Do equipment stands have an impact on electronics?

dlcockrum
452 posts
11-05-2016 7:23pm
Hi Tom and Geoff,

If you would be so kind, could you comment on measurements pdf within the link I posted above:

http://www.solid-tech.net/products/discs-of-silence-4537455

That appears to be what I would expect from a low pass filter. Effectiveness of isolation rises as frequency rises, e.g., 88% at 20 Hz, 97% at 150 Hz. No surprises there. Also, good performance in z direction and x-y plane. Nice!

Randy, 

I agree. And to answer Dave as well..  Are we listening to a piece of music or the before and after affects of a pogo stick?  Plus it will work as a really good plug and not as a drain. Some energy has to be moved out from the source with speed and in an orderly fashion. If the internal interference lingers to long it will become a part of the original signal. Reminds me of so many others, one in particular...same concept slightly different materials. Tom

theaudiotweak
1,401 posts
11-06-2016 1:36pm
"Geoff,

Like a displaced spring on a '58 Edsel your storyboard has sagged with age."

Good one, Tom. You're on a roll.

"Furthermore let go your LIGO as it has nothing to do with anything you make."

Have to disagree there, Zippy. LIGO uses springs. 

"As you almost stated above..take a few days to think about it and get back to us."

Give me a few days and  I'll get back to you. I promise.

Geoff,

Like a displaced spring on a '58 Edsel your storyboard has sagged with age. 

Furthermore let go your LIGO as it has nothing to do with anything you make.

As you almost stated above..take a few days to think about it  and get back to us.


Tom

dl - I have a couple of comments on that measurements pdf:

1. The methodology is incompletely described, and there is no assessment of the accuracy, repeatability etc. of the Geophone sensor among other things.

2. Worst is likely the complete absence of sample sizes and any statistical analysis

There are several other problems with it, but there is no point in going on.

It could not be published in an engineering or scientific journal.

Audiopoint wrote,

"We never considered Earth’s crust motion or seismic forces to be part of our technology, research or approach to product development as we are focused on improving the ’audible’ musical instrument and recording/playback sciences."


That’s not my fault. You should consider everything. I considered everything. I think everybody should.

audiopoint also wrote,

"It would appear in order to provide you any concept of understanding related to our technical approach or why our products perform direct coupled to Earth without the negative effects from inaudible seismic interference would have to result in a product audition."

Im not criticizing your product or your approach. Other than to say that as far as vibration is concerned your approach is not complete.

then Audiopoint wrote,

"Keep to your seismic storyboarding as it delivers a simplistic concept, provides a level of believability and will attract an audience so you can retail your lengthy list of all the different little things you sell."

OK, snarky comments aside, getting back to reality for just a moment, I have also addressed the induced vibration and the acoustic produced vibration just as you claim to have. In fact, my techniques, just judging from your own word, are probably superior in that regard.

Then an audiopoint wrote,

" I have no doubt you will continue to stay on the seismic issues telling companies like ours that we are missing the boat and should go back to school only because Ligo and Kait says so."

Hey, I’m game if you are. I like this little game. I don’t tell anyone what to do. Now that you mention it school is a terrible idea. Remember, education is what’s left after you subtract out what you forgot from school.

Finally Audiopoint wrote,

"We do not listen to Ligo. We do not hear electron microscopes. We do not listen in anechoic environments and we certainly do not hear our houses shaking from seismic whatevers, so what exactly are we missing?

I never said we did. We don’t listen to Audio Points either. Follow? What are you missing? Give me a few days to think about it and I’ll get back to you.

have a nice day

Audiopoint wrote,

"When a speaker is placed on springs, everything moves about and in situations depending on volume and room pressure level, speakers can also move counter to Earth’s rotation. Everything moves - the chassis, drivers, diaphragms and voice coils move freely - left to right and front to back.

Since everything is moving around how does one relate to or measure for driver time alignment?

If a speaker fires from different angles and/or locations while moving, does that affect driver dispersion patterns?

How do the internal moving parts of a loudspeaker function when subjected to constant flexing?

Speaker testing is usually done from a fixed foundation and position - not a moving plane, so how would spring movement affect the testing in anechoic or other studio environments?

if the iso system is properly designed any potential drawback will be outweighed by it’s advantages. Springs under (heavy) speakers - very stiff springs - would be extremely resistant to all motion except vertical motion due to their stiffness and that vertical motion would be very small in practice, again due to their stiffness. So you can ignore the motion using springs with speakers.

Audiopoint wrote,

"Analogy: Speakers fire frequencies through air much the same as weapons fire projectiles through air. I would rather fire a weapon from a solid fixed foundation compared to firing it from a moving spring foundation - greater accuracy - the same with speakers (IMO)."

Actually, most heavy artillery employs "recoil," which is essentially a spring. Otherwise the force of the initial blast would rip the artillery weapon from it’s base or in the case of small arms without recoil it would break a man’s arm. Nor is the path of acoustic waves ballistic. So, a weapon is not like speakers. They're not similar at all, actually.

More from Audiopoint:

Kait asks - “I realize I’ve probably asked you this question before but now that you’ve taken case of the vibrations produced by motors, transformers, etc. In the component and vibrations that might wind up there due to acoustic forces how did you address the seismic vibrations? It appears you’re ignoring them. Am I missing something?”

To which Audiopoint replied,

"We have always ignored them."

That’s the answer I expected. Do you also ignore RFI/EMI? Just curious.

The Great Kait cannot come up with any evidence whatsoever that inaudible seismic activity affects sound reproduction “in real time”. It takes equipment costing millions of dollars to “SHOW” seismic frequencies that are well below that of human hearing.

Huh? I have demonstrated how isolation improves the sound in real time as you say many times including with Mapleshade Recording Studios, Rockport/Tenor and John Curl at CES. It’s actually not that difficult to demonstrate the efficacy of vibration isolation. There are many examples of inexpensive isolation solutions for audio applications. You just have to understand the concept. The REQUIREMENTS for LIGO, as I’ve stated many times before, are far beyond high end audio requirements. I use LIGO as an example of me why Isolation is important, not as an example of what audiophiles need. Hel-loo! Audiophiles do not require MIL SPEC electronics, either.

Audiopoint:

"Kait says - “That’s because the entire house is shaking due to the microseismic activity, traffic, etc. This is precisely why audiophiles found out a long time ago that all efforts to build a rigid, solid foundation for their gear are for naught compared to isolating the gear.”

to which audiopoint resoonded,

"We cannot hear or feel our houses shaking therefore have no idea as to the validity of microseismic activity wreaking havoc on our sound systems. Star Sound Platforms are rigid and so are the majority of racking designs sold in this Industry. The minority involves spring isolation. You were one of a couple manufacturing racks built on spring concepts so if your rack was that good, where is it now?"

Simply because you’re unable to feel or hear something doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t degrade the sound. Take RFI/EMI for example. Besides I doubt you can feel or hear the induced vibration your company addresses, you know capacitors, electron tubes, transformers, a wobbly spinning CD. In addition microseismic activity varies from location to location. In locations where microseismic activity is more pronounced you actually CAN feel the vibrations, in Las Vegas for example.

FYI - I never made racks. I have been making vibration isolation devices for more than 20 years. The majority of isolation devices actually do use springs, in one form or another. Ironic, huh? 

theaudiotweak
1,400 posts
11-05-2016 6:10pm
Geoff everything touches the Earth and is along for the ride. I know of only one operational device that doesn’t and only Bill Gates can pay the cost of entry. Tom

But the ride is a lot bumpier without isolation. You can ignore isolation and you will still have an incomplete solution. Even your methods for getting energy out of the system are incomplete. The cost of isolation is low once the light bulb comes on in your head. As I've said many effective iso devices for audiophiles have been around for more than twenty years, including many from yours truly.

Tom, just curious, what exactly happened to you? I mean to make you so dense. Maybe you're afraid of losing your senior shill status.

You should have given up 20 years ago. Tom

theaudiotweak
1,399 posts
11-05-2016 6:10pm
Geoff everything touches the Earth and is along for the ride. I know of only one operational device that doesn’t and only Bill Gates can pay the cost of entry. Tom

Geez, I give up. Carry on. Smoke if ya got em. None are so blind as those who will not see.

Geoff everything touches the Earth and is along for the ride. I know of only one operational device that doesn't and only Bill Gates can pay the cost of entry. Tom 

Audiopoint wrote,

"The Great Kait cannot come up with any evidence whatsoever that inaudible seismic activity affects sound reproduction “in real time”. It takes equipment costing millions of dollars to “SHOW” seismic frequencies that are well below that of human hearing."

Uh, I’m pretty sure you cannot hear capacitors vibrate or the vibration produced on the electronics by acoustic waves in the room. Besides, seismic vibrations go up into frequencies that ARE audible. Not only that but ordinary vibrations, the ones you guys concern yourselves with are also inaudible and cannot be felt. Things like election tubes, transformed, capacitors, you cannot feel them vibrate. Hel-loo! So your argument is just plain silly on many levels. The very low frequency vibrations and the higher frequency ones produce distortions in wires, cables, printed circuit boards,,etc. THAT ARE AUDIBLE. Don’t be such a silly goose.

audiopoint also wrote,

"Ligo is an amazing system but does not relate to audio reproduction as the Audio and Recording Sciences relate to human hearing - we will provide a more detailed explanation forthcoming."

I’m on the edge of my seat. You guys keep saying that. Is this going to be someone who understands vibration isolation?

then Audiopoint wrote,

"I am a sound engineer - if I cannot hear it, we cannot improve or relate to it, so we put our money and research into improving what we can hear and what we do know."

I can certainly appreciate that you guys cannot relate to it. Most audiophiles can easily relate to it. I have no idea what your problem is. And from what I can tell you guys have not grasped a single thing I’ve said. Oh, well, C’est la vie.

cheerios

audiopoint
47 posts
11-04-2016 7:58pm
Kait says - “That’s because the entire house is shaking due to the microseismic activity, traffic, etc. This is precisely why audiophiles found out a long time ago that all efforts to build a rigid, solid foundation for their gear are for naught compared to isolating the gear.”

To which Audiopoint replied,

"We cannot hear or feel our houses shaking therefore have no idea as to the validity of microseismic activity wreaking havoc on our sound systems."

Oh, brother! I never said said you could hear or feel it. You cannot hear or feel RFI/ EMI either. Just because you cannot hear of feel low frequency vibration isn’t really evidence of anything. Just because you have no idea as to the validity of microseismic activity (effects) is not really of importance to me.

Then Audiopoint wrote,

"Star Sound Platforms are rigid and so are the majority of racking designs sold in this Industry. The minority involves spring isolation. You were one of a couple manufacturing racks built on spring concepts so if your rack was that good, where is it now?"

Oh, brother! I never designed or sold racks. Are you confused? I have explained many times why solid platforms and racks can only be partial solutions. Have you been asleep? As I’ve said almost all seismic isolation devices are based on springs, specifically on the mass on spring concept. A concept, by the way, that apparently has been lost on you.

then Audiopoint wrote,

"I have never encountered springs in a recording facility, never encountered springs in musical instruments, never noticed them in sound rooms or studios and never saw them on lathe foundations when cutting masters for vinyl. The only time I experienced springs in audio and/or racking was from two or three companies (copycats included) involved in developing high end audio vibration management systems and I am not stating anything here related to performance so do not go off the deep end again. We are just wondering where all the Industry support has gone."

I never made racks. I cannot explain why more folks don’t use isolation although - as I’ve already pointed out - a great many already do. You haven’t forgotten already hVe you? 10,000 Vibraplnes. Just because you never encounter vibration isolation products actually doesn’t concern me, or surprise me.

then Audiopoint wrote,

"Kait states - “I can’t wait to see what you little monkeys will say next.”
Help me Geoff Kait, my house is shaking from “inaudible seismic activity” and disrupting the sound and quality of my hi-fi system and robbing me of musical quality...

NAH, JUST JOKING - Although my house does shake from sound pressure level with a percussion and rhythm section that sounds like a concert environment and I am experiencing the joy of listening to music. No Walkabout and headphones here - a real sound room, a live sounding system and larger than life stage with lots of attack, sustain and decay combined with lots of space and airiness in between."

Can you try to hold down the snarky comments and stick to the discussion? By the way, where is the seismologist who was supposed to save your bacon from the fire? You are not doing your company any favors by all of your ignorant and snarky carrying on. You actually have not addressed seismic vibration at all.

then Audiopoint wrote,

"There is something about a live concert, recording studio or listening to music in my home that makes me feel good. I need to feel the quiet of the room so one can hear the finger noise on the strings and neck during a cello solo. I require lots of air, depth of feel, attack, sustain and decays - you know that live experience of air moving along with the all important ‘physical body feel’ of emotion and participation. I would rather feel a kick drum in my chest compared to just hearing one in my ears but that is how I enjoy music and that is how we engineer our products to perform at Star Sound. To me, feeling the emotion is as important as hearing every note - they are one in the same."

Oh, brother! Can you please hold down the self serving blather?

Then Audiopoint wrote,

"Kait asks - “I realize I’ve probably asked you this question before but now that you’ve taken case of the vibrations produced by motors, transformers, etc. In the component and vibrations that might wind up there due to acoustic forces how did you address the seismic vibrations? It appears you’re ignoring them. Am I missing something?”

To which Audiopoint replied,

"We have always ignored them."

That’s pretty much what I surmised based on your previous comments and Tom’s.

Then Audiopoint wrote,

"The Great Kait cannot come up with any evidence whatsoever that inaudible seismic activity affects sound reproduction “in real time”. It takes equipment costing millions of dollars to “SHOW” seismic frequencies that are well below that of human hearing."

Oh, brother! Actually I have provided evidence, But you have consistently ignored it. Where’s that seismologist?

The final comment of Audiopoint I will address is,

"We never considered Earth’s crust motion or seismic forces to be part of our technology, research or approach to product development as we are focused on improving the ’audible’ musical instrument and recording/playback sciences."

Exactly!! That’s precisely why I have been saying yours is only a partial solution. 

cheers

Kait says - “That’s because the entire house is shaking due to the microseismic activity, traffic, etc. This is precisely why audiophiles found out a long time ago that all efforts to build a rigid, solid foundation for their gear are for naught compared to isolating the gear.”

We cannot hear or feel our houses shaking therefore have no idea as to the validity of microseismic activity wreaking havoc on our sound systems. Star Sound Platforms are rigid and so are the majority of racking designs sold in this Industry. The minority involves spring isolation. You were one of a couple manufacturing racks built on spring concepts so if your rack was that good, where is it now?

I have never encountered springs in a recording facility, never encountered springs in musical instruments, never noticed them in sound rooms or studios and never saw them on lathe foundations when cutting masters for vinyl. The only time I experienced springs in audio and/or racking was from two or three companies (copycats included) involved in developing high end audio vibration management systems and I am not stating anything here related to performance so do not go off the deep end again. We are just wondering where all the Industry support has gone.

Kait states - “I can't wait to see what you little monkeys will say next.”

Help me Geoff Kait, my house is shaking from “inaudible seismic activity” and disrupting the sound and quality of my hi-fi system and robbing me of musical quality...

NAH, JUST JOKING - Although my house does shake from sound pressure level with a percussion and rhythm section that sounds like a concert environment and I am experiencing the joy of listening to music. No Walkabout and headphones here - a real sound room, a live sounding system and larger than life stage with lots of attack, sustain and decay combined with lots of space and airiness in between.

There is something about a live concert, recording studio or listening to music in my home that makes me feel good. I need to feel the quiet of the room so one can hear the finger noise on the strings and neck during a cello solo. I require lots of air, depth of feel, attack, sustain and decays - you know that live experience of air moving along with the all important ‘physical body feel’ of emotion and participation. I would rather feel a kick drum in my chest compared to just hearing one in my ears but that is how I enjoy music and that is how we engineer our products to perform at Star Sound. To me, feeling the emotion is as important as hearing every note - they are one in the same.

Kait asks - “I realize I’ve probably asked you this question before but now that you’ve taken case of the vibrations produced by motors, transformers, etc. In the component and vibrations that might wind up there due to acoustic forces how did you address the seismic vibrations? It appears you’re ignoring them. Am I missing something?”

We have always ignored them.

The Great Kait cannot come up with any evidence whatsoever that inaudible seismic activity affects sound reproduction “in real time”. It takes equipment costing millions of dollars to “SHOW” seismic frequencies that are well below that of human hearing.

Ligo is an amazing system but does not relate to audio reproduction as the Audio and Recording Sciences relate to human hearing - we will provide a more detailed explanation forthcoming.

https://www.ligo.caltech.edu/page/vibration-isolation?highlight=passive%20dampingf

I am a sound engineer - if I cannot hear it, we cannot improve or relate to it, so we put our money and research into improving what we can hear and what we do know.

Kate says - “To summarize my answer, the isolation is provided by the ability to move. If the component is resting on a stable solid base (no isolation) it will still move along with the floor and the shaking all over motion the house is forced into by seismic forces, including Earth crust motion (microseisms).”

When a speaker is placed on springs, everything moves about and in situations depending on volume and room pressure level, speakers can also move counter to Earth’s rotation. Everything moves - the chassis, drivers, diaphragms and voice coils move freely - left to right and front to back.

• Since everything is moving around how does one relate to or measure for driver time alignment?
  

• If a speaker fires from different angles and/or locations while moving, does that affect driver dispersion patterns?
  

• How do the internal moving parts of a loudspeaker function when subjected to constant flexing?
  

• Speaker testing is usually done from a fixed foundation and position - not a moving plane, so how would spring movement affect the testing in anechoic or other studio environments?
  

Analogy:  Speakers fire frequencies through air much the same as weapons fire projectiles through air. I would rather fire a weapon from a solid fixed foundation compared to firing it from a moving spring foundation - greater accuracy - the same with speakers (IMO).

In closing Mr. Kait:

We have listened to your springs in action and on many surfaces including stones, woods, steel acrylics, etc. There are too many variables involved to establish a geometry that works for a broad coverage of products unless we took individual chassis and developed an optimized spring sizing for each and every product size and weight for filtering and performance.

Star Sound Platforms are not restricted by weight capacities and are NOT designated “Product Specific”. The smallest Platform will support over one ton of mass.The only difference between the various offerings is shelf sizing, weight in materials, geometries and price. The higher the price the more material is used which results in higher ‘audible’ performance and component operational efficiency. In every product category a single technology is applied.

The same single shelf model number of any Star Sound Platforms increases performance when placed underneath “any” loudspeaker system, electronic components, turntables, power distribution products, guitar or keyboard amplifiers, recording or concert reinforcement mixers, signal compressors, gates and expanders, digital reverbs, microphone stands, AC power transformers, DC power supplies, FM radio output transformers, microwaves, air conditioning compressors, and the list continues to grow.

We never considered Earth’s crust motion or seismic forces to be part of our technology, research or approach to product development as we are focused on improving the 'audible' musical instrument and recording/playback sciences. It would appear in order to provide you any concept of understanding related to our technical approach or why our products perform direct coupled to Earth without the negative effects from inaudible seismic interference would have to result in a product audition. Up for a listen?

Keep to your seismic storyboarding as it delivers a simplistic concept, provides a level of believability and will attract an audience so you can retail your lengthy list of all the different little things you sell. I have no doubt you will continue to stay on the seismic issues telling companies like ours that we are missing the boat and should go back to school only because Ligo and Kait says so.

We do not listen to Ligo. We do not hear electron microscopes. We do not listen in anechoic environments and we certainly do not hear our houses shaking from seismic whatevers, so what exactly are we missing?

You call us little monkeys. Obviously you did not search out the people behind our company or could possibly understand in human terms how to relate with professionals. In our opinion you are an amateurish innovator, tasteless oppressor and a peckerwood (named after one of your products of course). How many bags of rocks have you sold this week?

Robert - Star Sound

j_stereo I think you covered it well.

Do I really need the footers on the DAC? Probably not. But got them so I use them.  They definitely provide a few extra inches of physical separation between teh DAC and the pre-amp it normally sets on.   Can’t hurt.

I know setting on piece of gear on another to be a no no in general as well  in terms of providing other kinds of isolation, and I believe in that concept completely but that's another story.

I am certainly no expert on the subject, but I would believe tube gear benefits from isolation because tubes can become microphonic (some tubes more than others). Also analog and rotating equipment such as turntables and cd players benefit from isolation. Also speakers benefit from isolation to prevent the vibration from the cabinets from being transmitted to the floor. Beyond that, I would be skeptical of the effectiveness of isolation on pure solid state devices such as solid state amps and preamps. Some say they can hear the difference, but they obviously have better ears than I do.

Cleeds,

Definite there are 2 schools of thought. Like opposing magnetic fields. One though has a unified direction. Tom

What’s unfortunate about this thread is that although some of us might have been able to learn a thing or two here, it’s plagued with insults and derision, as evidenced by the number of posts deleted by the moderators. It surely makes me reluctant to chime in ... even with a simple question. This will likely make me the target of the next insult. <sigh>

Lucky for you Radio Shack went under recently. So more market share for you now maybe.

GEoof stop insulting me.   You can insult my footers that's OK.  Your envy is showing!

 
mapman
13,895 posts
11-04-2016 12:05pm
They only move a little bit, enough to damp teh most common vibrations of lesser magnitude, the ones you would never feel or know about otherwise. The grooves the inner part rotate in are wideth enough to provide some stability. So you get the best of both worlds, attentuation and stability all in a nice simple package. I never realized how great those things really are. Almost got rid of them a number of years back being only from Radio Shack and all.

Mapman'

Question: are you stupid or pretending to be stupid? 

They only move a little bit, enough to damp the most common vibrations of lesser magnitude, the ones you would never feel or know about otherwise. The grooves the inner part rotate in are wide enough to provide some stability. So you get the best of both worlds, attenuation and stability all in a nice simple package. I never realized how great those things really are. Almost got rid of them a number of years back being only from Radio Shack and all.

Geoff, don't be such a cynic.   You sound jealous!  Calm down.

Because they move they will generate polarities of shear one of which is interference.  Tom

mapman
13,893 posts
11-04-2016 11:49am
You got it. The spring loaded inner portion of my footers are the part that rotates. It provides the ability to level and provides stability compared to a spring alone. I suspect this would help against those nasty p waves in particular should they ever beckon to keep the gear from rocking like a horse. You rotate the inner portion to the height desired. These things work like a charm and would cost a fortune today. Who knew Radio Shack had it in them?

Getting back to reality for a second, the spring rate of the springs in those silly Radio Shack footers aren’t low enough to you know do anything. They are too stiff. In order to compete with the real iso devices the springs need to be quite springy, you know, to be able to get the resonant frequency down to an audiophile level. Let’s say 3 or 4 Hz shall we? Nevertheless I have a feeling Radio Shack sold a bunch. We all know about bliss and what constitutes bliss. Lol

You got it. The spring loaded inner portion of my footers are the part that rotates. It provides the ability to level and provides stability compared to a spring alone.   I suspect this would help against those nasty p waves in particular should they ever beckon to keep the gear from rocking like a horse.   You rotate the inner portion to the height desired. These things work like a charm and would cost a fortune today. Who knew Radio Shack had it in them?

dlcockrum
431 posts
11-04-2016 11:33am
Hi Geoff,

It seems that many manufacturers of spring-type footers have a range of loads for each offering. I understand that matching the spring to the exact load is optimal, but is there not a range for each spring that would deliver significant gains?

I also specify a range of loads. It wouldn’t make sense otherwise. Since the resonant frequency is a square root function of load and spring rate the iso device is not terribly sensitive to load for a given spring rate; of course one can add mass to obtain the desired load in the case a component is a little lightweight for a given set of springs, no? For example, if one were to use a maple board the mass of the maple board would be added to the mass of the component to get the total load. I have some customers with VERY heavy turntables, you know, big VPIs, Verdiers and Ravens, and monster amps circa with VERY HEAVY marble slabs on my springs for the isolation. In such a case the mass of the large marble slab is quite significant when coming up with the number of springs required. Which reminds me: the number of springs is another variable, spring rate is not the only variable. There are many ways to skin a cat.

theaudiotweak
1,396 posts
11-04-2016 11:07am
Geoff you are offensive. You called me a monkey and dense.

As I stated a spring is never in a static state even when loaded. Your example of saying a spring is self leveling proves they can never reach the level of stasis. Springs will rotate when in motion as they have poor rotational rigidity. Tom

Sorry, Tom, but you just don’t get it. I never said there was no motion. In fact I said there definitely was motion with springs. My company name Machina Dynamica literally means moving machines. Please do yourselves a big favor and Google mass-on-spring isolation. That will save us both a lot of pain. Especially you. And I hate to point this out but in fact springs have very good rotational resistance. Especially when there is more than one spring. And when the springs are very stiff...like my springs. Don’t be a donkey or a monkey.

Cheers and have a nice day

Geoff you are offensive. You called me a monkey and dense.

As I stated a spring is never in a static state even when loaded. Your example of saying a spring is self leveling proves they can never reach the level of stasis. Springs will rotate when in motion as they have poor rotational rigidity. Tom

dlcockrum
429 posts
11-04-2016 8:18am
Hi Geoff,

"Understood, but wouldn’t a few different models with differing spring rates be sufficient to handle the majority of gear?"

Was it yesterday I said spring rate had to be matched to the load? I have different springs for different loads, from 1 lb to 300 lb. 

"Would the rotational feature within the base be beneficial?"

Probably not.

"The height adjustment would simply function to level the gear?"

Springs are self leveling. If you can't move the springs manually move the component. It's not rocket science.

theaudiotweak
1,395 posts
11-04-2016 9:58am
Stasis: a period or state of inactivity or equilibrium.
Something a spring can never achieve. Tom. Star Sound

tom, no offense intended and I hate to judge before all the facts are in but apparently you have not grasped the whole mass on spring concept. The idea of mass on spring isolation is to *stop* the component from vibrating. Hel-loo! I honestly cannot tell if you're being deliberately dense or if that's just natural. No offense intended.

have a nice day

Stasis:  a period or state of inactivity or equilibrium.
Something a spring can never achieve. Tom. Star Sound

dlcockrum
428 posts
11-03-2016 9:54pm
"spring loaded rotating adjustable feet"

Sounds like a great product development idea...

It should probably be mentioned the only thing that's adjustable is the height since springs are linear devices. So you can't change a spring's spring rate by changing it's height. Only from the mind of Radio Shack.

Theaudiotweak wrote,

"Geoff

The response is coming soon and what you have exercised for 20 years or more has nothing to do with how LIGO operates as it does not relate to your audio products.. In your instance, it is not a single case of suspended animation..Tom"

Gosh, Tom, does this mean the mysterious seismologist is going to jump into the fray? Or has she departed for uh, greener pastures? Or is it just a case of discretion being the better part of valor?when you wrote, "what you have exercised for 20 years or more..." did you mean to say, "what you have exorcized for 20 years or more..."? Just curious.

have a nice day

Mapman wrote,

"Ever try try just holding it? The body would provide a lot of damping of both s and p waves."

Gosh, that must be from the engineer’s side of your head.

Mapman also wrote,

"I have spring loaded rotating adjustable feet under my dac. They were rather pricey in their day especially for Radio Shack. I had them though and use them and they work great as best I can tell. My digital sounds awesome if I might be so bold to say."

That sounds about right. I've heard that the best milk comes from contented cows.

have a nice day

Very cool.  

Ever try try just holding it?  The body would provide a lot of damping of both s and p waves.  

I have spring loaded rotating adjustable feet under my dac.  They were rather pricey in their day especially for Radio Shack.  I had them though and use them and they work great as best I can tell.  My digital sounds awesome if I might be so bold to say. 

Mapman asked what I use in my setup.

Stage 1 - The Bio Mikro G utilizes bamboo, viscoelastic material and pure glass microspheres to mimic a woodpecker head’s bone, elastic layer and spongy layer, respectively, surrounding the bird’s brain. Without such evolutionary features, the woodpecker would surely damage his brain and or die.

Stage 2 - Diamond harness NASA grade ceramic cones underneath the Bio Mikro G.

Stage 3 - Cryo’d super low spring rate steel springs between the Bio Mikro g and the Sony Walkman.

Stage 4 - Constrained layer damping of my own design, VibraBlock

Stage 5 - Mpingo disc and Diamond Hardness cones placed on top of the top plate of the Bio Mikro G for further quieting of the top plate.

this Sony Walkman system minimizes all the things that would ordinarily vibrate in a larger system. It also minimizes or eliminates cabling, fuses, transformers, power cords, house AC, AC ground. You know, things that are inherently problematic. Not to mention this system obviously avoids all room issues. I view that as a good thing. Lol

GK so how do you address that with your system? And do you hear a difference before and after?

My stuff sounds great, better than ever as a result of the things I have done to isolate my gear from various vibrations at hand.   Detail, soundstage, imaging, articulate bass, you name it.  All better than ever for me.

But one can always do better I am sure.