Galion TS120

Check out the following link from Doge regarding Thomas.

https://doge.audio/anniversary/

Further to this, I have met Thomas, bought speakers from him, and have had the opportunity to audition the Galion for a couple of weeks without even a deposit for the unit. The Galion is a very nice integrated, and compared very well to my mono blocks that are 3 times the Galion’s price. Not only is Thomas very trusting , he is very trustworthy and professional. He is easily  contacted and responds to enquires and offers advice promptly. 

Me thinks I would steer clear of racks and avoid Thomas and Doge. To many other great choices with solid companies. 

@turbotan Hey can we see some internal pictures of the amp ?

@smodtactical It’s a Doge 10.
Internal pics are on the site.

https://doge.audio/product/doge-10-padc/

1- The Gallion lists for $4495.  The Doge listed for $1999.  $4495 for a piece of ChiFi? 

2- The NRD video makes them sound more alike than different.  Having owned one of these amps and heard another extensively they are as different as night and day.   My personal recommendation would be the Rogue CM III- IF you can get it stocked with KT 120 tubes.  Not an easy thing to do these days.

@avanti1960 

The $4495 is for the special edition. The standard model Galion is $3495. Having looked at the website, I think the only model Doge they are selling is the Doge 7 not the Doge 10 and it is a special anniversary sale for cash only.  

Thomas posted above:

5)Doge 10 was $2100 when they stop producing many months ago. So imagine if they start selling it again. It would probably be $2250 (due to inflation) + 30% tariff ($675)+ DHL ($400) = $3325 USD to your home. Yes, those are the hidden cost many of you did not pay attention to. While the TS120 normal edition is $3500 (Not a penny more) to your home.

Thomas also pointed out the differences in the amp you get for $175 extra as well in his post. As for the "ChiFi" comment I suppose that is meant to be a derogatory comment about where the product is made. There are numerous products that posters like that are made in China (even if designed elsewhere) or designed and made in China. There is no reason to be dismissive of a product for that one reason. For example Line Magnetic and Prima Luna. 

If you have heard and didn't like the Doge, that is fair comment. It is also fair to recommend alternatives. 

@dz13 

Thanks for the info.  The use of the term ChiFi is not derogatory in any way.  It is used to describe decent quality hifi, made in China, that are of extremely high value.  The key is high value. 

Spending amounts of money that are near or above notable mainstream hifi brand products on ChiFi is something I would question.  

@avanti1960 Thanks for the clarification. 

Hi dz 13. Congrats on the Valhalla amp. Enjoy it!

I was fortunate enough to test a Galion TS120SE. I have a separate discussion for it, but here's my .02 after a month of evaluation.

The week before the Galion arrived, I listened to my current amplifier (Line Magnetic LM-805ia) a couple hours every night so everything was fresh and familiar. Like most of us, I have a reference playlist with songs I’m intimately familiar with.

On the day the Galion arrived I listened for a few hours. My initial thoughts were that it definitely lived up to the claims from Thomas as well as the other Youtubers that reviewed it. He wasn’t joking about it having solid-state-like bass. The bass is great. I liked it a lot. Regardless of what some might have to say about tone controls, I like em. They don't have a ton of adjustment, but it's enough so I can dial in for my liking. I tried switching modes back/forth from bypass to active tone controls (with the knobs in the neutral setting) and I couldn’t hear a difference. I’m not sure if this is an accurate way to test if the tone knobs affect sound quality or not though.

I listened for about a week with the stock tubes and then started wondering how it would respond to tube rolling. I ordered 4qty of the newer Mullard KT88’s, 2 qty Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7, and 2qty 12AU7’s and was curious to see if the Galion would respond to tube rolling in the same favorable way my Line Magnetic did. I swapped the 12AU7’s first and was noticed a wider sound stage. The stock tubes were okay, but the Gold Lions were definitely an improvement as far as soundstage width is concerned. After about 8 hours of listening, I installed the 12AX7’s. They changed the tone a bit, but not much else. I would still recommend them, but not entirely necessary. Lastly, I dropped in the quartet of Mullard KT88’s. Those smoothed things out nicely. After all was said and done with the tube rolling, I was happy with it sounded

One feature I really liked is that is has dedicated RCA outs for a L/R subs. I used those to connect my DEBRA sub array and it sounded much better with dedicated RCA sub connections. On the LM, I had a DIY/ millercarbon recommended line out converter. With Galion sub outs the bass went deeper, was less boomy, cleaner and tighter with more impact.

The midrange was good, but didn’t have the same amount of openness as my L/M. I will say at certain times the Galion did seem to have more soundstage depth though.

The the imaging was great and instruments were nicely separated. No complaints here. The only thing I noticed was in only vocal songs, it sounded more compact than my L/M. The LM seemed slightly more “tubey” sounding and holographic than the Galion.

The top end was nice. No complaints at all. I watched a video that mentioned the top end was harsh early on, but I had no such experience. It was smooth and I listened for hours and hours with no fatigue.

These last 3 things are minor issues, but are things that I would change:

1. Bright blue LED lights are not pleasing to my eyes. I put electrical tape over all of them.

2. The remote buttons are loud. When listening at low volume, even if you smother the button with your entire thumb pad, I can’t make it quieter. It makes a loud click. I would put some electrical tape over those as well to dampen the sound a bit.

3. When I adjust volume (which is often) the volume increment movement is a bit too much. One bump of the volume button would make it loud enough where I’d have to get up and set it manually lower about 1/2 the movement.

In the end, I did not buy it and ended up sending it to the next reviewer. Thomas was great and sent a UPS label to cover shipping. He also sent me a set of Shuangang KT88’s to try out. Those were a little too warm for me/ too much bass. The Mullard KT88’s sounded better to me. Also worth mentioning: the Galion auto biasing worked flawlessly for me.

If you are thinking about it, I say go for it. If the Galion was out when I bought the Primluna EVO 300, I would have purchased the Galion instead. It sounds better to me and I would have also have saved a nice chunk of change.

@veerossi Thanks for the report. I was very much considering the Galion. Thomas had suggested that I be part of the testing process but I declined after obtaining the Valhalla mainly because the effort of switching these heavy amps and connections seemed a bit too much as well as dealing with the shipping. I will say that I am ecstatic with the Valhalla amp and anyone who wants to know about it can ask me but it is off topic here.

It seems that this price point of about $3,500 -- $5,000 has some great options for integrated tube amps. I am curious about your final decision. Was it based upon the tubes, the 805 tubes you have in your LM? Is it the synergy in your system? Or are you thinking of something else?

My final decision to pass on the Galion is that I already have a terrific sounding amplifier. Buying the Galion would be a lateral move at best. If I’m going to go through the expense of upgrading, I want it to be for an end-game amp. Usually, this means doubling of the budget spent on the last one.

I just want to update my situation. I am using the Valahalla amp for my main speakers, Spatial Audio Lab X5s. I went to Pacific Audio Fest and met the Spatial Audio Lab gang who are also making the Valhalla amp. Also Don Sachs who built the Valhalla amp (and has taught Cloud Sessions at Spatial Audio Lab to build them) and Lynn Olson whose design Don used. Don and Lynn are building a 300b monoblock piece de resistance which is the main topic of the 300b thread. I got to hear a prototype along with Cloud Sessions' improved Valhalla amp as well as Spatial Audio Lab's new speakers. 

Anyhow, I originally got the Valhalla to drive the Nola Boxers but it was better than the LTA and so the LTA went to drive the Boxers. I changed the set up (furniture) and the LTA unfortunately no longer fit inside the furniture as it was about an inch too wide. I had a Nakamichi TA-4A which had been recapped and sounded good so I used that as a placeholder. 

Carl Marchisotto, the guy who is behind the Nola speakers (and I also said hello to at the Pacific Audio Fest) had emailed me saying that the Boxers were meant to be played with KT88 tubes (the Valhalla uses K66 tubes and the LTA uses EL34s or KT77s) and his customers had found synergy with the Cayin CS-88A integrated tube amp. I finally found one used for sale on the Canuck Audio Mart (I've found some nice stuff there including the Boxers at less than 1/2 price as well as PS Audio's phono stage at about 1/2 price). Just came in today and yes there is synergy and a very rich sound. Heavy sucker bot it fits the space and really works well with the speakers. I had some things to deal with in terms of inputs and the right channel not working until I made sure the tubes were all pushed in but it sounds exactly what I knew these speakers could do. Yay! 

For those that might find this helpful, I thought I would share my experience with the Galion TS-120SE and how it compared to my PrimaLuna Evo400. Jump to the bullets if you want the highlights. 🙂

I have been on my audio journey since I was in my late teens, when I picked up a pair of B&W speakers from my friend’s families business (a well know HiFi store in Denver). I have been hooked ever since.

My first tube amp was the PrimaLuna Evo400. Watching Kevin Deal highlight the benefits of the amps build was convincing and I like Upscale Audio as a distributor. I have purchased many of my tubes and some of my vinyl gear from there.

During my ownership of the amp, there were certainly some things I enjoyed about it. I was able to get a solid center image on my Tekton Moabs and the sound was very crisp/clear. But with that detail came an element of grain to the highs that I could not seem to eliminate and I was always striving for more warmth/body in the mids to lower mids. Even rolling in $800 worth of NOS tubes did not get me there.

In an effort to achieve the sound I was looking for I began to try other cables, different DACs and ultimately other tube amps. This is when I hand a chance to try the TS-120SE. I had been following Thomas on YouTube for some time and truly appreciate his more objective approach to reviewing HiFi gear. Thomas was more than gracious with his time and addressing all my questions about his amp.

After listing to the Galion for a week, my mind was made up and I decided to list the PrimaLuna for sale. For what I am looking for, the Galion does almost everything better than the Evo400. For those who are interested, I thought I would share how the two amps compared in my space and what features I liked the most on the TS-120SE.

• My favorite setting on the Galion is Class A with tone control on (treble set at neutral and bass set at 3 o,clock on the dial). The amp was smooth in the highs, but not rolled off. The bass was full and filled my room much better.
• The TS-120SE is more organic sounding/more analog/more rich (but not overly colored)
• There are fewer hard edges in the upper mids to treble
• The Evo400 is more clinical sounding to me. I like detail and deep listening, but the detail is ultimately too sharp. Class A on the Galion finds a nice balance.
• I get a very clear center image with my Moabs. The center image was about the same on both amps, but the above factors made the vocals feel more human on the Galion.
• Instrument separation is a bit better with the Galion. The upgraded tubes in the Evo400 are the thing that allows the amp to get closer to the Galion.
• The Galion clearly wins in soundstage depth and three dimensionality. With the Evo400 I get a soundstage that goes about 2ft in front and 2ft behind the speakers. With the Galion the stage about it 2ft behind the speaker and 4-6ft in front.
• One big win I had was my ability to use different cable options to season to taste. I found with the Evo400 I had to be more intentional about what interconnects I use. With the Galion I was able to use cables that render greater detail and enhance the soundstage/create separation. That detail was too much of a good thing on the Evo and this added separation made it sound thin with the same cables.

Not sure it carries any real significance but since an earlier post in this thread referenced the Doge 10 as being discontinued shortly before the introduction of the TS120, I thought I would share that the TS120 is about to be discontinued.  At least the standard edition and at least in North America.  
 

This came directly from Thomas when I made a recent inquiry about upcoming availability of that model.  He indicated that he would be sharing future model plans in the next month or so.  This surprises me given the relatively short lifespan of the TS120 and the numerous positive reviews.  Not sure if those reviews translated in to robust sales or not and that is the reason or if Doge no longer wished to produce them for Galion.

Hey all, I hope everyone is well. I have been in contact with Thomas about getting an amp sent to me for evaluation and ultimately a review here. Talking about Nola and Carl certainly brings back memories of those times in Long Island, N.Y. I had met everyone at Dahlquist (I owned stacked DQ10s for a while) and appreciated the updates/improvements Carl made to them. As many of you know my story and background, I had a lot of gear come in and out of my room (s). I was an early transitioner from tubes to solid state and realized that there were some tradeoffs by doing that. Driving the DQ10s, tubes were weak running the subwoofers (same woofers as used in the Advents, just as an fyi). I was then, and still am, a Klipsch Lascala owner, and find for " my listening tastes ", the only way to listen. I have stated in over 2500 posts here, that we all are different in what we want from a sound system, and that there is no right or wrong, although for me, I am right. So many folks talk about tone, sound staging and imaging, not many talk about the true essence of listening. The musicianship and the composition are first and foremost what I want to hear, and I have stated this ad nauseam. In a post I made here a few years back, I presented a scenario, a choice, to the A'gon members. To listen to your favorite musician in an acoustic environment no better than an airport bathroom, or a beginner of that same instrument, playing at a famous concert hall. I do not recall many folks responding to this analogy, but my point was : I am more interested in what the musician is doing on the stage, rather than where on the stage he/she is. I know the importance of " them being here/you being there" is important, but I believe many folks are listening to/for the less important things. As far as Thomas and Galion are concerned, I can honestly say that I feel Thomas, via his YT channel, is one of the handful of reviewers I follow, because he listens, and communicates his findings very well. The fact that he has become an equipment manufacturer, should not deter anyone from seeing the man for who he is. A real good guy, following a passion. As always, just my 2cents. My best to all and Enjoy ! MrD.