Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?

On the snapshot page, you clicked “Advanced” and don’t see anything? That’s my first reaction, defer to the Grimm folks for more detailed troubleshooting 

@metaldetektor , nope, nothing under advanced related to storage. So yeah seems like something may have been missed in the QC process I guess.

While I’ve been traveling for work my 12 year old son has been kindly helping me troubleshoot over FaceTime…. 

@metaldetektor , after you mentioned that storage status is displayed on the Advanced tab I checked the online manual to see what it should look like.  Sure enough I see there is a bar indicating consumed space.  But I got my wife this time to send me a screenshot of the advanced settings (yes I have a very patient family, considering I’m traveling and call home to get them to troubleshoot my audio gear!).  In the screenshot, there is no such storage capacity bar but the rest looks the same as in the manual.  This confirms that the MU1 is not recognizing the drive and that it’s not user error on my part.  I still think they may have forgot to install the drive!

Hello @nyev and @Lalitk, I received my MU1!

I was able to deauthorize and unpower my Nucleus+ and start Roon Core on the Grimm fairly easily. Somehow I muddled through the confusing internal drive thing and do see the internal drive.  Mine is 8T.  I got Qobuz and Tidal started easily, and have moved some of my files to the internal drive.

BUT, I have so far failed at being able to restore my roon database from a backup.  I have a bunch of playlists so I want to do this.  I have found the instructions for this confusing.

SOUND: Amazing.   I have my JCAT M12 switch upstairs feeding a 20m run of Supra Cat 8, into the MUON PRO filter, feeding the MU1.  Then my K-S Elation AES into my Tambaqui.  I am using a K-S Realization power cable. The music is so 'easy'.  The Tambaqui has always been very resolving, yet now I seem to hear more things but in an unstressed way.  The bass is also much fuller.  It just makes me smile and I want (and have) stayed up very late listening to my favorites.

I removed the Muon Pro filter, but think it adds something.  Not as big as an impact as before the MU1.  I put it back in.

I also have a Network Acoustics Muon AES cable to compare.  It is very good and costs less than its competition.  It is a close second to the Elation.

I have also been streaming to three other endpoints now using Roon Core in the Grimm.  It has worked perfectly.

Maybe everyone know this, but I was slow to realize that running additional Roon endpoints lessens the sound quality.  When I sit down late at night, only running my main system, it always sounds amazing.  I thought it was the time of day or power grid issues.  But it is easily heard adding a second zone while critically listening.

A big thumbs up for the Grimm, but advice appreciated on restoring my Roon Database!

@fastfreight Have you tried the Roon user forums? They have a few topics dedicated to Roon database restore issues.

@fastfreight , glad to hear everything is sounding great!  Looking forward to hearing how the sound changes from my Innuos setup feeding my Tambaqui!  Detailed yet unstressed is definitely what I am after as well.  Sorry I can’t help you with your particular issue.  I trust that you can access your MU1’s internal storage without the issues I have (assuming you opted to include storage in your MU1)?  

@fastfreight :

BUT, I have so far failed at being able to restore my roon database from a backup.  I have a bunch of playlists so I want to do this.  I have found the instructions for this confusing.

That’s because you did not restore from back up initially when setting up your Grimm as the new Roon Core:

1. Since this is your first time launching your new Core, you will be asked to log-in. Instead of logging in, click "Restore A Backup" in the lower-left hand corner 

However, you can still restore from existing backups (of the database). Go to Settings (on Roon), then Backups, then pick at the bottom Find Backups/ Browse. I hope this helps

@fastfreight , hope you are getting your issue resolved.  Just wondering if you’ve noticed any burn-in effects of the MU1, assuming you’ve been running it 24 hours? @ghasley mentioned he thought it should only require a few days.  Any changes in the sound?

Eelco Grimm sent me a note indicating that their support engineer would be in touch with me on Monday and he had a couple of theories as to what could be going on with my drive issue.  He also noted that he has seen this thread.  Maybe this thread has helped them sell a few MU1’s….

Thank you @thyname ,  I have tried all of this, and I have done this before on my room nucleus. But when I go to Roon and try to restore back up, I can’t see any of my back ups. They are on a USB hard drive that was plugged into my nucleus. Now I have it plugged into my laptop, which is on my net work. I can see the back up folder on the raid hard drive, but I can’t seem to get it into the MU one folder, which should not be the heap folder, correct? 

@fastfreight : if your Roon database is in your network, then I think you will need to do "add network share" in your Grimm before you can access your files. I am sorry I cannot help much not being there. You can also try to copy the Roon database from USB hard drive to the internal storage of your Grimm, but I really don't know whether this is possible. 

I connected mine last week and the jump in SQ was huge coming up from Roon/Quboz on my PC with NAS to an Auralic Aires G1, KS Emotion usb to my Tambaqui. Now the Grimm feeds the Tambaqui with KS aes Elation to my Audionet Humboltd to YG Haileys. You guys will be blown away on many levels, easily my favorite source at this point. Bonus since Roon is in it it’s more user friendly too.

Thanks Bill.

@jedclampet great to hear.  Currently flying home and get back late tonight.  Will be able to listen to my MU1 with my Tambaqui late tonight, as I purchased a basic AES cable while travelling (an older Cardas), while waiting for premium cables to arrive.  Will be listening to Tidal Streaming as I still have the hard disk issue that Grimm will get back to me on.

Why is it that so many MU1 owners end up pairing it with a Tambaqui (or vice versa)?  It it just due to precedent, that they are both Dutch, and have both had a common designer that had a hand in their design?  Or, does this pairing actually sound better than other alternatives?  For me it’s the former I suppose.

@thyname I see the network share option but do not know how to type it!

@nyev it either seems to be getting better or I seem to be appreciating it more!

@nyev Hi, this is a long thread so I didn’t read every post. I noticed you tried out an Arunder N20 recently that I am interested in. Which USB cable did you use to pair with it? Did you think the N20 is not as detailed as Innuos MK3 plus PhxNET? I have a Shunyata Omega USB that provides great details, and I think it maybe a good match with N20. Thanks!

@dchang05 I tried the N20 with an Audioquest Diamond USB and also a Diamond AES.  While the Omega is certainly better than the AQ Diamond, I would not expect the Omega to have more detail.  In the past (with my Innuos gear) I’ve tested a Nordost Valhalla 2 USB and found it to be better than the AQ Diamond, but it didn’t have any greater detail (but I didn’t think it was worth the cost).  The Diamond is known to be a revealing cable.

With that said the N20 had less high frequency detail and dimensionality than the Zenith and PhoenixUSB.  However, I’m starting to think my Innuos setup may achieve that be slightly boosting these frequencies or presenting them in a more forward way.  Either way, there were certain instruments, high hats etc that I heard loud and clear with my Innuos gear that was very difficult to hear with the Aurender.

I also noted above how Aurender says their AES interface will be better than their USB interface, due to the high precision clock that is only used with AES.  It’s stated right on the N20’s web page in the first feature bullet.  That said I could not reliably tell the difference when comparing the Diamond USB and AES cables.  I thought the AES sounded better, but if it was it was so close that I couldn’t be certain.

It is great to hear from the actual user’s point of view. Different users could have different experiences of course. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the MU1! 

My initial thoughts on the MU1 (streaming until I get my hard drive issue resolved) - fantastic. As expected. Perfect solid tangible detail.

I’m also using an old, non-current generation Cardas AES cable until my premium cable arrives. The dealer who sold me this old cable (purchased while traveling) wasn’t even able to identify the model - we only know that it is green! We found a few examples of sales on Audio Mart to figure out that it was pretty much the most entry level AES HiFi cable you can get, and it was old.

With that HUGE caveat - and I can’t stress that enough - I really enjoy the sound of the MU1 and I really enjoy the sound of my Innuos gear, both feeding the Tambaqui. The MU1 is clearly more capable when it comes to detail - the details and texture of electric guitars leap out of my speakers in such a tangible, raw yet refined, and different way. The Innuos by comparison is smoother, but not in a way that you notice missing detail unless you do a direct comparison. Unexpectedly, the Innuos gear has a fuller and more linear, 3D depth presentation - but I think that may be due to my very basic AES cable I’m using currently with the MU1. The MU1 has way more, I was going to say hardness but that would give the wrong impression - more impact and grit than Innuos. From snare drums to kick drums and bass, the impact and pacing is fantastic and better than with the Innuos. I’ve also now noticed that the Innuos Zenith plus PhoenixUSB Reclocker have a forward presentation of mids and treble. This makes vocals “pop out” a bit more, with very smooth vocals and treble. The vocals are slightly more enjoyable on the Innuos currently due to that “pop-out” effect and the smoothness.

Again, so important - I am probably just describing the limitations of my current very basic and old AES cable, so it’s not as if I’m forming any conclusions whatsoever with the MU1 at this point! I also notice very little difference between the 4X and NOS modes, but again, that is likely due to being performance-capped by my AES cable.

I also tried the MU1 direct to my Diablo 300 DAC and it sounded very enjoyable - with less detail than with the Tambaqui but really enjoyable. Do I like it better than the Innuos in this configuration? I think so, but too early to say definitively.

Not sure where every combination will land in terms of what I will LIKE the most, but I’m going to wait until my cables arrive to figure that out! I expect the cables to change a lot, especially in terms of spatial positioning/imaging, dimensionality and depth.

Unexpectedly, the Innuos gear has a fuller and more natural depth presentation

Right there….

I would personally NOT want to replace a piece of gear with those two attributes with an alternative that yields a lesser result. Less full, and less natural depth.

But that’s just me.

On another note, my friend who was getting the Grimm MU1 is going silent. I don’t want to bother him with questions. Give him the proper time to evaluate 

@thyname , I didn’t mean to imply the Innuos sounds fuller in tone or body; I meant a fuller soundstage depth. But now that I think about it, the Innuos is slightly fuller in body. The MU1 is by no means lean in tone however. It’s got a very even balance to my ears and things definitely don’t sound leaner or brighter with the MU1.

important to re-emphasize just how basic my cabling is right now - I have the cheapest possible AES cable (with the MU1) and balanced interconnects in my system currently, and will be about to go to the other end of the spectrum in a few weeks. With my Innuos gear I have my Audioquest Diamond USB cables which I’ve found to be fantastically transparent with great depth and I found to be great value compared with far more expensive cables (Nordost Valhalla 2 for example). So, currently my Innuos gear has an advantage over my MU1 in my system I think. The new interconnects will add depth and separation too so I think things will change dramatically for both Innuos and the MU1 when these cables arrive.

The ONLY thing that bugs me slightly about the MU1’s sound - and I really think I should probably be saying what bugs me about my really old basic Cardas AES cable’s sound - is that the soundstage depth doesn’t totally sound consistent / even / linear compared with Innuos / Audioquest Diamond. I notice this the most with vocals.  Could be that my speakers need some placement/toe-in adjustment as well.

Oh one other thing, I see Mola Mola advertises that the Tambaqui has specific filters for each input - USB, AES, etc.  So these differences presumably have an impact. 

Updates! First, I fixed my MU1’s hard disk myself. After Eelco mentioned in his note that the issue may be related to the hard disk’s USB connection not being connected, I thought that would be the simplest thing to fix. So tonight (while watching M3gan with my daughter, so I desperately needed something to do while enduring that pain…) I opened the chassis, and sure enough, the USB connector wasn’t inserted in the PCB’s port. Plugged it in and problem solved. And I got to check out the inside of the MU1 and snapped some pics of the PCB’s and cabling.

Second, I disabled the MU1’s volume control. I don’t know if this has a positive impact on sound quality, as it apparently does with some DACs.

Third, I toed in my speakers quite a bit more.

The results are breathtaking. Everything on the MU1 sounds absolutely perfect now. Soundstage depth is full, even and natural now. And vocals are spectacular and intimate. Like a “window into the recording studio” as some have said. The level of of precision is stunning. I think Innuos still has a more full body but this is bloom which is not as realistic. The 4X OS is more noticeable over NOS now - but still more subtle than I expected. It’s as if some barriers are removed and everything becomes ever so slightly more free and extended. I hear it in the upper mids and treble the most - becomes sweeter and more free sounding. Punk and grunge music with blaring guitars sound absolutely vicious in such a good way. All this detail and it’s really the opposite of fatiguing.

Tonal balance on my overall system sounds great - overall full balance with lots of bass that is so, so well defined and controlled, and as I mentioned before the impact and slam is just way more solid than my Innuos setup at all frequencies. Price point wise, not factoring the added cables, the Zenith Mk3 and PhoenixUSB cost a bit less than the MU1. But the MU1 still costs less than an Innuos Statement (non Next-Gen).

Another thing. As I mentioned I’ve been having issues with poor quality power lately. Yesterday around dinner time was the absolute worst I’ve ever heard - everything became a soft spongy mess while I had my Innuos gear running. Not enjoyable to listen to. Switched it over the MU1, and it sounded like music again. There was enough separation and impact that the MU1 was able to cobble together a coherent musical presentation with a worst case poor quality power scenario.

I think the speaker placement adjustment made a huge difference. Was needed to deal with all the extra detail that is coming through now.

Pretty happy with the MU1 at this point! The detail and impulse control reminds me of what is more easily achieved with an excellent headphone setup. Which is not easy for a full system to be able to do. And most importantly it’s very, very musical -  however you want to define that.  For me it means it sounds like people making music that conveys emotion and a feeling, as opposed to a HiFi system. Not dry/cold/analytical/lean at all!

Glad you are enjoying your MU1 and Tambaqui combo. I have the same setup and love it. Give your MU1 and AES/EBU cable a couple hundred hours of break in. It will get fuller and better tonally without losing that openness and detail. The dynamics and bass detail is great! It really controls the bass wonderfully and vocals will come around with more hours on it. 

On Qobuz check out Dan Patlansky: Wooden Thoughts Album, songs Big Things Going Down and Hallelujah. The guitar sounds so real with great dynamics, bite, and feel. It sounds awesome! Streaming sounds really good, if the recording are well made!

Hi @nyev,

Thanks for the great update!  Is this update still with your “basic old cheap” Cardas AES, and AQ Red River ICs?

@snopro thanks for the tip I will check out those songs on that Dan Patlansky album. In general the texture and sizzle of electric guitars is more alive sounding than I’ve heard on a full system before.

@rockrider , yes this update is with my basic interim cables still. I’ve since moved my speakers slightly apart and the sound has become bigger in scale with even more depth and dimension. As good as it was before it’s sounding even better now.

I really respect Innuos a lot and don’t want to make it seem like Grimm is good and Innuos is not, because that’s not the case. The Innuos setup has a charm to it that the Grimm doesn’t have. With the Tambaqui, Innuos is very clean and smooth, but with a large-scale overall presentation, and again that forward presentation of the mid and upper ranges. Presence.  Yes, that’s it! The Innuos setup does exceptionally well with presence, ambience, and scale.

But while the MU1 may not have these qualities quite to the same degree, it heads in a totally different direction - stunning detail, tangibility, solidity, impact, and music that is totally alive and captivating with more athletic drive to it. And I get more of a feeling of people playing music as opposed to listening to reproduced music.

A few posts ago I mentioned that eighties albums (like Bowie’s) that have a narrower presentation of vocals sounded even narrower with the Tambaqui. This was when driven by Innuos. With the MU1 and the Tambaqui, that problem is non-existent and Bowie sounds natural (or at least as natural as Bowie can sound…) One track that accentuates this is Bowie’s “Panic in Detroit”. Vocals sound free and not constrained to a narrow presentation, and wow the bite and snarl on the guitars are just incredible, especially with the dual distorted guitar tracks on the left and right through the outro.

I don’t think the Tambaqui and MU1 are going to be liked by everybody and it’s going to be system dependent. If the rest of my system was neutral, I possibly may have found the Tambaqui/MU1 too lean. But my Diablo 300 adds a richness without losing detail that is just right for me. There is a rawness that I just absolutely love, but some may prefer a smoother less textured presentation like what the Innuos does. Don’t get me wrong when I say raw I don’t mean harsh, not by a longsshot. I mean that the detail and texture is fully intact. But the presentation is so relaxed and unforced yet hard-hitting at the same time, and this makes it all so easy to listen to for hours on end. If you are a whisky drinker, it’s sort of like some who prefer Johnnie Walker Blue with some ice and love that it is “smooth”, vs others who prefer a well-aged single malt that is packed with character, unchill-filtered and bottled at cask strength, with no ice and just a few drops of room temperature water. If you are into whisky you know what I mean. Both styles are valid and cater to a different audience. Also to be clear I don’t mean to compare Innuos with Johnnie Walker Blue, that would be unfair to Innuos, lol…. Innuos has far more going on than that. But it’s a good example to explain the distinction.

At this point for me I don’t think there is any ambiguity as to my preference but I’ll give it a few weeks and go back to Innuos to be sure.

And to reiterate - all this is with my interim, lowest level basic AES cable and balanced interconnects. So things will likely shift dramatically again when that changes in a few weeks.

@snopro just listened to those two Dan Patlansky songs (Hallelujah and Big Things Going Down). You are right, the texture and grit makes it sound so realistic. I’d say it sounds like the guitar is here in my listening room if it wasn’t for the reverb or ambience in the recording.  Good chill music for late night.

@nyev Congrats! Looks like you've finally found the sonic bliss you were looking for. I just wish you had tried the SR Purple fuse with the Innuos. When you mentioned, "stunning detail, tangibility, solidity, impact, and music that is totally alive and captivating with more athletic drive to it", this is what I experienced when I tried the fuse with the Zenith as well.

I'm glad you took the time to learn what you wanted. I hope the Grimm works out for you.

@arafiq , I still have my Innuos gear and I’m not planning to part with it anytime soon. I’m still planning on trying the tweak with the SR fuse for sure!

With the MU1 (likely hobbled by interim very basic cables) I am missing some of the low end fullness and smoothness of the Innuos, and yes some depth too, but at the same time I can’t unhear the level of detail, tangibility, energy and drive the MU1 serves up! Based on my research I am pretty sure that my interconnects I have on order will add the overall tonal qualities of the Innuos that I like to the MU1, in addition to the smoothness and depth.

Maybe the SR fuse will add the detail, tangibility, solidity and energy I’m missing to my Innuos gear… With the cables and the fuse being massive variables, maybe this race isn’t decided quite yet!

@arafiq would you be able to remind me what SR fuse the Zenith Mk3 needs? I will order one.

@nyev 

Originally the Zenith used a slow blow, 2A, 250V, 5mm x 20mm fuse.

Innuos recommends that if audiophile fuses are used, they should be 3.15A.

So, as recommended here, you should get a Slow Blow SR Purple Fuse, 3.15A, 250V, 5mm x 20mm.

Here you can see more information about changing the fuses in the Innuos:

https://innuos.com/kb/replacing-the-fuse-on-innuos-products/

@rrohland , thank you, ordering one today….

@aewarren ​​​​@nyev, I have the M1 magic in my Tambaqui and like it. I have not tried SR purple.

anyone compared?

@nyev its nice that you are enjoying the system. It’s been great following your journey.

Thanks @svenjosh. @fastfreight or anyone else - anyone tried replacing the MU1’s fuse?

It seemed I was liking the MU1 slightly less but then I tweaked my speaker positioning again, by the slightest bit, and the slightest soundstage issues were again corrected. For me when it clicks, it’s like the vocals just turn into an actual 3D person. I think that is one thing to know when adding this much detail to your system - your speaker placement just has to be that much more dialed in. At least that’s what I’ve found!

Went back to Innuos and it definitely sounds very nice! Big, expansive, scale, presence, dimension, but also less detail and far softer impact vs the MU1.

It’s interesting, I now realize at the start of my journey my Innuos gear was not the weak point in my digital chain. It was my Diablo 300 DAC module, which won’t be a surprise to some. The Tambaqui was the big step up, as you’d expect comparing the costs. The MU1 is a step up as well, but ultimately I can see some just “liking” the Innuos sound. I think it’s a matter of preference at this point. And my preference is the MU1 in my systems current state! It’s given life and energy to albums I was previously somewhat apathetic to, which is great.

Can’t wait to see how the fuse and cables change things.

@fastfreight I see that you are selling (or have sold) your Aries G2.1/Sean Jacobs.  I'm guessing you're impressed with your Grimm MU1....I was wondering if you can share how the sound improved from the Aries/SJ combo to the Grimm.  Thank you in advance.  

Hello @calgarian5355   the Aries with the SJPS is very very good.  The Grimm is even more detailed, but much more easy and relaxing.  Not sure if it really is more detailed, but it is just so easy to listen to I hear more.  People say more analogue;  I do not have vinyl, but it is more relaxed and any harshness disappears.

“I now realize at the start of my journey my Innuos gear was not the weak point in my digital chain. It was my Diablo 300 DAC module, which won’t be a surprise to some.”
@nyev

Not surprising at all. Those who have been down this path already knew Gryphon DAC is your weakest link. And this not to say, the onboard DAC is bad or average. For most part it is good enough but you now know having done the comparison with two different outboard DAC’s, the limitations of an onboard DAC. Once you experience something better it’s hard to go back. For me, the Cost vs Performance debate doesn’t carry much weight, maybe it means more for price conscious minds. Once you’re on a pursuit of nirvana, C vs P argument takes a back seat. And it is strictly for the end users to decide/dissect the worthiness of performance upgrade. Heck, I went from $25K DAC to $45K, do I hear a jump in performance worth extra $20K…NO, but I fell in love with the nuances and subtleties brought to the presentation by my $45K DAC. To me, that was totally worth it and the end game upgrade. Now I am looking forward to streamer upgrade. That’s been my approach of building my system over the years by focusing on one component at a time.

You are on your way to building something very special that will give you years of joy and goose bumps. The cost of all that joy……priceless.

@lalitk , well stated.  All of those diminishing returns can add up to something special.

To be clear, I wouldn’t say the Merason DAC-1 performed better than the Diablo 300 DAC module.  It simply had a different, more neutral presentation that I preferred.  The Tambaqui actually did perform better than the other two DACs, but it should at twice the cost.  Between the DAC1 and the Tambaqui, which do I  like better?  It’s actually pretty close, even though they have totally different presentations.  The DAC1 is a no-fuss, inviting, engaging DAC that I think most would enjoy.  The Tambaqui adds detail and transparency though out the frequency band, but somehow is not bright or lean in my system and is musically engaging and maintains excellent coherence through complex musical passages.

My MU1 just got better. For the first time I tried removing the Innuos PhoenixNET from the chain and connecting the MU1 straight to my wall’s Ethernet outlet. Wow! Things got a bit cleaner, less restrained, a tad fuller and more immediate. And now it’s got a bit more of that presence I noted my Innuos gear does well.

The PhoenixNET really seems to help in some configurations (and when it does the effect is magical…). But maybe the MU1 is doing enough on the Ethernet input already? Anyone know what features the MU1 incorporates that may cause the PhoenixNET to be redundant?

Down two boxes now lol (no external reclocker and no Ethernet isolation/regeneration switch)!

In the manual Grimm says to please don’t use specialty “audio” Ethernet cables with “claimed benefits”. I know it’s typical for vendors to use generic power cords, but I thought this was interesting. I’m using an Audioquest Diamond Ethernet cable. At some point I’ll compare with a standard Ethernet cable.

@lalitk, "Now I am looking forward to streamer upgrade."

Why are you not satisfied with your current Merging player? By adding one of the Aurenders, you will double the player in your system.

Please let us know about your choice.

“My MU1 just got better.”
@nyev 

I did read somewhere that MU1 is immune to external switches and fancy Ethernet cables. Once you settle down with cables on the way, I would encourage you to try Network Acoustics Muon Pro Filter Kit. I think you will hear appreciable improvements with Muon Kit. 
https://www.networkacoustics.com/shop/muon-pro-streaming-system/

@toviot 

The ROON player inside the Merging DAC is a fine performer. The reason for me to consider Aurender is two folds, the superb Conductor app and possibility of pushing streaming performance even further through a transport like N30SA or W20SE. There was no contest when I compared ROON player with Aurender N20 slaved to Merging +clock, this combination smoked the ROON player. Also, Aurender supports RAVENNA protocol, which means I don’t need to rely on finicky USB or outdated legacy protocols like AES/SPDIF. I can stream files upto DSD256 natively to my Merging DAC over Ethernet. 

Once you hear a digital system fed by external master clock, you won’t be able to go back to anything else. The sound you hear with a precise master clock like Merging +clock is crisp and clear, yet rich and expansive of the highest quality with such exquisite transience and depth. Bass notes go deeper, imaging is better defined and there is more detail to the music. IME, a precise digital master clock can make good digital equipment sound great and almost like analogue. 

@lalitk thanks for the tip on the network filter. Doing some more testing, I would disagree with Grimm’s position that high end audio network cables shouldn’t be used. I would also disagree with the notion that the MU1 is “immune” to things like Ethernet switches.

I tried switching to an Amazon network cable. At first I thought it sounded better than my Audioquest Diamond Ethernet cable. Vocals were better formed and clearer. But very quickly I realized almost all instrumentation was reduced to being thin and 2 dimensional. Actually a big difference. It’s funny how almost all HiFi gear companies say not to use fancy power cords and in this case network cables.

With the PhoenixNET I tried going back to it a few times to further analyze the differences. I realized that the focus and control may be improved with it, however paired with the MU1 it adds a sense of controlled restraint to the sound, and vocals and mids become slightly recessed and the sense of scale is reduced. In short I think it’s not that the MU1 is “immune” but rather that the PhoenixNET is simply not a good pairing. I think the PhoenixNET would do wonders for anyone struggling with “hot” or harsh mid and upper frequencies in their system.

@nyev 

I agree with your assessment on PhoenixNet with MU1. I also believe that PhoenixNet is a purpose-built ethernet switch that is designed exclusively to enhance the performance of all Innuos players except their flagship, Statement. 

You have a very good AQ ethernet cable on hand, don't think going back to a generic ethernet cable is an option anymore. Given your current system configuration, I highly recommend giving Muon Pro Kit a shot, it will be an icing on the cake :-)

@nyev :

I would disagree with Grimm’s position that high end audio network cables shouldn’t be used.

They all say the same. Completely understandable. They are there to sell you their stuff. Not cables. Make it all one-stop solution, with no need to buy anything else. Solid marketing strategy.

As you eloquently put it by the following, which is spot on:

It’s funny how almost all HiFi gear companies say not to use fancy power cords

Also:

I would also disagree with the notion that the MU1 is “immune” to things like Ethernet switches.

Yup! Same thing. One-stop solution, no need to buy anything else other than $10K for Grimm you are about to shell out. Marketing department working “very hard”. 🤯🤦‍♂️

@lalitk , yeah I wasn’t expecting to be able to go back to a generic Ethernet cable, rather, I was simply curious to put Grimm’s advice not to use an audio network cable with the MU1 to the test. It would be wonderful if manufacturer’s statements not to bother with such cables or power cords were true! It also makes me wonder how they can make such statements when the benefits and differences are so obvious.

A small correction on what you said about the PhoenixNET. Both Innuos and Statement owners say the PhoenixNET boosts the Statement despite the Statement including Ethernet filtering or reclocking (not sure which). It’s the PhoenixUSB reclocker that is redundant when using the Statement. Innuos always includes a PhoenixNET when demoing the Statement too (but with noPhoenixUSB). I also see in other forums many, many people using the PhoenixNET with non-Innuos gear and claiming positive results. I think it just has to be well matched from a sound character perspective (would work well I think in systems that could do with some smoothness and taming). Of course, with Innuos it’s going to fit like a glove, but I have my doubts that it is only good with Innuos.

I will definitely follow up on the Muon. Looked it up already. It makes me happy that no power cord is needed! I hate dealing with cords and stressing over crisscrossing them etc, and having to dust all around them! One question - I see it comes with an Ethernet cable. Do you recommend using the cable it comes with over and above other high end cables (like my Audioquest Diamond)?

@nyev

I recommend buying Muon Pro Kit which comes with Muon captive and a Ethernet cable. The Ethernet cables from Network Acoustics are outstanding and they compliment the Muon passive filter handsomely. They offer 30 days money back guarantee so you have nothing to loose except maybe return shipping cost.

Personally, I wouldn’t consider buying PhoenixNet or PhoenixUSB if I am pairing it with a non-Innuos server/streamer. At the end of the day, it just comes down to synergy between components.

Thanks @lalitk , will go with the Muon Pro kit including cable (will order in a few weeks). As I me mentioned while my AQ Diamond was clearly better overall than a generic cable, it was slightly troubling that there was no question that vocals were clearer and better defined with the generic cable. So I’m looking forward to trying the Muon with a different cable.

And regarding the PhoenixNET I agree it’s about system synergy for sure :)

vocals were clearer and better defined with the generic cable

This is getting very confusing 🤷‍♂️

The very reason Amir M and Cin Dyment win it every single time

So I’m looking forward to trying the Muon with a different cable.

What do you mean? Muon from Network Acoustics comes with the Network Acoustics own Ethernet cable

@nyev 

Totally agreed. System synergy is everything. Period.

If you need an inexpensive Network cable, or just want to compare to other more expensive cables, please see below. I've used it for a few years and have tried it against other value brands and is it clearly better in all ways - much better than Supra Cat8+ for example. Lalit also has used the LinkUp 8 and commented on it, maybe even in this thread. At $38 for 1M, you can't go wrong. But be advised it takes 1-2 weeks to burnin, you'll hear it as soon as it snaps into focus, really. Full disclosure, I've never demo'd any of the $500+ Network cables, so I don't know how it compares. But I'm considering the Muon Pro Streaming System - I've read that the included Network cable is very good and it makes sense to buy it when you by the Muon Pro.

Amazon.com: LINKUP - [GHMT & DSX8000 Certified Cat8 Ethernet Patch Cable S/FTP 22AWG Double Shielded Solid Cable | 2000MHz 2GHz 40Gbps | 5th-Gen Ethernet LAN Network 40G Structure Wires |Yellow| 1 M (3.3ft) : Electronics

Really enjoying following along on your OP.

@thyname, I meant I’m looking forward to trying the Network Acoustics cable in place of my current Audioquest Diamond cable which I find to be vastly superior to generic network cables, except in the case of vocals where I find the generic cable wins.  That’s why I am looking forward to trying something else other than my AQ cable :)

@nyev : thanks for explaining. I am sorry I misunderstood you. I follow this thread with great interest. Thanks for sharing