not surprised.... stock orchid with stock tube i assume?

mhdt’s are very organic sounding, excellent dacs for the $ -- but could be improved in the speed, slam and frequency extension at the extremes ...

but then again, as you said, given the price differential, vlad’s new tubador ought to be meaningfully better, right?

Enjoy.  It's good to see great products coming from small builders.   

Interesting. My own comparisons of the Orchid with several DACs show it either outcompeting similar DACs (such as the Denafrips Ares II) or getting very close to other DACs. 

I remain convinced that Terry London's review is still valid -- the Orchid is an amazing DAC for the money. That said, if people are willing to go way above the price of the MHDT Orchid, they may hear results in their systems.

FWIW, I posted a thread about the Orchid, here:

 

When I upgraded my MHDT Orchid with top-shelf Mundorf coupling caps and Tesla 6CC42 or GE 5-star Triple Mica tubes - the speed, sound stage depth, tone/texture brought it to a new level. In my rig the Tesla is very nice.

Comparing to other dacs, this Orchid holds its own. The company owner is very supportive and responsive. Sure, spending at least ~3x in order to surpass it in some ways seems about right. Maybe 4x. DAC technology is on the move again past 2-3 years. The Orchid is a nice baseline stable reference to keep and compare what is better or just different. Swap back and compare once in a while if possible.

Enjoy the new dac!

I'm holding on to the Orchid for now.  I still like it, will go in the garage system.  Future comparison, though possible, is so past "just different" not likely.  

Newly engineered DAC IV.

 

@wlutke which connection type are you using? (AES, SPDIF/Coax, USB, Toslink)

I’m experimenting with another non-tube dac that formerly utilized a similar AD chipset and now on to something different. It’s good to read you are having favorable results with this proven r2r multibit chip design in this dac. Found some of these dacs are better than others by the connection type alone. Some not as good with USB compared to others. Not a big USB fan here.  What’s your preferred type on this dac so far?

@decooney 

I use  Wireworld Starlight 8 coax, never tried the other formats.  Still new at this.  Been into analog forever.

@wlutke Nice - I’m an old fan of digi-coax myself, I bet it sounds even nicer once everything settles in like @tvad mentioned. Enjoy!

I have a question. Does anyone know the configuration of the I2s connection? I can't find it on their website. This unit interests me but It would need to work with the Jay's cdt2-mk3 configuration.

I’m still very happy with the Pontus ll, but am always happy to hear others thoughts about their equipment. 

My further impressions another 4 hours in:

Delicate signals have location, articulation and body.  I can easily follow backstage instruments and vocals to the micro level. Nothing etched or exaggerated.  Natural.

Treble is sweet.  Not rolled off or syrupy sweet.  Sweet as in "I love percussion, give more".  

Very dimensional.  It's as if the recording space is being recreated as well.

Very analog.  

 

About 25 hours now and it's a keeper.  The only downer is the stock knobs are frumpy.  I added guitar amp knobs.  They're beautiful.  View my virtual system for a peek.  

new

old

Larger images are in the virtual system view.

True color is satin aluminum, inbetween my flash blue and the stock photo sepia.

@wlutke - would you mind posting an update on the AM?  Possibly looking into buying. Thanks. 

@wlutke not to digress too much but curious to know if your prior Orchid dac had the stock coupling caps in it from MHDT, or if they were upgraded?  Reason for the question is the stock caps are fairly smoothed over. Nice, yet can be optimized notably.  Several colleagues and I upgraded Orchid dacs with really nice caps and other tube options. Achieved an increase in sound stage size, width and depth, nice tone, texture, and retaining gentle detail. If you still have your Orchid it can be a keeper too fwiw. Enjoy the new dac! 

@chayro 

My experience is limited to my original post but I'll try.  

The AM recently opened up, bringing more feel to the venue. Powerful below 30 Hz or so (compared to the Orchid.)

A big factor in choosing this DAC (by reputation) was electric guitar glare.  That's been taken care of - on Spotify.  I'm just now giving Tidal a try.  One session so far.  Some songs were Very Good, some were meh, some were too hot on top - Is Tidal revealing the recording or the DAC or the streamer?  Too early to tell.  I'm giving Tidal, me and the DAC more time for the dust to settle and reality sink in.  Streamer next, I think.

@decooney 

Thanks for the heads up. I've tube rolled the Orchid including 6922 family to some effect.  Per my last post the biggest reason for moving on from the Orchid was predominant glare.  How is your output cap mod in that area?  It would be an absolute long time keeper for me (second system.)  Love the musicality.

Nice thank you for your impressions. 

@wlutke @decooney Thanks for the heads up. I’ve tube rolled the Orchid including 6922 family to some effect. Per my last post the biggest reason for moving on from the Orchid was predominant glare. How is your output cap mod in that area? It would be an absolute long time keeper for me (second system.) Love the musicality.

 

While its all "system & speaker dependent" and varies by individual and rooms of course...Three things I found with Orchid. Mine is very sensitive to input cables/types used. Results can vary greatly. Tried all, prefer high quality digi-coax with this dac. Using Analysis Plus Crystal or Cardas Digital. As for tubes, the Telsa 6CC42/2C51 was a great midway tube, smooth. My favorite in this dac, as I have an all tube system. May vary for those with SS preamps/amps. Tried two highly acclaimed (many like them) Western Electric 6CC42/2C51s, even smoother, a bit too much so for my taste in my system, speakers. Back to Tesla as my preference. Nice balance. Liked it so much may have a fully custom dac built next year, as tbd.

As for coupling cap upgrades in this dac, yes, it makes a rewarding difference. The stock MHDT caps are plenty good as-is for 95% of the people out there. I went with familiar top shelf Mundorf Silver Gold Oil caps in mine, and so did a few friends. Definitely picked up nice tone, texture, expanded sound stage. Rewarding results, yes. A long break-in and forming with these caps before they settle in, heads-up. Can be aggravating first 1-50hrs, better at 100hrs. Totally worth it once they form and settle. 

@decooney 

Thanks.  Cutting to the chase, do you think all things being equal (room, cabling, source, gear, music, listener) will the caps eliminate glare from the Orchid when glare is not apparent with the AM or with analog?  Would be a must have for me.

@wlutke would be so hard to advise on this not seeing or hearing your system. The factory caps are good too, and I did not experience glare with my Orchid in stock form before upgrading the tube and caps.

btw, Are your speakers toed in or faced perfectly straight forward? How big is the room?

The speakers and room sound fine with analog and the AM.  It’s the Orchid.  Sounds like your tube gear has a necessary synergy, 

@wlutke are you utilizing the exact same digital input and output cables on the AM dac as you did with your Orchid - in other words did one cable/type change by chance?

Also did you ever try the other Tesla -or- Western Electric optional/recommended tubes in your Orchid dac?

The reason for asking is friends across forums shared notes about MHDT Orchid and Pagoda DAC findings with particular cables and tubes to fine tune results even more. Of those half changed caps to get even more out of the dac.

 

Nothing changed out but the DAC.  Had the GE.  Have Millard installed.  Have used the Orchid with tube pre (Herron).  Now Have Luxman integrated.   Have tried cables.  It’s a good DAC for the money,  Has glare though.

@wlutke Got it. And, so it appears you’ve not tried the other factory prescribed tubes (Tesla 6CC42 or Western Electric WE396/2C51) for the dac many have found to gel well the Orchid and no glare. The standard non-triple mica GE 5670 tube in that dac can be bright or seem like glare in detailed systems. Not sure which Mullard you are referring to - - unless you’re running some kind of 6922 adapter which can lead to other voltage issues in that dac. I have 6 friends with MHDT Orchid dacs, none report issues with glare. Its a soft analog sounding Philips TDA1541 r2r ladder dac chip in there too. Pretty mild in my system and friends too. Something else going on there I would suspect. Best of luck.

@decooney 

Sounds like you and your six friends have fallen for the  Orchid.  I'm falling for the AM.  Best wishes on your audio journey.

@wlutke hehe, unfortunately not totally the case. It’s one of many dacs in a stable each of us keep. I’m back down to 2 dacs and some other colleagues keep 4-5 around. Might be a sign each of these dacs offer something different to rotate in occasionally, or likely cases of hoarding the good ones, haha. Enjoy the AM dac in your stable :)

They're Coming to Take Me Away, Ha-Haaa!  

We now return to our regular programming.  AM

 

 

I’ll second wlutke’s impression of the AM Tubadour se lV. Initially I went from a Lumin D1 with an SBooster power supply to the Tubadour se lll. That was a huge upgrade! The se lll had much more clarity, detail, texture and timbre. A couple of months ago I sent it back to Vlad to upgrade to the se lV. This was definitely worth it. I have a depth and dimensionality to the soundstage that I’ve never had before. The detail is even better without any edginess. There is a slight warmth to the presentation that tempers the metal tweeters on my Totem Forest Signatures. I am super happy with this dac and have no plan to be looking for anything else.

have the IIISE now, planning to upgrade to IV. I’ve never heard an Orchid, but I heard similar, from a friend who moved from a hotrodded Orchid to the Tubador. he didn’t go back to the Orchid but now has a IV.

one thing I’ve found w all DACs including the Tubador, is that how you feed the DAC, cabling, streamer and DDC can radically improve the output SQ.

the IV has an internal DDC which is a huge selling point for me, less cables and 1 less box.

Fun fact- I was using a Western Digital hard drive (wall wart), feeding the streamer or Nova directly and when I switched to a LaCie USB powered hard drive, I experienced a SQ uptick, similar to adding a DDC into the system.

So removing the extra power signature from the system was huge, even with the DDC in system. I didn’t expect that.

I changed from some $600 retail Analysis Plus XLR to DH Labs Revelation XLR between DAC and BHK preamp / Audio Art RCA w the Naim Nova and got another uptick in top end clarity/ detail.

Adding a power conditioner into the system, yielded another uptick..

Switching from Lumin U1 Mini to Innuos Zem MKIII.. *uptick*.

Next, I started to seriously address room treatments and yep, another uptick. . .

I guess why I included all this is to say that what you feed your DAC, what it’s connected to and the room it’s playing into can wildly affect SQ and the performance (perception) of your gear.

Before this, I was just switching gear out and ran through so many pieces, without ever paying attention to the above. It wasn’t until I got a handle on the ’system’ basics that it all started to come together for me- ymmv.

Update:

It's been four months and a couple things of note have happened.  

A Lumin U2 mini replaced the BS Node/Sbooster for streaming duty.  It's quiet, dynamic and grain free.

A NOS Telefunken E88CC in the Tubadour.  I don't know the vintage and whatnot but it is gold pin, diamond bottom and the ink is chalk dust that rubs off.  The Gawd-awful Russian 6h23n stock tube is suitable for target practice only.  Seriously, I want to shoot it.  What a bottleneck.

The DAC/streamer combo has a smooth, pure top end, a generous amount of the famous Telefunken midrange magic and a natural and cohesive stage. Music flows.  Listening is a joy for hours on end.  

Easily bettered by my best LP's. Average LP's bettered by my best digital (Tidal CD/MQA and FLAC radio sources).  

@wlutke 

I’ve never done any tube rolling. Was it an easy swap to put in the Telefunken tube?

@wlutke 

It’s great to hear that you’re getting more than expected from your Tubadour IV- and old Tele’s are the way to go in NOS DAC’s. I use the same in my Aqua La Scala. I’ve always followed other’s experiences with these DAC’s as they seem to be great performers. I also appreciate your decision to get rid of the original knobs! 

@scthom 

It’s simple.  Just remove the top plate, unplug the old tube, plug in the new.  That’s it.  No bias adjust or anything.
 

@designsfx
Had to!

@wlutke 

Thanks, I appreciate the advice.

@wlutke 

Do you like the U2 Mini App?

Do you prefer it over BLOS?

@ericsch ,

Honestly I hated the app at first.  My first impressions:

Intuitive it is not.  

Extra steps a few.  

Frustrating it is.  
For instance, on first fire up the control panel popped up, grayed out and unresponsive.  There are four inconspicuous icons with no text, not highlighted and containing  the symbols for Tidal, Quobuz, Spotify and Intune radio.  If you’re not familiar with those symbols too bad. Push the appropriate button and it’s time to play.  Or is it?  Radio FLAC stations pop right up with the radio button.  Some encouragement there, at least it’s not bricked.  Want to add stations?  Go to the Intune site, set up a free account, favorite some stations.  Go back to the Lumin, select the utilities menu, select options, select internet radio setting, select update radio channels.  Next.

Want Tidal for instance?  Push the button, sign in and you’re gold.  Or are you?  Find your Tidal playlists under My Music, Playlists, then pick your list.  You’ll find yourself back at the start page, which shows your selected playlist on the right (now called a “song list”) and an empty “playlist” on the left where the on deck tracks go.  Super!  Touch a track on the right, it transfers to the left and plays.  Hallelujah!  One track and stops.  Clear the playlist (left side) with the trash can icon. So how to populate the entire song list on the right  to the playlist on the left?  Go to utilities, choose song list double tap.  Then back to the song list (right side)  and highlight each song using a single tap.   A row of icons appears below the selected tracks.  Push the first one on the left.  Scroll the next set of songs and repeat.  When  all songs are transferred to the playlist (left side), go to the left side icons at the bottom.  Touch the second icon to create a new playlist and name it.  The list will be saved.  Don’t look for it anywhere but here.  The music note icon will bring it up again.  All lists will be saved here so do it one time and never again, thankfully.  Things get simple at that point.  All the extra work is done.  Radio stations access via the radio icon and saved Tidal lists access through the music icon, all on the same page.  
Ok, that sounds nightmarish but the truth is it’s only a couple of unfamiliar operations to learn, no worse than my first look at Bluesound.   The difference is a baby can figure out Bluesound, it takes time to realize Lumin.  They’re equally. convenient once you know the ropes.  Takes a few days.  

 

Thanks for your detailed response, much appreciated.

Update on playlists.  
With Tidal Connect and Spotify Connect enabled in the Lumin, those individual apps will stream direct from their server to the mini.  Just choose the U2 mini as player.  No need to create a Lumin playlist.  

the best tube setup in a well modded mhdt orchid output buffer stage i have found is an amperex dutch ecc88 a-frame tube (o ring getter bugle boys are very close equivalents) using a garage 1217 6dj8 to 5670 pin adapter -- lovely spatial cues and subtle rendition of detail

for even greater detail old stock german siemens, philips, or hungarian tungsram tube can be used in that position - that is the fun of the tube output dacs... roll your own sonic flavor!!!