@brownsfan Do you have any threads where you discuss the amp choices for your SV's? I bought some coincident PREs and am trying to figure out how to amplify them (or whether to keep my Franks and find an alternative speaker). It sounds like maybe I'm experiencing some similar issues (I pair the Franks with super eclipse iiis). |
@charles1dad Thanks for the input on the EML Meshplates. George seemed to think that I should be okay running them in my amp leaving the autobias circuit at 75ma. I think I'll turn it down to 65ma and see how that goes. Frankly I don't know what the operating point for the Diavolo 300B version is and the designer has not returned my email which is typical of Tom Willis if he's off doing an audio event. I assume the lower voltage taps on my power transformer is <375v because I have 450v higher voltage taps if I want to run the Diavolo for ~13wpc with certain tubes (300BXLS, 842vhd, VV32B, etc). I have a fluke multi meter, but honestly something really scares me about probing around high voltage for fear that my old clumsy ass will accidentally blow something probing the wrong thing or I'll slip and kill myself, lol. |
Cal3713, I don't have any threads discussing in detail the amps I have used to drive my SV's. Briefly, when I purchased the SVs, I had only the Coincident Frankenstein and Dynamo amps at my disposal. Initially, I had my medium sized room set up in a long wall orientation, so that I was listening near field. Even in that set up, it was pretty clear from the start that the Franks weren't driving the SVs well. Plugging the SVIIs into my existing system, which had previously used Coincident Triumph Extreme II monitors, was a disappointment. I worked pretty hard on the room, setting it up with a short wall configuration and adding about 3K in room treatments, all of which helped, but it was clear the Franks just weren't going to get it done with reasonable listening levels. Way too much distortion, indicating the 300Bs were being driven too hard. A brief evaluation of the EL34 based dynamo, also rated for 8WPC, was less satisfactory than the Frankensteins. At that point I decided to give the Atma-Sphere M-60s a try. While they certainly don't have the classic 300B sound, I found them a much better match for the SVII speakers. I can tell you this. I spent the better part of a day auditioning the Frankensteins driving a pair of PREs in a smallish room near field, and the Franks seem to do just fine with every kind of music I threw at them. Now, I rarely listen to levels beyond about 95 dB peak, so things could be different in a larger room if you go louder, but as I say, I heard the PRE/Frankenstein pair for a long period and never heard a hint of distortion. Hope this is helpful. |
@brownsfan So useful, thanks so much. |
Jcarcopo,
If George is familiar with your amplifier and believes that it's appropriate for the EML meshplate I'd be confident with their use. Unless there's some unforseen synergy issues with your system I believe that you'll really like the meshplate tube. Sonically it was very fine in the Frankenstein .
Charles |
@charles1dad 10/4, I'll know sometime today once the tubes arrive. I really can't wait my to get my Ulfberhts in a few weeks. Still torn between the SE DIs and going all in once and for all, hope I'm making the right choice for my room.
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H Jcarcopo,
If you have the time and inclination let us know your initial listening impressions of the meshplates. Regarding the speaker dilemma, as long as you have adequate space in your listening room I believe that you can’t go wrong with either choice.
Charles |
@charles1dad I will update you as soon as I get them. Unfortunately my shipment is delayed with UPS. Probably weather related. The package seems to still be in NY. They claim it will be here tomorrow for delivery, but the tracking hasn't moved since Friday so I'm not holding my breath. I really am a child waiting for Santa when it comes to audio related deliveries. |
Hi, can you tell me what speaker manufacturer are the SVII and TEII?
Google got confused.
Bob |
@charles1dad I got the mesh plates today! I've got to just say they may very well end up being my new favorite. I perceive better transparency. Micro dynamics seem to be a little more pronounced, but not artificially so. Ambient information seems to be conveyed just better. What really seems to be noticeable is vocals are both startling explosive with dynamics and still nice and smooth. Effortless comes to mind. I might be trading a tad in overall dynamics, but the nuances of improvement seem to be totally worth it. I'm listening to Allison Krauss and Junior Wells/Buddy Guy and the instrumentals seem slightly better delineated with better tonal texture and colors. I hate to say a veil has been lifted because I hate it when reviewers say it ad nauseum, but it's as if I'm noticing an increase of subtle information that was being shadowed by the xls tubes. So far I'm liking the changes, but regardless of the words I'm using this is still a very incremental change at best. It's very much more similiar to the 300b xls than estranged. Startling dynamic vocals and certain instruments popping with more detail is probably the biggest takeaway with the mesh plate. I'm not really a big believer of power tube break in as much as I'm a believer that I adjust to the tubes sound over time. I'll monitor them and do some comparisons after the honeymoon is over and report back in a couple of weeks. |
Hi Jcarcopo,
I was impressed with the EML meshplate right out of the box I understand your positive comments, as I said in an earlier post it's a terrific sounding tube as is the XLS. The meshplate is finesse/nuance yet dynamic. The XLS is dynamic yet nuanced. I find both transparent and high resolution.
I could see someone owning both and enjoying their individual differences which are subtle as you note but clearly noticeable. I wish I could use the meshplate in the Frankenstein. Beautiful sound but failed in just a couple of months. I strongly felt that you'd be happy with this tube.
Charles
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Jdnrbob, Sorry, The SVIIs are Coincident Super Victory IIs and the TEIIs are Coincident Triumph Extreme IIs. The TE IIs are monitors that are no longer manufactured.
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@charles1dad Yes, good call sir. I’m stoked to have 3 fine pairs tubes to roll with. I’m still on the fence on getting a pair of Takatsuki, but parts connexion has them for like $1650 which isn’t bad considering the $2500msrp and the Elrog’s recent bump in price. He listed them on Audiogon a few times, I think I offered him $1450, but he said no. 😂 Now to get Eric some money for some Ulfberts. I have a local audiogoner waiting patiently for up to 2 months to buy my DIs.
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All this 300B tube talk has me wanting to try another pair. I'm currently using the Sophia Royal Princess 300B and am quite happy with them but I've not had any others to compare to. I'm currently on a waiting list for Western Electrics 80th anniversary 300B re-issue due out this September. I have no idea what they will sound like but I can't resist trying out a re-issue of such a classic.
Good luck with your Ulfbehrts, Jcarcopo. I can't imagine you won't be very happy with them. I don't have the room size for them but I couldn't be happier with the SE's. |
Tom,
I used a loaned pair of the Sophia Electric Royal Princess for about 3 weeks and they sounded very good in my Frankenstein. I also had a loaned pair of the Western Electric reissue 300b about 4 years ago but didn't like them in my amplifier. It's certainly quite possible that they could be a better match for your amplifier and you're getting a different version (presumably) of this reissued 300b. People say that the Psvane W.E.Replica is a very good sounding 300b option.
Based on my experience I believe that certain 300b tubes sound better in some amplifiers compared to others. Tom I'm very interested in your listening impressions of the Western Electric reissues once you've heard them in your system. Tom depending on the operation points (O.P.) of your Aric Audio amplifier the EML meshplate could be an option.
The only drawback I note with the upper tier 300bs is they are expensive. But I'll concede they do sound fantastic.
Charles |
Thanks Charles. The WE re-issue tubes are very intriguing to me. The tubes will be built in their brand new, state of the art tube production facility yet using their "secret sauce " metallurgy from the 1930's. They won't be cheap at $1299/matched pair but they do come with a five year warranty.
I'll check with Aric regarding the EML mesh plates as I'll either get them or the XLS to try while awaiting the release of the WE's. Can't have too many tunes on hand as far as I'm concerned!
Tom |
Five year warranty? For real?? |
Yes, five year warranty, for real. I had to revisit their site to make sure I had it right. |
What site? Any chance to preorder or get on a list? Thanks. |
WE 300B 5-year warranty is based on a declining scale in which WE will provide a replacement for defective tubes based on a percentage of the current retail price.
- Year 1 – Free of Charge
- Year 2 – 20% of then current Retail price;
- Year 3 – 40% of then current Retail price;
- Year 4 – 60% of then current Retail price;
- Year 5 – 80% of then current Retail price;
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Now three years later, I’m curious, has the Elrog reliability been proven? |
Actually it is 5 years later and the Elrog tubes are being manufactured under my lead longer now than they had been in the old company. We would not have survived 5 years if we had continued to have the problems of the old company
Best regards
Thomas |
Vinylsavior, thanks for the update. I am very happy to hear that the issues have been addressed. Are you aware of anyone using the newer Elrogs in the Coincident Frankensteins? The old Elrogs were just glorious in those amps, just could not get an acceptable lifetime in those amps. |
brownsfan, Since we are selling mostly through distributors outside Europe, I am not able to track in which amplifiers the tubes are used which are sold through these channels. In Europe I am not aware of Frankenstein users. I did have one customer who uses my preamps who also owned a Frankenstein. I sent him ER300Bs a few years ago. But never heard back and lost contact.
The ER300B was only manufactured for a year and a half under the old company. They brought out the tube too early which caused their bankrucy.
I am producing the tube for 5 years now and have sold many tubes in the meantime |
Thanks Thomas. My common sense tells me that if you had a large number of warranty claims associated with a particular amplifier, you would probably be aware of it.
My advice to anyone considering use of Elrogs with the Frankenstein amps should have a thoughtful discussion with their chosen distributor. Most people, especially those who have been previously disappointed by the short service life of the older Elrogs when used in the Franks are going to be reluctant to spend lots of money on an uncertain outcome. Too bad, because I found those tubes to be superb in that application.
I've moved on from the Frankenstein amps, but had I not, I would run the experiment myself.
Personally, I am appreciative of your hard work and diligence in getting the issues straightened out. |
Hi Thomas,
You have established a 5 year track record of Elrog tube dependability and minimal if any tube failures. I applaud you for that and making a superb sounding tube reliable. In hindsight it seems that the issue all along was poor tube filaments (Construction, design and quality) which were identified and corrected.
Charles |
I'd like to hear directly from present production Elrog 300B users. Until I hear about direct experience as to reliability I can't seriously consider purchasing them.
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I have a pair of Elrog ER00B about a year old and have had no problems, no noise, just beautiful sound. The only caveat is that I’ve used them lightly in my Vinnie Rossi LIO DHT so the LIO isn’t hard on tubes to begin with, I don’t have a lot hours on them and I no longer use the LIO.
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I’ve owned Elrog 300B’s and TBH I feel they are overrated. Was disappointed during my ownership and felt the tubes were on the lean sounding side. I contacted Thomas Mayer and his response was they are lower gain 300B’s.
-Alex
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Alex,
It just goes to show that no matter how good any particular audio product is it won’t please everyone. The Elrogs certainly were not lean sounding in my amplifier/audio system. The tone was full bodied and quite organic and alive in its sonic character.
Furthermore as stated previously some tubes are just better matches with some components compared to others. I’m pretty sure that there is someone somewhere who found the Elrogs too rich and warm in their audio system and as a result are disappointed .
Charles |
