Garrard 301 - Project
I have been contemplating for a while which turntable to pursue given so many choices. Every time I look around, I just can’t help drooling over a fully restored Garrard 301 or 401. Aside from being an idler-drive, I keep reading and hearing about their unique ability to reproduce music with its sense of drive and impact thus making them very desirable to own. And with available meticulous restoration services and gorgeous plinth options, what’s not to like, right!
Would you please share your experience, good and pitfalls (if any) with a restored Garrard 301 to avoid before I go down this path.
And what about the IEC inlet and power cord, would they be of any significance. My two choices would be Furutech FI-09 NCF or FI-06 (G) inlets.
I have already purchased a Reed 3P Cocobolo 10.5” with Finewire C37+Cryo tonearm/interconnect phono cable with KLEI RCA plugs option.
Still exploring Cart Options, so please feel free to share your choice of cart with Garrard 301 or 401.
And lastly, I would like to extend my gratitude to @fsonicsmith, @noromance @mdalton for the inspiration.
221 responses Add your response
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Thank you both for clarifying. I am kinda stuck with FI-03 IEC as other IEC will not fit. Am empty fuse box feels strange, may be I can use one of those Graphene Sluggo’s @gladmo been raving about…lol! |
@noromance @mdalton @jperry @fsonicsmith I have received my plinth and it came with a generic IEC with an integrated 5X20mm fuse holder. I look around and didn’t find any fuse value on Garrard’s. Are you using a fuse with your Garrard? If yes, may I know the fuse value? I am going to replace the cheap IEC with Furutech FI-03 Gold IEC.
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@lalitk Indeed. I may have even advised that at one stage! |
Good observation! It appears so…my thought process with 301 rebuilt was to keep the tweaks for later stage. I want to hear 301 in its very basic built before tweaking or upgrading to available premium parts like idler, spindle or platter etc etc. I should have everything up and running by Labor Day weekend. |
@lalitk Checked out the new 301 and plinth. Looks great. I see Matthew went with the standard rubber idler and not the Audiosilente one. |
Appreciate your kind words. Here is rest of the system. I will post new pics once TT setup is completed with all the pieces. |
Update: Plinth finally shipped after a long 3 months wait. Pics are uploaded in my virtual system. |
Just measured everything. Inside the lip, my platter measures betw 288 and 289mm (so 292, lip included, seems right). The mat I purchased from Herbie's measures about 288, and fits inside the lip perfectly. Having said that, my email records show that I asked what size to order and they said 285. I can't find an invoice, but I don't believe I did anything different from what they suggested, so that tells me that their 285 may actually be a little bigger. Sorry for confusion. |
Thanks for sharing. I was considering Herbie’s Way Excellent II 4mm thick, 280mm (diameter). The 301 strobe platter is 11-3/4” which roughly translates to 279.4mm. Does your matt over hangs the platter? This is bit confusing as Herbie’s recommends the following,
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Thank you. I have used Gaia’s under my B&W 800D2..good stuff. Thank you for chiming in….you have given me lot of insight to digest and I really appreciate it. For starters, I am considering a mat from Herbie’s that is made from open-cell silicone foam so I should be ok with slightly concave platter. The other mat under consideration is Stein Music Carbon Signature. The 3mm CTC platter is what I had in mind along with their updated Brass Spindle. And thank you for sharing your experience on replacing the spindle…I thought it would be bit cumbersome to tackle this job once motor and tonearm is mounted so I wanted to see if I should do this upgrade now and be done with it 😊 |
I’ve built several Garrard’s for friends - both 301 & 401 - to very high specs. I’ve also heard varying platters/bearings including CTC aluminium, CTC Brass, Shindo etc 401 Using an Audiograil refurbished 401 as a starting point with additional mods by myself including custom plinth I found the CTC 20mm larger aluminium platter with CTC bearing an improvement over standard. The heavy brass platter on the 401was a massive improvement over the aluminium - stability, precision - far more substantive sound with authority. 301 Here’s the rub. I don’t think the heavy platters work that well on 301’s. The reason is twofold - 401 motors have a lot more torque than the 301 and the 301 is more of a Rube Goldberg TT. The 401 is more neutral. In terms of 301 motors they varied a lot from low to medium torque. My own 301 is pretty tricked out - a number of improvements over and above the Artisan Fidelity/CTC 301’s.
I have the following mats in the cupboard - Boston 2 Graphite, Micro Seiki 180g copper, Final Audio 4.5kg copper, SAEC SS300 alloy mat, Goldmund Relief Mat/Clamp, Sota Compositions mat ( barium lead/acrylic ) and a few others. Weights and clamps in the cupboard I have include Final 1.8kg weight, Audiocraft weight 75g/1.5kg, Goldmund Relief Clamp and several others. Also tried Stillpoints weight ( horrible ), Origins Live mat and clamps - horrible. I have found the heavier platters such as CTC and Shindo sound weightier and better in some ways but they upset the base timing and coherency. I believe this is due to the 301 being a Rube Goldberg contraption where changes can upset the balance and the motor is not as strong as in the 401. I have also checked the wear on some of the heavy platter/new bearing combinations installed after a year or so and seen more wear on thrust pad and spindle than my original 50 year old bearing/spindle - there are no free lunches. My recommendation would be to get the CTC 3mm thicker standard size platter - this will give you a flat surface to try mats without adding a huge amount of mass. Personally in my own system I use the SAEC SS300 with no clamp or weight. This presents a more relaxed sound than other combinations but has the advantage of not loading up the bearing. My bearing is modded - long CTC spindle in original bearing and modded thrust pad - I cannot recommend this because spindles and bearing housings need to be made in pairs. I started with the CTC spindle ( which fortunately was oversize ) and honed it down to match my original housing. If you buy the CTC bearing to match the platter - get the long spindle version - this will enable you to experiment with thicker mats and weights clamps etc. My modded 301 easily betters my old Platine Verdier - using the same arms/cartridges in comparisons in my system. Aftermarket power supplies - you need one that can vary the speed. The Long Dog Audio fits that criteria. One thing that I noticed after rebuilding my motor, including new bearings, precision matching the motor spindle, and using the best double ester oils for lubrication - my 301 ran way faster. Calculating the speed reduction required I tried the smallest ( Red ) CTC pulley that should have worked. Unfortunately their tolerances were out by some margin, so I had to trim the motor pulley by hand, individually for each speed to get the speed control centered. What I surmise is that Garrard carried a stash of different sized pulleys for 301 production to accommodate the variability of the motors, and depending on speed, selected a pulley that got them there. Even the positioning of the motor pulley can alter the speed - I have found some original pulleys are tapered - which means you must get the pulley in exactly the right position. Using a separate power supply with speed control can bypass these problems. On my 301 my speed is absolutely spot on on all speeds without the need for an aftermarket power supply. Using this as a base I have found well designed power supplies offer an improvement - but the biggest advantage is being able to dial in the speed accurately for most 301's that are not spot on. As far as installing aftermarket bearings you can change the bearings without removing the TT from the plinth, and not turning the TT upside down quite easily - but it requires nimble fingers and small tools to get up inside underneath to the 3 nuts underneath. Hope this helps.
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I've used the Precision Audio Components 20mm oversize aluminum platter on 2 tables. It's the one sold by Classic Turntables. It brings improvements to bass, and soundstage size. I use the SPH bearing. Reviews indicate it sounds better than the CTC one. It's east to fit. No need to flip but access to underneath chassis is required. |
How tedious it is to replace spindle once TT is fully assembled (still waiting on plinth). More specifically, will I need to flip the TT upside down? I am considering Classic HiFi updated oiled brass spindle. I’m also torn between the two platter options, they both share similar traits in built i.e. aluminum grade, central bush and base are increased to give more mass to reduce the spindle noise. Would love to hear your take, 1) Shindo Style Upgraded Platter vs 2) Aluminium Platter std size but 3mm thicker finished in Satin Black I am still searching for isolation feet, are you by any chance using Track Audio isolation feet’s? Thank you!
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@dover I think I said as much with "To the best of my knowledge no 301 model was ever produced with a strobe lamp installed and only at some point after the 401 was introduced was a strobed platter offered as an option with a 301 during a short period in which both were in production, but again, without any strobe light retro-fit option" My mistake was to call it a "401 platter". I admit to not knowing the strobed platter option for the 301 was a different platter than the 401. I used to own this book-I should have kept it. After reading it cover to cover I gave my copy to Greg Metz.
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On owned ID TT;s I have had a very pleasant surprise from a 5mm Forex Foam Material. The same surprise has also been discovered with the 5mm Forex Foam in use on owned DD TT's A Friend was quite impressed with the same 5mm Material used on their BD TT, where I gifted them my spare Mat. The owner of the BD TT, now uses the 5mm Mat on their SP10 R as well. I bought 2 x 3mm and 2 x 5mm Forex Foam, produced as a TT Mat, where including delivery it was approx' £30. At the time of Purchase the Material, it was described as being the same as a Brand known as DAT Mat, which was approx' £100 and the Mat thickness I can not recall for this product. The 3mm was able to change the Sonic, but also impacted on the SQ. The 5mm is a different impact, every thing that is extremely attractive is maintained or slightly improved, even when there is a noticeable hint of Richness of Tone with the 5mm used in comparison to a Metal Mat. The Forex Foam 5mm will work with the Concave Platter. If moving away from Richness of Tone is attractive, then Metal Mats are able to produce this perception. In my experiences, the AT 666 Vacuum Mat is the one to produce the perception of being most Transparent/Lean of used Metal Mats. The Tenuto is next in perception of Transparency/Lean. The AT 677 Duraluminium Technihard and Micro Seiki Duraluminium are perceived as a hint towards Rich Tone when compared to other Metal Mats. The Micro Seiki being 8mm Thick, is perceived as the one with the most perception of a Rich Tone, with my experiences of Metal Mats used. Do not let anybody try and steer one into thinking Mats don't create a perception of Tone. Do let in the notion, that a Mat of a certain type can be quite a bad inclusion. As there is the materials, or interface for the material, that creates a end sonic, where much of what is attractive is effected to the point it is perceived as being very deficient and unwanted. The downside is to learn where the differences are to be found, does mean Differing Materials, Differing Materials Thickness are needing to be experienced in use in the environment the TT is set up in. The upside is, when the correct interface is found, there is a deep satisfaction to follow. A lot of Though has gone into what the TT and TA is to be seated on. Similar thought is also required to discover what is the best for the Vinyl, as the Source Material and Styli as the Data Extractor to be seated on.
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The platter on @lalitk Garrard 301 is a 301 strobe platter. The 401 Strobe platter is different - it has an indent in the centre about the size of the record label.. The 301 strobe platter was an extra cost upgrade in the last years of the 301 production. The only downside of the 301 strobe platter is that it is slightly concave, which means a hard mat such as copper, graphite etc are only supported at the edge. On my 301 I had the 301 strobe platter machined flat so that copper mats were fully supported over the whole surface.
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I am still learning about 301 and long ways from the finish line. Why my TT came with 401 strobe platter, no idea. I can ask but It’s not important since I never heard a 301 before with a regular platter. I am hoping to establish a baseline with what I’ve got before I go crazy with available upgrade options including outboard PS. I pretty much asked my dealer to resource a high quality 301 rebuilt. Based on initial visual inspection, I am very pleased with the rebuilt by Grail Audio in UK I wanted this to be fun and a very special project. Something, I could possibly treasure and enjoy for years to come. With all the invaluable feedback from each one of you, I am feeling pretty confident….so keep it coming! |
You have a beautiful and well thought out system. Your 301 motor unit has been pristinely restored. I could re-read this thread from beginning to end to find out for myself but I will just ask-where did you source it? I am guessing Woodsong or Classic Hi-Fi UK. I am bit puzzled that you have a 301 motor unit and a 401 platter. To the best of my knowledge no 301 model was ever produced with a strobe lamp installed and only at some point after the 401 was introduced was a strobed platter offered as an option with a 301 during a short period in which both were in production, but again, without any strobe light retro-fit option. This is a minor detail of no significance; my own grease-bearing 301 has been Frankensteined with an aftermarket heavy duty bearing and a Dobbins platter as mentioned by me earlier in this thread. I will again warn you that mounting the 3P is a very difficult proposition if you have no prior experience. Why such an advanced engineer as Vindmantas Triukas would provide such a misleading mounting template with his arms is a mystery. I mounted my second 3P myself but I had to remount it a second time, moving the arm base slightly forward to get into the zone where a typical cartridge could be mounted at optimal overhang. The integral headshells offer rather short cart mounting slots which only aggravates the situation. In this respect that I agree that having rotating leaf type mounting shelves is nice, but at the expense of esthetics, stability, and freedom from unwanted resonance. And I will again highly recommend that you look into an outboard power supply designed for induction motors to smooth out the motor operation. |
I've had a look at the Plinth and Arm along with the down stream system. This looks like it the venture is a result of a deep passion to bring Old Tech' into the World of working in conjunction with Modern Design. The Vinyl Source will be real eye candy 😎 Once fully established, with Cart's having a few Hundred Hours behind them from New. I suggest trying out a few other Platter Mats, it is quite a surprise what can occur as the result of using different materials, loaning is the easiest way to get samples to put to the test. |
I understand you are getting the Rosewood Signature Platinum (outstanding choice in my opinion). Koetsu cartridges are somewhat unique in terms of having a rich, warm sound without being murky. If you own just one cartridge, that is a great choice. I understand you have multiple arm wands, so you will have other choices. Interestingly, I know a few Garrard and Thorens idler fans who own Rosewood Signature Platinum cartridges who like the Audio Technica ART 1000 cartridge. It is a different sound, not quite as warm, but it is very good. I would add that to your candidate list. It seems like you will be having a lot of fun messing with different setups, accessories, etc. |
@lalitk Cool ;-) Speaking as a guy with just 4 turntables, n +1 arms, cartridges approximate Tribbles….. |
I’ve heard this from a number of old-school idler fans. However, I’ve two 401s with the Audiosilente idler and both sound better than the originals. The 401s were refurbished and therefore the original idlers were in good condition before substitution. I suspect the increased detail and blacker backgrounds were not what they were looking for.
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I hear you..those are all legitimate concerns when employing a long single ended interconnects. I am going to experiment with long and short IC’s and report back. Thanks for your recommendation. The tonearm is Reed 3P, let’s see what cartridge I end up preferring the most. I got my wish list of cartridges 😊 |
The matching of cartridge to an analogue rig is primarily a consideration of the tonearm. The Rosewood Signature Platinum is best used with a high effective mass tonearm. The cartridge will sound very good even when the match is not ideal, but, it will sound its best with such an arm. My local dealer sold a lot of those cartridges, mostly with Ortofon arms, and mostly with Garrard 301 and 401 and Thorens 124 tables. I don’t know why, but he did not like AudioSilente idler wheels. Unlike most fans, he also prefers the oil bearing to grease bearing; he said that the grease bearing sounds good, but it takes a very long time to heat up and sound good. |
The 2nd arm option is low priority for me. It’s nice to have that option in case I decided to sell the TT down the road. For flexibility, I ordered 3 extra headshells so I can switch out carts on the fly 😊 I am starting out with Konus Audio Vinyle 3000MC phono which is immune to cart output. For comparison, I plan to bring Tron Convergence Phono Stage. I was very impressed by Konus phono in a sub $75K system last year at AXPONA.
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I saw some nice simple round wooden feet at AliExpress. Perhaps ask them for 4 simple square or round legs, you pick diameter i.e. 60mm and thickness i.e. 40mm, forget stud, just matching wood for double face attachment. My JVC Plinth legs provide +/- 40mm clearance (adjustable). You need clearance for the tonearm cables, more if DIN below. They make right angle DIN Connectors, Pine Tree Audio made me a special din/rca phono cable for my Mission Arm to my SUT. btw, I never realized, with 2 arms, you need a way to select which arm goes to the phono stage. My Vintage McIntosh Preamp has two mm phono inputs, then I added a 3rd arm, I got lucky, my Fidelity Research FRT-4 has 3 front selectable inputs, one phono out to MM phono 1. Pass is a good feature if you change from MC to MM occasionally on either arm. My friend's Luxman 444 two arm deck has it's own built in a/b box, a nice feature |
I finally got around to checkout your beautiful system. One question on independent arm base, any challenges or advantages you could share would be appreciated. Appreciate your input on feets and dust cover. I am exploring my options. Lot of it will come down to what I end up selecting to rest my TT. A solution from SRA or HRX may negate the importance of high quality feet. First order of business will be to rest TT on my core audio rack and Slim Cerabase feet (already in-house). |
Unfortunately the Gon is doing its FORUM MEMBERS an INJUSTICE by blocking Links to other Web Sites that are totally on topic to the content of Thread. Everybody needs a good old link to help, these are coals on the fire. Stereophile - Budha Bearing review, a few useful tops about fitting these add-on devices as well. I have used and will suggest Bicycle Torque Wrench as the tightening tool. The selection of the correct Nm Setting is King in such a circumstance. 4Nm is a very good start point. An additional Collar used on the Chassis to improve Chassis Rigidity, resulting in substantial reduction on the Chassis Flexion is invaluable. There is no point having the tightest of tolerances for a new machined Bearing Assembly, set up in a way the Bearing Housing Base is a Pendulum through Chassis Flexion showing the worst of its presence at the Bearing Base. A Bearing Housing Exchange Is one of a few considerations to be used in conjunction, with adding rigidity to the Chassis and Anchoring the Bearing Housing Base to reduce flexion. Some also have methods to use a Base Anchor as a Energy Drain. |