I posted several comments on this thread January last year. Soon after that, I found out that my wife was pregnant, so I had to take of other business that were slightly more important than getting a repair work for my Concerto bookshelf. Fast forward to January 2014, I rewrote to Quadman who had responded to my post on this thread. To make a long story short, I am COMPLETELY satisfied with the repair work he did on my speakers. To repeat his words, he is not in the business of repairing SF speakers. However, any US user frustrated by Sumiko's policy should consider him as a valuable resource. I have a feeling that Franco would have approved of Quadman's service rather than seeing the beautifully crafted equipment unserviced and abandoned.
Do not buy any Sonus Faber used
Sumiko just announced that
"IN ADDITION, SUMIKO WILL NOT SUPPLY PARTS AND/OR SERVICE FOR ANY SONUS FABER PRODUCT WITHOUT PROOF OF PURCHASE FROM A SUMIKO AUTHORIZED DEALER IN NORTH AMERICA ".
What a curious statement . Can you imagine Volkswagen refusing to provide parts for their own cars, no matter where they were bought? I do hope other distributors will follow. It would surely drive the prices down considerably on Audiogon for used gear.
"IN ADDITION, SUMIKO WILL NOT SUPPLY PARTS AND/OR SERVICE FOR ANY SONUS FABER PRODUCT WITHOUT PROOF OF PURCHASE FROM A SUMIKO AUTHORIZED DEALER IN NORTH AMERICA ".
What a curious statement . Can you imagine Volkswagen refusing to provide parts for their own cars, no matter where they were bought? I do hope other distributors will follow. It would surely drive the prices down considerably on Audiogon for used gear.
119 responses Add your response
Harris4crna - included in the price of anything you buy is an amount to cover the warranty. In your case, that money went to a dealer in Italy and on to Sonus Faber in Italy. Sumiko did not see any of that money. For them to do the warranty work for yor speakers they should get paid by Sonus Faber corporate to do it. My guess is they do not and that is why they do do warranty work for speakers purchased outside the US. It is actually a pretty common practice. Try buying a car in Canada and getting warranty work done in the US. Same situation. Also, warranty laws differ country to country, which further complicates matters. I agree it would be nice if all warranties were worldwide and transferable but most companies do not do that. I recently bought an integrated amp for use in Switzerland. I purchased it in Switzerland for this very reason. |
Sumiko SF will not honor warranty. I called the when I bought my Cremona Ms in Italy. Ok, I may be able to see rationale if buying from a non-authorized dealer, but buying from a SF approved authorized dealer overseas should be credit enough to honor warranty. Also, I truly believe all companies should warrant transferable warranties when buy used. Now, if it is a money issue, than allow the buyer of used equipment to purchase warranty at a minimal price. We buy used equipment all the time. That's my two cents. |
Brf - that statement is under the Warranty section of the website. It basically says they will only honor the warranty if you purchase from an authorized dealer. Many companies will not provide warranty services for products not purchased from an authorized dealer. They also notes that the warranty is not transferable. Once again, if in doubt, call them. |
I agree that a company should not honor warranty repairs on grey market product. They should however provide support out of warranty as they produced the product. Many of us afford higher quality audio gear by purchasing used. It only does harm to their reputation to refuse service to any owner of their product. I purchased some B&W's last year from this site which arrived badly damaged. The people at B&W North America helped me determine what parts were needed and I installed them myself without shipping them across country again. Thankfully they were willing to deal with me. Still fighting with UPS. They claim the original boxes and packing were insufficient. Actually in their hands that turned out to be true. |
Distributors can refuse a full paid repair job if they wish. Sumiko used this tactic to try to cut down on gray market product sales back when Tweeter was selling SF. There was one "dealer" in particular who was selling gray market speakers very openly on this site. There was other gray market product being sold from Europe. From what I can tell, the gray market for SF in the US has disappeared or been greatly reduced. People may not agree with the practice, but there is no requirement for a distributor to sell parts or do repairs on gray market product. |
Harris4crna - That is good news. My understanding is Sumiko started their stated repair policy when a large number of black market speakers were coming into the US. They just wanted to warn people that they would not support black market speakers. But they are willing to service used equipment purchased through authorized dealers. The policy they stated to you is consistent with my discussions with Sumiko, although I have never had to have anything repaired. Warranties are quite commonly country specific. Warranty costs are included in the purchase price. Since Sumiko earned nothing for the sale, it is not surprising they will not honor a warranty. SF could try to intervene, but Sumiko's policy is following pretty standard warranty processes. The warranty situation is similar to Canadian cars brought into the US. They are often not covered by warranty in the US. Thanks for the update. |
UPDATE: We can provide service, parts and repair if anything should go wrong with your Stradivari speakers, but it would not be covered under warranty. The Sonus Faber warranty is non-transferable, so used items are not covered, and Sumiko is not responsible for warranties on products that we did not import. But yes, if at any time you need something like replacement parts, we will be able to help you, but there would be a charge. I received this email yesterday from Sumiko. This is following me contacting them, giving them the situation, the name of the company and the serial number of the Stradivaris. The seller stated he will give me $5000 for the Cremonas (paid 9500 less than a year ago), so will need to decide. May bring my amp (Simaudio 600I) to the shop and listen to them and decide. Hmmmm, we will see. Just thought I would let you all know. |
Yes, here i sit in a quad rum because i live here in Italy, but soon to return to the states. I purchased a pair of Cremona M from a local dealer here, but later to find out Sumiko will not honor the warranty even though they are legit with serial number. Ok, fine, i suck it up and hope nothing goes wrong with them. Local dealer here will honor warranty, but i would need to return them here for repair. Now, i see a pair of Stradivari selling for a ridiculous price of $19,000 used on audiogon. Seems legit, good seller reviews and seems honorable when i speak to him. He states he will allow a trade in of my Cremonas for the Stradivari, great. Now i return to the original problem, what happens if something goes wrong. These are 3-4 year old speakers, one owner, but still. I am still paying a substantial amount of money for these. What to do??? |
Wow,,, I revived this tread. Jallen I contacted Orange County Speaker after Sumiko refused the service. They said no. In fact, as I recall, the person who replied my inquiry basically wrote to me "Sonus Faber, what's that?". Quadman Should I contact you at dc10audio? I saw your website. Looks great. Smit I appreciate your advice. I think I will try dc10audio first, meanwhile, I will learn how to say "I can't speak your language, but please help me" in Italian. :) Newbee Your argument may fly, if SF is exclusively into expensive stuffs. The fact is, their speakers were being sold at Tweeters!!! |
We can service them although we are not authorized to do so and we are not in business to service other brands it is however fairly easy to service replace parts on SF! We've used similar drivers in dc10audio for several years and even have some old stock in like drivers we have also repaired damaged SF cabinets as we have a similar cabinet construction method. Please be advised that service/repairs and shipping is expensive. SF still remains one of the most exciting loudspeakers made even if they have a problem with the distributor. :)) |
Im surprised that some speaker savante hasnt made a good business for himself specializing in the repair of Sonus Fabers bastards. Im sorry if this is insensitive - I really do feel for you Naxos41 - but I have to ask. Just on principal, why would any member of this community purchase any Sumiko product? |
Naxos41, pick up the phone and call Sonus faber directly in Italy and explain your situation.I have done so on three different occasions and each time Sf fixed the problem - no questions asked.I don't live in the US and had purchased from an authorised dealer in my country, but he and the distributor were so slow in making an effort to sort out my problem(s) I got frustrated and made the calls.It was a while ago when Franko Serblin was still there.In one of the instances the CEO at the time, Cesare Bevalaqua attended to the problem himself as he was the one who picked up the phone.Once we got past the language barrier they couldn't have been more helpful. Good luck. |
I bought a pair of new Electa Amator II speakers about 7 years ago, and still love them. I purchased them directly over the internet from a high-end audio shop in Milan, which was happy to ship them to me in the states. They arrived in pristine, unopened condition. But now this attitude of Sumiko's is outrageous, arrogant, and unacceptable. Sonus Faber should be happy customers for their products are excited, dedicated, and exist in any and all ways. I see these threatening Sumiko ads, and they disgust me. I have another system with Epos speakers that pleases me just as much, and this company is now my future. Goodbye Sonus Faber and your U.S. distributor with a serious attitude problem. |
Does anybody know if Sumiko has changed this policy? I bought a pair of used SF Concertos at Audiogon around 2001. About 4 years later, one tweeter started to produce noise. Through my local dealer, I contacted Sumiko and they were nice to repair it (with my paying the cost, of course). I can't explain exactly what the problem was, but they replaced the crossover. About 4 years after the initial repair, the same problem occured again. This time, Sumiko wouldn't repair it because they couldn't find the record of the original sale. I tried to contact the seller from 8 years earlier, but couldn't reach her. I can't play or sell them, so I am forced to permanently retire them in the closet. The argument like "Sumiko told us the policy" or "Speakers don't break" apply to my case (they once serviced it!!!). In addition to my ~1K expense, the original labor and materials for crafting these gorgeous speakers have been wasted. It is a shame. Alternatively, if there is any third-party service that could repair these speakers, please let me know. Thank you. |
Hifihv, I said 'he, who lives in glass houses" referring to you, my friend. You wish for 'privacy' which is why you don't post a system.....Sure. The Pioneer in that thread belonged to a friend, which IF you bothered to read the thread is exactly what it said. I'm done responding to you...you have a nice day. |
Lets see, a lot of big skylights, you throwing rocks....Hmmm. That's illegal! Enjoy that state of the art Pioneer DV 414 player. After all, it is almost as good as your close to $700,000 system. |
It's nice of you to loan your speakers out for pictures too. Have a nice day. |
Janeb, just curious why you have this picture in your system link? |
Musicpod and Hifhvn, it is NOT that I believe that speaker driver's have a ZERO failure potential. Instead, I am saying that of all components that are delivered new to a consumer in our hobby; I would say that speaker drivers are on the VERY low side of the infant mortality curve. Certainly very low compared to tube components as an example. Therefore, the risk to a consumer of warranty issues is IMO far, far less with this type of component. I guess YMMV. |
Janeb: I couldn't tell you why the driver failed. My knowledge base is not at that level. But I can say that that I run the speakers at what could be considered, at minimum, normal use -- -20db to -30db -- on a Denon AVR 3808CI, based upon the Denon display information. (I know folks with similar setups -- Vienna Acoustics/Denon -- who say that they run their Denons toward the 0db or -10db levels). Right now I'm listening to Miles Davis' "Nefertiti" at -30db. I can also say that when I called the dealer to report the issue he was not as confounded. He just apologized and said that it happens and ordered the new driver. However, I did think of something that might give you perspective. Sometimes when I hear something in a different context, it helps me get perspective. The following may provide you additional perspective. Based upon your comments, it appears that you believe speaker drivers should have a 0% failure rate. As good as you seem to think drivers are, do you believe a 0% failure rate can be expected? Additionally, I would also wonder why Sumiko would have replacement drivers in inventory if they are never expected to fail. Hope this helps. Thanks for your comments. |
"The notice is hard to miss. Yet so many people have. And what about craigslist? Before an authorized purchase takes place, is the prospective buyer asked to sign off on this policy? When this policy was enacted, were the authorized owners of every Sonus Faber speaker warned not to lose his receipts, and that the resaleability of their speakers was being diminished. Were these owners compensated. When I buy a new car, the potential resale price of a model is always part of the negotiation. In fact, I consider that one of the most important factors in my decision. If the resale value of my car hits the skids due to a new policy, I want to be compensated. |
What reason was there for your Vienna drivers failing in such a short period of time?? My point is that I can see a tube amp manufacturer or a digital device manufacturer be concerned about infant mortality in their product, but a speaker manufacturer...............? They're made by human beings. Even if they were made by robots, they too are made by humans. A poorly glued voice coil can come loose. A person or a robot can't see what is going on in between the parts being made. The same for a poor solder joint that may look perfect. Years back, I beleive the Space Shuttle lost its main computer system. It had NASA on edge for a short time, but a backup system worked. I think they traced it to a microscopic stray piece of solder in a component. They had no idea it was there during testing, and figured it broke free and shorted the system from the vibration (during takeoff), going by memory. Speakers vibrate a lot too. That's what a warranty is good for. Over driving them could cause a failure too. But, I think the manufacturer could see this, if they disassembled the parts. |
Jeffkad - just to be clear, this policy has been in place for many years and that notice has been posted on Audiogon for many years. This is not a new policy. This policy came into place because of unethical and what is probably even illegal activity by sellers on this website. Anyone who has done a search on Sonus Faber speakers over the last several years should have seen the notice. It is pretty obvious. The notice is hard to miss. Sonus Faber Search There is a healthy used market for SF here on Audigon, even with this policy in place. Again, if you want to purchase a used SF speaker, get the serial number and confirm with Sumiko if they will sell replacement parts. If you are buying new, keep the receipt (which you should do anyway), and, if you sell it, provide a copy to the new owner and explain the situation. If you really object to this policy just buy another brand. If you want to buy SF, then just follow the procedure. It is not that hard. |
Phaelon's point cannot be dismissed, and is THE issue at hand, especially for THIS website, a facilitator of USED equipment. Sumiko's policy is clear and broad: there will be NO service/parts for used speakers that cannot be verified as originally sold through a dealer. I understand this for a new speaker needing warranty repair, however, this policy clearly impacts the used community in a BIG way, as I'm sure that many if not most transactions here do not include an original invoice. I'm sure many don't have it to begin with, especially if the equipment has been sold several times, a not atypical scenario here at agon. The OP has it right. Under these circumstances, the used market for SF might be tenuous at best. It should actually collapse price-wise, except for the fact that most used buyers will not be aware of Sumiko's new policy, and even future agon buyers will likely not know as this thread slowly fades away. One thing Sumiko must understand, however, is that a robust used market facilitates new product sales as those wishing to upgrade or change have an outlet to unload equipment for a fair price and use the proceeds to buy new. IMHO, an unnecessary and potentially damaging business decision by Sumiko. |
Musicpod why would a driver fail? I can understand it if you over drive the speaker, which would be your fault, but under normal use....I don't get it. What reason was there for your Vienna drivers failing in such a short period of time?? My point is that I can see a tube amp manufacturer or a digital device manufacturer be concerned about infant mortality in their product, but a speaker manufacturer...............? |
Janeb Your post: I have had very good service whenever I have talked to Sumiko. However, I have to wonder how often a speaker will need warranty repair anyway? After all, what's to really fail....the driver, the x-over the connectors...???? I could see that an amp manufacturer or other electronic manufacturer would have concerns, BUT a speaker manufacturer? Don't quite get it! How many times have you bought a speaker and it has had a problem during its limited warranty period...I never have. My post: FWIW. I have 5 Vienna Acoustics speakers in my system, which are distributed by Sumiko. All speakers were purchased through authorized dealers. I had one of the drivers go out on one of the speakers in less than two years. However, the dealer handled the replacement driver in an acceptable manner. |
That comments from Elizabeth re Parasound are nonsense. I have spoken with Tony at Parasound tech support on numerous ocasions and have gotten any part I needed. I buy most if not all my Parasound stuff (inc JC-1s and JC-2s) used and have never been asked to provide proof of auth dealer purchase to get parts. Tony has even helped me with mods to Parasound's design flaws in getting alternative parts (like the JC-1 current surge protectors that can burn up; a design that was changed in later units. Parasound will replace the originals for free). I buy Parasound equipment because they are one of the very few companies that will give you schematics of any product they produce. Try getting those from Cambridge Audio or many other brands. Bryston is pretty good as well, but only a few schematics are supplied by Bryston. So what is sometimes published policy is rarely enforced, but is there just in case they run across a case of abuse. |