the PhoenixNET adds an element of refinement to the MU1, presumably in part due to its reclocking function.  But I find it also has its own sonic character that seems to inhibit the MU1 in particular (can sound wonderful with other streamers).  The MU1 simply doesn’t sing quite as freely with the PhoenixNET in the chain, at the top of the midrange band.

“The Phoenix Net is in no small portion a reclocker. In my system I reclock the ethernet with both an Etherregen clocked by Antelope 10m preceded by a LHYaudio Ocxo switch. The effect of both is demonstrable and not achievable by Isolators or filters.”

@antigrunge2 , getting back to this topic…. You are absolutely correct that the PhoenixNET adds an element of refinement to the MU1, presumably in part due to its reclocking function. But I find it also has its own sonic character that seems to inhibit the MU1 in particular (can sound wonderful with other streamers). The MU1 simply doesn’t sing quite as freely with the PhoenixNET in the chain, at the top of the midrange band.  The refinement factor it adds isn’t huge.  With my Innuos gear I think the PhoenixNET’s character improves things rather than holds it back, which isn’t surprising.  
 

Nevertheless I’m going to start with the Muon Pro filter in a few weeks.  At some point in the future I may experiment with other Ethernet switches/reclockers…

Just finished reading the highly technical article that @svenjosh referenced explaining why digital cables less than 1.5m are not ideal.  I have the right background to understand it but I did have to read through it a couple of times to figure it out as it’s been a while.  

Here is my attempt at a one sentence explanation, assuming I understood it correctly:  A fast transition of a square wave transmitted to the DAC by the streamer will cause the DAC’s receiver to receive it a few nanoseconds later.  The DAC will register the transition and then impose that transition back on the line - slightly later.  After 3-4 “ping-pongs”’ of these reflections the timing of the digital sample can result in the transition being registered at the incorrect time.  Essentially, jitter.  A 1.5m cable will prolong this ping-pong effect with delayed propagation over a 1m cable, and the digital sample will occur prior to the damage (jitter) caused by the ping-pong effect.

Okay a bit more than one sentence :)

Here is the link to the Positive Feedback article.  For anyone technically inclined, I’d be curious to know my summary of the article is accurate….  Or if maybe I totally misunderstood it :)

 

 

There are some comments in this thread about using the PhoenixNet with the Grimm Mu-1.

The PhoenixNet only operates at 100Gb/s.

The Mu-1 gives its best performance with a 1Gb Ethernet speed. Running it at 100Mb/s will hold it back.

The Mu-1 should be used with a 1Gb/s Ethernet switch and a 1Gb/s Ethernet filter to get the best performance.

 

“The PhoenixNet only operates at 100Gb/s.

The Mu-1 gives its best performance with a 1Gb Ethernet speed. Running it at 100Mb/s will hold it back.”

@richtruss thank you.  That would make a lot of sense.

@richtruss I am not sure I understood. Why would any device run only at 100gb/s? There is no 100Gb/sec available for any home in US. Even 1Gb/s is not consistently available.

Moreover why do you need 1Gb/sec. You can get max bandwidth (192hz/24bit ) with around 10Mbps. Grimm mu1 manual recommends 50 Mbps Ethernet. Can you link a reference as to where Grimm recommends 1GB/s?

 

Why is it that so many MU1 owners end up pairing it with a Tambaqui (or vice versa)?  It it just due to precedent, that they are both Dutch, and have both had a common designer that had a hand in their design?  Or, does this pairing actually sound better than other alternatives?  For me it’s the former I suppose.

I believe it partially due to being represented by the same distributor and imo a very good combination compared to my prior setup, which  was an AuralicAries G1 to a Playback Merlot fed by Roon off my PC.   

@svenjosh Oops! My apologies! It was early in the morning, pre coffee, when I wrote that and it should say the PhoenixNet operates at 100Mb/s, not 100Gb/s, so my bad, and annoyingly I can’t edit it.

The speed of the communication between devices on a local Ethernet network will be down to the hardware level of the Ethernet interface in the device. Most modern devices, including the Grimm, can operate at 1Gb/s. Using the PhoenixNet will prohibit this.

Our experience of listening to the Grimm at 1Gb/s and 100Mb/s connection speeds clearly shows an improved sound quality at 1Gb/s.

I hope that clarifies.

 

 

@richtruss , I was thinking about this and not everyone has internet service of 1Gbps. I believe I have up to 300Mbps service to my house. Also, if the communications were capped at 100Mbps even when the MU1 can do 1Gbps, I wonder if that would really matter? Not saying it doesn’t matter but just wondering. If it does matter, that would be an argument to upgrade my internet service I would think!

Update:  further to this, I looked and even Innuos streamers including the Zenith Mk3 support Gigabit Ethernet when the PhoenixNET is noted as supporting only up to 100Mbps.  So this would imply that capping to 100Mbps doesn’t hold back sonic performance as Innuos wouldn’t have held back their own streamers with the PhoenixNET.

@nyev Please note there is no correlation between the speed that your local Ethernet network devices communicate with each other, to the speed of your Internet service.
Data from the internet can be buffered (loaded into memory) at a slower speed, and then transmitted at faster speeds between local devices.

Hi, Niev for your comparisons between the Innuos combo and the MU1, they are much appreciated as I own two of the three Innuos you have. I don't know what DAC you have, since that is a very important element in the sound chain. Although the purchase of a Mu1 would be in order to replace the Innuos combo, after your comments I am left wondering if this would be a good decision since it means an outlay of more than $5000. Another option to consider would be to look for a streamer (better without a dac) to do the work of roon ready. There are products that can be attached to my Innuos combo, and it seems that an interesting option would be the new Innuos Pulsar, but it seems that I don't know when it will be released. Another option could be Hifi Rose with the 150B, which, having a digital output, is perfect for my system. Many doubts... About what would be the best option.

@nadimjaber, I have to say that between replacing my three Innuos boxes with the MU1, and replacing my Gryphon Diablo 300 DAC module with a Mola Mola Tambaqui, the upgrade to the DAC has made the most difference.  But the fact that the MU1 is slightly better than Innuos (along with a different sonic presentation), in one single box, is a win for me personally. Keep in mind I expect the MU1 will get a boost when I finally get my upgraded cables, as I am using only a basic set currently.  I’m also using a 1m AES which as above is not as ideal as a 1.5m length for digital interconnects.

Unfortunately there’s no way to figure out what will give you the biggest boost aside from just trying stuff out.  I started down that path by buying used gear that is easy to sell with good demand on the second hand market, wherever I could.  That way I was able to try stuff without too much of an added cost. Wasn’t able to do that with the MU1 though, so I was risking losing a bit more if it didn’t work out.  Thankfully the MU1 is here to stay though.

On digital cable length -- I have used the same make of excellent AES cable, with different lengths (both 1.5m and less than 1.5m), in my rig and I cannot distinguish the difference. YMMV.

hi. In my system I have had the opportunity to test the Innuos Phoenix Net together with the Zenith and the Phoenix USB and faced with a simple Netgear 108. The results were quite clear for me, very subtle or practically indistinguishable and I could not in a blind test differentiate between both switches. The explanation is that the reclocking of the signal that the Phoenix USB makes before entering the DAC causes a redundancy in the data synchronization that does not allow the signal to be differentiated from one to the other. Although each audio system has its own idiosyncrasies and characteristics, in mine it was not worth investing in a HIFI switch.

The Grimm and Innuos were very popular at Axpona this weekend. As good as they sounded you went into a room with vinyl and they are still not quite there. 

“I have used the same make of excellent AES cable, with different lengths (both 1.5m and less than 1.5m), in my rig and I cannot distinguish the difference.”

@metaldetektor I expect it depends on your DAC’s jitter rejection abilities as to how much of an issue this is.  Also, while I clearly heard the difference when comparing the same USB cable of different lengths, I do wonder if maybe USB is more susceptible to this issue than AES.  Of note, I tested two Nordost Valhalla 2 USB cables of different lengths, and I also heard the same effect when I tried a .75m Audioquest Diamond USB cable vs my 1.5m versions of the same cable.

@benzman 
“The Grimm and Innuos were very popular at Axpona this weekend. As good as they sounded you went into a room with vinyl and they are still not quite there.”

I heard that Innuos was showing off the Pulsar (although not a functioning demo?).

And yes, I wouldn’t expect that we’d be quite at the level of analog enjoyment in the digital world quite yet…. Maybe one day, maybe never!

Hi, Different sources, different sounds. It's that easy. Just as not all dacs sound the same, and not all turntables sound the same, the different sound formats will have their own imprint and each one is free to choose the one they like best. Which and in summary is a matter that in many cases is subjective and there, particularly, I do not enter

 

About Sablon cable: I have the Sablón USB cable and it is a cable with which I am very satisfied in terms of its sound result. Highly recommended. That does need an adaptation period of many hours.

There is a difference between AES cables that is easy to hear when you go back and forth. But the difference is not as significant as other interconnect cables. 

I found that a high quality aes/ebu cable was a worthwhile investment but it isn’t night and day “a veil was removed and my wife walked in and asked what changed” kind of improvement. It matters but its the last thing to address rather than the first.

The digital link is crucial. It's the first thing I would address.

I personally wouldn't invest in a high end dac and server, and not have a reference digital cable.

Maybe the digital AES cable people have tried on this thread were all on the same level.

The digital cable I am using made all other digital cables I've tried sound broken. When I first heard it, my jaw dropped. I thought to myself, how is this even possible, when it's just digital bits?

@woots You should have compared the Grimm to the new Lumin models with the new processing engine. It's a huge step up from the older Lumin models.