Do you think audiophiles are the most gullible hobbyists

They seem to fall for anything. I have had other hobbies before and people seem to be more sensible. What is it about Audiophiles that makes them so gullible?

Absolutely not! I see little kids being outfitted with $500 baseball bats. Photography, woodworking, automobiles, home design and decoration, women's shoes and purses, computer gaming, name the hobby, they all have their suckers.

"Give me a little bit a money
And a few fine clothes
A whole lotta lovin'
And let is be yours

That's all I want, baby
That is to be with you
I wanna love you, baby
If it breaks my heart in two"

Quite the opposite. Sure there are those who make buying decisions based upon smoke and mirrors but there are - at least it seems to me - more than the hobby's fair share of skeptics. Most are fair. Some are merciless, others are assassins. From what I read in this and other forums it is one of the best aspects of the hobby. Thank goodness for them. 

OP: With that initial post, looks you are strictly speaking about yourself .
I think there is some truth in that, music is among the most powerful of human triggers.
Nobody ever spent a grand for a new book cover that would make Shakespeare better .
Schubert's comment made me think. 

Maybe not with equipment, but as I consider some of the music purchase choices I've made, I must confess there's some real turds in this music lover's "collection".

Sophmore albums that follow a dynamite premiere and got purchased unheard because I knew (gullible) it would be great.  Albums by aging rockers purchased out of a (gullible) sense of loyalty. Albums purchased based upon a glowing review by a reviewer whose taste I like. (Gullible.) Solo albums by bandmembers that make you wonder how they they were in the band in the first place. Gullible.

Worse, I can't resist rummaging through the bargain CD/LP bins in brick & mortar stores thinking (gullible) I will find a treasure. 


If a person has the time to research, thoroughly, you can avoid much of the snake oil. I haven't been involved in this hobby for too long, but it has been my experience that this seems to be the case. I spent 100's of hours on line, many of them on this site, and I'm quite happy with the sound I'm getting in my starter system. There is always room for improvement, but to me, that's what the hobby is about.
I don't know that audiophiles are any more gullible than fans of jewelry, cars, homes, pets. etc.

In a world where there exists $1.8 diamond studded dog collars, it seems silly to question the cost of $10K cables etc.
I think you can learn how to avoid most of it, especially after you’ve been burned a couple times. But, I don’t think there is any way a legit seller can market, hype, promote or sell a product that a snake oil salesman can’t appear to imitate.
I suppose I just might deserve that...I do get pretty wound up sometimes, I'll say that. Sorry if I come across that way, I’ll try to refrain
Ivan - I thought ebm's remark was directed at the OP.  In any case, nothing to apologize for in your post (speaking for myself).
Oh, I see...appreciated ghosthouse. Maybe I was just being...uh..gullible.......or maybe no. I'll let ebm have his say...
I was at Costco the other day. There was a man's watch in the jewelry section that was $14,999. It wasn't even a particularly good looking watch either.  That would buy you 3 pair of Magneplanar 3.7i's
Wow! I didn't know Costco was so upscale. The one by me is popular for their 5.00 chickens and .35 cent croissants.
If you are thinking about being gullible regarding fuses, cables, cords, etc, no.  I haven't felt as if I have been deceived on any of these items--they have all worked to improve the sound. I am skeptical of the magic dots and stickers, though.  For music purchases, it's not that we're so gullible as it is willing to take chances on a better issue, etc.  Comparing hobbyists to just being consumers, people are much more gullible in buying weight loss products, beauty products for skin, hair growth products, get-rich seminars, healing pendants, televangelists, etc.  Audio gullibility pales next to these attractions.  

I don't know about audiophiles, but car wax enthusiasts are certainly up there.  There are numerous waxes selling for thousands of dollars for one jar and the better "enthusiast" waxes go for a couple hundred for a jar.  I don't want to say these people are gullible, but it may make you feel better about spending a few thousand on a set of ICs, which at least will last for quite a few years. 
Ions ago I had some really professional sales training, where they differentiated "need" from "sense of need".  To highlight the difference they gave an example of one being a salesman selling house painting services, in a neighborhood where one house was very neatly kept, had a paint job that was a few years old, starting to fade and get dirty, while the house next to it had badly peeling paint, noting that the latter had a real "need" for a new paint job, but the former had a much more powerful motivation or "sense of need", and would be the customer you would be best to concentrate your time and effort on closing the sale.

Our hobby is definitely one of those "sense of need" scenarios.

We've all got to admit that it's really a lot of fun to swap out equipment and accessories and see how that changes (hopefully improves) our musical experience.

Hey, if some of the crazy things that audiophile purchase make you happy, that's all that counts!
As to what thing seems preposterous, too preposterous to ever consider, I suspect it all depends on the thing being considered and the person doing the considering. There are a lot of things in audio that were once considered absurd or preposterous that are now commonplace or at least relatively common. Things like vibration isolation, tiny little bowl resonators, hi res downloads, WA Quantum Chips, Schumann frequency generators, CD enhancers, CD demagnetizers, cable elevators, fuses with directional arrows and scattered laser light absorbers. I admit Mpingo discs, Silver Rainbow Foil, Lessloss Blackbody, the Red X Pen and the Teleportation Tweak are probably not going mainstream any time soon.

PT Barnum once opined folks would be much better off generally speaking if they believed in too much rather than too little.
Ejr1953 wrote,

"Ions ago I had some really professional sales training, where they differentiated "need" from "sense of need"."

One assumes those were negative ions ago.
I am thinking of HL Mencken, who said, "Nobody every went broke under-estimating the intelligence of the American public".  Or of WC Fields, who said, "Never give a sucker an even break."

I guess we audiophiles are no worse than any other devout hobbyists, American or not, and no better.  
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There are more suckers in the USA than others places for a simple reason.
 We are so brainwashed from cradle to grave  that reality just does not register with us .
Can you elaborate on this lack of reality, Schubert? If you are referring to our consumerism, yes, we are the world's largest consumer economy.  We are constantly bombarded with ads to buy everything, and we do buy and buy.  We are told we always need new cars, new clothes, new furniture, new boats, new phones, new kitchens--when we could make what we have last longer. I drive a 2000 Saturn--still a good car for the 6K I drive annually, otherwise, would need something newer--not that I don't want a nicer car, though.  

jafreeman, in the most macro terms I can think of offhand, Americans will tolerate massive corruption , poverty conditions not seen in other developed countries , elections stolen for all to see, endless wars and virtually anything else with a shrug of the shoulders as they have internalized this is always the best country in the world no matter what .
This is not reality .
What you describe is the madness coming from the cognitive-dissonance
created from not being happy as you should be in the best of all possible worlds.
Consumerism is a drug for this as the social psychologists working for marketers are well aware . Most of country music is written by them .

Well stated, Shubert.  The greatest country in the world is great only in some regions, and this is often due to massive consumer debt.  Propping up the facade of affluence is a stack of credit cards, loans and cash-out re-fi's on endless mortgages.  This is how the middle class willfully hands over trillions of dollars to the wealthy. We should not speak of such things here, but go ahead. Most of these threads are boring, anyway.   

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I am not a historical scholar. But from what I understand as a layman the policies have not changed since 2008. If that is true the same thing could happen again.

Yes, it's a disgrace that Wall Street has been able to privatize its profits, socialize its debts and rob average Americans for their bailout and then give massive bonuses to themselves.  The wealthy pay so much less in federal taxes than the average wage earner, and they accuse you of class envy. This is why the US Treasury is empty--and a certain ideology wants to end big government entitlements, citing our massive debt that makes SS and Medicare unsustainable, and they blame you and me. We are too expensive, even though We The People fund both programs.  A great country takes care of her elderly, but not for Ryan and his ilk, who admire Ayn Rand's "The Virtue of Selfishness".  But, we must adhere to the forum's bylaws about staying away from some topics, so I will add "Re-fi for Hi-Fi!". 
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Audiophiles aren’t really very gullible. What they actually are:

cannot be fooled

GK, Machina Dynamica

For you as I understand, audiophiles don't make any gullible decisions otherwise they can't purchase your product if contrary :)

In reality, 
not cynical at all and not skeptcial
not doubting, distrusful but actually easily convinsible by foolish arguments... How they can be clever and can't be fooled after all?

Hey Schubert you were right!  Recent Swiss study says Germany is the best country.  US finishes 4th though.   Who paid those guys off?

Here are the rankings:

1. Germany

2. Canada

3. United Kingdom

4. United States

5. Sweden

6. Australia

7. Japan

8. France

9. Netherlands

10. Denmark

Geoffkait discussing gullibility is the ultimate hypocrisy in audiophilia. 
andrew9405, I see you got an A in Logic 101 and 102 !

Map, there are a lot of those studies around , Swiss one  is skewed towards money.
The best ones , the ones that consider EVERY aspect of human life 
 rank the USA somewhere in the mid-20's which strikes me as about right .
Of all developed countries US is best place for the rich and greedy, worse place for the poor and needy .
I'm getting a very bad feeling.  

By the way it should probably be pointed out that the primary things the Swiss have given mankind is the cuckoo clock and a safe place for crooks to hide their money.

Examples of the cuckoo clock, beyond their facade, can be wonderful examples of precision engineering.
Politics of any country are irrelevant to audiophilia gullibility.
Now, that aluminum helmet you wear seems to adversely affect your rational thinking processes.
Well Swiss are worlds oldest democracy and unlike USA  results are honest and strickly one-man , one vote  .
Of course USA is a Republic NOT a democracy and here one vote in a swing state is worth a hundred in a non-swing state .
Swiss sure are backward .


I saw a show recently on T.V. That said the happiest country is Denmark. They gave the reasons as free health care, free education, giving woman paid maturnity leave and not a big disparity in Income levels between different professions. They said the United States ranked in the mid 20's as far as happiness goes.

"Examples of the cuckoo clock, beyond their facade, can be wonderful examples of precision engineering."

Yeah, right.  And Switzerland uses a cuckoo clock for its National Time Standard.

"I saw a show recently on T.V. That said the happiest country is Denmark. They gave the reasons as free health care, free education, giving woman paid maturnity leave and not a big disparity in Income levels between different professions. They said the United States ranked in the mid 20’s as far as happiness goes."

Boy, are you gullible.

One assumes the folks in Denmark are especially happy when the temperature gets above freezing. On the other hand, free sex along with everything else free might explain the very high number of smiles.

A quick search on Google (friend) gives these results for happiest countries.



2014 Thriving in 3+ Elements





Costa Rica



Puerto Rico























I’m not particularly good at making watches or milking cows so I guess as far as becoming a Swiss citizen goes I’m out.