Flat speaker sound/preamp the culprit?/external EQ needed?

If its not a big glob of gunk on the stylus then its probably the phono stage. No amount of EQ ever gonna fix muddy. Better phono stage. Night and day.

You can try moving your speakers out from the back wall it will lower the bass and open the sound stage 
The iPhone is not powerful enough to drive the amp 
 Rogue Audio make some good stuff I had a Cronus Mag and have been to the factory they are a great bunch of guys too 
Which preamp do you have 

Enjoy the Music 
Tom

I would also check the cartridge setup. First- how old is it and what sort of cartridge. If a moving magnet, its common to see the cantilever suspension perish after about 3-4 years. After this time the cartridge can take on either a stringent sound (suspension hardened) or a muddy sound (suspension is melting). It does not matter how long you've used it- it matters how old it is and what sort of environment its in- for example the suspension is more likely to melt if tobacco smoke is common in the environment.


If the cartridge is newer it might simply be how the cartridge is aligned in the arm, and you might also check the loading of the cartridge (if the preamp is so equipped).

You may also have a feedback issue. Turntables can be very sensitive to this and need to be well isolated. Kind of like having a microphone too close to the speakers on a PA system. However, with turntables, instead of a squeal, the feedback is in the bass region. 

Some have found that placing the turntable on a shelf extended from the wall provides a better platform than having the turntable sit on a cabinet or shelf assembly that sits on the floor. 

Thanks all. The turntable and cartridge are barely six months old. My instinct based on this is that I need a better premp. Any recommendations? This is what I have currently:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IFMM7TC/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apip_tmPJ3BO59OKfL

Is the Rogue an integrated amp or a power amp?

What make/model of speakers do you have?

Where are they placed within the room?  Dimensions of the room?

Slow down we need more information. My first question is what model amp do you have with what power tubes? Is your NAD phono pre plugged into the AUX inputs or the PHONO inputs? What cartridge?

that is a phono pre amp what is your pre amp that controls the volume and input 
the Rogue RP1 pre amp would be a good match 

Is your NAD phono pre plugged into the AUX inputs or the PHONO inputs?

Ouch. That could be it. Line level into a phono stage would overload a lot and be truly awful. But I would hope he would not go out and buy a phono stage if he already has one... and then connect them together??!

"...But I would hope he would not go out and buy a phono stage if he already has one... and then connect them together??! ..."

It would not be the first time it was done.

I laugh at your comments @millercarbon but I'm not proud of it.  You are a sarcastic devil. LOL

Check your tracking weight. My guess is that the UTurn is picking up acoustic and situational feedback as others have stated. Try putting it on a paving slab. You could also add $30 Nobsound springs under the paving slab.

thanks for the comments all. i plugged the preamp into the aux input instead of phono and that has not made a difference. in response to one question, the only volume control is on the amp, not the preamp. 
if the problem is the low-cost preamp, does anyone have recommendations for a diff one? 
as for speaker placement, if that was the issue, wouldnt i hear it when i play the iphone too?

@ineedhelpwithcables From the link you posted I would consider a more expensive phono section, perhaps one with tubes.


This does not sound like a feedback issue to me.

@ineedhelpwithcables  You're not answering our questions, and without that basic information we can't help.

We need a precise description of your system, with make and model of each component, and how you're hooking it all up.

Do you have the MC/MM switch set correctly? plugged into the correct MC/MM connection? A high output MC would go into MM side (I think). 

I will check on MC MM issue.

Any recommendations for a better preamp below $400?

So this did it! I switched the preamp to MM and the muddiness went away. I looked up Uturn's website and all their cartridges are MM. 

Thank you all!

I would still be interested in preamp recommendations where you can adjust the bass, if such things exist.  Would the Schiit Loki do that? 

Glad we could help out. You don't need tone controls you need a better cartridge. 

what Rogue Audio amp do you have

Well done russ69. Sometimes it’s the least obvious or simplest of errors.

as for speaker placement, if that was the issue, wouldnt i hear it when i play the iphone too?

Not necessarily if it was an acoustic feedback or turntable-based issue.

Hi tomstruck its a tempest.

this is my turntable catridge:
https://uturnaudio.com/products/ortofon-2m-red

Rogue Audio Tempest is a integrated Amp have you tried the phono input without phono pre amp it will run a MM 

"...Rogue Audio Tempest is a integrated Amp have you tried the phono input without phono pre amp it will run a MM..."

Good call, it's always worth trying, you might like one better than the other.  

From what I can see online (Rogue Owner's Manuals) the Tempest & Tempest II do not feature an internal phono circuit, just a line level input labeled as such?

While not familiar with the U-Turn tonearm specifically, cartridges do respond tonally to differences/adjustments of Vertical Tracking Force. On some systems, tracking force can vary dramatically when measured at distances other than actual record level.

Given the Ortofon 2M Red recommends a VTF of 1.8 grams + or - .2 grams, you may try lightening a bit. Treat the counterweight like an old-school single knob electronic tone control where less weight accentuates the highs and conversely, more weight emphasizes bass. Adjust to where it sounds right on your system.