Eldon
A quick search has me puzzled when I found this post of yours in the forums:
03-24-01: Eldon
I do modifications to the Sony's. I replace the carbon resistors with vishays, the film caps with REL caps and I
insteal HEXFREDS and Black Gate caps in the power Supply.
My price for these mods is aprox. $300 parts $150 labor.
Your cost will vary depending on the resistors you wish me to put in. The improvement in sound is stunning. Clarity
and Detail are improved at least two to one and the speed
and pace of the bass is excellent. No more slow dark sony sound on cd's. Sacd's are superb. The best part is the
imaging has improved with the sound behind the speakers
and not in your face. The treble is not forward anymore
and the ambiance is clear and clean, not warm and fuzzy
as before. Contact Richard Kern at:
http://www.audiomod.com or email me at cdenhance@uswest.net
I can give you a choice of capacitors and resistors
to put in your sony and a lower price because of this.
Eldon (Answers)
Isn't this what you are saying Alex is doing?
Maybe there is an explanation you can offer to help me see what you were meaning. |
Doc, by the way, PSCIALLI does own a Musical Fidelity tube output stage, and I hope he will soon try it out on his new ModWright. I know he did applied it to his former Denon 2200, and it did improve the sound of that particular unit to some extent. |
Thank you Doc Luke, you are correct in inferring that musicality may mean different things to different people. I was perhaps overreacting to your just slightly barbed suggestion of elitism among the longtimers of this thread and I could not resist raising one of my favorite pet peeves in exchange. Perhaps poor 'timing pacing and Rhythm' (TPR?) may be deemed the audiophilic 'heartburn'. Like heartburn has nothing to do with the old ticker--as my family physician once painstakingly explained, while assuring me that I was truly not dying yet--so TPR has little to do with rhythm, as no audio system that I know of has the ability of altering the rhytmic signaature of any piece of music.
Hopefully not sounding too volatile, Guido |
I firmly agree with Richard Kern.
Moderators have deleted or not posted mulitple posts of mine that had nothing to do with promoting myself, but to give information or answer questions and Alex gets away with murder with his promotions in these forums.
Is he paying some special fee that we do not know about to post here?? what gives? I dunno but what you guys are doing here for him to promote his business is plain WRONG!
Sincerely,
Douglas Jesse
Reference Audio Mods |
This digital forum to promote APLHIFI.
As a modifier how plays by the rules and does not promote
myself, I am mad as hell. Where are the moderators?
I could never get away with this on Audio Asylum.
Audiogon should not be used to promote any modifier at the
expense of other modifiers. Dan Wright of Modwright, Ric
Schultz of EVS and Kyle Takenaga of RAM agree with me.
APLHIFI must be made to play by the rules.
Let Alex post ads if he wants to promote his business.
Richard Kern
Audiomod |
Guidocoroner,
I am not sure what point you are trying to make by comparing my phrase of timing and rhythm with your phrase of transient response and coherence. I would now like to be argumentative and imply from this premise that you must be either showing off/trying to intimidate me with your terminology (which I hope you understand the meaning of)as you have not confronted my original question regarding what we all mean by the word 'musicality'. I have given you two possible differring descriptions which are really quite self explanatory. As this forun is for people with all sorts of levels of knowledge, why dont you give us your opinion using simple self explanatory descriptive words.
I look forward to your no doubt volatile response.
Doc |
Hey Peter, yes, I know about that tube. I meant more specifically, which 5687? Tung Sol? Other? Sorry, should have been more specific. Thanks! |
TBG,
I agree about your impatience, I also have the same feeling. But do you know that my initial suggestions above are so simple they take minutes to implement, and you could be revelling in the improvemnents within minutes in some cases. The guys that do the mods are very clever but do not have all the ultimate answers or even the simplest. As a General Medical Practitioner in the UK, I can see a patient regulalrly as well as by my colleagues and not notice that they are insidiously developing Hypothyroidism, until it is pointed out by a person who sees them for the first time. You can be an expect, but it does not mean you are tuned in mentally tothe simplest of things, when your mind and training have led you forward into much more complex realms.
What I have tried to imply is that you guys with the Esoteric DV50, who feel they have the detail but not the 'musicality' or tonality' of some of the mods, are already most of the way to wards the ideal. I believe that once you have extracted the maximum amount of information it is a matter of finely tuning the information into the coherent whole. Just read the very cheap and simple tweaks I have mentioned above.
The simplest is adding in the Tube buffer the musical fidelity x10D. For a $100 you have added a tube in the circuit. The tube in the professional mods simply make the digital signal mor linear. Ok with my method the tube is used after the output stage, and this will be a compromise, but for a small outlay you could mimic the circuits used by the professionals and not wait for months!
I am not saying this will beat what the mod experts are doing, and I do appreciate their work, but you can at least have fun, without destroying your equipment which can give you quick answers. None of the modders have as yet put an output stage in the DV50 you could do a similar feat with the add on box and find out of what value a valve will be in the circuit. I bet it will significantly improve the sound in a silmilar manner to the prior valve/ digital mods.
doc Luke |
Hi All,
Thank you all for your replies, you have made me feel at home. I hope I can provide some further thought provoking ideas in the future. |
The 999 uses a pair of 5687s.
Peter |
Peter, which tubes are you using with the 999ES? |
My Modwright Sony 999 Review:
Hi All,
I've had the better part of a week now to get my Modwright player warm and toasty as well as somewhat broken-in. I've been playing many discs each day and leaving it on all night in repeat mode to try to get some hours on it. It's changed quite a bit since I first got it. There are a few areas where it is clearly superior to my Linn table and Clearaudio cartridge combo. It's not a direct comparison though. They are very different without one necessarily being better than the other. However, the Modwright is better in several important ways. The soundstage remains huge. It is larger than that with vinyl without smearing the sound elements at all. This is Redbook I'm mainly talking about. SACD ranges from simply more of the same to jaw-dropping magic, depending on the recording.
On the ModWright an ensamble such as the one playing behind Diana Krall on her Girl in the Next Room hybrid SACD is clearly placed next to and behind her in a very definite arrangement. This effect solidified during the break-in process. While the stage is huge, transporting me in my smallish listening room to her venue on the recording, the various human and instrumental voices can be reliably pointed to in space. Moreover, the interactions of voices really strike me as themselves representing distinct purposeful sounds while still allowing me to hear the individual notes within the blend. When Diana sings, or Linda Eder or Michael Feinstein for that matter, I hear the whole voice from my position which seems to be about two rows back. The main voice quality, along with nasal and chest tones, along with pacing and breathing give me the sense of having the artist delivering directly to me what he wants to express. All this time, the other instruments on stage retain their solidity andcontribution to the overall picture.
I've only been once through, at this point, Volume II of Oscar Peterson's remixed SACD series. It is utterly rivotting. You find yourself in a live venue where the trio plays. The plucks of the string bass simply exist in your space off to one side while you clearly and indidivudally hear the hammers in Oscar's piano striking their wires. When the wires are struck, it sets up marvelous resonance in the wood of the piano body which itself drives the next note. On this SACD, the spacial depth is unlike anything I've heard on a home system.You can hear Oscar humming to himself behind the keyboard, you can hear his stool squeak as he turns to make visual contact with his band mates You can hear his nails striking the keys and you can hear snippets of conversation in and around the crowd.
Every disk I"ve played as revealed orders of magnitude more information compared with the best I've ever heard before. The tonal balance is also stunning. I can't imagine wanting to listen to digital sources without tubes in the analog stage ever again. The upper midrange sparkles, but isn't bright. harmonies and overtones go on and on. Bass is extended and articulate. This player does everything right.
The bottom line is that all the effects I've mentioned above come seamlessly together to provide a totally involving and emotional experience.
On the down side, I'm having my suspected weaknesses in the rest of the audio chain made really clear to me. Fortunately, this is a front end I can really work with. I'm going to be needing more moxy in the power amp before too long.
If I get into the position of being part of a shoot out here in the DC area, I"d love to hear some of the other big contenders. For now, at 20% of the price of the Esoteric X01, I'm really hard pressed to worry that the X01 will be a whole lot better. STill if I get the chance I'll be there to hear it. I apologize if I seem a bit too enthusiastic, but this is the most excited I've been about a piece of audio gear in a long long time.
Peter |
Luke I agree with you,palpability should be part of
musicality and emotion also.Thank you for asking. |
Audiojoy4
"I am surprised that switchmode supplies are being used, i really did think that they were using more conventional power supplies. I do also know that the famed Meitner is also working from switch mode. My general experience has been that switch modes tend to sound leaner, harmonially less fleshed out but with a faster more pushy sound."
Halcro is also using SMPS units in their products. With proper design and noise control SMPS can produce excellent results. Manufacturers use them because they're cheap,save
on shipping weight and the same supply will work on 220-240
or 100-120 VAC. |
Luke, thank you so much for your offer to contribute without being argumentative. For this very reason, I may decide to ignore the fact that you may be confusing transient response and coherence across frequency range with what you call 'timing and rhythm'. As this is a very busy thread, not all postings are always responded to equally thoroughly, including many of my own. If an important question from you has not been addressed yet, the best thing is to ask once again. Eventually, someone who feels qualified answering, in fact will do exactly so. Please do not hesitate, to repost your questions in the happy spirit that has characterized the bulk of this discussion. |
Audiojoy, speaking for myself, I no longer am tempted by DIY for several reasons. Foremost among these is my experience with moders who have a great understanding of possible circuits, such as Allen Wright and John Tucker. I could do simple parts swaps and I grant that much of the advance is just that, but there are other mods that are not just such swaps.
Basically, I am impatient to have the best I can get and have found that even expensive stock units, such as the TEAC Esoterics can be equaled if not bested by mods. No doubt moders make a living doing this, but I do not view my buying their products as serving "money makers." |
Hi all,
I see no one has replied to any of my suggestions. Is this an exclusive club, or is it that you all have so much moneythat any suggestion of simple diy on your behalf would be considered 'snobbish'.
Furthermore, not wishing in any way to be too argumentative, but I am a little confused by your use of the term musical. Musical to me means foot tapping, correct timing and rhythm. I get the impression some of youare using this word to mean more realistic in terms of palpability and presence of instrumentalists and vocalists. Perhaps our terminology varies on both sides of the pond.
Please check out someof my suggestions, very simple and dramatic, you will be amazed at what you can do for pennies. I do not mean to put down the work of the professionals there is no doubt they are doing excellent work, but you do not need to be a genious to do a few very simple mods yourselves instead of waiting for the money makers to come up with the suggestions.
regards Luke |
Hey folks, just wanted to let you know that I have spent time with AVGuru and Jayctoy over the last few weeks listening to their systems, comparing notes, talking about the different "modded" players and such. These guys are class acts!
I currently have the Audio Aero DAC, and when AVGuru stuck it in his system, in his room, using the Esoteric DV-50 as a transport, the sound was indeed "magical". Miles never sounded better! We tried the same scenerio in my house, on my system, and while it was decent, it certainly was not magical. Goes to show you how important "system synergy" is.
Pscialli, congrats on your ModWright 999ES. I just decided to go this route as well, after extensive listening to Jayctoy's 9000ES. He was kind enough to let me borrow it for a few days. I felt that in my situation, the 999ES would give me the best sonics for the $$, along with SACD, and multi-channel and video capabilities. Heck, you can pick up a pre-owned 999ES between $500 and $600. Anyways, the redbook on the Jayctoy's 9000ES was quite impressive, maybe just a pinch under the Audio Aero, but the SACD was simply awesome! I look forward to putting the 999ES in my system!
Happy New Year, all! |
Hi Guys,
I received my ModWright Sony 999 yesterday afternoon after an unfortunate UPS delay. I will not make any full comments just yet as the machine has only been on for about 16 hours and the listening has been very preliminary on a non broken-in machine with non warmed-up tubes. Obviously, there is lots of warm up and experimentation to do. First impressions is that the machine is marvelous. Right out of the box, the level of detail and dimensionality is greater than anything I've heard on my system. I recently heard the Linn 2.1 on a different system, but my subjective notes are that my new Modwright machine has a larger soundstage. I ran a disc on repeat mode overnight and the sound has improved somewhat. There is less congestion. Interstingly, I didn't feel that the sound was congested in the first place. Compared to my unmodified Denon, the difference, even with a cold machine, is night and day. The soundstage extends well beyond the physical edges of the speakers. The lead vocals, for example are front & center with tons of air and bloom. Yes, bloom: I love tubes! Other instruments are arrayed in 3 dimensions on the stage with their sounds being both individually distinguishable while their blend is heard to full effect. I've only listened to Redbook so far, but I'm mighty impressed.
I will give a fuller report after I've had a few days of burn-in on the unit. BTW, with no reflection on any other modder, I have to say that Dan Wright is great to deal with. He was always very responsive, even returning Emails within a few minutes over the holiday weekends.
For reference, the rest of my system consists of an ARC SP-16LS, the Musical Fidelity A3CR amp (100 watts) and B&W Nautilus 803 speakers. Other parts of the system are slated for upgrade, but I seem to have landed on a great front-end at a very reasonable price.
Peter |
All the best at the CES, Alex!
- Jay |
Dbld, I am leaving for Las Vegas in 4 hours from now so I will keep it plain and simple...:-)
The MC in the Denon can be left alone or further upgraded (Op Amps, capacitors, etc) for $150 which brings even better quality.
The extensive power supply upgrades and the Master Clock contribute to better Digital output, better Video and, of course, better overall MC and Stereo performance.
I have just a couple 192/24 discs that I play on regular bases - no problems so far.
Finally, most of the "shootouts" with my machine were done about 5 revisions ago - No Master Clock, DSP and some critical power supply upgrades at that time. Since my 3910 is now completely different sounding machine, it would be quite interesting to hear the opinion of the "Chicago gang" again...:-)...and, of course, as many other opinions as possible. I like to "play the game" with my cards down on the table - face up...:-)
Hey guys, behave while I am gone!!!..:-)
Regards,
Alex |
711Smilin, AVGURU, and others in the Chicago obsession clinic...I have a few questions for you folks that I would ask Alex directly, but perhaps others following this thread could benefit from the answers as well. Besides, I am sure Alex is busy with his regular work. I think this thread alone could be a full time job.
When you guys did your several side-by-side comparisons, I understand you did mostly, if not all, in two channel redbook, and some SACD. How does the APL 3910 do in SACD relative to the others you have listened to, as well as in multi-channel and DVD-A? I understand the Modwright (or was it Underwood?) Sony was quite nice too.
I see that Alex offers a multi-channel option for a little extra, but what does that get you? Since this thread references off the DV-50 (which I have), can you compare it to that in multi-channel?
711, you have mentioned that you use a separate machine for SS/HT for personal taste reasons. How does the APL 3910 fair for HT sound when using the digital coax output? Again, since you owned a DV-50 at one time, is it comparable to that sound from the coax? This may seem like a stupid question, but I have tried many players recently and have found big differences in their digital coax sound. These differences, for whatever reason, do seem to coincide with their analog performance, but I dont claim to be smart enough to know why there is any difference at all.
And finally, has anyone with a modded 3910 had any problems playing any types of disks. Specifically 192kHz two channel DVD-A? The stock 3910 I owned when they first came out rejected these disks for me. I brought this up once before in this thread
sorry to bring it up again.
As mentioned above, I am currently using a DV-50 and I like it for movies as well as two channel and multi-channel, but you guys are dangling the carrot I front of me. I really wish I could hear an APL machine for myself, but alas
I am in Philly and am not quite dedicated enough to drive/fly out to Chicago (Yes, I am a lazy SOB). Although I dont do a lot of multi-channel listening, I like to keep my options open, and want only one box/player to do it all. I am not so concerned with video performance since I am also using an external video processor. If I really wanted, any machine I end up with could be modded for SDI to get the ultimate in video.
Thanks in advance.
Dave
PS sorry if this posts twice, my computer just screwed up |
alex,
I diod have a chat with one of his representatives who state that he is working on UK models, I donot know if he is using a step down transformer. I could get you a denon model from the uk. But more interestingly I was wandering if a 240v transformer of a higher quality could be used to replace the standard. However, if this is a switch mode power supply then this would be very difficult. I am surprised that switchmode supplies are being used, i really did think that they were using more conventional power supplies. I do also know that the famed Meitner is also working from switch mode. My general experience has been that switch modes tend to sound leaner, harmonially less fleshed out but with a faster more pushy sound. Whereas as good old fashion supplies had a warmer analogue sound. Hence the warmer sound from the marantzes who use the copper chasis and the traditional power supply method for the output HDAMs. I will email you my details shortly via your web sight
Luke |
Thanks Alex. I have other some other concerns but I'll wait until after CES to run them by you. |
Luke, I made at least 10 attempts to email you, but it was all returned as undelivarable with permanent error. I actually thought that someone is trying to get me upset...:-)
Please provide valid emai so we can communicate.
Are you sure the Exemplar operates on 240V? If so, John should be installing step down transformer inside as it would be difficult to change the switching power supply to 240V operation. If that is the case, you can always use external step down transformer.
Yes, you can do many things with EM and RF shielding, but I don't think you will need any of that with my machine. My transformer coupled tube stage will not benefit from the x10D buffer either.
Regards,
Alex |
alex
i have already e mailed you regarding purchase of the 3910 with full mods. Will you be able to do it in 240volt, or should I purchase the unit in the uk and send it to you?
I have always added the Musical fidelity X10d buffer which always added an organic warmth to the sound, improved low level detail and improved the three dimentional imaging.(this was in my audiocom modded sony scd 777es) So it is not suprizing that the tube mods are so successful.Indeed I have also used with 100% success every time the Monarchy DIP 24/96, which always added better tonality (microdynamic functionality)hence the more lifelike sound. I have used it between various transports and dacs with the same success. With the use of both the dip and x10D I wonder if these set ups match your single modded unit? Of course I have used better tubes,caps and my own filtered high VA ac input) in the X10D than the stock one.
Putting copper around the transport always improved the warmth and tonality of the sound and I have since discovered that this was done in the Marantz SA1. However, I have always found that full encapsulation or shielding of the unit lead to too much softness and loss of transparency. Nonetheless the same feat could be managed by simply wrapping copper (pure) around the interconecting or power cables. Again the amount of revolutions were consistent in the degree of warth added to the sound. The magic number was usually five turns before the sound stopped changing or became overly soft. Please note that these are not earthed. It is obviously an electromagnetic effect. Ultimately the design circuitry is the essential sound you will have but by judicious use of copper as described above you can TOTALLY change the sound of the unit. If you then decide to use silver coated copper you will extract more detail from the unit more transparency and insight but less warmth. The same also happens if you use 0.14 mm wire as oppossed to .5mm. So when one describes the teac as being 'lean' 'forward' 'musical'etc can be readily and easily changed to the opposite spectrum as described above. All those guys on this forum compare this to that but in reality there are dramatic effects that can be made by simply manipulating the transport surround or indeed the power and interconnect cables(or indeed adding the x10d buffer, which i know you will not like hearing) Ultimately the important factor of the unit (assumming it extracts near maximal detail) is what amount of changes the unit can support whilst inproving before the sound falls apart and you have not quite reached audio nirvana. Now that would be interesting in a unit such as the Teac DV50.
However, as i said the circuitry which extracts the maximum potential from the unit is what matters most and I am sure that you have this in your mods, by simplifying circuitry etc.
I look forward to doing business with you VERY SOON, or I may have to jump over to the cheaper exemplar.
regards Luke |
Islandear, the transport/Audio DSP of these machines is identical. With my mod, there will not be any benefit of modding the 5910, except if there is any major Video processing difference and you really want better video performance.
Regards,
Alex |
Alex, what are the substantial differences, if any, between the 3910 and the 5910; that is, what would be gained by modding the 5910, and what would be the cost beyond suggested retail? I apologize if these questions have already been addressed. |
Avguru, sorry I forgot to answer your other question! The DV-50 mod does not touch MC or Video, they remain intact. The MC in the DV-50 is totally separated circuit. It can be further upgraded for even better sonics. Since the DV-50 uses Pioneer DV-47Ai transport and DSP, it is one of the very rare DVD based universal players to NOT buffer the CD data. It spins the CD 1x, just like a regular CD player. This is something that I do not like at all.
Regards,
Alex |
Thank you Alex and Tbg
Alex, there is no doubt that yours is the most complete rework indeed you
described it as your own machine in an earlier response. Because you replace the DAC board, yours is unique in providing its own remote control, volume attenuator and filters. For comparison purposes, I have stripped out the cost of this proprietary DAC board.
The point I was making was not about the price difference but the fact that the machines reflected their modders different approach and execution, SS versus tube, use of output coupling transformer, etc.
Tbg, I agree that shootouts have their limitations and the conclusions, if any, may not be free from biases. But we listeners have our listening biases too. Notwithstanding this, as a result of this widely followed thread and the listening sessions, potential buyers of the various machines now have a greater sense of how they pan out.
The VSAC sessions you mentioned featured John Tucker's, Dan Wright's, Alex Pachec's, and Allen Wright's mods. The praise for all the units that you heard at the end of that session may not have answered the question which is best but at least you know the various machines are playing in the same league. So, why hasnt anyone included RAM and Underwood into the listening comparisons?
Regards |
Diw and Avguru, there are many reasons why DVD machines are used for mods instead of Stereo ones. First of all, it is not easy to find non DVD based Universal machine. Second, just the DVD based players offer data buffering which is one of the keys for the achieved performance with CD.
It is true that I am disabling the Video and MC capabilities of the 2900, but in the 3910 the Video is preserved and the MC can be preserved or optionally upgraded. There is no space in the 3910 for identical MC mod because I will need 3 tubes and 6 output transformers. As Avguru mentioned, the power supply, clock and some other upgrades improve the MC sound dramatically.
Regards,
Alex |
Tbg, I respectfully disagree with you,one of the room
we use is Quintessense Audio, 15k tweak room.I pointed
that to Avguru.Only four people present.In a very
revealing system,17k Thor amp, 11k amp, Kubala Sosna
cabling.Sonus Faber Cremona.You cant ask for a better
set up than this.
Yes I agree 711 system, and room is not there yet, but
believe me, Its more than enought to tell you the
diferrence.We went to Mark1 house a well thought tube
system.The sony is again way much better than the DV50,
especially in SACD.Like I said AVguru heard the SonyMod
in my system,the result is even better, because my Sony
is synergising with my system. AVguru left in disbelief.
TBG, Like 711 said he drove to 2 hours, I drove many hours
for this shootout.
I will tell you Avguru,Me , and Mark, we are all unbiased,
we understand, the result will affect someones finances,
musical journey, in choosing the right cdp.I made that
clear to AVguru.I even borrowed My Sony to Mark1 for 2
days to make sure,He has plenty of time to hear it, and
get acclimated,and for the players to settle in.Again
the result is the same.Mark is is the process of looking
for a use DVP 999, to send to it Dan.I want to make this
thing clear.I am not on Dan payroll,he wont even give me
discount.
Tbg, we might go to Brian house,for one more Shootout.
My understanding, He also have a very good system.
To me shootout is very important you learn more about
the players, before to spend your hard earned dollars.
Enjoy the music.
Thank you to everyone who appreciate our effort to find
the truth.We hope that you read this thread very carefully,
It so easy to discern who is telling the Truth.
Again lets enjoy the music. |
Diw writes: My problem with all these mods is that they do not upgrade the multichannel portion of the player I had Ric Schultz modify my Sony XA777ES and discarded multi-channel in the process. I have no interest in that form of sound reproduction. And as Tbg says, there is not much room in some of these units - particularly that Sony. If the modifier is not interested in surround sound, and you are, perhaps your choice of modifier is wrong. Regards, |
TBG, the great value of the shootouts is not so much in a hypothetical consensuality of the results, but in the activity itself, and the miriad of observations made during it. I find it perfectly acceptable that after the current round the team seems to be split over ModWright and APL, and that the performance of X-01 still ominously looms, with hypothesized superiority, even if not compared directly. We all accept the fact that we may be looking for subtly different things, as Steve Milin and Bonn can confirm, and as I pointed out in my pointer to the other X-01 thread. Nothing wrong with that: finding differnet truths from the same experience. Only if you were a logician you would find this objectionable, as in "ex falso sequitur quodlibet". Or in other words, one can reach any conclusions from false premises. But we are not logicians around here, or at least, I am not while I am listening to music. Apologies, by the way, I am a Texan as well, as I have resided here 6 wonderful years, minus 6 awful months of August, needless to say! |
Alex,
Would you please respond to DIW's comments about no upgrade to the multi-channel/video section? Am I correct in assuming that the upgraded power supplies "indirectly" increase the performance of the video? Also, do you not (upon request) offer upgrades to the op amps that are linked to mulit-channel? Can you not also "change out" the cheap single-ended rca connectors that are used for multi-channel?
What else can you do to improve the mulit-channel and/or video performance? In talking to you and Dan Wright I don't believe you have to disable the multi-channel. I know you left them intact in the DV 50 upgrade. What options do offer in regards to multi-channel?
AVGURU |
personally, I think the quality of multichannel sound is superior, if identical speakers are used. Just listen to the new Mercury SACD's and compare the 3 channel mix.
I assume you are right that there is no room for 5 channels of tubes , but I always thought a 5 channel ss mod would make sense. |
Diw, because of the quality of the 2 channel sound. I cannot afford the quality that I have in my two channel system for more channels, especially as the demonstrations that I have heard leave me with no interest. Furthermore, outputs for all of the channels would take too much room within the unit and be too expensive. A moder would go broke with such a unit. |
My problem with all these mods is that they do not upgrade the multichannel portion of the player, and, in many cases (APL 29000), dispense with the MC ability entirely. I don't understand you guys. If all you want is 2 channel, why don't you look into modding a dedicated CD player or even one of the 2 channel CD/SACD players? What's the point of buying a product with DVD circuitry, if you aren't really interested in the universal capabilities of a machine like the 3910? And why wouldn't you want the analog stages of the critical center channel (and even the surrounds) upgraded to match the L/R? |
Mikannen, other than the Crystal CS4398 DAC board with Microprocessor control, 0.5db attenuator, phase and filter modes "on the fly", please do not forget the Master Clock, 5 linear power supplies with 2 R-Core transformers and Single Ended TRANSFORMER coupled Class "A" triode output stage.
Happy New Year!
Alex |
Tbg-
"I think shootouts are useless." Careful, you might put an end to, in Avguru's words: one of the best, most interesting and most well responded to threads going on Audiogon now.
"About a year ago, I decided to evaluate all of what I thought were the best ac line filters."
Did you test the Running Spring Audio units? |
Guidocorona, please don't assume that I am a Texan. Yes, I have lived here for 25 years, but I have also lived in Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, Oregon, California, Florida, New York, and Pennsylvania. Shootouts are not a communal activity but rather a sincere desire to get the best you can get or the best for the money. I understand this, but from personal experience I also know there will be little consensus and that one frequently likes some strengths of various units.
Yes, they can be fun and escape from more mundane aspects of daily life, but it is like going to a car show. It fills your hours and resolves little. In one car show I found that the only BMW, I could sit up in was the Z3. |
TBG, if the Chicago gang and its remote members find them enjoyable, rewarding, uplifting, revealing, exciting, an a welcome escape from dayly drudgery etc. . . the shootouts are useful, at least to them/us. In life very few things are actually formally 'useful'. I do understand how such communal North Eastern activities may go against your ascetic South Western grain, yet. . . |
I think shootouts are useless. Where it possible to capture the comparison in a truly revealing system in a great room and make this available to all for their personal evaluation, we could move ahead on this. But in any shootout there will be no consensus, there is no use of a perfect evaluations of the contributions of each component being evaluated, and no weighing of the benefit per dollar of each.
Better than a year ago at the VSAC sessions in Silverdale, John Tucker's, Dan Wright's, Alex Pachec's, and Allen Wright's mods were compared with the same music in the same space. The room was terrible but there were perhaps a hundred people listening. No poll was taken, but from my conversations afterwards I heard praise for all of the units and all characterized as the best. I personally declined to make such a decision.
About a year ago, I decided to evaluate all of what I thought were the best ac line filters. This cost me a good deal of money and drove me to dispair given the multiple combinations of which units in my system sounded best with which filter. Today I have none of these units in my system despite being very impressed with many of them. All of them had many positive reviews and much endorsement on Audiogon and AA. |
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Hi Oldpet & Alex
Did a quick comparison off the internet. These are the costs of the full mods for 2900/3910 (incl new clock but not the machine and optional bybee filters).
Underwood Level 2 Mods (SS) $1730
RAM (SS with silver coupling Transformer) $1750
Modwright Universal Truth (tube) $1950
APL (tube with master clock but not new DAC board ) $2605
Actually other than APL, the price differences are not that substantial but more reflect different approaches. Despite the touted advantages of tube (of which I subscribe to), both RAM and Underwood continue to use SS analog stages. One must however recognize that this is something some users may prefer because of listening preference or out of concern over heat generated and hence long term reliability.
Alex is the only one with his own custom DAC board but I have worked out the cost less the Board.
This brings me back to my original question. How do the RAM and Underwood machines stack up against the Modwright and APL and the DV50?
While it is difficult to quantify, how much of an improvement comes from Alexs own DAC board.
It seems to me that this shootout will be incomplete without bringing RAM and Underwood into the picture. I dont know if they can be persuaded to provide samples for audition.
Thanks and Best Wishes for 2005 to all |
Just wanted to point everyone to a new thread just started, comparing X-01 with Emm, Teac P01, as well as the newest top of the line Sony and Denon players. Please see:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1104558827&openmine&zzGuidocorona&4&5#Guidocorona
Please note that while in this new comparison the EMM appears outwardly to be preferred to X-01, the characteristics the listener was looking for may be subtly different from those sought by some members of this thread's gang. But rather than discussing this issue at length here, I invite interested members of the Iron Audiofools to read/analyze/post to the thread I referred to.
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Jfz, I am sorry, I am going crazy getting ready for the Show in Las Vegas. I tried the Audio Desk Systeme machine with both CD and SACD. What is does, it brings more detail (from top to bottom), clarity and the soundstage is bigger. I find the performance more live-like. There is a problem though, with Hybrid (dual layer) SACDs, when beveled, you can see where the two layers meet. I am not sure how long a treated Hybrid will last as air might get inbetween the layers and distroy the Hybrid disc. The good part (for me) is that the Hybrid discs Stereo SACD information is stored at the inner side of the disc and the Multichannel information is toward the outer side. So, even if there is some air inside the disc after time it will affect the Multichannel region and not the Stereo region.
Regards,
Alex |
AVGURU, I have a 2910 in my HT system and it may end up going to APL or Exemplar for mods, but my music system will remain 2-channel...for now anyway. Short list for my upgrade includes the Esoteric X-01, and the Meridian 808 (absolutely exceptional, but limited to redbook). Will be auditioning the new Ayre (believe it will be designated C5XE) in January. Steve Silverman at Ayre suggests that its redbook playback will rival the D1X - or any other platform out there...we'll see. I also like Charlie Hansen's lineup, because, unlike a lot of folks here on Audiogon, I prefer balanced electronics. Look forward to your observations re the Ayre. Best wishes from the Left Coast - have a happy and productive New Year! |
Avguru,
You mentioned using the Esoteric DV50 with an AA DAC. Sounds like you liked it; any more details? How does it stack against the APL and others you have liked?
Thanks,
Jonas |
I listened to an interesting cd player the other day at a home based dealer. It was a new model from MBL and I think the model # was 1531. The retail is around 8k. Top loading and built like a tank. Something else to check out if anyone is looking in that price range. |
