Downloads Versus Streaming

@lalitk I don't know why you think that, the same level of compression happens on CD's and I'm guessing can occur with downloads, so my comment wouldn't indicate siding with one format or another. Compression is very real and often abused. So I'm just pointing out another possibility as to why one recording may be difficult to listen to and why another sounds great, even if it's from the same tape master.

@goofyfoot

I see, well in that case we make the best out of what’s available and continue the pursuit. It’s probably why I continue to buy downloads, CD’s and Vinyl.

Yeah, problem is that certain information about the remastering / recording process isn't usually available. Labels are not responsible in any way to be forthcoming about taking shortcuts or making compromises, you take your chances. Fortunately, where I live we have brick and mortar record stores where someone will say, 'No don't buy the later Led Zeppelin remasters because they are compressed and the remixes differ wildly from the originals'. I will say that I feel more vulnerable on Qobuz and that's why I trust when people comment about the catalogue being a mixed bag. But there are plenty of options on Qobuz for twelve dollars a month so, 'whatta ya gona do'?

@jbuhl So I take it that you bought a component from Roon or someone else that serves as the Roon Core and sounds better than your experience using a Mac computer? If so, it makes a good deal of sense to me that your experiencing better results with a component dedicated to Roon, given it's filters an other audio design properties. Which makes me wonder if it's worth spending money on a filtering device between the modem and the Pi?

Yeah a Small Green Computer Sonic Transport (SGC ST).  Runs bit calmer, way more stripped down.  Don't have to worry about all the Mac updates and baggage  that platform brings along.   Stability is rock solid as well (so far) and support is good.   Dedicated device only way to run a ROON core IMO.  Sometimes you see them on the used market.  Been really happy with mine.

@jbuhl All-right, not cheap but still within reach. Does it elevate audio quality to where it's equal to MPD? Also, I'm assuming you can now play DSD files via Roon when using the Sonic Transport? To be honest and it's a long way off but I'm rather focused on the NAIM ND5 XS2 just because, I believe I could convince my local dealer to let me take one home for an audition. I'd really like to see how much of an improvement I'd hear when comparing it to the Pi.

As for Small Green Computer, these small boutique type companies just seem to keep sprouting up. It's encouraging.

The SGC/ST like most of this stuff was an incremental bump and got things close enough to MPD that I stayed with Roon.   Roon also opens things up for sprinkling other low cost endpoints around the house like old Sonos zp90s that can be picked up for dirt cheap.   Got those endpoints in the garage and work station.   I do not stream DSD.  I no longer buy downloads due to unpredictable/unknown quality of the source.   I am at a point where I am good with red book,24/96 and  vinyl.

@jbuhl So you've found a way for the Pi to work for you, which was something I was really interested in hearing about, thanks!

@lalitk 

Correct! It is not so much about the resolution but the provenance of that recording's original master. I have heard files in 16bit/44.1lHz that sounds simply amazing. For example, Shirley Horn's "Beautiful Love" or "If You Go" in 16bit/441kHz on Qobuz sounds stunning in my system.

Finally this was mentioned.  Not sure why this doesn't get brought up more in these discussions.  Provenance / mastering is everything, NOT the format or resolution (although there are merits for sure) generally speaking.  Really, its what version is one referencing (the catalog number).

There are 20 versions of say a Beatles, Zep album, whatever.  One, two or three of those versions sound excellent, the rest sound either OK, meh or absolute crap (compressed to hell). 

So when comparing a local file vs. a streamed file, it has to be apples to apples with regard to the version of said song/album.  However this can get tricky, because the streaming services don't usually provide the meta-data.  To make matters even worse, you have no control or are ever aware when the streaming file/album changes e.g. today the album might be "catalog #1 from Capitol" next month they may replace that version with a remaster (different catalog # / label) and could be worse or better.

I have streamed a song/album that sounds better than my local file version and vice versa.

Although I am streaming more (qobuz), my local library is pretty large and that won't be going away anytime soon, if ever.  I still purchase the stuff I like since the artists are getting so royally screwed by the current streaming model.

All that being said, streaming isn't going away and to get the most out of it, requires  planning and good component matching (much of which has been already stated)

You never know what any individual will determine sounds better but the good news is either way should sound very good if done right. 

@lalitk which is the very reason why I look at labels Qobuz and Tidal don’t have the rights to. For example Analogue Productions is releasing their remix/remaster of the Steely Dan catalogue. However, Walter and Donald already did remasters of their releases with David Geffen getting a hand in either their current or future projects and they’re already of the highest quality as you can imagine coming from those two. So the question will come down to which label is preferred. Steely Dan is available via streaming but these Analogue Production remasters will not be. Now should I get caught up in whether the rereleases are 24/96 or if they’re 16/44.1? I’ve been buying PCM and SACD hybrid CD’s for some time and I can say that many of those 16/44.1 have merit based on the quality of the remix alone not to mention the cleaning up process that’s done on them. What I’m suggesting is that younger folks might be inclined to believe that higher bit rate and resolution rules the day and I personally don’t believe that to be the case.

@mapman if done right is a big if but yes, that’s a huge consideration when making a decision to purchase. 

The rest of the good news is it’s neither hard nor costly to do it right these days. 
 

So earlier today, I was listening to a CD of Monster, buy Steppenwolf and was about halfway into it when I decided to se if there was a HR version on Amazon Music. There is and it sounded fantastic, but that is more the exception than the rule. I have found a lot of HR recordings that sound the same as the CD and a few that sound worse.  I plan on switching to Tidal or Qobuz and I’ll see what the buzz is all about, but I suspect there will be both good and bad recordings there as well.

@curiousjim My experience has been that all streaming services are about the same. Please let us know what you find out and feel free to mention certain titles, thanks!