Does JBL get a bad rap?

Good question. I haven't heard both side by side, so I can't give you a definite answer on that one. Just going by memory, however, the Everest is more dynamic, transparent, and more authoritative than the K2s. The K2s are no slouch, but I believe they are a bit overpriced, as are the S4700s that I use. However, it's pretty well known that JBL slashes prices quite a bit, and I was offered to buy a pair of new K2s for half off the retail price. Anyway, I don't think you can go wring with either one, but if you can swing a good deal on a pair of Everests, then by all means go for it!

I believe JBL does not get the recognition they deserve here in the U.S.A., I mean, here on Audiogon, if you say you have JBL speakers, they believe they are junk audio, they blast me for tring to tell them anything about how much better the JBL's are than what they have when they ask what speakers are great because they are in the market to buy new speakers, my question is how much better is the Everest 67000 speakers compaired to the K2 9900's?

I agree. And if I had the money, I would have bought those instead of the S4700s.

also, Dave_72, I did not know that your s4700s has the folded woofers

Yep. Check out the pics out there via google images. Again, the top of the line studio monitor, the M2, uses the same woofer that the S4700 does! The M2 is considered the best sounding JBL product out there regardless of price. Only the Everest competes with it. But it's only available in packages with DSP and ampiflication either from Crown or Levinson. The M2s have no internal crossover.

I recently heard the JBL K2 9900's at the TAVES show and LOVED them. GREAT, big, natural sound.

I don't know if they would sell the woofers. Beyond that, though, the woofers would have to be padded down as the bass is too strong if just a woofer switch is done, there seems to be a difference in efficiency of the new and old woofers. This was easily accommodated in the 67000 as it has all new crossover boards for all of the drivers.

wow!, Thankyou Kiddman, I did not know that the 67000 has folded woofers-pleated, as a matter of fact, I could hear less distortion with deep bass the last time I owned a woofer design such as this, that is why I said that I liked the design better, that is really great news that the pleated woofers are making a comeback, better believe that I am getting the folded-pleated woofers in my next JBL speakers, Kiddman, do you think JBL would sell the pleated woofers to go into the 66000 speakers?, you know, replace the one's that are in the 66000 speakers, would it work kiddman? cheers.

Audiolabyrinth, the 67000 does have a pleated surround! The 66000 did not, but the 67000 does.

Measurements I have seen show lower distortion at low frequencies for the pleated surround version of two identical woofers, one with pleated and one with rolled. It is only at higher frequencies, where folks want to run a woofer way up, that rolled surrounds were better, at a cost of higher distortion in the lows. But then rolled surrounds took over, they seemed to be looked at as the "modern, latest cool thing", even though in some models with low crossovers pleated still should have been used. If you are crossing over at 1khz or below pleated is open to you, assuming a good design. Note that on the Westminster model by Tannoy also went to pleated surrounds years back, after using rolled surrounds on that model.

Thankyou Nonoise for the link, I am shocked to see that JBL is making what all of you call pleated surrounds, in the pro audio world when I was making money as a musician, this is called a folded woofer, I am also supprised to see Kiddman have the same opinion as I do, believing that a folded woofer has the best bass, also, Dave_72, I did not know that your s4700s has the folded woofers, Kiddman, I do not understand why the Everest DD-67000 does not have this folded woofer design, what is your opinion as to why not?, is it something to do with power handling?

It will be here in the US soon...

The S4700s that I use have pleated surrounds on the woofers. Also, on a side note these same woofers are used in the top of the line M2 studio monitors.

Audiolabarynth, here is a link to the 4365, which seems to be the bigger brother to the 4429: http://eu.jbl.com/jbl_product_detail_eu/studio-monitor-4365.html
Again, seemingly available everywhere except here in the U.S.

All the best,
Nonoise

Regarding pleated surrounds, JBL and Tannoy both have at least one model with pleated surrounds. It is interesting to me that the best bass I have heard seems to come from pleated surround speakers, but of course other details have to be in order also to get great bass.

Hi Nonoise, not ever knowing about the JBL 4429 monitors, I thought that they were a blast from the past speaker, My mistake, I am glad you said that the 4429 is a current offering, now Dave_72 says something about the 4365's, man, this is very interesting!, I am learning about some new models here, the both of you got my intrigue going good!, tell me more!, what does the 4365's look like?, post a link?, cheers.

4429 is a great speaker. Word has it, it's coming to the US market. The 4365s look great too. These are more studio monitors, and it would be very interesting putting them up against the Synthesis models.

Hello Audiolabyrinth,
The JBL 4429 is actually one of their current offerings but you can only order them from Japan. As to which came first, the 4429 or the Everest, I can't say.

The speaker and article about the Disney engineer was this one: http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_19_r.pdf
Scroll down to pg (pdf) 24 and the article begins there.

Sorry if it was confusing referring to one article and providing a link to another of a different speaker from the same maker. Either way though, I'd still like to hear that 4429.

All the best,
Nonoise

Hi Nonoise, that was a great!, I enjoyed your link, It appears this speaker might have been the beginning of the JBL synthesis model line of today?, the appearance is strikingly exactly like the cost no object JBL speaker line of today, check out the similiarity's of the JBL-DD Everest 67000 speakers and the JBL 4429 you are speaking of, Happy Listening.

There is a very old Audio Critic issue where a Disney engineer gave advice and schematics for what he felt to be the best speaker you could buy or make. All of the drivers were JBLs. He felt they made the best drivers in the business but (at the time) weren't so good with their crossovers, or something like that.

When I saw this review http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-450&lang=en of the JBL 4429 I lusted for it for the longest time. :-)

All the best,
Nonoise

+1 with what Kiddman has said about horn speakers in general, my most enjoyable listening exsperiences have come from Horn speakers through out the years of past, to this day, I believe the folded surround woofer's has the most taunt accurate bass I ever listened to, even over these over thought out designs of today, even Cerwin Vega got this one right years ago along with JBL, who still makes a folded woofer design for home audio these days?, last time I used one of these, it was PA speakers that was made for the keyboards on stage, best mid range ever, LOL, most of the mid range came out of the 15" woofer along with the bass, vocals were incredible real sounding,mated with world class High end audio componets and cables, spooky!

Boy, you guys are plucking my Low E, on my Ampeg fret less bass guitar with all this JBL talk. Really nice thread.

I think I had Heil as well as my first Ohm back then. My brother had the JBL 100s. We loved them. I remember listening to War's, The World Is A Ghetto, and thinking the proverbial WOW!! Loved the sound. The JBL 4319 looks really interesting at that price point. I guess I need to expand my horizons and go back to where I once was.

Mik, that was before my time. I was in New Brunswick NJ store circa 1978.

Mapman,
I bought a nice system at Tech Hifi back around 1973. Did you work there at that time? I believe John Rutan sold me my system (could be wrong, memory gets foggy with all the rigs either I, or my brother bought). For some reason I really liked that store, fond memories.
Best

"....at the recent San Francisco Audio Show the Pass Labs room was driving a pair of Imperials (with Tannoy drivers) with their 50 watt amp and a Technics SL 10 turntable. IMO that speaker shamed 98% of the speakers at that show."

The supposed great progress in speakers and all the horn bashing that has gone on for 30 years in the USA market: comments like this from above put it in perspective, as do comments by dyed in the wool, audiophile magazine thumping audiophiles who hear one my horn systems and go home raving.

Not only does JBL get a bad rap, all horn speaker makers get a bad rap.

Thanks Audiolabryrinth, and I agree with your statement.

The pre Harman James B, Lansing was very helpful to me and cultivated a sizable DIY segment in our little hobby supplying planes and components back in the day.

You'd find naked plywood on stages and in some well heeled homes in those days. Leo Fenders original gut strung (hand wire wound over the pickup) Precision Bass design included the very small tweed Baseman amplifier to, rather successfully, emulate the tone of an Upright. If you needed a proper, truly low end loud Bass amplifier you were on your own until Ampeg and acoustic marketed their first trunk sized designs. JBL offered a selection of efficient cabinet designs one could build or buy.

Not actually an audiophile yet I was very impressed by the Jensen Imperial with the Tannoy Gold driver witch may have been the second or third Hi-Fi system I'd listened to back then. After a long day at the recent San Francisco Audio Show the Pass Labs room was driving a pair of Imperials with their 50 watt amp and a Technics SL 10 turntable. IMO that speaker shamed 98% of the speakers at that show.

Hi Tonykay, input JBL-Everest DD 67000 speakers on your search, you will enjoy what these new JbL speakers look like, as a matter of fact, the 1400 Array is the only pair of speakers in the model line up that look like that, all the other models have the horns in the cabinet, cheers.

JBL model 4676, two-way based on the 4550 bottom cabinet.

As I said above, I love the early JBL models, and I'll admit I am not really up to date on their more contemporary models. I just took a look at the link from Stereophile, posted above by Kiddman (JBL Synthesis Array 1400 BG). To me, it looks like a horn stuck to a speaker. Everyone will have an opinion, that's mine. Aesthetics should count for something. I'm not trying to be controversial and you don't have to agree with me, but if you like the look of that speaker, we have nothing more to talk about.

Great post Dave_72, However, I believe their is no such thing as the best speakers anyway, personal tast for sound plays part of each audiophiles quest for sound reproduction, what may sound really good to me and you, may be bad to someone wanting cold bright analitical detail that would bring us fatigue!

Hello again Kiddman. Good to hear your 'well trained ear' support these truly great JBL horn speakers. By the way, have you experience with SOUND APPLICATION AC power conditioning products? I've just had a remarkably good experience. (I admit to wanting absolutely clean AC power and total isolation of digital from analogue.)

Well, as far as the horns in the latest models are concerned, the horns use a material call Sonoglass. Which is a very inert compound. This translates to getting the power and realism from the horns and compression drivers without the squawk, blat, buzz, or rattle from lesser designs. And of course you have some of the best woofers in the business. All of the Synthesis models have great bass, to various degrees, but it's still there. You really need to go out and listen to the Synthesis line as I believe it will change one's negative view of JBL. I believe JBL for the most part did their homework on the Synthesis line up. They're not the best, for far from the worst.

To the OP, I did not direct the "do not condemn" statement to you, as you are speaking positively about them. So I am "backing you up"!

Rather, I'm addressing those who would dismiss JBL or any products because they heard something by the company long ago, or because the company has not been anointed repeatedly by the USA press.

Also, a correction, in the second to last paragraph "Quad love" should read "Quad lover".

You bet they get a bad rap, and some of their speakers are truly amongst the best speakers out there, and are extremely refined in sound.

However, in the USA horns became taboo, and JBL makes a lot of horns. Even when they get a great review, folks ignore it. Also, JBL does not play the "I'm a rocket scientist from NASA, Bell Labs researcher, NSA Scientist" and other false claims that so many "high end" companies' founders claim. They don't play the "super exotica" claim.

Read this review: http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/jbl_synthesis_1400_array_bg_loudspeaker/ along with John Atkinson's measurements and consider the magnitude of the accomplishment of the designer of this speaker. How many times does a Quad love say that another speaker equals or beats the Quad at what the Quad does well?

Many will dismiss this post, as they will dismiss the review I cited, and follow the trail of high end audio dogma. So be it. But don't condemn that which you have not heard just because you heard a model of a line 25 years ago and found it not to your taste.

"Most of those systems were not outstanding and the speakers were probably perceived the same way. Maybe this is where the "bad rap" comes from? "

I suspect that in many cases bad results with JBL speakers are not necessarily the speaker's fault, more what was done with them.

I was never a huge JBL fan back in the 70's when we carried them at the Tech Hifi I worked at for a time back in college, but I would like a chance to try them again with what is now available more readily and what I know now that I did not back then.

Sometimes it does. I would not discount the line as a good option for many though.

Hi Rja, The cost no object line as I call it from JBL is at some of the best brick and mortar shops across the country, of course, I rather you go and listen to the top flagship Everest DD-67000 speakers first to get your interest kicking, then work your way down the model line to the more affordable models with in the same model line, as you can read from Dave_72's post above, Dave list the entire line of the speciality JBL speakers, a couple of models are new as of last year, cheers.

About 15 years ago I worked at a national retailer where they had a large JBL equipped "media room" built to view and listen to ads. To me the whole affair was ear bleeding and shrill but I'll admit that the electronics could have been totally or partially to blame.

Some of us, including myself, have somewhat lukewarm perceptions of JBL from times past. Many of my friends and relatives owned JBL's over the years and I never considered them to be outstanding. Most of those systems were not outstanding and the speakers were probably perceived the same way. Maybe this is where the "bad rap" comes from?

I will admit that I have not heard any of their recent offerings. If I did, I just might change my opinion of them.

Changing these attitudes and perceptions may be one of JBL's major marketing challenges.

Yeah, those 4365s sure are killers. I wish they were available here in the US. They're one of the best speakers that JBL makes, imo!

snecma, great post, congrats on your JBL speakers.

Audiolabyrinth
True. On the day when JBL introduces new line of their speakers in the USA other brands can close their business.
I recently purchased 4319 which is moderate to low in new
line hierarchy. By the way, the speakers were tuned by
Keyeso Nigurava, Asymmetrical ports diameter, 27Hz - 40Khz, 92.5db. Internal wiring - Cardas Gold. Listened with the Pathos InPol amplifier and the sound was amazing, from the
jazz to heavy bass dance music. Two days later I sold my
Totem Wind and Focal Aria speakers. I just can imagine how their higher end speakers sounds. The only problem would be the price.
For now they are to expensive if you would import them from
Japan. The good thing is that you can order them with the
three different upgrades (cross over, internal wiring and
custom tuned ports). Standard versions also sounds good but with the less bass since the Japanese prefer more mid/high levels. Soon I will offer them on Audiogon to finance
purchase of 4365 speakers. They are also tuned by Mr.Nigurava. Specs are: 19Hz-43Khz, 93Db. But the price.....

Ptss: Those are the reasons they are considered classics, and rightfully so.

Audiolabyrinth: Exactly right. Imo, the high end JBLs hold their own and often times beat the big favorites in high end audio. For example, B&W 800 series, KEF reference, Harbeth, Avalon, ProAc, Wilson, and more. The only other 2 bands that I'll consider if I ever sell these JBLs are Tannoy Prestige and the bigger ATCs.

Hi mattmiller, believe it or not, there really is not a whole lot of people who know about the current cost no object JBL line of speakers, they are not on the JBL mass produced speakers internet site, this JBL line that Dave_72 speaks of is an entirely different and seperate JBL company that is under the JBL umbrella, I was not tring to offend you, as a matter of fact, I never heard of these top high-end JBL speakers untill 2012 myself,This JBL line of speakers is still not getting the buzz here in the u.s.a. like they do world-wide, the japenesse love this line of JBL speakers, so I do not believe it is uncommon for someone to ask if they have heard of this line of JBL speakers, cheers.

I bought the JBL 250Ti's on 1985 and could have bought anything at that time (and did listen to many). They weren't perfect--but their (relatively) unrestricted dynamics, wide frequency response and excellent(for the time) lively Titanium tweeter made music - as opposed to other speakers whose crossovers ( and inferior drivers) killed natural dynamics in favor of a flatter (or tighter) frequency response.( I sold my Quad electrostatics (excellent) as soon as we heard the 250Ti's). The JBL's were the first speakers I knew of that could really deal with the dynamics of a full orchestra-- while staying very relaxed. I still own them; they still rock.

Hello Audiolabyrinth......WE WERE SPEAKING OF VINTAGE JBL"S FROM 40 YEARS AGO! I am not living under a rock! of course I know all about the new production JBL line.

Their powered studio monitors are wonderful and I have a number of friends in bands who use their professional stuff on stage(although those don't work as well in a home environment, I've tried)

10-21-14: Phasecorrect
Similiar to planar speakers..."they have no bass!"...
Phasecorrect, were you also refering to B&W speakers?
Even huge ones have no bass... True!

Thanks! I try my best...

Great post Dave_72, I got alot out of your post, Awsome!

Yes, it can get a bit complicated regarding JBL, both consumer and high end.

So, for the Hell of it, I'll try and make sense of it for you.

Top of the line: Everest 67000

2nd from top: k29900

Now, here's where it gets tricky...the middle of the line. You have the 1400 Arrays, S3900s, and S4700s all battling for prominence. Each model is comparable to the other, and each model bests the other in certain departments. It just depends on your room, your taste, and what have you. I can say that the 1400 Array and S4700s (which I use) are very close in sound, with the Arrays having a touch better midrange, but the bass in the S4700 is superior. I chose the S4700s over the Arrays because I didn't want to have to assemble anything, and with the arrays, you have to assemble the vertical horn to the bass cabinet. I'm kind of a klutz, so that was a no go. I love the sound of them, but ultimately they are not for me.

bottom of the line: there really isn't any. Unless you want to count the Studio 590s, not really a high end model, but JBL seems to think otherwise. I just heard them last weekend, and they were ok, but the mids and highs are a bit subdued for my tastes. I know other people would love it, citing it as warm and smooth.

Below that you have the Studio L890s, Studio 290s, and so on an so forth. I used to use the Studio L890s, and at the price I paid ($800 USD)they were serious bang for the buck. I still have them and I'm debating whether to sell them or not. We'll see what happens.

Anyway, I hope this helps!

It's probably my age, but I lose interest in companies when I no longer understand their product line. In the 70's, I knew that the JBL L200 was a step up from the L100, and the L300 a step up from the L200. Today, JBL has a "synthesis line...1400 array, s3900," their Everest 6600 (or is it 6700) model and probably many others. I prefer companies that make a limited number of products, like Quad or Magnaplanar, at specific well-defined price points. I do love the vintage JBL models and I'm always tempted when I see an ad here on Audiogon for a pair of S7R, S8R or any of the early models mentioned above.