Kudos also must be given to Abba for refusing to rejoin even with the stratospheric amount of wonga they were reported to have been offered.
Shame some of the geriatric old fart bands did not retire when their time was up, then again if stuck in a time capsule old farts continue to buy old shit, why not bring out a greatest hits volume 38?
The UK also moves with the times when it comes to music, and generally people (especially the one young's) do not give a rats ass anymore about old farty bands such as Zep, Floyd, Beatles etc etc.
I was given a boxed set of complete Beatles 45's
I have never forgiven that person for it! |
Mac,
Like 'em or not, the LOWEST sales number commonly cited for global ABBA sales is 150 million units worldwide. That figure is generally used to debunk the 300 plus million plus that's often thrown around, so the real figure is almost certainly higher than 150,000,000. It seems that there is confusion because the record keeping for album sales isn't exactly a precise science, but ABBA appears to be, by all of the counts that I've seen, one of the top dozen selling bands (excluding solo artists) ever. Given that the band released all of 8 albums, it's hard to argue with their commercial success.
If pure pop ear candy ain't your thing, I can see why you'd dismiss them outright. OTOH, some people love that kind of thing and others (including me) find it fun in (very) limited doses. ABBA may or may not suck (depending on your tastes), but they certainly sold a sh*tload of records.
Marty |
Thanks for the link to The Plant. I remember Elvin Bishop from the Paul Butterfield Blues Band. When he went on his own he was a regular in San Francisco. One place where he played alot was just off Union St. called The Cock's Inn. He always drew a big crowd and there was no cover charge.
There was a lot of good entertainment back in those days. |
Arctic Monkeys,now there's some future hall of famers!!!!! |
Gawdbless, where does that number for ABBA come from?Searching the net I only come up with a Wikipedia article that looks relavant, and among the biggest selling acts, they by far have the smallest verified sales (49 mil), with a "reputed" sales number of 300 - 370.
But my point was that they were every where in the US in th 70's and 80's and did sell a lot of records in North America (12 mil), but they were not as popular here as they were overseas.
My contention is because we thought, and still do, that they sucked.
As far as the RAH in London, let's not get too excited about the musical taste of residents of the UK. Although they have produced the greatest Rock acts of all time, they don't seem to respect them. I read a few years ago that an Arctic Monkeys album was voted best of all time, with many Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin and Pink Floyd albums way down the list.
Very disturbing.
Abba still sucks. |
Mac- I think 375 million albums plus 2m to 3m per year is more than a few,lol.
When they were giging and were doing a few gigs at the Royal Albert Hall they could have filled the Royal Albert Hall out for a whole year+ with their ticket sales. |
Best band ever ? That's funny. |
Again (and at the risk of beating that horse one more time),
The studio work was pure Buckingham. He was well known (maybe notorious is a better word) for his obssessive (hour burning) behavior. Both "Out of the Cradle" and "Under The Skin" are REALLY remarkable in this respect. Both, and particularly the latter, are a million miles from audiophile style, but a masterpiece of studio work.
Marty |
You gotta go stand outside The Plant and transport your mind back to 1976. Feel the vibe although the place wasn't in the best shape (shabby chic perhaps) last time I was there. There were some old couches and chairs outside in the rain. No, I didn't look under the cushions for illicit things. http://www.plantstudios.com/ |
Neilspeed, Fleetwood Mac was not afraid to spend time in the recording studio to get perfection. Recording studios charge by the hour and it was understood Fleetwood Mac's last few albums were extremely expensive to record. It is no wonder the sound quality is good. Besides, they were recording in analogue with some great recording engineers. Engineering analogue is truly an art as is evidenced in your comparison with SACD. |
Neilspeed,
Did you live in North America in the 70's or early 80's? I'm guessing you did not, because ABBA was everywhere, and I do belive that they actually sold quite a few albums.
The reason they did not do as well in North America as the rest of the world is in general we thought they sucked, as I think most of us still do.
|
As it says in my post - ABBA was not marketed here; thus, you would not have heard of them. It is true they were offerred $1 billion to reunite and they were a household name outside of America. Fleetwood Mac, for instance, was popular in America (a country) while ABBA was popular throughout most of the world. Type ABBA into your search engine and see what pops up.
By the way I like Fleetwood Mac and their Romours CD is better engineered than many of my SACDs.
Regards, |
I was living in the Bay Area in the 1960s and 70s. I enjoyed live music at the Carousel Ballroom/Fillmore West, Winterland, and the Avalon Ballroom in San Francisco, the Boat House in Sausalito, the Bodega in San Jose and many other places where good music was playing and I never heard of ABBA. |
I agree with some of the posts above - ABBA was the biggest and the best. They just were never marketed to Americans. |
Buff
"Say You Will"
and
Buckingham's "Gift of Screws"
are pretty sure to please you
They both bark up the tree you seem to prefer
Marty |
I forgot I had started this thread... lots of good opinions and recommendations. Good to see at least a few people hold them in as high a regard as I do. I've ordered copies of both Bare Trees and Mirage, and will continue to diverge from the triumverate of the late 70's until it's either too bluesy for me (in the direction of Bare Trees) or overly poppy and lacking emotion (in the direction of Mirage). I might not get far in either direction. |
The answer to the trivia question about DP and Abba is Frida sings on Beyond The Notes by Jon Lord of DP. She also sings on the live DVD. Both are excellent if you like classical and jazz.
[url]http://jonlord.org/2009/08/22/the-sun-will-shine-again-live/[/url] |
Sometime the early nineties I saw Fleetwood Mac and Lidsey Buckingham was not with them but he was replaced with two other guitarists (I do not remember who) and the two of them could not match what he did alone on any album. It was a boring show. A few months later I saw Lindsay by himself in concert and I swear he was better than Fleetwood Mac without him, it was a very lively show with much artistry. Fleetwood Mac just phoned it in (it seems) in comparison. Really too bad I missed them with LB. |
Don't know about Abba and Deep Purple but I just remembered that Dave Mason had the proverbial "cup of coffee" with Fleetwood Mac in 1993 or so. One more guitar notch on the band's bedpost.
Also, the band does have some interesting (and unexpected) fans. Radiohead has been pretty vocal (and did that USC marching band tribute at the Grammy's on the 30th anniversary of the "Tusk" release) and Matthew Sweet - guitar connoisseur extrordinaire - once referred to LB in his liner notes as "a rock god with the power of Zeuss in his fingertips").
Marty |
His 'Lord'ship and a redhead. |
Here's a bit of useless trivia. Link Deep Purple and Abba. |
Rrog,
I don't know about a sin, and I actually like Abba for what they are, but I was thinking something similar. If you listen past the hits, a fair bit of (Buckingham's solo and) Fleetwood Mac music sounds much, much closer to Led Zep than to Abba.
Marty |
Macdadtexas, Agreed! Abba? Cool? I don't think so.
Discussing Fleetwood Mac and Abba on the same forum is a sin. |
I saw Fleetwood Mac live when Billy Barnette was filling in and he was very good. He comes from a musical family. His uncle was Johnny Burnette.
Rick Vito plays on Mick Fleetwood Blues Band. |
They're cool..no worries. |
Abba's cool. Even members of Metallica like them. I don't know if that makes 'em cool but I think they are. |
Okay,...Abba.
Long dormant (and possibly substance addled) brain cells seem to recall a(n early '80s?) double Abba Live album with an extended guitar solo during "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, A Man After Midnight". Might have been pretty rockin'. Anyone else recall this one or did I hallucinate it?
Marty |
I love this thread!!
G-Bless and Mapman, you guys are hilar-e-ous!
I hate Abba!! I hated Abba as a kid, I hated them as teenager, I hated them as a young adult, I hated them as an adult, and middle age is not changing my opinion!!
I do love all of the iterations of Fleetwood Mac, for some reason, but I won't admit in person. |
How about a Broadway show based on the music of Fleetwood Mac called "Go Your Own Way" perhaps to challenge "Mamma Mia"?
The story could cover all the personnel changes and romantic flings between band members using various FM tunes. Starring Catherine McPhee as Stevie Nicks and Fergie as Christine McVie? Ba-da-bing! Also Mick Foley as Mick Fleetwood and Lindsey Buckingham as ... himself. |
Mac- if you think that little scouser band are pop, then I want some of what you are taking.lol
Abba appeal to a very wide age group, even my very aged grandmother would get up on the table to dance when Mama Mia was being played. |
My favorites were Kiln House, Black Magic Woman, and Mystery to Me. My ex-girlfriend got the first and college roommate got the last 2. |
RW,
I knew someone would ID the final guitars and you're absolutely right about Vito - he can play.
As to Buckingham's "primative" admission; he wasn't using it to describe his playing abilities. For reasons of his own, LB has deliberately decided not to learn to read music. That is indeed primative in a sense, but don't confuse that with his technique, which is anything but.
Marty |
The stand-ins were Billy Burnette and the great Rick Vito. Vito is a super player in his own right and a slide player extraordinaire. He has played with Bob Segar(slide on Like a Rock)Bonnie Raitt, Jackson Browne etc.
As a huge fan of the original Peter Green's FM I can say I appreciate almost every incarnation of the band. LB is a great guitarist in my book. Although he admits to being very primitive in his abilities, he knows how to get the best out of what he knows. |
Okay, we've had the shout out for Peter Green, Danny Kirwan, Lindsey Buckingham, and now Bob Welch.
So, to finish the cycle, I'll mention that Jeremy Spencer just released his first album, "Precious Little", in over 25 years. Amazingly enough, it's actually pretty good and worth checking out. FWIW, "Guitar Player" magazine called it (IIRC) the best comeback record in the last 30 years. Fleetwood Mac has certainly had some guitar talent move through the rotating door over the years, hasn't it?
Neil Heywood (a pretty fair player, himself) was the "offstage" guitar on the last tour and in the late '90s, when Buckingham quit, the band toured with a couple of stand-ins. If someone can identify those two, I think we'll have name checked anyone who ever strummed a chord for Fleetwood Mac.
Marty
At the end of the day, though, if forced to choose, I'd still take Lindsey Buckingham's catalog over that of anyone else (Beatles expressly included) mentioned in this thread. Just my preference - I love the tunes from a lot of these folks, but you can't beat the pickin' of LB and Fleetwood Mac. |
I agree and listen to Welch's solo albums as well! |
I hate to admit but I liked the stuff Bob Welch wrote... |
Check out the Mick Fleetwood Blues Band. You will hear a lot of their earlier songs including "Black Magic Woman" which was an original Fleetwood Mac song. |
The "little band from Liverpool"....I would not quite classify them as "Pop"....how about the ones who helped define rock and roll, acid rock, and yes, pop rock and others. Arguably, the greatest band ever. Just listen to the diversity of Abbey Road, Sgt. Peppers, The White ALbum, Revolver, and Rubber Soul. What other group has produced, written, arranged, and created that much. Fleetwood Mac was great, but not nearly as prolific, and diverse in musical style. Agreed, the band form Liverpool should be checked out....Thoroughly....Jallen |
ABBA? ABBA? ABBA?? They are not even the best pop band from Sweden.
Styx wasn't good, I'll give you that, but Abba? Really, Abba the best pop band ever?
Dude, plug in your copy of Mamma Mia and have another glass of whatever you are drinking.
There is this little band from Liverpool, it's in England. You should check them out.
Fleetwood Mac the best pop band ever, what have you guys been smoking? |
One more note:
Buckingham's "Live at Bass Performance Hall" is an outright spectaculat CD/DVD set and Fleetwood Mac's "Live in Boston" (also CD/DVD) is just a notch behind it.
Marty |
I acquired my appreciation for Lindsey Buckingham's talent and key role in later FM when I first saw their live "The Dance" concert performance on DVD. He is a true musical dynamo on guitar!
FM has always been a very up and down band to me. Fantastic one moment, disappointing the next. They've always been that way as best I can tell. I have their 4 disc box set which is a nice but imperfect sampling. Even there, the ups are way up but there are a few tunes I find myself skipping through. |
I'll nominate the Buckingham/Nicks version of Fleetwood Mac as as a finalist for Best Rock Band Ever. The original Mac was a very good, though maddeningly inconsistent blues rock band that had some truly great moments. And many more not-so-great moments.
Just MHO, (and I know I'm in the minority here, so save the invective) but LB writes pop/rock tunes (though not lyrics) as well as anyone - including Brian Wilson or Lennon and Macca. The vocal harmonies are often masterful and the production values rival just about anyone's. "Go Your Own Way" is, again, JMO, at the top of the list of classic r'n'r songs and there are TONS of others that are right up there.
Buckingham is also in my list of top 5 guitarists and -for my money- that separates his stuff from any of the other top tier songwriters (Richard Thompson excepted, but that's a different kind of songwriter).
BTW, Peter Green, as fine a player as he is/was, and despite his interesting hardware and the resultant interesting tone, cannot touch LB in my book. Take a listen to "I'm So Afraid" or "Come" to get a taste of Buckingham's electric style or "Big Love" (as great a display of right hand rhythmic ability as I've ever heard from a pop player) for his acoustic fingerpicking.
OTOH, you do have to wade through Stevie Nicks' and Christine McVie's contributions which are ....ahem...often less compelling.
To answer the OP's question - all of the LB solo albums are interesting. IMHO "Cradle" tops the list, followed by "Under The Skin" (although that one is not for every taste) and the most recent "Gift of Screws".
FM's "Tango" is a very good record, but "Say You Will" features LB at his absolute best. Great songs and just scorching guitar.
I know that most everyone here disagrees with the high esteem in which I hold this band, but that is my opinion, and it comes from someone who has spent WAY too much time thinking about this stuff. That fact doesn't make the opinion right, just carefully considered.
FWIW.
Marty |
"Live at the Boston Tea Party" is a fine 4 lp set. |
Agree with "Kiln House" and "Mirage." Very underrated efforts. Though you're not a huge fan of live albums, I'd check out "Live." It has great versions of the classics--recorded on the awesome "Tusk" tour, which I caught--as well as a few terrific songs recorded at soundchecks.
They may not be THE best band ever, but for me, they're certainly in the top five or ten. |
Stopped listening after Kiln House. That was their last enjoyable album for me. After that I did not like them at all. So IMO, they were a great band up till then, but there were many others just as great (to me). So no, not the best band ever (for me). |
"Then Play On" would be next for me.
Be aware that this is a totally different beast bearing the same name. The full version of "Oh Well" on there is a seldom heard classic and worth acquiring just for that, but the rest is worth it also.
Also Lindsay Buckingham's solo work "Out Of The Cradle" should appeal to fans of Fleetwood mac in their later prime. |
Abba could be possibly be the best 'pop' band, ever.
How could anyone mention Styx...........WHO?! in the same sentence as that truly super group Abba?
Abba have reportedly been offered $1 Billion Dollars to reform. Styx ain't worth a million Lira. |
Terrific albums until Nicks/Buckingham arrival and the 1975 "Fleetwood Mac" album.
At that point they morphed into a top 40 bubble gum band.
Sara.......... |
Tango in the Night is my fav of the new band, but from tyhe Peter Green days Future Games. |
I completely agree with Lloydc. They were not even close to being the best band ever. (I could easily name a hundred or so better bands.) I will readily admit that they were very successful, but then again, so was ABBA, Styx and other pop bands of that same time period.
IMHO, they were a decent, but not great, band, especially after the girls joined the group. (Before that they were not nearly as successful, but a much better band.)
Anyway, my two cents worth. |
