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eBay / PayPal: Beware - enough is never enough.

OK, I'm just venting here, but maybe some folks will find some useful information in this...


  • eBay's New 'system' for screwing you, uhh, I meant 'paying you'.
You've all had the emails and gone into your eBay account to accept the new system for getting paid, right?

In the old days, we could sell a pair of $4,000 speakers on eBay and the buyer could pay you and the money would be transferred to your PayPal account instantly. PayPal would dock their fees and eBay would reconcile your monthly sales and charge you fees at the end of the month based on what you sold. Not so anymore.

You sell your $4000 speakers, for which the buyer has paid, let's say $350 for shipping. Now, eBay holds on to ALL the funds, including the shipping payment, until the item is delivered!

So, you have to fund the shipping fees from your own pocket while eBay sits on YOUR money. What if you don't have the $350 and need the money the seller has paid you to fund buying the shipping labels?? Tough Luck. (how can this even be legal, never mind ethical?)
Then, what happens when UPS loses the package?? Some 'robot' at eBay arbitrarily decides that you don't get your money because their automated system indicates the item wasn't delivered. Now you have to wrangle with UPS, meanwhile, your money is sitting in eBays vaults earning them interest.

What a joke.


  • eBay screws you for NON-SHIPMENT
Here's another example of eBay screwing you - this happened to me in January.

I listed a big/heavy item, $3000 + $160 fixed rate UPS shipping

A prospective buyer contacts me to ask if he could pay for shipping through his business UPS account because he thinks he can get a better rate. Fine.

I agree, he hits 'Buy Now', and I send him an eBay invoice without shipping costs. (THIS IS BEFORE THE NEW EBAY SYSTEM WHERE THEY HOLD YOUR MONEY!)

I pack the item and contact the buyer showing photos of the packing process, supply the dimensions and weight, and request that he sends shipping labels and arranges for UPS to pick it up from my address, all as agreed prior to the sale.
A week goes by, nothing. I contact him and tell him I need to get this out of my space, can he send the labels.
After almost 3 weeks he emails me through eBay and just says 'I want a refund'. I message back and say no fric*en way. We go back and forth, he opens a dispute with eBay. I counter and also open a ticket with eBay and provide all of the correspondence and documentation, which is all sitting in my eBay messages account anyway.

A few days go by and eBay decides in his favor, removes the money from my PayPal account, and enters an invisible 'STRIKE' against my selling account for NON SHIPMENT!!! (I only found this out after speaking with an eBay customer service manager, don't even ask how long that took).

So basically I have to start over trying to sell the item as this loser couldn't get a decent shipping rate through his UPS account, and wouldn't pay the $160 that was listed with the ad. And eBay PUNISHES ME for non-shipment!
Word to the wise - Don't allow the buyer to organize shipping. Even 'local pickup' is fraught, should they just decide not to turn up.


  • PayPal Screws Sellers Under Their Seller Protection Program
Be super careful to read the small print when you sell and ship an item after being paid through PayPal, even when their system tells you that your transaction is covered by their Seller Protection Program. It isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Let me demonstrate by flipping this around and assuming the role of the BUYER to illustrate what a joke their Seller Protection Program is when you really need it the most - 

I'm a BUYER and I want to scam someone and get a nice $2000 CD Player for free. 
I pay using my PayPal account and the seller ships it to me, he thinks it's safe to ship 'cos he's qualified for PayPal's Seller Protection....ha ha.

The trick is, I need to use the credit card linked to my PayPal account to fund the transaction, using PayPal only to provide the gateway for the deception. 
The item arrives. I then file a dispute with my CC company (Not PayPal). I state on the dispute that the item received was 'NOT AS DESCRIBED' (no other wording or explanation needed). Bingo. My CC company instigates a charge-back and I've got myself a free CD Player.

Switching back to the seller's angle - 
I wake up to see that $2000 has been removed from my PayPal account pending a review. After X days, and after my complying with all documentation requests, PayPal informs me that the item I shipped was 'not as described' and that I'm NOT entitled to Seller Protection because their system excludes instances where a third-party credit card was used to fund the transaction, and where the Credit Card company authorized the charge-back!!

What, you're kidding me, right? NO. Read the terms of the seller protection program and it's clearly stated.

Also, even if the buyer uses PayPal funds from their account, you can still end up getting screwed. You MUST always enter the shipping information inside of PayPal -  a full tracking number. Always use 'adult signature' and always ship to the verified address on PayPal. If the buyer emails you after sending payment and gives you a different shipping address, send a refund and walk away. Trying to enter tracking numbers for proof of delivery retroactively after a dispute has been started, may land you in a situation where PayPal find in favor of the buyer, refund them the money from the transaction, AND, decline to reimburse you under the Seller Protection program because you didn't follow the requirements of the program post-sale. This isn't speculation. I've read many forum posts where people have shipped an item believing it safe to do so, then had the money removed from their account by PayPal following a dispute, even though the initial transaction was shown to qualify for Seller Protection at the time of sale.


  • PayPal hangs on to your refunded money for as long as they care to.
Even when a transaction between buyer and seller is harmonious, PayPal can still find a way to screw with you.

Perhaps this is a less egregious example of PayPal's utter disregard for their customers, but valid nevertheless. And a warning to those of you using a linked credit card to fund a PayPal purchase - 

(I'm in the midst of dealing with this now, outcome unknown).

I buy an item for $2000 using PayPal, funded from a linked Credit Card.
After a few weeks, the item hasn't shipped and I ask the supplier that the order be canceled and the money refunded (to PayPal). 
The seller complies with my request and I see the refund issued inside my PayPal account. 
After a few days, I log in to my Credit Card account but the refund hasn't been credited through from PayPal, so there's a $2000 charge on my account, and payment due pretty soon.

I wait a week and still nothing. I look closely at the transaction inside my PayPal account and see this -

"Refunded. Pending Until" Pending until when? It doesn't say. I open a ticket inside my PayPal account to ask how long I'm supposed to wait to get MY MONEY back. After 24 hours the ticket is responded to. The PayPal operator responds with "Please let us know your first and last name and we'll be happy to help". Remember, this is a ticket opened inside my PayPal account and after I've logged in!! They know who I am, FFS!

After 9 days of PP holding on to my refunded money, just arbitrarily and without any explanation or forecast as to when I'll receive it, my credit card payment is due. The only balance on my card is the $2000 transaction and I need to pay it to avoid interest since it's been a month since the original transaction. However - CREDIT CARD COMPANIES MAY SUSPEND YOUR ACCOUNT SHOULD A REFUNDED PAYMENT RESULT IN A POSITIVE ACCOUNT BALANCE, OR REJECT AN INCOMING TRANSACTION THAT WOULD APPLY A POSITIVE BALANCE TO YOUR ACCOUNT.

Yes, I was given this information from the CC company. It's something to do with the Patriot Act and preventing Credit Card accounts from being used erroneously to send money illegally from overseas. So, if I pay off the $2000 statement balance, then a few days later, the refund is miraculously posted from PayPal, the incoming credit MAY be rejected by my CC company. So where does it go? IN LIMBO? (Note to Catholics, you thought limbo was removed from the Catholic Catechism, but they were just messing with you, sorry). 

Remember, this is my money - the supplier refunded it. Now I'm at risk of it disappearing into some finance system's black hole because PayPal won't just refund it promptly.

Rant Over.

There are many documented examples of what little regard these companies have for the rights of the consumer (YOU HAVE FEW RIGHTS), and how little they care about anything other than growing their bottom line.

I can't believe there isn't a class-action lawsuit (multiple) against these companies. Oh, yeah, PayPal is owned by eBay, but....legally, they're two separate corporate entities. I wonder why that is, exactly.

Have a nice day!

Rooze


128x128rooze
86 responses Add your response
lowrider57's avatar
lowrider57
5,417 posts
 
I don't like that generating a shipping label is part of the process. I have my own carrier accounts.
Now Ebay is involved with shipping costs.

phantom_av's avatar
phantom_av
326 posts
 
eBay is getting worse and worse as a platform to sell on, the double fee charged, Ebays Commission and then Paypal. 
inna
7,296 posts
 
Stop using your computers and phones and the Big Tech won't own America. They are just parasites and do the only thing they can do.We keep whining like mules and squeal like pigs instead of acting. Is this American now ?
cd318
2,636 posts
 
@inna,

Not so easy.

I’ve got Firefox and Duck-duckGo on my phone and keep well away from the evils of Facebook and Instagram.

However there’s still YouTube, Amazon, and eBay which prove very difficult dispense with. As well as that notorious phone battery/privacy killer Whatsapp.


As for eBay, I’ve personally discovered, that although the prices can be good and bargains can still be found, eBay can still be a minefield for the buyer and and the seller.

You’d also think it must be in the interests of the shareholders of eBay to make it is as glitchfree as any trading between human beings can ever be.

It did also appear, not too long ago that eBay was trying to distance itself from PayPal.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/02/ebay-to-replace-paypal-with-adyen-what-it-means-for-you/
Ag insider logo xs@2x
vip428
12 posts
 
Yes eBay’s managed payments is a technically flawed system on many levels!  Dill some of your statements are accurate, using the eBay shipping system is a must.  However EBay is technically now acting as an “Escrow Agent”.  And as such is now subject to a different standard.  They are trying to circumvent law in this matter by using the term “managed payment”.   This is evidence by my complaint that I have to wait until mid June for the release of funds because the buyer is in Thailand and he has to acknowledge satisfactory receipt.  I took many pictures of what I send anyway to protect myself against the possible claim is that I got an empty box.  eBay initially was very responsive saying that the times would change once I successfully completed 12 transactions. Well what happened to the couple of hundred prior successful transactions dating back over 20 years, they don’t matter?  But all communication STOPPED when I said they were in fact potentially violating the law.  As an escrow agent they are held to a different fiduciary standard and funds must be held in a separate trust account with no co mingling of corporate funds and any accrued benefit such as accumulated interest must be passed along.  This doesn’t pass the smell test and can possibly lead to a class action filing.  Why call it “Managed Payment”. When you are in Fact acting as an Escrow Agent”. I can forward my emails showing their responses and then they went dark, when I confronted them.

This is NOT how e-commerce should work!  The buyer pays, the seller ships.  That simple.  You vet sellers to make sure they are valid and responsible by their transaction history.  They maintain a funding source via their credit.  If there is a problem then and only then should you withhold or withdraw funds, NOT in advance.  The funds are NOT in my bank account.  They are in your account.  Is this a secured escrow account where EBay Is NOT the beneficiary in any way such as Interest accumulation, Credit Utilization, Financial Leveraging?  In many States what you would be doing is Illegal!  Escrow accounts should be of NO benefit to the agent in this case YOU, EBay.  I am making a formal filing for discovery on this matter via all legal channels available to me.  If necessary even seeking a Class Action Suit to insure complete transparency.

Sent from my iPhone
On May 14, 2021, at 8:08 AM, customerhelp@ebay.com wrote:

Follow-up email SR# 1-322973740013

Hello John,

 

This is a follow-up email to your recent contact to eBay regarding your funds. I know the importance of getting your funds released.

 

I assure you that the money is in your bank account already it is just on hold. You have done the right thing by shipping the item and uploading the tracking information as this will expedite the release of your funds. Upon, reviewing the tracking, I can see that the item is in transits. Hence, as soon as we receive the delivery confirmation, the funds should be released within 24 hours. 

 

Here are few ways to get your funds automatically in the future:

 

- 1 day or shortly after delivery confirmation

- 2 days after item has been sold, if no tracking was used, we'll check for positive feedback. If positive feedback has been received, you'll receive the funds within 24 hours.

- 6 days after the estimated delivery date (if no tracking was provided but the item was marked as dispatched)

- 21 days after the buyer pays

 

We temporarily hold funds to encourage practices that result in successful order fulfillment and create a safe marketplace for both buyers and sellers like you.

 

Right now, you would need to complete 12 more transaction to graduate from the program and get your funds quicker.

 

For more information about payment holds, you may refer to the link below:

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/getting-paid-items-youve-sold/pending-payments?id=4155


dill
2,530 posts
 
Did you ship the item overseas? If so, did you use the eBay's Global Shipping program? I don't ever ship overseas so I don't know about withholding funds until proof of delivery. The overseas buyers, that buy from me, use a freight forwarding outfit based in the USA and my duty is only to get the item to them. They take care of the final leg of the journey and is paid by the buyer.
rooze's avatar
rooze OP
638 posts
 
@dill

I received email notification of the sale as usual.
The email said ‘your item has been paid for, it’s safe to ship’, pretty much the same as always.
I logged in to my account and looked at the order. It showed a fancy 3-step status bar which is new. I can’t recall this exactly but it was basically- Order paid - Pending Shipping- Payout On Delivery.
There were various new links around the order detail page. One just says ‘Getting Paid’. That lead to a page explaining the new process.

Right on the order page there’s a date for estimated payout, and in my case it was June 17, 30 days from making the sale.

It shows the usual statement, listing price, shipping paid, sub total, payout amount minus fees ($530).
There’s no ambiguity here. There was a clear link from the order detail page under ‘when will I Get Paid’ and it clearly stated the hold on funds until the item is delivered.... with the anomaly that the estimated payout date was 4 weeks hence and not the 8-10 days or so it would take to process and ship from VA to TX.
It did not instruct me to create a label through eBay, only to enter the tracking number as with the previous system, it did also give me the option to buy shipping through eBay, as before.

In this instance, on being told that my funds were being held, and that the estimated release date was a month forward, I reluctantly cancelled the order and deleted all my listings of $50 or more.
Now then, it clearly states in the new eBay policy that payment will be sent within 2 days. There’s nothing I could find relating to having funds held until the shipment arrives, or longer. Clearly my account is/was treated differently than their own policy states, and I couldn’t see any reason for that. But I’m not alone, there are many forum dwellers complaining about the same thing.
What grates is that I wasn’t told prior to the sale being made that I wouldn’t get paid, potentially for a whole month. I found out post sale. They could’ve told me when creating the listing but they waited until a buyer had committed the funds. I’m not willing to have $4000 sitting in eBay’s coffers due to some invisible ruling on my account, so I canceled the order, which, of course, instigated a refund to the buyer.

Yes, I could’ve opened a ticket asking “what gives”, but have you ever dealt with these people? And it’s usually an AI answering questions of this nature which only adds to the frustration.
I’ve opted to vote with my feet. I’m just saying to others reading this thread to double check before shipping an item.
rooze's avatar
rooze OP
638 posts
 
Here’s the email announcing the new system, there’s nothing about having funds held pending delivery. Again, the lack of transparency.

eBay is now managing payments for your account

As a reminder, eBay is now managing payments for your account, which means:

  • •

    You get paid directly to your bank account, not your PayPal account. IMPORTANT: If you haven’t already done so, please add a bank account so you can get paid. You can add your bank account from the new Selling Overview page on My eBay. 

  • ◦

    Note: You may receive a separate message to add or verify your information.

  • •

    No more PayPal payment processing fees. No more separate monthly fee payments. You will pay an updated final value fee, consisting of a variable category-based percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus a fixed fee per order. Most sellers will pay the same or less than before.* See fee details

  • •

    Your buyers can now pay for items they purchase from you with credit, debit, and gift cards, Apple Pay, Google Pay, PayPal, and PayPal Credit.

What’s more

  • •

    You can access everything you need on eBay: consolidated fees, refunds, returns, and more.

  • •

    We will automatically deduct your eBay selling fees, expenses, and costs from your earnings before you get paid. The remainder of your earnings will go directly to your bank account.

  • •

    You can cover the costs of refunds and other charges from your bank account or credit card when your earnings are not sufficient to cover the refund amount.

  • •

    We will initiate payouts within two business days from when the buyer pays. You may choose to receive available funds to your bank account weekly or daily, as funds are available. Learn more about payouts.


dill
2,530 posts
 
Evidently, they determined, maybe because of the amount, the transaction to be a risk.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/getting-paid-items-youve-sold/pending-payments?id=415...

  When funds become available

Here are the time frames when your payment will become available:

  • Within 24 hours after we confirm the order was delivered if you pay for shipping and print labels on eBay.
  • Within 24 hours after we confirm the order was delivered if you ship directly using USPS, UPS or FedEx and manually enter your tracking information to My eBay.
  • 6 days after the latest estimated delivery date if you don’t upload tracking information, but you mark the item as shipped in My eBay.
  • 21 days after the buyer pays if you don't provide tracking information, mark the item as shipped, or the estimated delivery date can't be calculated. In such cases, we may use buyer feedback as a delivery confirmation along with other factors.

We may also hold funds for 21 days if we determine the transaction to be a risk. Category, price, and seller standing can all contribute to this decision. You can identify this by the estimated release date in the sold section of My eBay.


thefile's avatar
thefile
42 posts
 
Now Ebay wants access to our bank account. NO WAY. I am quitting eBay
rooze's avatar
rooze OP
638 posts
 
@dill 
Yes, evidently my transaction was flagged in some way, but how, exactly, and why not flag it and notify me at the time of listing, and not after a sale is made? Wouldn’t that make sense? 
It seems by doing it after a sale, they’re trying to manipulate a choice you should be entitled to make at the start of the selling process, and doing so in an entirely underhanded way. Post sale, you now have the choice of waiting for a month to get paid, having just forked over the shipping cost out of your own pocket, even though money expressly committed for shipping costs has been furnished by the buyer, or... canceling the sale. If you cancel the transaction you’re inconveniencing the buyer, I’m certain their money will float around the system for a few days before it hits their account. Also, you’re back to square one sitting on an unsold item and now looking for a new selling platform. They’re trying to give you a Hobson’s Choice and I’m basically saying “stick it”.

(for those who haven’t followed my previous comments, my eBay account was opened in 2015, I’ve a 100% feedback and have bought and sold items of a similar value to the item in question)

audiofoolz
6 posts
 
A good thread, worthwhile reading through it.

I do not sell my no longer needed gear anymore, rather give it away to someone who is a budding audiophile. Granted, the avg used price of what I am giving away is $300 or less.
My take on this: not worth the hassle of selling my used gear, life is too short. Plus, getting new audiophiles in the loop is good for everyone.  And building up my 'karmic points' an added bonus.


sokogear
1,096 posts
 
I would check out the feedback of the buyer and seller and comments. Honest people will make sure the person they are doing business with is satisfied. I like US Audio Mart. No fees. They let you connect directly with the person you are entering a transaction with. How they buy or sell to or from you is a good indicator, along with their feedback as to how things will turn out.
ebm
9,311 posts
 
Very sad keep bad raping EVERYTHING!!
oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948
502 posts
 
I only use US Audio Mart and this site for selling stereo equipment over $250, and only sell to people with close to 100% favorable reviews.  I also look at their number of transactions.  Knock on wood, I've never had a PayPal problem. 

I rarely use eBay for selling; I occasionally use it for buying.  When I began reading eBay's new rules, I stopped after a few paragraphs because it was too convoluted.  Thanks OP for the writeup.  
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huynhh1
11 posts
 
Hi rooze, after looking for a CJ et5 here for a very long time without success I saw your ebay post and bought it (via Buy Now because of your stellar reviews) only to be notified that it had been cancelled soon after. I would have preferred to buy it here since my experience here far exceeds my ebay experience. I'm still waiting for my refund from ebay so it seems they hold funds from buyers as well. Moral of the story for me is to buy hifi here even if the pickings seem slim at times.
hbarrel's avatar
hbarrel
342 posts
 
If you have direct deposit from your employer… they have access to the account which your paycheck is deposited. So if an accounting error occurs ( they pay you too much, fat chance) they can recoup the overpayment. At least that was my understanding when I finally succumbed to direct deposit due to no choice in the matter. (Literally the last to so do. I liked getting a paycheck.)
inna
7,296 posts
 
cd318, you are right, you are right. It's virtually impossible to do what I suggest, it's a phantasy, I just wanted to introduce another angle for mentalizing. But the spirit of this phantasy might be considered and I think should be considered. In the long run, we often hurt ourselves without realizing it until it's almost too late. We sometimes create monsters and are good at it.
I try to minimize my involvement with hi tech of any kind, but in the last 30 years or so the environment has changed so much and it has been changed by so many people. We are becoming a computer dependent race, question is to what degree. One more step and we'll get brain implants. They are already experimenting with that for soldiers, I heard.
Well, I could say that I am whining like mule too, but not only.
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook's avatar
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook
981 posts
 
Lots of info here....some not factual.  I have about 30,000 Feedbacks on EBAY and probably more than 2X that amount of transactions since the 1990's.
If you sell something on EBAY you DO NOT have to use their "shipping service" or whatever.  I do not even own a label printer which you MUST have if your going to go thru the EBAY shipping service.  I still go to FEDEX or the Post Office and do everything the old fashion way without any mailing labels.  You just come home and enter the Tracking #'s into the EBAY system and your fine.
If your a BUYER and get screwed for whatever reason NEVER go thru PAYPAL to file a claim. Call up your Credit Card company and you should be "Credited" immediately. If you go thru Paypal you will WAIT a long time AND they might deem your claim as invalid or whatever. Why let them determine your fate??
If you havent sold anything on EBAY for what they consider to be a prolonged period of time OR if your a Newbie they WILL HOLD your funds until the item is marked as DELIVERED on the other end.  This is not the case for the majority of sellers obviously.
If youve been selling on EBAY for the past 20 years PAYPAL Already has your Bank Account information.  Why people are complaining about EBAY having that info is beyond me.  You were OK with PAYPAL having that info but not EBAY??  Up until about 5 years ago PAYPAL was owned by EBAY before it was spun off.


whipsaw
758 posts
 
@riaa_award...(above) is essentially correct.

The uproar over giving bank details to eBay is silly, given that Paypal has been using the very same details for almost all of the people who are complaining.

The issue that I do object to strenuously is this:

If you havent sold anything on EBAY for what they consider to be a prolonged period of time...they WILL HOLD your funds until the item is marked as DELIVERED on the other end

It infuriates me because if, as in my case, a member has hundreds of transactions with zero negative feedback, then why the hell should he be considered a risk simply because he hasn’t sold anything recently?

It’s ridiculous, and I basically stopped selling on eBay as a result.
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook's avatar
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook
981 posts
 
I concur its ridiculous. I was just laying out their policy...not approving of it. Just want to make that clear :) I still shop on EBAY every single day BUT might sell like 10-20 items a year now instead of being a "Power Seller". I now use Auction Houses instead....let the millionaires fight over my unwanted memorabilia. Should have switched 15 years ago.
As somebody pointed out above....the whole INCOME TAX thing being reported next year and beyond (1099 Form) for sales of more than $600 Annually should scare the hell out of a lotta people. THAT would be my #1 reason for not selling on the site. These other complaints pale in comparison...to me anyway.  I have probably 12-15 Vintage receivers from the 70's laying around that I need to get rid of. Going to have to make sure they are all sold on EBAY before the end of the year.
dill
2,530 posts
 
riaa - You do not have to have a label printer, you can print the label on a regular piece of paper, cut to size and tape to the package. Also there is a good discount by buying the label from eBay verses the post office. Labels from FedEx & UPS are available too.
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook's avatar
riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook
981 posts
 
 Thanks Dill....I dont own ANY kind of printer which I guess is what I should have said.  Postage is paid by the buyer so the rate Im charged doesnt matter to me. I have a FEDEX business account so there is already a discount. Internationally I can sometimes get up to a 80% discount from Fedex.  Packages to Europe can cost less than if they were going to California...Crazy!!
martinb0820
19 posts
 
Try US Audio Mart. I've had excellent buying and selling experiences there.
hartf36's avatar
hartf36
206 posts
 
Longtime eBayer (20 years, 600 transactions, 100% positive feedback).  An increase in scamming “buyers” the last few years, eBay consistently siding with those buyers in disputes the last few years and this new selling policy have finally done it for me.  I’ve moved to Bonanza to see what they’re about.  Selling fees look to be way less and the platform looks like the one used on Reverb.  I’m not interested in another eBay goat-rope originating from this new policy.  Nuffsenuff.
whipsaw
758 posts
 
... the last few years, eBay consistently siding with those buyers in disputes the last few years and this new selling policy have finally done it for me.

Ah, an opening for a related rant. Three years ago I sold a vintage (’40s) wristwatch on eBay. The buyer had a U.S. address, and the watch was delivered fairly quickly. About 30 days later I received a message from the buyer, saying that he had received the watch. I found that strange, but forgot about until soon after, when I received a notice from eBay saying that the buyer was requesting a return, based on the item "not being as described". What, specifically, was his complaint? That it was not running accurately.

Well, as always, I had made it clear in the advert that I had no idea of the last date of service, that it should receive one for regular wear, and that I made no claims of accuracy. So, it was a ~75 year old watch without a recent service, described correctly. Yet eBay not only decided in the buyer’s favor, but said that I had to pay the return postage, as well.

So the first outrage was that they sided with a buyer who made a false claim. But things were just becoming interesting, as the parcel was shipped back from Japan! That was the second clue that led me to the obvious conclusion, namely that he had been using a proxy forwarding service in the U.S.

Now, that, in and of itself, is not against eBay rules. However, using such services automatically disqualifies buyers from returning any items! This makes sense, of course, as who knows how they are handled, re-packed, etc.

I don’t want to burden readers with too much detail, but eBay was HIGHLY resistant to my claim, and I literally had to do some detective work in order to prove that a forwarding company had been used. By the time that eBay was willing to admit that I was correct, the watch had already been shipped, and they were basically unable to do anything to to correct the infuriating situation.

What pissed me off the most is that they made a unilateral decision without giving me any opportunity to respond. Had they waited a couple of days, I could have proven my case, and the watch would never have been returned.

I haven’t sold an item on eBay since.

rspyder
98 posts
 
Thanks for the screw-over synopsis of eBay and PP transactions.  These posts are becoming more common.  That's why I don't do transactions using either and I don't deal with buyers or sellers unless they have a long and untarnished record. 

The other problem is people are too polite and not sufficiently honest in their reviews, which leaves those who rely on accurate reviews exposed.  I had a Canuck buyer who closed on a sale and then back out for no reason.  I was two hours from shipping the cables to him.  I left a thorough and honest review to warn those looking to transact in the future with that individual.

paradisecom
319 posts
 
Fleabay screwed me over years ago, as well.  I had over 20 years of 100% feedback with them and a buyer in the UK screwed me.  He filed a false "not as described" claim, got his refund right away and shipped back the "item."  I had a funny feeling about the whole deal and made a video of myself unwrapping and opening the package when it arrived.  I sold a NIB set of car audio subwoofer drivers.  I got a set of old door speakers from the junk yard in return.
I plead my case with Fleabay and even offered to send video proof of the buyers deception.  They still sided with him.  So, I closed my account and at that time, I owed a balance of nearly $700 for sellers fees.  Too bad for them.  They can eat it just like they made me eat the shitty speakers I got back. 

I posted the video on YouTube with a factual description, hoping that it may help others to avoid that scammer.  It was up for a few years, but then I think he complained to YouTube and they deleted it.  I got some comments from it from other Fleabayers that got screwed too, so I think it was putting a kink in his scamming.  I don't know.
These big corporations are just out of control, yet they have so much money, they get their way all the time, crushing us like insects.  I try avoiding using them and avoid buying stuff made in China as much as possible. 
fdemello
80 posts
 
Have to agree totally with Rooze based on a recent experience I had.
My first really bad one in 20+ years of selling my items (I am not running a business) but I am pretty cautious now.

Had a pristine pair of Rogers speakers. Only owner and meticulously cared for. They were on Craigslist/US Audiomart. Sold them to a buyer for $1500 via Paypal which included packing/shipping which was expensive ($250). They were professionally packed.
Buyer decided he didn't like them, requested a refund from Paypal for "Item Not As Described". He said all speakers were damaged and did not work. They approved the return. So the sale funds are deducted from my account. I am out the $250 to deliver, and to make things worse he returns them damaged.
I spent 6 months in Paypal's dispute system which is BRUTAL. I proved with documentation, audio/video files that they worked perfectly and the buyer had lied. I had dated before/after pictures clearly showing how extensively they were damaged.  There was no evidence of shipping damage.
Paypal finally gave me $500 to go away but I spent upwards of 100 hours on this. As a seller you have 0 protection.

I try to avoid Paypal for anything of significance (prefer cash, Zelle, Venmo)

I try to avoid Ebay for anything of significance and go Craigslist, US Audiomart, Facebook (until they mess it up)

Agree with the points on Ebay's new system. I have a hard time figuring out if they have paid me for everything. Sometimes the payment is 1 for 1. Sometimes they are bundled. Confusion may be by design.

Seller beware.





sokogear
1,096 posts
 
I don’t use Facebook at all, but my son has listed a few non-audio related things on Facebook Marketplace for me with excellent results and the buyers were very nice. They were local and picked up the stuff, which I guess is a big help. I guess Facebook is good for something after all.

Anybody  ever use this for audio gear? eBay tried to take the listing without mentioning their exorbitant fees -  they must have some kind of deal with Facebook. eBay is going down the toilet.

I got burned on Craigslist once and will never go back there.
dill
2,530 posts
 
" eBay tried to take the listing without mentioning their exorbitant fees -  they must have some kind of deal with Facebook."

What? This makes no sense at all. eBay & Facebook have nothing to do with each other.
arichison's avatar
arichison
81 posts
 
I do not want to give my personal information like my last four digits of social security or my birthdate or bank draft number to ebay.  I am not sure now about ebay anymore. I will certainly use the managed payments and their shipping label to be safe if I proceed. I have a 100 percent rating but I don't think that history is relevant anymore like it used to be. I do all my selling now on USAudio mart and Audiogon. The latter is still the best but has fees. This forum is amazing. Thanks everyone for this thread. 
dill
2,530 posts
 
If you want to continue to sell on eBay, they will require your complete SS number and your bank account # for non-optional managed payments. It is my understanding, you may opt out of MP, however you will only be able to buy and not sell.
oregonpapa's avatar
oregonpapa
4,867 posts
 
  • "If you want to continue to sell on eBay, they will require your complete SS number and your bank account #"

And your SSN is your "taxpayer I.D. number." The fact is, Orwell was right ... he just had the year wrong.

Frank
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