Focal Kanta 2 and CODA 16 amp

I doubt that the brightness is coming from the Coda.  I have a Coda Continuum No 8 V1 paired with a Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL preamp (tube) and it works great.  It has a theatre pass through, but no balanced outputs.

I use my amp for two channel and home theatre, but I'm more like 90 percent two channel and ten percent home theatre. 

Given the rest of your system it really looks like it’s a characteristic of the speakers you’re hearing (obviously along with the inherent quality of the recordings).  If I was you the first thing I’d try is a Stack Audio SmoothLan filter given it’s simplicity, low  cost, return policy, and that many here have found it to remove some edge/glare from their digital signal.  Next I’d do a trial of a Snake River power cable to the Backert.  But frankly I think it’s mainly the speakers (and recordings) you’re hearing and as such are now having to jump through hoops to accommodate them.  Just my $0.02 FWIW, and best of luck.

I agree that recordings play a part, as some music is tougher to listen to, but the only thing that changed was the amp so it would seem a likely culprit.  I have Snake River power cables to my amplifiers, and will move one to the Backert to see the impact.  Thanks.

But the Coda is not a bright sounding amp and your speakers are, so IMO you’re now just hearing more of your speaker’s inherent characteristics (along with several of the other significant benefits the Coda is providing) after swapping out the more colored/veiled Mac amp and hence why you’re now hearing more clarity and openness.  How you choose to tame their brightness be it through amp, pre, etc. is obviously up to you, but I would not blame the Coda here. 

@soix , fair enough.  The Coda is presenting more than was available before.  Thus, overall, the upgrade has brought good news and not so good news.  Btw, re: the SmoothLan, I have a Muon Pro network filter in the chain.  At this point, while I'm swapping power cables, I might as well swap the Muon and the Eno2 in my home theatre setup to see if there is a difference.  Thanks,

Robert

Robert, I'm a Focal owner so maybe I can help.  It's widely accepted that Mac gear is polite and rolls off the highs.  I'm not familiar with your amp but it sounds like it's giving you a full presentation of the highs.

Focals have accurate tweeters and are very sensitive to directivity.  Not so much toe in/out but rake.  Try setting them up with minimal toe in and increase the backwards rake.  So instead of having the spikes or footers an equal height off the floor, make the front spikes a little longer.  Play with this and you should find that it smooths out the HFs.  The added bonus is that it should add height to your sound stage.  Good luck and cheers.

@rick_n , I read your suggestion elsewhere and thought it worthwhile.  I have the speakers on IsoAcoustic footers and they are aimed as high as I can get them; it helped.  I've played with toe in versus straight ahead and it makes a subtle but not big difference, but every positive step is a win.  Thanks.

I am coming to accept and understand that the Coda is doing what a high quality amp should: present ALL the music.  My dilemma is whether I want to hear it all, or sacrifice some highs towards a more relaxed sound.

So Meitner into Backert with AZ Absolute Copper and cardas into Coda?

Meitner is not bright. Coda isn’t either. Nit familiar with Backert sound. But your equipment is basically passing all the information to your speakers. The Focals have a be tweeter that’s known to present an issue for some listeners. Your McIntosh amp was homogenizing all recordings and created a sense of smoothness in high frequencoes. Coda is transparent, fast and articulate.
If I were you I’d look into replacing the Focals. Otherwise sell coda.
 

Oh and other suggestion….try Meitner direct into coda using AZ interconnects. If you are running Backert into Coda balanced it may not be ideal match. Worth a shot  also worth trying backert into coda using RCA interconnects

One more thought, make sure your speakers are positioned so that you don't have a dip in the upper-mid bass.  If you have this it will make the HF appear more apparent.  FWIW the Hegel H30A drives my Sopras with no sharpness.  

Looking at your system the stands and vibration control feet raise the speakers quiet a bit. It could bs a problem considering where the tweeter is located 

When I placed the speakers initially with no height adjustments, the tweeters were pointed directly at my head.  Break-in helped considerably, but adding the footers and aiming the fronts high got the tweeters pointing over my head, which was better.  It's easy enough to go through height adjustments again to check results.

After the Meitner upgrade to 3i, I tried streaming directly to the preamp but I felt the combo of Aurender N200 plus Meitner was better than Meitner alone.  I did not try using Meitner as preamp and bypassing Backert, certainly interested to see what impact that has.

I consulted with Backert and Andy suggested trying a different tube, which I just ordered.  He's sending me a pair of interconnects he's had success with to calm sharpness, will also give that a whirl.  Then, of course, replacing the Coda or the speakers is always an option, albeit a costly one (especially the latter).  Not there yet.

Thanks for the feedback,

Robert

Focals dint do well pointed at your head.  Start with no toe i an increase slightly until center fills in.  if it won't,  they are too far apart

I've tried a number of different tubes in my preamps.  I'm doing some tube swapping this evening.  There are definitely tubes that are less bright. 

Same is true of some of my interconnects. It's worth a shot. 

I'm pretty confident that the Coda isn't the issue. What amp would you get that has a mellow top end?  That's not the approach that I would take. 

I really dig Meitner direct using its preamp section. I set the input on my Boulder 866 integrated to a theather mode and just use meitner volume control. 
For me the streaming using Meitner in-built network card sounded a bit more lively than using the N200. Difference was negligible and I felt that the N200 isn’t adding any value so I sold it. Got a good Ethernet cable and it’s smooth as butter when streaming. 

I’m not a Kanta 2 owner, but have chased some brightness out of my system.  If the amp was new, any chance that the treble will smooth out with more hours on it?  

Other options to try (some mentioned):

• preamp tube rolling  (Mullard CV4004 worked well for me)
• cable/speaker wire change (copper replaced silver)
• felt trim rings around the tweeters (cheap, easy, effective, and reversible)
• I replaced cheap connectors with pure copper and that helped too

I have Focals and agree the setup is important to realize the benefits without being fatiguing.  I didn’t audition Coda but I actually moved from Mc to Luxman monos to improve detail/clarity without the harshness I found with several other comparably priced SS amps.  Coda is certainly a great quality product.  Before considering a change I would offer a couple of suggestions.  

1) First refections are always important but especially with Focals.

2) I don’t have experiece with Audience speaker cables but consider Cardas Clear Reflections.  Typically a great fit with Focals.

3) Same comment on pc’s and interconnects.  Clear Reflections may be better fit than Cardas Clear for example.  (Also lower price option, sacrilege I know!)

4) I would not consider positioning speakers way off axis a good fix.

5) I found material benefits from speaker isolation, in my case Townshend Platforms. 

Hope some of this may help, good luck...

I second the notion of running internet directly into the Meitner and then the Meitner directly into the Coda.  You might be surprised how much cleaner, smoother and more detailed your system sounds.  If you can't run it this way full time, it could give you a benchmark.  I also second the notion of experimenting with speaker placement.  Your system is excellent and has tremendous potential, but the little things will make all the difference such as speaker placement, clean power, and room treatment. Tuning your room is vital to a system the quality of yours. You may also want to experiment with using pillows, blankets, and other similar household items to see if they make a difference.  If they do, you could develop a more permanent room treatment option.  Finally, you could consider trying some other speaker cables, like some Clears, if you can try some with a return option.   If none of these ideas work, maybe then consider changing speakers.

I have the Coda 16 and I have it paired with Legacy Audio Signature SE speakers. The preamps I have use were the Coda 07x and currently the Don Sachs-Lynn Olsen Spatial Audio preamp. I have a Holo May KTE Dac  and Aurender N20 streamer. The Coda has never been what I would call bright in my system but it did smooth out a lot over time. Not sure how many hours you have but I would give it 200 to 300 anyway. My room is also well treated. I know the Focals high end is pretty revealing. Anyway if you consider changing speakers you might look at the Legacy. Before you do be sure you give the 16 plenty of hours. 

I appreciate the feedback and suggestions from everyone.  It's discouraging to upgrade (e.g., spend good $$$) then find the "solution" presented new issues to overcome.  Oh well.  In hindsight it would appear the McIntosh masked some problems in my system and room.  The Coda, OTOH, is bringing a great deal more to the table but is causing me to now address some of the problems to make my ears happy.

Back when I started upgrading my home theatre to play quality audio, I was encouraged by the Agon community to use a preamp, rather than my HT processor, to squeeze the best sound from the system. I took a few tentative steps then went for my Backert.  I am happy with it, as it adds a presence, smoothness and pizzazz that was absent before.  Tubes mold the sound and it’s great to have ability to change a tube and alter the sound.  In addition to a new tube that is en route, removing the preamp from the chain altogether by using the preamp section of my DAC has been added to the (growing) list of things to try.  The thought of bypassing a major investment really hurts, but is worthy of experimentation. 

My room is a shared space (my wife’s daytime office).  There is too much furniture in the wrong places limiting placement of speakers, 3 windows, 2 doors, it's slightly L shaped, large framed posters on the walls, listening position slightly off center… hardly ideal.  I reached out to one of the acoustic panel companies, sent them pics, await their feedback and recommendations on room treatments.  In the meantime, I placed a heavy throw over the TV between the speakers, which helped focus sound a bit; balanced a poster with a towel draped over it on the back of the chair near the first reflection point on one side, and suspended a heavy towel from the curtain rod over the window on the other side.  Those trials made a marginal positive difference.  More trial and error, outside guidance and proper room treatments will no doubt help.

I’ve tried various combinations of cables.  Had a loom of Audience Front Row IC’s, speaker cables, USB and ethernet.  The IC’s in combo were too much of a good thing, sold them.  I tried various other speaker cables and the Front Rows, to my surprise, have risen above the others for all around good sound: not too much on the top, solid mids and plenty of oomph in the bass.  Surprising from such a skinny cable.  I have Cardas Cygnus for my home theatre connections and they are good.  Tried Reflection IC’s and they were OK, but not keepers.  The Reflection speaker cable ran a poor second to the Audience, a real disappointment.  Bumped up to the Clear IC’s and they have been good in the mix.  Acoustic Zen IC's are a recent addition and they helped tame some edge.  There is no shortage of cables and manufacturers, but it requires patience to wade through them, a trait that often eludes me.  Plus, my music memory stinks, so A-B trials, especially with time in between, is a lesson in frustration.

Focal’s documentation states it best to aim the speakers towards the listener as part of an equilateral triangle.  I’ve aimed high and low, straight to the back wall, toed out and toed in, and there are subtle changes.  Currently I am slightly toed in, but it’s easy enough to play with that again.  Unfortunately, I’m wearing off the polish on the hardwood floor below them with the changes, but such is life in the fast audio lane.

Per a suggestion above, I swapped XLR for RCA cables from preamp to amp and there was a surprising (and welcome) improvement.  Thanks @audphile1 !  I managed to get hold of Mr. Coda and he said the XLR connection adds 3db of gain.  My preamp also adds gain, so having less of it calmed things considerably.  After a conversation with Backert, I will likely send them my preamp to have the gain dialed back, to provide more gradations, or steps, in volume adjustment.  The Coda provides quite a wallop, more than I experienced with any amp before it, and the ability to have finer control of the volume will be a big asset.

Lots to do, lots to try.  Thanks again for the support.

Robert

Yep I expected things to sound better using RCAs. It’s not uncommon believe it or not. One other suggestion before you send Backert out…back the volume on the Meitner down 3 to 97. See if it smoothes things out with xlr cables all around. If you still prefer single ended into coda just keep that configuration. No need to mod the backert. You may prefer single ended into coda even after backert gain reduction. Don’t waste your money. Trust your ears. 
As to FrontRow cables…didn’t like the XLRs, didn’t like the USB. Love the speaker cables! They’re really hard to beat. 
 

Waiting for you to try Meitner direct into amp. I’m pretty sure you will be surprised 

@backdoor , the Coda is previously owned (used), so I presume it has its internal kinks worked out.  I suspect it's seen 200 hours in my space, so perhaps it needs more time acclimatizing and adjusting to my part of the world.  Given its loyal following and good reviews, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt and wait.

My first speaker rodeo after 20 yrs with my original HT setup was with Focal Aria 926, which I really like.  When I thought about upgrades, I emailed with someone who had the 936, a bigger and purportedly much better version of mine.  He was selling the 936s, had moved to the Legacy and never looked back.  If I find the speakers are the culprit here, or get the itch to do something silly and move on, the Legacy and Sonus Fabers are on the list to investigate.  Thanks.

@audphile1 Duh!  I keep the Meitner volume on 100 because that is the pass-through setting. When I'm away from home for more than a few days I turn off all the equipment just in case. I come back, turn the equipment on, then wonder why the volume isn't half what it was before I left.  The Meitner is programmed to set its volume level back to a low level when the power is turned off then back on, and I have to remember to turn it up again to the pass-through setting of 100.

Dialing the volume back a few steps is such an easy fix.  Thanks again!

Yep I’ve mumbled “wtf” many times after power outage or after turning it off for few days. Volume 50 is a safety net. It’s about where you will be running it direct into amp for normal listening.
 

For the MA3i upgrade they upped the output voltage. Amadeus mentioned it to me when I spoke with him. The 97 on volume control is about where the MA3 was (according to me). It may chill things a bit. Try. 
 

I gave the lower volume trick a whirl and it was a big success, enough so that I think it unnecessary to send the preamp to Backert to adjust the gain.  I've fiddled with it and 80 is a good measure where instead of 2 clicks on the Backert remote (or the dial if I get off my butt) now requires 4 or 5, which provides finer adjustments and help control the overall sound.  I'll ratchet back to, say, 70 and see what that brings (away for a few days, that trial will have to wait).  What a great fix, and thanks for that.  New tubes and interconnects are coming next week, eager to see if they help.  If not... I'm preparing Plan B.  Thanks for the support,

Robert

Great hear it helped!
Try different volume levels on the Meitner and see what matches the backert best for your system. Amplifier is a major factor in the sound of a system and I’m not surprised to see additional changes as a domino effect. You’re on the right track though.