Do equipment stands have an impact on electronics?
Mechanical grounding or isolation from vibration has been a hot topic as of late. Many know from experience that footers, stands and other vibration technologies impact things that vibrate a lot like speakers, subs or even listening rooms (my recent experience with an "Energy room"). The question is does it have merit when it comes to electronics and if so why? Are there plausible explanations for their effect on electronics or suggested measurement paradigms to document such an effect?
Mpingo discs of course shouldn’t really be included in your list of vibration isolation products since they are best placed in the category of vibration control. Which leads me to make the following observation. The reason you had such good results with the Mpingo discs is that you already had implemented vibration control protocols. So it’s easier to hear changes to the system. The system is more revealing of tweaks in general. The Mpingo discs can lead to harder things like Shun Mook Spatial Kits that comprise 3 Mpingo discs per bracket and are super powerful, as well as other vibration control devices such as Marigo VTS dots for Windows, walls, speaker diaphragms, speaker cabinets, electronics chassis, capacitors, CD tray, electron tubes, among other things. I have constrained layer dampers for transformers, CD transports and shelving for electronics, and natural cork (Quark!) solutions for capacitors, transformers and capacitors. The pebbles addresses vibration issues for room boundaries, transformers, speaker cabinets, Windows, walls, standing waves, reflected acoustic waves and other comb filter effects, etc. Herbies tube dampers (but not other types of tube dampers) should also be included in any list of vibration control devices. And let us not forget all those tiny little bowl acoustic resonators, including my own ceramic ones and my ceramic wall outlets which are also vibration control devices.
The Law of System Maximization: No matter how much you have in the end you would have had even more if you had started off with more.
you really need to try them, i have a room full of goodies from the stillpoints older volcano version, stillpoints componant stands 3 legs, clearlight audio RDC cones with multi base various sizes, exstasy props from china , final durama bearings, club wood disc from korea, 4 mpingo disc on your recommendation, finite elemente universal ceraball , seismic platforms, pods, symposium bearings in the cup with the + ball,
i have been trying various isolation products for years, the best improvements i got by miles was the podiums under my speakers Sound lab dynastats, then the seismic corner bars type S under my 3 legs of my copulare, i have now put my cd player on top of the stillpoint componant stand with 6 dampers and the sound has taken another big step up in performance not as big as the podiums but not far off,
not one size fits all i am merely passing on my findings and i hope other audiophiles try what i have done and got the same results,
i would personally isolate your loudspeakers first ie try the podiums they are sold discounted in the UK, then i recommend a solid rack with wooden shelves, then try the older stillpoints i find they are very detailed and musical when used with a stillpoint component stand,
yes geoff i have spent a lot on isolation, so to help save other audiophiles of doing the same thing i have merely pointed out my journey and what really stood out for me that worked, and yes the podiums are that good i recommend everyone should try them and the first generation stillpoints with componant stands for the money are great to regards john
hi, its good to see some familiar friends involved in discussion, i have found threw trial and error that there are some great isolation products out there that will enhance the performance of ones electronics, i believe there are so many choices that it is confusing which product to use. There is also budget so obviously we have not all got stacks of doe to spend.
when i started out many found solid products gave the best results, evolution of isolation has brought many new ideas, i have recently found using Seismic Podiums under my speakers gave the biggest upgrade in sound quality i have experienced,
I then decided this product could benefit my electronics as well by acoustically isolating my speakers ie no more floor vibrations, my rack is a very heavy Copulare with the heavier shelves with the 3 legs filled with sand, i have placed seismic bars type S under the 3 legs of the rack, so now my rack is acoustically isolated like my speakers,
I am now experimenting with second hand Finite elemente cerapucs and the older volcano stillpoints, i have not had time to evaluate but with just the Seismic Isolation Products my system sounds incredible, i am always looking to further the performance of my system but budget is my limiting factor,
i believe everything everywhere all the time should be isolated and yes using the right products you will hear sound improvements, i believe i am on the right track now but there is just so many ways to skin the cat its taking a lot of audiophiles time and money to find the right ones that work for you, after all its all about the music,
it would be so easy if there was one simple product that done it all, i am finding combinations work ie springs , solid objects and bearings, next up will be different materials used regarding solid and bearings the seismic isolation products are great on there own but all audiophiles are looking for the next level that Is what keeps and makes our hobby so magical, there is just to many products and different ideas, if i had to pick one i would go Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Podiums they are a ground breaking product which will benefit your hole system and listening environment.
Agear To be more specific, schizoid mentation/depression/OCD tendencies superimposed on a predisposition towards addiction: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/music-sex-stimulate-same-part-brain-opioid-drugs-rock-n-roll-mcgill-university-scientific-reports-a7568606.html
Her name was McGill and she called herself Lil but everyone knew her as Nancy.
The burning question is what role isolation plays. It is my understand that the LIGO team experiences uninterrupted bliss while on the job. I presume Sheldrake has entered a similar dimension although through a different pathway.....
Definition of schizophrenia 1 : a mental disorder that is characterized by disturbances in thought (such as delusions), perception (such as hallucinations), and behavior (such as disorganized speech or catatonic behavior), by a loss of emotional responsiveness and extreme apathy, and by noticeable deterioration in the level of functioning in everyday life —called also dementia praecox ◆Schizophrenia often involves an inability to orient oneself with reality, a withdrawal from social interactions, and a failure to integrate thoughts with emotions so that emotional expression is inappropriate. There are several subtypes of schizophrenia, including paranoid schizophrenia and those types marked by catatonia or hebephrenia.
that sounds about right. I've often thought the pseudo skeptics and naysayers to be at sea as it were and filled to the brim with angst.
Yeah, I don't think it's quite that bad. Perhaps a mild disorder like obsessive compulsive disorder or mild depression. Perhaps mild case of bipolar. In some cases even a full blown case of the you know what.
😄
OCD tendencies and/of depression do feed into it, but at its core, it has that element of internal division due to obvious reasons. That's all.
Please speak for yourself. Schizophrenia is a dreadful disease. It is not "intrinsic" to our hobby.
Okay kids. I was using definition #2 to describe the innate tension in our hobby.
Definition of schizophrenia 1 : a mental disorder that is characterized by disturbances in thought (such as delusions), perception (such as hallucinations), and behavior (such as disorganized speech or catatonic behavior), by a loss of emotional responsiveness and extreme apathy, and by noticeable deterioration in the level of functioning in everyday life —called also dementia praecox ◆Schizophrenia often involves an inability to orient oneself with reality, a withdrawal from social interactions, and a failure to integrate thoughts with emotions so that emotional expression is inappropriate. There are several subtypes of schizophrenia, including paranoid schizophrenia and those types marked by catatonia or hebephrenia . 2 : contradictory or antagonistic qualities or attitudes <both parties … have exhibited schizophrenia over the desired outcome — Elizabeth Drew> schizophrenicplay \-ˈfre-nik\ adjective or noun schizophrenicallyplay \-ni-k(ə-)lē\ adverb
Agear: "Stove piping" is something we all do, but its partly the byproduct of our intrinsically schizophrenic hobby ...
"Please speak for yourself. Schizophrenia is a dreadful disease. It is not "intrinsic" to our hobby."
Yeah, I don't think it's quite that bad. Perhaps a mild disorder like obsessive compulsive disorder or mild depression. Perhaps mild case of bipolar. In some cases even a full blown case of the you know what.
I guess it was inevitable that a topic such as this, do equipment stands have any influence on electronics would bring out the self-styled skeptics and stand up comedians. But what is both ironic and surprising is the cold hard realization (by your humble scribe, at least) that vibration control and vibration isolation are still perceived by many audiophiles as controversial, or completely unnecessary, or even unwanted and deleterious to the sound, or even a well-orchestrated scam. It appears that this whole vibration isolation subject in particular demonstrates what I like to call "Stove Piping" by audiophiles - working in isolation (no pun intended) and developing their own "interpretation" of what a high end audio system should be. This results in everyone comes out with his own "interpretation" of what’s involved.
That’s what Stove Piping does: without sharing of ideas and due diligence and research, systems out there will incorporate their owners’ ideas of what constitutes high end audio. Obviously we all have different ideas what that is. It’s no wonder there is so much disagreement in audio about ALMOST EVERYTHING. And I think it’s true audiophiles cling to their beliefs and cannot be shaken in them, for better or worse. Obviously some beliefs SHOULD be clung to. But many beliefs are worthy of rejection. The problem is, and this is demonstrated on many audio forum threads, the more an audiophile’s beliefs are confronted or contradicted the stronger he embraces them - the Backfire Effect in action. To summarize, Stove Piping and the Backfire Effect prevent many audiophiles from progressing and getting stuck. That’s why some people can be perceived as being stuck in the 80s or 90s.
I agree. "Stove piping" is something we all do, but its partly the byproduct of our intrinsically schizophrenic hobby where the observer is intimately involved in and colors the observation.
That’s not at all what has happened here. You might want to read Agon’s terms of service.
This thread is: " Do equipment stands have an impact on electronics?"
It is not: "The risks, benefits, joys and science of marijuana and LSD use."
I don’t agree at all. The censors have always had problems with contextualizing humor and/or information within a thread. I have seen it happen many times. Again, Twitter and Facebook would be proud.
ptss Only on the electronics that are placed directly on them.
Stove Piping and the Backfire Effect
I guess it was inevitable that a topic such as this, do equipment stands have any influence on electronics would bring out the self-styled skeptics and stand up comedians. But what is both ironic and surprising is the cold hard realization (by your humble scribe, at least) that vibration control and vibration isolation are still perceived by many audiophiles as controversial, or completely unnecessary, or even unwanted and deleterious to the sound, or even a well-orchestrated scam. It appears that this whole vibration isolation subject in particular demonstrates what I like to call "Stove Piping" by audiophiles - working in isolation (no pun intended) and developing their own "interpretation" of what a high end audio system should be. This results in everyone comes out with his own "interpretation" of what’s involved.
That’s what Stove Piping does: without sharing of ideas and due diligence and research, systems out there will incorporate their owners’ ideas of what constitutes high end audio. Obviously we all have different ideas what that is. It’s no wonder there is so much disagreement in audio about ALMOST EVERYTHING. And I think it’s true audiophiles cling to their beliefs and cannot be shaken in them, for better or worse. Obviously some beliefs SHOULD be clung to. But many beliefs are worthy of rejection. The problem is, and this is demonstrated on many audio forum threads, the more an audiophile’s beliefs are confronted or contradicted the stronger he embraces them - the Backfire Effect in action. To summarize, Stove Piping and the Backfire Effect prevent many audiophiles from progressing and getting stuck. That’s why some people can be perceived as being stuck in the 80s or 90s.
No matter how much you have in the end you would have had even more if you had started out with more. - audiophile law of maximization
a brief history of Stove Piping
The most common types of intelligence collection, and to some extent processing, which are commonly found in "stovepipes", include signal intelligence (SIGINT), imagery intelligence (IMINT), and human intelligence (HUMINT). While there are other forms of sensitive intelligence collection, these "big three", in a proper use, complement one another. A SIGINT communications intercept, for example, may suggest the presence of a particular military unit in a given location. For example, as part of the Operation Quicksilver deception plan during World War II, dummy communications were generated for the fictitious First United States Army Group (FUSAG), ostensibly commanded by George Patton, in order to convince the Germans that the main attack would come at the Pas-de-Calais, rather than the real target of Normandy. Dummy equipment was positioned in the places consistent with the communications, and a very few German high-altitude photographic aircraft brought back evidence apparently confirming IMINT. The British, however, had jailed or turned all German HUMINT spies, through the Double Cross System. Had a real spy been able to get to a FUSAG location, he would have seen the tanks were inflatable rubber decoys. The British, however, allowed only false confirmations of real tanks to be sent.
Inexplicable censorship. I had a post about NIH-level research involving CBD and Alzheimers pulled. I find it very disconcerting and lessens my desire to be a patron of this site ...
That’s not at all what has happened here. You might want to read Agon’s terms of service.
This thread is: " Do equipment stands have an impact on electronics?"
It is not: "The risks, benefits, joys and science of marijuana and LSD use."
Inexplicable censorship. I had a post about NIH-level research involving CBD and Alzheimers pulled. I find it very disconcerting and lessens my desire to be a patron of this site. Sadly, you see the same pattern with Twitter, Facebook, etc. I find it reprehensible especially when such "technologies" are used to suppress public discourse and whitewash evil.
I again attempted to point out the fact that there are a number of cases of acid casualty musicians, this time not naming names but only providing hints that would allow the reader to determine the identities of those musicians, thereby removing any concern on the part of AudiogoN about libel. That post was also deleted.
One assumes the scientists conducted the marijuana experiments on rats because they found out that rat’s brains are very close to those of humans. 😄
Were the scientists involved paranoid that marijuana would be harmful if humans subjects were used? Were the human subjects paranoid? Did the rats get paranoid? Hmmmm, one wonders.....
I’m pretty sure there are plenty of folks out there with Alzheimer’s who’d be more than happy to volunteer for that little experiment.
Interesting. CBDs have some overlap in advertised health benefits with other herbal medicines.
I suspect many conditions are interrelated. For example whenever physical ailments are alleviated stress levels go down and that generally has a positive effect on general mental health.
Gosh, I don’t think I’ve seen that before - someone trying to win an argument by appealing to big words. I thought I’d seen them all. That’s a new logical fallacy on me. Must be related to the Snow Job fallacy.
😁
No, just logic grasshopper. Not something covered in remedial E-school humanities classes. ;)
mapman Its your choice not mine. Pot is legal in some states. If that's what floats your boat then have at it. Why must everything with you be contentious?
contentious? You're the one that's being contentious as well as avoiding the question. Unless you think pot causes mental illness and suicide. You're just stalking as usual, that's all, from what I can tell. Which is fine with me if you want to do it. Doesn't hurt me any.
Its your choice not mine. Pot is legal in some states. If that’s what floats your boat then have at it. Why must everything with you be contentious?
Myself I am not a fan of smoking and inhaling the toxins that result. You even warned about those (toxins associated with the thing you are taking) earlier. But if the benefits outweigh the disadvantages in any particular case, and it s legal, then good.
mapman Ginseng and ginger for example are reknowned for their medicinal value. You can look up the commonly found benefits and decide whether or not they might be of value for whatever ails you. Many others as well.
Ginseng and ginger? For depression and psychosis? Renowned by whom, Dr. Oz? You’re serious, aren’t you? We’re not talking about the mange or dandruff here.
Ginseng and ginger for example are reknowned for their medicinal value. You can look up the commonly found benefits and decide whether or not they might be of value for whatever ails you. Many others as well.
mapman Putting any unnatural chemicals and/or toxins into your body is something to always avoid unless needed. Stick with mainstream herbal supplements if a safer boost of some kind is needed.
Mainstream herbal supplements? For depression and psychosis? You mean like, uh, marijuana?
Putting any unnatural chemicals and/or toxins into your body is something to always avoid unless needed. Stick with mainstream herbal supplements if a safer boost of some kind is needed if at all possible. Try exercise (get those endorphins flowing) yoga and/or meditation perhaps. There is little or no downside there.
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