Alex,
It just goes to show that no matter how good any particular audio product is it won’t please everyone. The Elrogs certainly were not lean sounding in my amplifier/audio system. The tone was full bodied and quite organic and alive in its sonic character.
Furthermore as stated previously some tubes are just better matches with some components compared to others. I’m pretty sure that there is someone somewhere who found the Elrogs too rich and warm in their audio system and as a result are disappointed .
Charles |
Hi Thomas,
You have established a 5 year track record of Elrog tube dependability and minimal if any tube failures. I applaud you for that and making a superb sounding tube reliable. In hindsight it seems that the issue all along was poor tube filaments (Construction, design and quality) which were identified and corrected.
Charles |
Tom,
I used a loaned pair of the Sophia Electric Royal Princess for about 3 weeks and they sounded very good in my Frankenstein. I also had a loaned pair of the Western Electric reissue 300b about 4 years ago but didn't like them in my amplifier. It's certainly quite possible that they could be a better match for your amplifier and you're getting a different version (presumably) of this reissued 300b. People say that the Psvane W.E.Replica is a very good sounding 300b option.
Based on my experience I believe that certain 300b tubes sound better in some amplifiers compared to others. Tom I'm very interested in your listening impressions of the Western Electric reissues once you've heard them in your system. Tom depending on the operation points (O.P.) of your Aric Audio amplifier the EML meshplate could be an option.
The only drawback I note with the upper tier 300bs is they are expensive. But I'll concede they do sound fantastic.
Charles |
Hi Jcarcopo,
I was impressed with the EML meshplate right out of the box I understand your positive comments, as I said in an earlier post it's a terrific sounding tube as is the XLS. The meshplate is finesse/nuance yet dynamic. The XLS is dynamic yet nuanced. I find both transparent and high resolution.
I could see someone owning both and enjoying their individual differences which are subtle as you note but clearly noticeable. I wish I could use the meshplate in the Frankenstein. Beautiful sound but failed in just a couple of months. I strongly felt that you'd be happy with this tube.
Charles
|
H Jcarcopo,
If you have the time and inclination let us know your initial listening impressions of the meshplates. Regarding the speaker dilemma, as long as you have adequate space in your listening room I believe that you can’t go wrong with either choice.
Charles |
Jcarcopo,
If George is familiar with your amplifier and believes that it's appropriate for the EML meshplate I'd be confident with their use. Unless there's some unforseen synergy issues with your system I believe that you'll really like the meshplate tube. Sonically it was very fine in the Frankenstein .
Charles |
Autospell strikes again, in the final paragraph should be overall subtle "distinctions" not destinations. |
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the thoughtful and clear description of your 2 audio systems.
I can understand not wanting to move equipment around if it isn’t a simple task. Your summary of the 2 respective amplifiers is on the mark. I had an opportunity to hear the Frankenstein and Atma-sphere MA-1 head to head in a friend’s system who had easily driven speakers. Essentially it is
2nd order harmonics(just a dash as you wrote) versus the 3rd order harmonics character of the MA-1.
The Frankenstein came off a bit fuller tone and harmonically richer.
The MA-1 a bit leaner and faster. Overall subtle destinations, both were exceptionally open,transparent and very lively. You have two excellent power amplifiers with their individual sonic signature.
Charles |
George is is a honest and straightforward person. I bough my EMLs and Elrogs from him. He firmly stood by me and provided excellent customer service during my Elrog failure episodes.
Charles |
Jcarcopo,
I tried the EML meshplate in my Frankenstein several years ago. The operating points(O.P.) in this amplifier are too demanding for this more delicate 300b and so durability is poor. If a 300b amplifier is gentle in terms of O.P. then the meshplate tube is a very viable option. I will tell you that the EML meshplate is absolutely beautiful sounding.
A bit less dynamic than the XLS but very airy with much finesse. A different sonic perspective from its EML sibbling. If I had the appropriate amplifier I could be exceptionally happy with both of these. The XLS is an ultra built, robust 300b that sounds superb. A wonderful fit with the my Frankenstein SET yielding a powerful, tactile and very natural sonic character.
Charles |
Bill,
Well you do have 2 very fine audio systems to enjoy when some struggle to develop just one. Of course you know how I value your listening impressions and perspectives. What are the essential differences (If any) you hear between the 2 systems playing the same music. I realize that one uses full range speakers (Super Victory) and the other monitors on stands (Triumph Extreme). If must be quite nice to have both a first rate SET mono blocks and OTL mono block amplifiers for enjoying your classical music library. Have you tried the M 60s with the Triumph Extremes?
Charles |
Hi Bill,
It good see a post from you, it reminds me of the of the good old days on this forum 😊. To be fair you just might find the Elrog superior and may prefer it based on your own comparison. The Elrog certainly is a excellent sounding tube with its undeniable strengths. You could find the gap between the Elrog and EML XLS perhaps a bit wider than jcarcopo or myself.
As I wrote above when all is considered sonically across the full spectrum the XLS does acquit itself very well.Bill some say that the Psvane W.E Replica 300b is an excellent tube and probably a bit more organic and midrange centric relative to the EML XLS.
I don’t envision Elrog (or any tube manufacturer) producing a surplus of their tubes and dumping them here at ultra low cost, so I believe we’re safe from tariffs 😊😊.
Charles |
Hi jacarcopo,
I glad to hear that the current Elrogs are seemingly more durable compared to the earlier versions I had. Despite our different Amplifiers/audio systems I find our listening impressions virtually identical. Yes I’d say that the Elrog is just a little bit smoother, warmer and organic in presentation. The EML XLS is more dynamic and authoritative yet retains an organic character and is by no means a "cool" sonic presentation IMO.
The XLS is as you note very robust and well built. There are reports that early versions of this tube are approaching 40,000 hours of use and yet still are able to test as new. By any standard this is impressive! I did enjoy the Elrog in my Coincident Frankenstein amplifier but honestly I don’t feel as though I’ve lost anything with the EML XLS (Just subtle differences and tradeoffs) . At this juncture I’m very pleased with them and don’t anticipate a tube change.
The XLS isn’t inexpensive itself but does offer excellent sound quality and apparently extraordinary lifespan/ reliability. After over 3 years of heavy near daily use mine tested exactly the same as the day I got them.
Charles |
Hello Thomas,
I'm aware of your well established reputation for building very high quality custom amplifiers over many years. I've read with much interest your detailed descriptions of the planing, design and construction process posted on your site. Knowing that you've taken over production of the Elrog tubes does inspire me and elevates my level of confidence.
I'm the owner of the Coincident Frankenstein MK II amplifier and George Lenz did honorably replace my failed 300b on 3 separate occasions without any resistance on his part. I know that he was frustrated with the tube failures but he kept his word and never wavered, I'll always remember the support provided by him.
I will give the "new" Elrog 300b some consideration to try again.
1. My experience with the tubes was obviously a poor one in terms of reliability.
2. My listening experience with the tubes in my Frankenstein was truly fabulous. The best I've had thus far in terms of musical realism and emotional involvement/engagement.
Thomas thank you for the Elrog situation update and explanation. If the Elrog can approach the trouble free workhorse durability of the excellent EML XLS this would be an amazingly good outcome.
Charles |
Hello Gary,
I'm relieved to report that the Elrog tube failures did not harm my amplifiers at all. I know that the magnificent Takatsuki 300bs are serving you well 😊
Charles |
I believe that Mike’s experience with the Elrog in his Lampizator DAC unfortunately has minimal relevance to its performance in a power amplifier,. I’d assume that far greater demands are placed on the tube tasked with driving speaker loads. It is as he describes sonically beautiful in character.
Stringreen, the Elrog sound quality has been discussed and compared with many other 300bs in several different threads (I’ve been fortunate to have heard 11 different types in my amplifier over the years) . As I’ve said before the Elrog is the very best in sound quality "but" it doesn’t by any means embarrass other top tier 300bs. The gaps are subtle.
Stringreen if you have found a SS amplifier that pleases you as much or more than a tube amplifier, sincere congratulations to you. There’s no logical reason for you or others to own a tube amplifier. This hasn’t been my experience by any stretch. As Brownsfan stated, the SET tube power amplifier listening experience is above and beyond what I have heard with transistors. So this is simply a matter of our individual sonic objectives.
No intention of the tired tube vs transistors debate resurrection. My point is, only that these premium 300b tubes in the right amplifiers have taken my music listening to higher ground..
Charles |
Hi Bill,
Well I did indeed have 3 failed attempts with the Elrog 300b and excellent support from George at tubesusa.com, the tube failures sure weren’t his fault. This is a classic example of superb sound vs product unreliability. No doubt about it, the Elrog was stellar in my amplifier.
Who wants to be a 1200.00 dollar beta tester? Good question bfr. It’s interesting how we are able to accommodate change over time. I returned to my EML XLS an excellent 300b that I truly enjoy listening to (this is an exceptionally robust and reliable tube). It’s only with direct comparison where I can say that the Elrog is a bit more nuanced and organic thus a bit more emotional. The gap between them is small but detectable. The EML XLS is as dynamic, perhaps more so. Honestly in my particular SET amplifier both tubes (along with the Takatsuki) are wonderful music conveyors.
I’d need to know precisely what has been done to improve the durability of the Elrog. A full year warranty for a tube does suggest a high degree of confidence from the manufacturer. Bill I’ll say that I am curious about this new and "improved " version. I’ll read the article posted by Al. I feel no sense of urgency to try the Elrog at the moment.
Charles |
