I have been following this thread since mid November. I am a happy owner of a DV-50S (for now anyway), and have only one thing to say...You guys are BERSERK! I am lovin it!
OK, you are past the DV-50, but many of us are living vicariously through these "tests."
I am also glad that the bashing has been kept reeled in.
Thanks,
Dave |
AVGURU- As much as I think of myself as uncompromising (my friends and family too), I now realize you and folks like 711smilin are more so. In a strange way it is comforting for me to know this.
Before I bought the DV-50S, I was looking for the perfect one box solution for audio AND video within my budget. I found great video for relatively cheap in the Integra DPS 10.5, but the audio...a real let down.
It was then that I realized that audio has much more of a priority to me than video. Even when enjoying a movie, the audio from the DV-50S, the Meridian G98, and the Lexicon RT-10 was hugely more involving than the Integra DPS 10.5 or the Denon 3910 (in stock form).
Now when it comes to all the different formats, I am still trying multi-channel material, but 2-channel always seems to be the bread-and-butter of my listening. Even DVD-A and SACD in two channel.
Now my efforts have turned towards my room, and proper acoustic treatment.
So now, instead of sidetracking this thread anymore, I will sit back and continue to read about your exploits, and enjoy my own system with whatever peace of mind I can hold on to. It is certainly better reading than any rag I could pick up at B&N.
Thanks again guys. Keep up the good work
and the fun.
Dave |
It is interesting to hear Alex's thoughts on Balanced vs. Single ended. When I asked the question of Coda (which connection they recommended for 2M cable input to their monoblocks), they recommended the very same thing...single ended. They sited long cable length is the only reason you'd want to run Balanced too.
Touching back to the title of this thread, I believe Alex has a DV-50 in his shop undergoing some mods.
So Alex -
Can you comment on the DV-50 and its suitablilty for mods? What are your expectations...realistically?
I know you're busy, but when you get a chance...
Thanks,
Dave |
Gee...Thanks Alex :-)! Something to shoot for down the road for my DV-50 I guess.
Does your DV-50 mod effect the multi-channel aspect of this player...or the video?
Dave |
Guido, From what Alex and Jack have told me about the APL DV-50, the multi-channel outputs and video section are untouched. It is only a mod on the single ended "high-quality" stereo outputs. These outputs can be used as the front channels of multi-channel listening though. The balanced outputs are disabled.
Dave |
Have any of you guys experienced problems with Modded Denon units that are not repairable?
I tried a Stock 3910 a while back, and it would not play my 192kHz DVD-A discs. What if something like this happened to a modded unit?
I have also heard of transport issues with Denons, and actually had one issue with the 3910 I was trying for a while. I had a disc that was a little off balance (it played just fine on other players, but with a mild rumble) that when played in the 3910 sounded like it was going to self destruct within the player. It eventually stopped trying to play it, and ejected the disc.
Dave
PS - perhaps after New Years I will write a bit more clearly...sorry all |
Thanks for the info Guido and Alex. Quite interesting.
So Alex, does the 3910 spin the disk much faster than the DV-50?
I was told something similar about Meridian gear, and how it uses a 10x drive and buffers the data. I demoed a G98 for a weekend and was really impressed and I was simply feeding my pre/pro via a cheap Stereovox coax. |
Thanks Alex.
Hey Chicago boys - Any chance you can tally-up some sort of basic ranking of the players you have auditioned so far? Avguru...since you began this thread maybe you would be the most appropriate to do this job.
You guys have gone through so many players, and this thread is so long now, it is a little difficult to do a synopsis. Guru began with the DV-50 which bested many players for him including the Theta Compli. I remember that one because I was trying to get a listen to one. Once you all got together with 711smilin, the APL 3910 has not only bested the DV-50 (with ease apparently), it has become a bit of the thread favorite.
Now Alex has done a DV-50, but maintains that the 3910 still sounds better. However the DV-50 was all SS while the 3910 uses his tube outputs. My question then is; how close are they in sound performance?
There is a lot of fun and useful information here, but my head is about to explode trying to keep up with it all. I have also come to the realization that this quest truly is never ending.
Dave |
711Smilin, AVGURU, and others in the Chicago obsession clinic...I have a few questions for you folks that I would ask Alex directly, but perhaps others following this thread could benefit from the answers as well. Besides, I am sure Alex is busy with his regular work. I think this thread alone could be a full time job.
When you guys did your several side-by-side comparisons, I understand you did mostly, if not all, in two channel redbook, and some SACD. How does the APL 3910 do in SACD relative to the others you have listened to, as well as in multi-channel and DVD-A? I understand the Modwright (or was it Underwood?) Sony was quite nice too.
I see that Alex offers a multi-channel option for a little extra, but what does that get you? Since this thread references off the DV-50 (which I have), can you compare it to that in multi-channel?
711, you have mentioned that you use a separate machine for SS/HT for personal taste reasons. How does the APL 3910 fair for HT sound when using the digital coax output? Again, since you owned a DV-50 at one time, is it comparable to that sound from the coax? This may seem like a stupid question, but I have tried many players recently and have found big differences in their digital coax sound. These differences, for whatever reason, do seem to coincide with their analog performance, but I dont claim to be smart enough to know why there is any difference at all.
And finally, has anyone with a modded 3910 had any problems playing any types of disks. Specifically 192kHz two channel DVD-A? The stock 3910 I owned when they first came out rejected these disks for me. I brought this up once before in this thread
sorry to bring it up again.
As mentioned above, I am currently using a DV-50 and I like it for movies as well as two channel and multi-channel, but you guys are dangling the carrot I front of me. I really wish I could hear an APL machine for myself, but alas
I am in Philly and am not quite dedicated enough to drive/fly out to Chicago (Yes, I am a lazy SOB). Although I dont do a lot of multi-channel listening, I like to keep my options open, and want only one box/player to do it all. I am not so concerned with video performance since I am also using an external video processor. If I really wanted, any machine I end up with could be modded for SDI to get the ultimate in video.
Thanks in advance.
Dave
PS sorry if this posts twice, my computer just screwed up |
I don't feel Alex has advertised or acted inappropriately here. After all, it was a member from Chicago (more or less) that brought his machine into the mix. And it was his (APL) machine simply because AVGURU and 711Smilin went at it and decided to do a face-off of sorts. A Modwright Sony has equaled or bettered the APL with some material since the original comparison.
Alex's direct comments here helped to explain equipment, and his approach/philosophy. I for one have found his input very useful...albeit over my head often.
Richard - why not join in the debate as your area of expertise should help to balance the statements made here. It is difficult for some of us regular folk to grasp what is real or not-real when it comes to some of these mods. If you, Dan, Kyle, Alex and John Tucker openly discussed/debated some of the content in these pages...boy - now that would be interesting.
If you could put a machine into the mix
perhaps that would be the best of all. Isnt RAM East somewhat close to Chicago (I thought Doug was in MI)?
Think of it as a time saver. I am strongly considering a modded player (I have even spoken with Doug), but I have not made my required mental commitment and thus have not picked a modder
nor do I know much about the different modders. If I called each one I wouldnt know what to ask, but surely I would get a sales pitch. And afterward, I still wouldnt know who to go to because I am not technically savvy enough. . And, I dont want to be. That is the job of the modder. Furthermore, I would be wasting my time and the bunch of modders time that I would NOT end up doing business with.
That is why I say Richard; this is a place where you could preemptively answer many time wasting phone calls. Am I that far off?
Dave |
OK - What I said above was written while Doug's post was going up.
I do feel all should play by the same rules. I really do want to hear from RAM, Modwright, Exemplar and whomever should they want to put some thoughts into writing. I they cannot participate, then that is indeed very wrong.
Furthermore, we as participants in this thread are loosing out on valuable and healthy debate and explanations.
Dave |
Phil and Guido, thank you so much for your insightful words regarding DAC.
Through your enlightenment I have quickly done some intense research and consultations and am afraid I too am infected with a severe case of DAC. Its origin in my family is uncertain since my father passed away quite young. Unfortunately, in my case, it is believed to be a new strand of this disease since thus far it does not seem to have a genetic connection after researching five generations. This is most regretful since it implies that this potentially debilitating disease has now mutated from one that is purely hereditary in nature and transmission, to one that is potentially transmitted to new subjects with dramatically quick progression to an advanced state of acute infection (in my case less than two years). Furthermore, the vehicle of transmission is, at this time, unknown, but it is believed to be airborne.
Dave
BTW, you guys have made me laugh on a most difficult day thanks. |
|
Once again...our poor thread takes a turn for the worst...showing the true character of those participating...even when we all scream NO, NO!. ;-)
Have a good weekend all.
711 - can't wait to hear your impression of the Modwright player. |
Orjazzm - which Esoterics is the Accustic Arts Surround Player 1 being compared to? And, where/when in the states can this this thing be seen/heard?
Dave |
Heck, I'm waiting for 711smilin to get his Modwright machine, break it in, and then provide some feedback.
Dave |
Has anyone here ever heard the Bel Canto PL-1 or PL-1A?
I am curious and pose this question here since there is a wealth of knowledge in this thread. This player has gotten some favorable reviews as a cdp even though it too is a universal, and is priced in the same ballpark as the DV-50.
Dave |
Here's another mod question, has anyone has experience with the VSE level 4 mod?
http://www.vacuumstate.com/
Boy, I am just full of questions lately...sorry.
Dave |
Reeling the thread back a moment, I get the impression there are many players in the queue for the next get-together. I really hope Tgun5's modified DV-50 makes it into the mix. In the spirit of this threads origin, it would be interesting to see now Tgun5s DV-50 measures up to 711smilins APL or even the modded Sony. It would be nice too if the new McIntosh 861 was there
but too many players and too many people could really dilute the effectiveness of the meeting. I wish this sort of thing went on near Philly.
Dave |
Brian,
I would not presume to be the expert on such a matter. Only experience can really tell. The evaluations done in this thread are the first ones that have ever captured my interest.
I think as you go through the day with the various "contenders", you would be able to tell when the "point of diminishing returns" is reached.
Perhaps that is Tgun5's motive for supplying the Pinot Grigio. Perhaps it depends on how many bottles he brings with him:-).
Dave |
Because of discussions that have happened already throughout this thread (when it stays on topic) I would suggest the following:
(1) APL modded Denon 3910
(2) modified Esoteric DV-50 (Superclock 3)
(3) EMMlabs transport and DAC
(4) Esoteric X01
(5) Sony SCD-777ES Richard Kern modified
(6) Modwright Sony 9000es (or Modwright Sony 999es but not both
we know it is really good already)
And save these and the "other" Modwright Sony for another time:
(7) Audio Aero DAC
(8) Audio Note 3.1x DAC
At least the players listed above are the ones that have stirred curiosity and surprise already. It would be nice to whittle down to a reference one or two then have you guys get together again sometime to check out the Audio Aero, the Audio Note, and the remaining Modwright Sony, as well as one or two others. I for one am very interested in Steves Modwright 3910 when he gets it. That alone should be enough reason the get back together.
Just my opinion though. Have fun.
Dave |
Brian - Please go for it with whatever pieces you have available. That will mean fewer when the next couple of pieces come along for the next session (I don't like calling it a shootout).
Tvad has a point though, if you don't hear differences right away, if they are subtle, too many pieces to compare can quickly become a burden rather than fun.
Tvad - Don't you know yet...it is never-ending!!!!!!!!!
OK, OK...yes Guido, I still have DAC.
Dave
Folks - keep it light. This shouldn't make people mad. It is just stereo equipment. |
Audio_girl, I completely agree with you regarding the SP1000. I owned the Integra version for some time and your observation is dead-on-the-money (I can't describe these things myself...but I know when something's missing). Ears, however, is a die-hard SP1000 fanatic. The last time I criticized the SP1000/DPS 10.5's sound (in the AVS forum) he accused me of bragging about how much money I spent on other players for comparison.
I agree that the SP1000 is a great player for its price range and has excellent build quality. But its sound is so far off the DV-50 and the Meridian level (even the Krell and Lexicon level), it is not even funny. I couldn't even imagine comparing it to the Linn, but I have never heard the Linn.
Ears won't give up though. I am glad he is happy with his unit. But he gets very offended by those who do not share his opinion. |
I am not a fan of the "shootout" term. However I do like the concept albeit limited in scope, and I like knowing that others too suffer from DAC.
Perhaps you cannot pick the more/most preferable player because of many of the reasons listed above. Nevertheless, if a player is clearly inferior, hopefully, this would be noticed.
Regardless, I like hearing different people's observations, and look forward to more "shootouts" and even hearing some of these player for myself sometime.
It seems there was not a "clearly inferior" machine at the last meeting. At least we know some folks had fun. Oh well, the search continues...as if that was going to change after a "shootout!" |
I used to keep telling my wife I was almost done:
Not to long ago she said at me "Aren't you finished with that [the system and the room] yet!?"
When I said "No, it will never be done!"
She said, "Well I am glad you finally realized that!"
Boy...what a relief. A weight had been lifted from my shoulders. She is definitely a keeper...which is more than I can say for any of my gear.
BTW - please go easy on the DV-50 folks. It is still one of the better unmodded/stock units available, especially for $3.6K. And besides, I'll need to sell mine sometime, and I don't want the market to completely drop out from under it. |
For the third time now Luke...I think we get it. |
Damn! I thought this thread was dead. |
I don't mind if this thread lives or dies...personally I'd rather see it live because the conversation COULD be interesting...so long as folks don't get too ugly in their words.
I'd rather read about people's experience with these high caliber players than read about some guy's $300 CC special. |
Luke, was/is your Modwright Sony new? If so, how long did it take to break in? |
