DENAFRIPS DAC ---- Owner Impressions, Feedback, General Discussion, Questions and more....

Dave McNair / Part-Time Audiophile review of the Pontus II DAC:

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/02/12/denafrips-pontus-ii-dac-review/

Hi Alvin et al,

I just ordered the Ares II ( Order No. 13312). Something I read on this thread made me wonder whether the unit comes with its own power cord, or whether I need to supply my own.

thanks,
steve hecht

With their top model you need to supply your own, I assume the Ares will be the same
I'm answering because they are on holiday and it might take a while

Hey guys,

Ares II and Iris come with a power cord. The rest of the models aren't. 

Cheers,
Alvin @ https://www.vinshineaudio.com/

Happy New Year Alvin
Surprised to see you online
Cheers

Thanks for the new year wishes!

One of the perks of being a business owner is .... there is no such thing as time off.
:)

Danasam, I have a Pontus. Did you ever consider buying an Iris or Gaia to use with it or do you think it would not be needed? I just wondered because you would be able to use the i2s connections. Thank you.

I live in Toronto Canada. 
Here is my Journey to the Terminator II. .
I boght the Denaflips Ares II first. Wow ! sounded very good. I sold it 3 months later and bought the Venus II .. wow ! Wow ! It sounded better :) around 5 months later i sold it and bought the Terminator II ...and I just love it ...

The Terminator II is an amazing DAC.. it sounds extremely linear. I hear somethings that I had never heard before especially from the low frequency. .. the soundstage is huge and holographic with very good image and details. .even when I listen at very low volumn at late night, I can still hear everything I just mentioned above. ..
I bought my Terminator II from Singapore, from vinshine Audio, and Alvin is the distributor. He is a very honest, straightforward  and very fast in response to any of my questions .
Happy listening !!!
Henry

Hey guys,

The latest licensed Thesycon Driver (For Windows PC) v5.12.0 is available to download here: link.

https://www.denafrips.com/support
 
TUSBAudio - Thesycon USB Audio 2.0 Class Driver for Windows

Revision History: 
http://www.thesycon.de/usbaudio/TUSBAudio_history.txt

I ordered the Pontus II a few days ago.  I really like my current DAC, the Border Patrol SEi.  I just got curious after years with the BP.  I'm trying not to bring any bias to my evaluation of the Pontus but I'll be surprised if I prefer it to my BP.  The BP has a warm, organic quality that I really like. Plus, Gary Dews of BP provides great customer support.  I hesitated to make the purchase once I realized I couldn't return it.  If it doesn't work out I'm hoping I'll be able to sell it.  But I'll certainly give it a fair chance.

the pontus will have a brighter more revealing presentation than the border patrol as well as tauter deeper bass... still nice dimensionality and body in the mids and bass but the pontus will provide somewhat more up-front detail, sharper cleaner edges to transients and more ’air’ in the treble region

Thanks.  “Brighter”?  Uh-oh.

There are very few DACs warmer/softer/whatever you want to call it than the Border Patrol.  So when you bring in another brand, it just depends on how far you want to go in the other direction.

Agreed.  And just because the Pontus’ presentation may be less warm than that of the Border Patrol doesn’t necessarily mean I won’t like it.  I wouldn’t have purchased it if I thought that were true. The only way to know is to listen, and that’s what I’ll do.  It’s just that when I see the word “bright”, especially where digital playback is concerned I get a little worried.

Any idea why the switch from Jriver to Aurdirvana?

I'm really put off by the subscription plans from Aurdirvana. Would much prefer the one time payment from Jriver.

just so folks don’t misunderstand my earlier post, the denafrips pontus voicing is quite middle of the road in terms of treble energy, it is quite balanced top to bottom overall

as @twoleftears said, the bp unit is one of the most rolled off sounding dacs out there, and in my system it did this to the detriment of conveying inner detail and air (something the pontus does exceptionally well)

i will do this now, quickly, from memory - i will basically put the various standalone dacs i have tried over the past 18-24 months into three tiers of brightness/forwardness of treble - this is just for this single dimension only, one of several sonic criteria for choosing a dac to work well in a good, highly resolving system

there are subtle variations in tonal balance within each group, but for sake of simplicity i force them all into the 3 tiers 

a - most energetic treble/fast and forward

chord qutest 2qute hugo tt2
rme adi 2
topping d90
schiit yggy
musical fidelity trivista
ps audio digital link (cullen)
mytek brooklyn

b - relatively balanced, medium treble energy

denafrips pontus, ares, venus, term (nos)
ayre codex
jolida black ice tube dac
metrum pavane jade amethyst
schiit gumby
mhdt various, modded
sonnet morpheus
ava hybrid fet tube
w4s various
chord mojo

c - most rolled off/smooth understated treble

border patrol
audio mirror tubador
mhdt various, unmodded
musical paradise
neko d100-2
psa direct stream (pre sunlight firmware)
metrum octave

hope this helps some readers here trying to buy the right dac for them (am sure i may have left out a few still)

Your categorization of the Qutest, Yggy and Pontus aligns with my experience. I would say that the Ares has a bit more harshness than the Pontus.

I'm pretty sensitive to digital glare and have avoided listening to much digital audio for the last 32 years for that reason. But the Pontus II doesn't seem to induce much if any listening fatigue for me. Measures that I've taken to reduce digital harshness include:

1. Use of an Ethernet cable via an Ethernet access point created by a TP-Link RE230 Wi-Fi extender
2. Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable
3. Pro-ject streamer with the Wi-Fi receiver turned off
4. Audioquest Jitterbug noise filter
5. Stordiau Lush USB cable

With all of those in place, I can listen to the Pontus II for hours with no sign of listening fatigue.

jjss49 

Thank you for all that incredibly useful info.  I am going to upgrade my DAC and this helps dispel alot of confusion and uncertainty.  

Dick Olsher / The Absolute Sound review of the Denafrips Terminator DAC:

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/denafrips-terminator-dac

Denafrips Terminator II review by The Computer Audiophile / Audiophile Style:

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/denafrips-terminator-ii-review-and-comparison-r1036/

Denafrips Terminator Plus review by Christiaan Punter / HFA / HiFi-Advice:

"This DAC is simply without flaws. It sets the standard not only at its retail price but it’s one of the finest DACs that I have heard irrespective of the cost. Whether or not you will like its super-transparent and ultra-precise rendering of the music is a personal matter but I will say that it’s rare for an audio component with such extreme levels of precision to remain refined and nuanced while also being musically appealing and emotionally engaging. Direct competitors in order of ascending retail prices are the Mola Mola Tambaqui, the Aqua Formula xHD, and the CH Precision C1. All three offer different facilities and provide different tonal- and spatial presentations. But these differences are not nearly as large as one might suspect based on the cost. Most impressively, none of the other DACs manage greater levels of transparency, detail retrieval, or overall precision."

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/spdif-dac-reviews/denafrips-terminator-plus/

FYI, Per Vinshine Audio:

"Thesycon v5.27.0 USB driver is available now. What's new?

http://www.thesycon.de/usbaudio/TUSBAudio_history.txt

 

Please note that the v5.20.0 (and above) supports Windows 10 onwards. Operating systems such as Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 are not longer supported due to Microsoft discontinued vendor signing.

The latest licensed Thesycon Driver (For Windows PC) v5.27.0 is available to download here."

https://www.denafrips.com/support

Review | Denafrips Terminator Plus DAC and Gaia D to D Converter

By: gmgraves / Audiophile Style

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/review-denafrips-terminator-plus-dac-and-gaia-d-to-d-converte...

"Overall the T+ is a world class DAC. Alone, it produces a liveness and a palpable realism that just a few short years ago would have seemed impossible at any price. I don’t really know how to describe the refinement of that amazing performance made possible by the addition of the Gaia D-to-D. But all I can say is that whatever magic the T+ is bringing to the table with it’s incredible performance, the Gaia takes that magic and turns it into sorcery!"

Is the I2S of the Pontus II compatible with the I2S of the Project CD Box RS2 T?

Sumiko Support just said they are not compatible.

@jackiejr   I'd check with Alvin at Vinshine to be absolutely sure. @alvin1118   

I remember my Terminator's I2S input being configurable. I do not know if the Pontus II is or is not; AND whether the configuration can be setup to be compatible with your Project CDT.

Perhaps Pontus II owners will also post on this. 

All the best. - David.

Is the I2S of the Pontus II compatible with the I2S of the Project CD Box RS2 T?

DENAFRIPS i2s is not compatible with the Project CD Box RS2 T.

According to Project tech support, i2s (over HDMI) requires 16.9344mhz external clock input @ Pin11/12. 

FYI for those considering Denafrips products...From Vinshine Audio:

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: ANNOUNCEMENT OF PRICE INCREASE

Date: 1st December, 2021 "Greetings from all of us at Vinshine Audio (Singapore)! Due to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and global economy outlook, the cost such as raw materials, electronics, components, and shipping has increased.  Please be rest assured that we did everything we could to avoid raising the prices. However, the situation has continued, there is no sign of slowing down. Unfortunately, we will have no choice but to adjust our pricing to reflect the increased cost. It is unprecedented. The new pricing will take effect on 13th December 2021, 00:00hr Singapore Time.  Any order placed before 13th December 2021, 00:00hr, will be honoured at the lower prices. We highly encourage you to place an order today. The increase helps us ensure our commitment to providing the very best products and services for our customers. As always, we appreciate your business and continued support."

 

 

price increases fairly modest - about $100 USD per piece

price increases fairly modest - about $100 USD per piece

 

Exactly. When you consider the performance you get from their products, it's still far and away a bargain.

Has anyone experienced a tumultuous break-in process? 

 

I purchased a Denafrips Terminator II last month. I plugged it in and the first time listening to it I was very encouraged by the sound. 

 

What I should have done is hooked everything up right and let music play for 7-10 days. Instead I was lazy and just used it intermittently for 10 hours or so over a period of a few weeks. 

 

This weekend the sound wasn't great. The midrange seemed overly warm/veiled and the highs were all over the place. 

 

I finally hooked up everything as it should be and have been running it 24/7 since Sunday. 

 

Anyone else notice changes during the first 100 hours?   

If you're concerned about price increases, check out some of Chord's price increases. Looks like their "Cutest" dac went from $1698 to $1945. That's a fairly large increase for a design That's several years old now.

@kingdeezie 

i received my Pontus II last week and listened over the long weekend. Sounded excellent out of the gate. I have had it running 24/7 since Sunday night so it should have a good amount of hours on it now. I plan to listen again tonight and hopefully things are even better now.

I’m stuck in the stone age when it comes to computer tech stuff. I’m looking for a solution other than DIY for updating the firmware on my Terminator. Think a service like geek squad would be capable?

@kingdeezie  If you search for Terminator 'burn in' or 'break in' you'll likely find feedback that addresses your question (including within this thread).

@jl1ny  Can you find a friend who can help you? The videos and instructions are fairly straightforward. 

 

 

 

@david_ten 

I do have pal with a laptop who could assist but It’s my understanding that if you eff-up the upgrade, you’ll brick the unit. Hence my apprehension about winging it.

@jl1ny I understand. I'm guessing, but is this regarding downloading and installing the Thesycon USB Driver?  If so, instructions are on the 'Get Support' FAQ page, linked below.

Reach out to Vinshine Audio if you need them to walk you through it.

FAQ Support for Downloads etc.

Finally, it's possible to update the firmware via a macOS. One of the most wanted features!

USB MCU v3.12 is the latest and greatest firmware. If you use USB input, I highly recommend to update the firmware. 

https://www.denafrips.com/usb-mcu-firmware-update-mac

 

Please reach out to us if you need help.

 

E: support@vinshineaudio.com 

 

Best,

Alvin Chee 

www.vinshineaudio.com 

Thanks @alvin1118 

For those of us with a fear of Terminal, a short youtube video demonstrating might be a good idea. Just a thought...Cheers,

Spencer

As a follow-up to my previous post, the Terminator II does indeed improve dramatically during break-in.

After having left it playing for a week, the sound is completely different in my system for the better!  

@abd1  Best not to spam this thread with copy pasta when you have your own thread.  

my apologies, post deleted.

 

Can anyone weigh in on the differences between the original Terminator and the Venus II? 

@abd1 I just came across your OP thread that provides much more detail. Feel free to PM me to continue the discussion off thread. I've used the strikethrough function, for my earlier post.

I cannot help you with your question since I did not compare the two models.

My feedback, therefore, is general.

I’ve learned it is far better to stretch one’s budget and get what will serve you over the longer term.

If I was in your position, I’d choose the original Terminator with the latest board OR wait for a used Terminator II listing.

All the best in your choice, whatever that ends up being.

Hey @alvin1118 ! 

Thanks for providing such clear instructions. My Pontus II firmware update via Mac was easy-peasy!

Finally, it's possible to update the firmware via a macOS. One of the most wanted features!

USB MCU v3.12 is the latest and greatest firmware. If you use USB input, I highly recommend to update the firmware. 

https://www.denafrips.com/usb-mcu-firmware-update-mac

Cheers,

Spencer

Thanks @sbank ! Enjoy the new sound :)

I just bought a used Terminator 2 from another longtime audiogoner.  Once I set it up (scheduled delivery 12/28) I will compare it to my all-time favorite DAC, Luxman DA-06, that has stood the test of time and sound quality against many a DACs at various price points. I really have high hopes for the Terminator. Will share my impressions in a week or two.

I just spent the past few days listening to a Terminator v1 DAC w/upgraded DSP and WIMA caps. I also have an SW1X Level 3 Special NOS tube DAC. I stream from an Auralic Aries G1. I send the signal via AES/EBU to the terminator and coax to the SW1X. I level match the volume on the relative inputs on my Audio-GD HE1 XLR preamp. Then I can a/b toggle between dacs on the same tracks in real time. 
 

I am very impressed with the Terminator dac. It is so close to the SW1X that sometimes I couldn’t tell a difference. I think overall the SW1X is slightly more fleshed out in the micro dynamics. Voices are just a hair more real sounding. Bass just a breath more texture. But it is so close. The Terminator hits slightly harder and goes deeper in the bass. The Terminator also gets the tiniest advantage in soundstage. Imaging is basically a draw. If I had to keep one dac it would likely be the terminator. The reason for this is it has more inputs, nos and os modes and two filters, just more flexibility. The other reason is the SW1X now sells for about $9000 USD. I got the Terminator for $2800. Amazing value. I could sell the SW1X likely for double what I paid for the Terminator. Love the SW1X so we’ll see what the future brings. 
 

Other DACs I’ve had recently include the Berkeley Alpha Series 1 MQA, Lampizator Atlantic SE+, PS Audio Directstream and Directstream Jr., Exogal Comet (very underrated), and some built in Sabre dacs from some integrated amps I’ve had. The SW1X is the pinnacle for me, but the Terminator is nipping on its heels.